Sign in
Search 68hc12
Subscribe to 68hc12
68hc12 by Keywords
68HC1 | 812A4 | 9S12DP256 | Bootloader | CodeWarrior | D60A | Debugger | DP256 | ECT | EEPROM | EVB | Flash | HC1 | HCS12 | I2C | IAR | ICC1 | Interrupts | LCD | M68KIT912DP256 | MC9S12DP256 | MC9S12DP256B | Metrowerks | Motor | MSCAN | Multilink | PLL | Quadrature | SDI | SPI | Transceiver | XFC
Ads
Discussion Groups
Discussion Groups | 68HC12 | Re: OT: A call to students, hobbyists and other newcomers
Join our technical discussions about Freescale Microcontrollers: M68HC12. (Freescale Semiconductor is a Subsidiary of Motorola).
Re: Re: entry level S12 tools - Author Unknown - Apr 10 6:46:00 2005
Richard,
OK, it is not the panacea but I believe it is a start to broaden the S12 appeal, for the time being I don't plan to push for anything greater than 32K. FYI I am in this for the long term not just next quarter and really do want to make the S08 and S12 much more "mass market". Clearly DIP packages are a big help for low volume manufacturers and students/hobbyists so I think I will turn my attention to this next, however I get the feeling that If I was to push for a DIP S12C32 type of device I would then upset the guys who are selling dip modules ;-)
Best Regards
Jim
www.freegeeks.net
ps if you have time please put any news or updates on the imagecraft products on freegeeks and web links section.
----- Original Message -----
From: Richard
To: 68HC12@68HC... ; 68HC12@68HC...
Sent: Sunday, April 10, 2005 8:52 AM
Subject: Re: [68HC12] Re: entry level S12 tools What can I say? We differ on own opinions. You don't need free 32K CW tools
to broaden the appeals to hobbyists and students, you need chips that are
more student friendly, you need memory paging architecture that is easier
to understand to mortals, you need aggressive company policies to work with
students and hobbyists and not just "yes we will work with distribution
channels.... next quarter!" for years running. It is true that Microchip
and Atmel have a broader mas market appeal, but not because of free 32K
compiler tools.
What you are doing is killing off 3rd party vendor interests. I am sorry to
say that IMHO your effort is misguided.
At 12:36 AM 4/10/2005, jimstuart@jims... wrote:
>Richard,
>
>Thats one point of view, but what I am trying to do is to make S08 and S12
>more accessable to more students and hobbyists using the parts rather than
>PIC and AVRs. What will make for a vibrant 3rd party community will be a
>wide base of users. In the past much of freescales sales have been
>concentated on a limited number of huge customers relative to microchip
>and atmel who have gone for more of a mass market apeal. I hope that the
>efforst at freegeeks to intoduce the tBDMl with the CW special edditions
>will go some way to make it easier for new users to get started with
>freescale mcus which will be a benefit to everyone.
>
>Best Regards
>Jim
>www.freegeeks.net
// richard (This email is for mailing lists. To reach me directly, please
use richard at imagecraft.com)
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Yahoo! Groups Links
a.. To
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
(You need to be a member of 68hc12 -- send a blank email to 68hc12-subscribe@yahoogroups.com )
OK, it is not the panacea but I believe it is a start to broaden the S12 appeal, for the time being I don't plan to push for anything greater than 32K. FYI I am in this for the long term not just next quarter and really do want to make the S08 and S12 much more "mass market". Clearly DIP packages are a big help for low volume manufacturers and students/hobbyists so I think I will turn my attention to this next, however I get the feeling that If I was to push for a DIP S12C32 type of device I would then upset the guys who are selling dip modules ;-)
Best Regards
Jim
www.freegeeks.net
ps if you have time please put any news or updates on the imagecraft products on freegeeks and web links section.
----- Original Message -----
From: Richard
To: 68HC12@68HC... ; 68HC12@68HC...
Sent: Sunday, April 10, 2005 8:52 AM
Subject: Re: [68HC12] Re: entry level S12 tools What can I say? We differ on own opinions. You don't need free 32K CW tools
to broaden the appeals to hobbyists and students, you need chips that are
more student friendly, you need memory paging architecture that is easier
to understand to mortals, you need aggressive company policies to work with
students and hobbyists and not just "yes we will work with distribution
channels.... next quarter!" for years running. It is true that Microchip
and Atmel have a broader mas market appeal, but not because of free 32K
compiler tools.
What you are doing is killing off 3rd party vendor interests. I am sorry to
say that IMHO your effort is misguided.
At 12:36 AM 4/10/2005, jimstuart@jims... wrote:
>Richard,
>
>Thats one point of view, but what I am trying to do is to make S08 and S12
>more accessable to more students and hobbyists using the parts rather than
>PIC and AVRs. What will make for a vibrant 3rd party community will be a
>wide base of users. In the past much of freescales sales have been
>concentated on a limited number of huge customers relative to microchip
>and atmel who have gone for more of a mass market apeal. I hope that the
>efforst at freegeeks to intoduce the tBDMl with the CW special edditions
>will go some way to make it easier for new users to get started with
>freescale mcus which will be a benefit to everyone.
>
>Best Regards
>Jim
>www.freegeeks.net
// richard (This email is for mailing lists. To reach me directly, please
use richard at imagecraft.com)
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Yahoo! Groups Links
a.. To
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
(You need to be a member of 68hc12 -- send a blank email to 68hc12-subscribe@yahoogroups.com )
Re: Re: entry level S12 tools - Oliver Betz - Apr 11 3:00:00 2005
<jimstuart@jims...> wrote:
> OK, it is not the panacea but I believe it is a start to broaden the
> S12 appeal, for the time being I don't plan to push for anything
> greater than 32K. FYI I am in this for the long term not just next
> quarter and really do want to make the S08 and S12 much more "mass
> market".
IMHO not a bad idea. Many people don't even think about using a
Motorola/Freescale microcontroller because they find so many ARM,
AVR, PIC stuff that they don't look further.
> Clearly DIP packages are a big help for low volume
> manufacturers and students/hobbyists so I think I will turn my
Are there any ARM derivatives in DIP?
But there are cheap header boards (for ARM/AVR/PIC...).
I'm afraid, a DIP package wouldn't be profitable, because today even
low volume production (say >50) is cheaper in SMT than hand soldering
TH packages.
> attention to this next, however I get the feeling that If I was to
> push for a DIP S12C32 type of device I would then upset the guys who
> are selling dip modules ;-)
For little money, the modules offer a big advantage for the beginner:
it works immediately. See the many problems with PLL, BDM, Reset...
Oliver
--
Oliver Betz, Muenchen
(You need to be a member of 68hc12 -- send a blank email to 68hc12-subscribe@yahoogroups.com )
> OK, it is not the panacea but I believe it is a start to broaden the
> S12 appeal, for the time being I don't plan to push for anything
> greater than 32K. FYI I am in this for the long term not just next
> quarter and really do want to make the S08 and S12 much more "mass
> market".
IMHO not a bad idea. Many people don't even think about using a
Motorola/Freescale microcontroller because they find so many ARM,
AVR, PIC stuff that they don't look further.
> Clearly DIP packages are a big help for low volume
> manufacturers and students/hobbyists so I think I will turn my
Are there any ARM derivatives in DIP?
But there are cheap header boards (for ARM/AVR/PIC...).
I'm afraid, a DIP package wouldn't be profitable, because today even
low volume production (say >50) is cheaper in SMT than hand soldering
TH packages.
> attention to this next, however I get the feeling that If I was to
> push for a DIP S12C32 type of device I would then upset the guys who
> are selling dip modules ;-)
For little money, the modules offer a big advantage for the beginner:
it works immediately. See the many problems with PLL, BDM, Reset...
Oliver
--
Oliver Betz, Muenchen
(You need to be a member of 68hc12 -- send a blank email to 68hc12-subscribe@yahoogroups.com )
Re: Re: entry level S12 tools - Gary Olmstead - Apr 11 13:19:00 2005
OK, here's one thing that is wrong with Freescale. I'm interested in
ZigBee. I know that Freescale makes a development system, because I saw it
at ESC, and a friend of mine has one. Try to find it on the web site. I
couldn't find anything. I even searched for "ZigBee development systems"
and didn't get anything useful. I got a bunch of stuff about ZigBee
daughter boards, and Coldfire development systems, but nothing that looked
like the system I saw at ESC.
Here's another thing. At ESC, I was told that the ZigBee system is
$1400-1500. Huh? If I want to learn about the system, I have to convince
the boss that it's worth the investment before I know anything about
it. Microchip offers an entry level system for $89. Great! I can buy that
out of my pocket and play with it on my own time. Now when I get something
saleable, whose chip am I going to use? Whose would you use?
While I'm venting, the web site for freegeeks.net has WAAAAY too much stuff
on the home page. It is actually very hard to look at, and not easy to use.
I would like to suggest that the designers of both the Freescale and
freegeeks.net web sites take a close look at Apple Computer's web
site. Apple offers hardware, software, repairs, advertising, educational
activities, iPod and iTunes, an Internet portal (.Mac), developer
information, dealer network guide and a ton of other stuff all from a
handful of buttons on the home page. Their typeface is also a lot easier
to read.
I applaud the move to make Freescale more popular with the broader
market. Let's face it, Motorola probably got what? half its total sales
from a customer list that could be enumerated on one hand. With the loss
of the sales to Motorola cell phones and Palm that won't be true for
Freescale. So, it's broaden the market or go fishing. But changing a C
compiler limit from 12K to 32K is preaching to the choir.
Gary Olmstead
Toucan Technology
Ventura CA
www.toucantechnology.com
(You need to be a member of 68hc12 -- send a blank email to 68hc12-subscribe@yahoogroups.com )
ZigBee. I know that Freescale makes a development system, because I saw it
at ESC, and a friend of mine has one. Try to find it on the web site. I
couldn't find anything. I even searched for "ZigBee development systems"
and didn't get anything useful. I got a bunch of stuff about ZigBee
daughter boards, and Coldfire development systems, but nothing that looked
like the system I saw at ESC.
Here's another thing. At ESC, I was told that the ZigBee system is
$1400-1500. Huh? If I want to learn about the system, I have to convince
the boss that it's worth the investment before I know anything about
it. Microchip offers an entry level system for $89. Great! I can buy that
out of my pocket and play with it on my own time. Now when I get something
saleable, whose chip am I going to use? Whose would you use?
While I'm venting, the web site for freegeeks.net has WAAAAY too much stuff
on the home page. It is actually very hard to look at, and not easy to use.
I would like to suggest that the designers of both the Freescale and
freegeeks.net web sites take a close look at Apple Computer's web
site. Apple offers hardware, software, repairs, advertising, educational
activities, iPod and iTunes, an Internet portal (.Mac), developer
information, dealer network guide and a ton of other stuff all from a
handful of buttons on the home page. Their typeface is also a lot easier
to read.
I applaud the move to make Freescale more popular with the broader
market. Let's face it, Motorola probably got what? half its total sales
from a customer list that could be enumerated on one hand. With the loss
of the sales to Motorola cell phones and Palm that won't be true for
Freescale. So, it's broaden the market or go fishing. But changing a C
compiler limit from 12K to 32K is preaching to the choir.
Gary Olmstead
Toucan Technology
Ventura CA
www.toucantechnology.com
(You need to be a member of 68hc12 -- send a blank email to 68hc12-subscribe@yahoogroups.com )
OT: A call to students, hobbyists and other newcomers - Gary Olmstead - Apr 11 13:23:00 2005
OK, students, it's your turn. What SHOULD Freescale do to make its
products more accessible to engineers who haven't grown up with
Motorola/Freescale products?
Come to think of it, this would make a good topic for a freegeeks.net
monthly contest. Jim, it's yours for the taking.
Gary Olmstead
Toucan Technology
Ventura CA
www.toucantechnology.com
(You need to be a member of 68hc12 -- send a blank email to 68hc12-subscribe@yahoogroups.com )
products more accessible to engineers who haven't grown up with
Motorola/Freescale products?
Come to think of it, this would make a good topic for a freegeeks.net
monthly contest. Jim, it's yours for the taking.
Gary Olmstead
Toucan Technology
Ventura CA
www.toucantechnology.com
(You need to be a member of 68hc12 -- send a blank email to 68hc12-subscribe@yahoogroups.com )
Re: Re: entry level S12 tools - Nigel Johnson - Apr 11 13:51:00 2005
Gary Olmstead wrote:
>OK, here's one thing that is wrong with Freescale. I'm interested in
>ZigBee. I know that Freescale makes a development system, because I saw it
>at ESC, and a friend of mine has one. Try to find it on the web site. I
>couldn't find anything. I even searched for "ZigBee development systems"
>and didn't get anything useful. I got a bunch of stuff about ZigBee
>daughter boards, and Coldfire development systems, but nothing that looked
>like the system I saw at ESC. >
They must have read your complaint and acted immediately! I just went to
their home page, where there is a press release talking about the 13193EVK.
If you drop the EVK, you can find this page on a search of their site:
http://www.freescale.com/webapp/sps/site/prod_summary.jsp?code=13193EVK&parentCode=MC13192
>Here's another thing. At ESC, I was told that the ZigBee system is
>$1400-1500. Huh? If I want to learn about the system, I have to convince
>the boss that it's worth the investment before I know anything about
>it. Microchip offers an entry level system for $89. Great! I can buy that
>out of my pocket and play with it on my own time. Now when I get something
>saleable, whose chip am I going to use? Whose would you use?
The EVK is much more than you need to evaluate the 13192 radio chip. I
have one, but I won it in their competition in January so I didn't have
to pay the $2000 they are asking. (I couldn;t have done it on my student
budget, anyway!). You do need two boards, however, to set up a simple
radio link, and their price is $200 each. The kit comes with 5 boards.
The problem with pricing is that they have tried to do everything and
make it complete. You get five modules (obviously need more than 2 to
see the full potential of Zigbee) plus a 2.4GHz packet sniffer and a P&E
USB Multilink pod. When you add it all up it does seem
reasonably-priced, but you would think their marketing dept would
subsidise it for a select few (more than just us contest winners!)
If a third-party vendor were to get involved, I am sure the EVB modules
coukld be brought down to the $50 mark.
>While I'm venting, the web site for freegeeks.net has WAAAAY too much stuff
>on the home page. It is actually very hard to look at, and not easy to use.
>
>I would like to suggest that the designers of both the Freescale and
>freegeeks.net web sites take a close look at Apple Computer's web
>site. Apple offers hardware, software, repairs, advertising, educational
>activities, iPod and iTunes, an Internet portal (.Mac), developer
>information, dealer network guide and a ton of other stuff all from a
>handful of buttons on the home page. Their typeface is also a lot easier
>to read.
>
>I applaud the move to make Freescale more popular with the broader
>market. Let's face it, Motorola probably got what? half its total sales
>from a customer list that could be enumerated on one hand. With the loss
>of the sales to Motorola cell phones and Palm that won't be true for
>Freescale. So, it's broaden the market or go fishing. But changing a C
>compiler limit from 12K to 32K is preaching to the choir. >
I remember back in the beginning, when the 6800 came out. My friend and
I had projects. He had a PHd and could get big research grants, I
didn't. He spent $10k on an intel development station, and I spent $140
on a Motorola 6800D1 kit. We both got the same results, except I had
more fun!
If Freescale could continue the philosophy of providing cheap dev kits,
or at least supporting companies like Technological Arts to do so, they
willl take advantage of the great potential of having design decisions
enhanced by easily-available hardware that individual engineers can get
without having to go through the formal project study phase needd for
big-budget items.
cheers,
Nigel
>Gary Olmstead
>Toucan Technology
>Ventura CA
>www.toucantechnology.com >
>
>Yahoo! Groups Links
--
Nigel Johnson
MCSE, MIEEE
VE3ID/G4AJQ
http://nigel.homelinux.net
If time travel ever will be possible, it already is. Ask me again yesterday
This e-mail is not and cannot, by its nature, be confidential. En route from me to you, it will pass across the public Internet, easily readable by any number of system administrators along the way. If you have received this message by mistake, it would be ridiculous for me to tell you not to read it or copy to anybody else, because, let’s face it, if it’s a message revealing confidential information or that could embarrass me intensely, that’s precisely what you’ll do. Who wouldn’t?
Likewise, it is superfluous for me to claim copyright in the contents, because I own that anyway, even if you print out a hard copy or disseminate this message all over the known Universe. I don’t know why so many corporate mail servers feel impelled to attach a disclaimer to the bottom of every e-mail message saying otherwise. If you don’t either, why not e-mail your corporate lawyers and system administrators and ask them why they insist on contributing so much to the waste of bandwidth.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
(You need to be a member of 68hc12 -- send a blank email to 68hc12-subscribe@yahoogroups.com )
>OK, here's one thing that is wrong with Freescale. I'm interested in
>ZigBee. I know that Freescale makes a development system, because I saw it
>at ESC, and a friend of mine has one. Try to find it on the web site. I
>couldn't find anything. I even searched for "ZigBee development systems"
>and didn't get anything useful. I got a bunch of stuff about ZigBee
>daughter boards, and Coldfire development systems, but nothing that looked
>like the system I saw at ESC. >
They must have read your complaint and acted immediately! I just went to
their home page, where there is a press release talking about the 13193EVK.
If you drop the EVK, you can find this page on a search of their site:
http://www.freescale.com/webapp/sps/site/prod_summary.jsp?code=13193EVK&parentCode=MC13192
>Here's another thing. At ESC, I was told that the ZigBee system is
>$1400-1500. Huh? If I want to learn about the system, I have to convince
>the boss that it's worth the investment before I know anything about
>it. Microchip offers an entry level system for $89. Great! I can buy that
>out of my pocket and play with it on my own time. Now when I get something
>saleable, whose chip am I going to use? Whose would you use?
The EVK is much more than you need to evaluate the 13192 radio chip. I
have one, but I won it in their competition in January so I didn't have
to pay the $2000 they are asking. (I couldn;t have done it on my student
budget, anyway!). You do need two boards, however, to set up a simple
radio link, and their price is $200 each. The kit comes with 5 boards.
The problem with pricing is that they have tried to do everything and
make it complete. You get five modules (obviously need more than 2 to
see the full potential of Zigbee) plus a 2.4GHz packet sniffer and a P&E
USB Multilink pod. When you add it all up it does seem
reasonably-priced, but you would think their marketing dept would
subsidise it for a select few (more than just us contest winners!)
If a third-party vendor were to get involved, I am sure the EVB modules
coukld be brought down to the $50 mark.
>While I'm venting, the web site for freegeeks.net has WAAAAY too much stuff
>on the home page. It is actually very hard to look at, and not easy to use.
>
>I would like to suggest that the designers of both the Freescale and
>freegeeks.net web sites take a close look at Apple Computer's web
>site. Apple offers hardware, software, repairs, advertising, educational
>activities, iPod and iTunes, an Internet portal (.Mac), developer
>information, dealer network guide and a ton of other stuff all from a
>handful of buttons on the home page. Their typeface is also a lot easier
>to read.
>
>I applaud the move to make Freescale more popular with the broader
>market. Let's face it, Motorola probably got what? half its total sales
>from a customer list that could be enumerated on one hand. With the loss
>of the sales to Motorola cell phones and Palm that won't be true for
>Freescale. So, it's broaden the market or go fishing. But changing a C
>compiler limit from 12K to 32K is preaching to the choir. >
I remember back in the beginning, when the 6800 came out. My friend and
I had projects. He had a PHd and could get big research grants, I
didn't. He spent $10k on an intel development station, and I spent $140
on a Motorola 6800D1 kit. We both got the same results, except I had
more fun!
If Freescale could continue the philosophy of providing cheap dev kits,
or at least supporting companies like Technological Arts to do so, they
willl take advantage of the great potential of having design decisions
enhanced by easily-available hardware that individual engineers can get
without having to go through the formal project study phase needd for
big-budget items.
cheers,
Nigel
>Gary Olmstead
>Toucan Technology
>Ventura CA
>www.toucantechnology.com >
>
>Yahoo! Groups Links
--
Nigel Johnson
MCSE, MIEEE
VE3ID/G4AJQ
http://nigel.homelinux.net
If time travel ever will be possible, it already is. Ask me again yesterday
This e-mail is not and cannot, by its nature, be confidential. En route from me to you, it will pass across the public Internet, easily readable by any number of system administrators along the way. If you have received this message by mistake, it would be ridiculous for me to tell you not to read it or copy to anybody else, because, let’s face it, if it’s a message revealing confidential information or that could embarrass me intensely, that’s precisely what you’ll do. Who wouldn’t?
Likewise, it is superfluous for me to claim copyright in the contents, because I own that anyway, even if you print out a hard copy or disseminate this message all over the known Universe. I don’t know why so many corporate mail servers feel impelled to attach a disclaimer to the bottom of every e-mail message saying otherwise. If you don’t either, why not e-mail your corporate lawyers and system administrators and ask them why they insist on contributing so much to the waste of bandwidth.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
(You need to be a member of 68hc12 -- send a blank email to 68hc12-subscribe@yahoogroups.com )
Re: OT: A call to students, hobbyists and other newcomers - Thiago A. Corrêa - Apr 11 14:09:00 2005
I´m a completely newbie with Freescale, and the bigest problem I
encountered was programming ( downloading ) to the chip.
First of, someone erased the monitor app ( I only figured that out
later ) from the kit, so I had to use DBM, which would not work into
CodeWarrior without a patch.
I think freegeeks already did a huge step by providing a free DBM
cable with everything that is needed. A good step would be focusing on
GNU. And not only on a 3k compiler ( CW ).
Some designs/software as examples would also be nice to have,
specially with FreeRTOS or perhaps a port of the ethernut Nut/OS.
On Apr 11, 2005 2:23 PM, Gary Olmstead <garyolmstead@gary...> wrote:
>
> OK, students, it's your turn. What SHOULD Freescale do to make its
> products more accessible to engineers who haven't grown up with
> Motorola/Freescale products?
>
> Come to think of it, this would make a good topic for a freegeeks.net
> monthly contest. Jim, it's yours for the taking.
>
> Gary Olmstead
> Toucan Technology
> Ventura CA
> www.toucantechnology.com > Yahoo! Groups Links
(You need to be a member of 68hc12 -- send a blank email to 68hc12-subscribe@yahoogroups.com )
encountered was programming ( downloading ) to the chip.
First of, someone erased the monitor app ( I only figured that out
later ) from the kit, so I had to use DBM, which would not work into
CodeWarrior without a patch.
I think freegeeks already did a huge step by providing a free DBM
cable with everything that is needed. A good step would be focusing on
GNU. And not only on a 3k compiler ( CW ).
Some designs/software as examples would also be nice to have,
specially with FreeRTOS or perhaps a port of the ethernut Nut/OS.
On Apr 11, 2005 2:23 PM, Gary Olmstead <garyolmstead@gary...> wrote:
>
> OK, students, it's your turn. What SHOULD Freescale do to make its
> products more accessible to engineers who haven't grown up with
> Motorola/Freescale products?
>
> Come to think of it, this would make a good topic for a freegeeks.net
> monthly contest. Jim, it's yours for the taking.
>
> Gary Olmstead
> Toucan Technology
> Ventura CA
> www.toucantechnology.com > Yahoo! Groups Links
(You need to be a member of 68hc12 -- send a blank email to 68hc12-subscribe@yahoogroups.com )
Re: entry level S12 tools - theobee00 - Apr 11 17:51:00 2005
--- In 68HC12@68HC..., "Oliver Betz" <list_ob@g...> wrote:
> I'm afraid, a DIP package wouldn't be profitable, because today even
> low volume production (say >50) is cheaper in SMT than hand soldering
> TH packages.
Learners aren't interested in making fifty, they want to try one on the cheap, and a percentage will go on to the full scale gadget manufacture with the full blown chips, if the device is any good word of mouth will do the rest.
If they have to do all the tooling up before they can make even one it prices itself out of reach for most, there are no kits that the average bod can play around with and assemble himself, so there is a lack of people appearing at the starting gate.
Ready made kits are a fairly expensive commodity if you have to buy the kit as well as the BDM as well as the software to drive it, that restricts the learning mainly to UNIs who can share out these cost, locking out the thousands that wan't to make that robot/mousetrap gadget.
Even for companies the soldering and software tools are still a cost, retraining staff ain't cheap either.
Add to that the paperwork that the US sends with the HC12 restricting its use by country and useage and it becomes a somewhat scary experience to play with the device.
The only reason we swapped to the HC12 was because there was an existing product to be redesigned, the extra ports and being able to stay with the source code was the clincher.
> For little money, the modules offer a big advantage for the beginner:
> it works immediately. See the many problems with PLL, BDM, Reset...
Nothing that a bit more accessible documentation for the beginner wouldn't fix.
I went through the archives here when I struck problems and the problems are always the same, a one page explanation with a kit would avoid all that, in the end there is little to go wrong with the hardware.
We found that 99% of our problems are soldering related, other then that a few chips mounted the wrong way around, an Xtal failure and a batch were the 15 and 5V were swapped, that one at least created some excitement (smoke and fire, BDM blown)
In my view it needs a fifty bucks D12 through hole kit or some such as a self assembly package with a short listing of relevant documentation and URLs to get to the starting gate.
If not the device will remain in the realm of the education and professional groups, it might even be too late to reach the amateurs at this late stage, simply too many other cheap choices around now. Regards,
Theo
(You need to be a member of 68hc12 -- send a blank email to 68hc12-subscribe@yahoogroups.com )
Re: Re: entry level S12 tools - Nigel Johnson - Apr 11 18:16:00 2005
theobee00 wrote:
>--- In 68HC12@68HC..., "Oliver Betz" <list_ob@g...> wrote: >
>>I'm afraid, a DIP package wouldn't be profitable, because today even
>>low volume production (say >50) is cheaper in SMT than hand soldering
>>TH packages.
>>
>>
>
>Learners aren't interested in making fifty, they want to try one on the cheap, and a percentage will go on to the full scale gadget manufacture with the full blown chips, if the device is any good word of mouth will do the rest. >
For learners, read individual engineers who want to make their mark!
Profit is in the eye of the beholder. For Freescale, no, but for folks
like Technological Arts, yes. So the answer is: entrepreneurs take the
chips and put them on headers for a reasonable price. That is how the
one in fifty gets his/her hands on what they need to move on to the next
step. Hours of experimentation to get a good mark from the prof are a
lot better for product familiarity than all the marketing dollars
Freescale can provide- so they need to make sure that eval kit makers
have all the latest chips and an easy way to get them into the hands of
potential users.
It's been a long time since Sheridan said "A good vine needeth no bush",
but it still holds true. If you have a better product, people will find
it - but you shouldn't go out of your way to make it hard for them!
cheers,
Nigel
--
Nigel Johnson
MCSE, MIEEE
VE3ID/G4AJQ
http://nigel.homelinux.net
If time travel ever will be possible, it already is. Ask me again yesterday
This e-mail is not and cannot, by its nature, be confidential. En route from me to you, it will pass across the public Internet, easily readable by any number of system administrators along the way. If you have received this message by mistake, it would be ridiculous for me to tell you not to read it or copy to anybody else, because, let’s face it, if it’s a message revealing confidential information or that could embarrass me intensely, that’s precisely what you’ll do. Who wouldn’t?
Likewise, it is superfluous for me to claim copyright in the contents, because I own that anyway, even if you print out a hard copy or disseminate this message all over the known Universe. I don’t know why so many corporate mail servers feel impelled to attach a disclaimer to the bottom of every e-mail message saying otherwise. If you don’t either, why not e-mail your corporate lawyers and system administrators and ask them why they insist on contributing so much to the waste of bandwidth.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
(You need to be a member of 68hc12 -- send a blank email to 68hc12-subscribe@yahoogroups.com )
>--- In 68HC12@68HC..., "Oliver Betz" <list_ob@g...> wrote: >
>>I'm afraid, a DIP package wouldn't be profitable, because today even
>>low volume production (say >50) is cheaper in SMT than hand soldering
>>TH packages.
>>
>>
>
>Learners aren't interested in making fifty, they want to try one on the cheap, and a percentage will go on to the full scale gadget manufacture with the full blown chips, if the device is any good word of mouth will do the rest. >
For learners, read individual engineers who want to make their mark!
Profit is in the eye of the beholder. For Freescale, no, but for folks
like Technological Arts, yes. So the answer is: entrepreneurs take the
chips and put them on headers for a reasonable price. That is how the
one in fifty gets his/her hands on what they need to move on to the next
step. Hours of experimentation to get a good mark from the prof are a
lot better for product familiarity than all the marketing dollars
Freescale can provide- so they need to make sure that eval kit makers
have all the latest chips and an easy way to get them into the hands of
potential users.
It's been a long time since Sheridan said "A good vine needeth no bush",
but it still holds true. If you have a better product, people will find
it - but you shouldn't go out of your way to make it hard for them!
cheers,
Nigel
--
Nigel Johnson
MCSE, MIEEE
VE3ID/G4AJQ
http://nigel.homelinux.net
If time travel ever will be possible, it already is. Ask me again yesterday
This e-mail is not and cannot, by its nature, be confidential. En route from me to you, it will pass across the public Internet, easily readable by any number of system administrators along the way. If you have received this message by mistake, it would be ridiculous for me to tell you not to read it or copy to anybody else, because, let’s face it, if it’s a message revealing confidential information or that could embarrass me intensely, that’s precisely what you’ll do. Who wouldn’t?
Likewise, it is superfluous for me to claim copyright in the contents, because I own that anyway, even if you print out a hard copy or disseminate this message all over the known Universe. I don’t know why so many corporate mail servers feel impelled to attach a disclaimer to the bottom of every e-mail message saying otherwise. If you don’t either, why not e-mail your corporate lawyers and system administrators and ask them why they insist on contributing so much to the waste of bandwidth.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
(You need to be a member of 68hc12 -- send a blank email to 68hc12-subscribe@yahoogroups.com )
Re: OT: A call to students, hobbyists and other newcomers - Author Unknown - Apr 12 14:58:00 2005
OK , watch out for that in the May/June competition, for the time being I'm a bit
late in getting the April competition up.
Sponsors for the competition are as always very, very welcome.
Best Regards
Jim
www.freegeeks.net
----- Original Message -----
From: Gary Olmstead
To: 68HC12@68HC...
Sent: Monday, April 11, 2005 6:23 PM
Subject: [68HC12] OT: A call to students, hobbyists and other newcomers OK, students, it's your turn. What SHOULD Freescale do to make its
products more accessible to engineers who haven't grown up with
Motorola/Freescale products?
Come to think of it, this would make a good topic for a freegeeks.net
monthly contest. Jim, it's yours for the taking.
Gary Olmstead
Toucan Technology
Ventura CA
www.toucantechnology.com
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Yahoo! Groups Links
a.. To
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
(You need to be a member of 68hc12 -- send a blank email to 68hc12-subscribe@yahoogroups.com )
Sponsors for the competition are as always very, very welcome.
Best Regards
Jim
www.freegeeks.net
----- Original Message -----
From: Gary Olmstead
To: 68HC12@68HC...
Sent: Monday, April 11, 2005 6:23 PM
Subject: [68HC12] OT: A call to students, hobbyists and other newcomers OK, students, it's your turn. What SHOULD Freescale do to make its
products more accessible to engineers who haven't grown up with
Motorola/Freescale products?
Come to think of it, this would make a good topic for a freegeeks.net
monthly contest. Jim, it's yours for the taking.
Gary Olmstead
Toucan Technology
Ventura CA
www.toucantechnology.com
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Yahoo! Groups Links
a.. To
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
(You need to be a member of 68hc12 -- send a blank email to 68hc12-subscribe@yahoogroups.com )
Re: OT: A call to students, hobbyists and other newcomers - JCL - Apr 13 11:44:00 2005
Hi,
I'm not a student but a hobbyist.
I have downloaded all the docs on the Freescale site about MC9S12DP256B.
I have connected I2C components and One-wire components with a Wytec
MiniDRAGON board, and I assure you, it's very, very difficult.
Thanks to the list, the Valvano's site, Tom Almy's course, Roger and a
lot of other good guys.
For that time, I have succeeded in my little project, but I think a
cookbook, with how to connect stuffs, how to use all the different
blocks in the MCU, in C and assembler with short and clear examples
would be a gift.
Thanks to all
Jean --- In 68HC12@68HC..., Gary Olmstead <garyolmstead@e...> wrote:
> OK, students, it's your turn. What SHOULD Freescale do to make its
> products more accessible to engineers who haven't grown up with
> Motorola/Freescale products?
>
> Come to think of it, this would make a good topic for a freegeeks.net
> monthly contest. Jim, it's yours for the taking.
>
> Gary Olmstead
> Toucan Technology
> Ventura CA
> www.toucantechnology.com
(You need to be a member of 68hc12 -- send a blank email to 68hc12-subscribe@yahoogroups.com )
Re: OT: A call to students, hobbyists and other newcomers - Eric Engler - Apr 15 7:50:00 2005
> For that time, I have succeeded in my little project, but I think a
> cookbook, with how to connect stuffs, how to use all the different
> blocks in the MCU, in C and assembler with short and clear examples
> would be a gift.
It sounds like you could write us up a set of instructions on how to
do this? You've got it all figured out now!
Eric
(You need to be a member of 68hc12 -- send a blank email to 68hc12-subscribe@yahoogroups.com )
Re: OT: A call to students, hobbyists and other newcomers - JCL - Apr 15 12:07:00 2005
Hell no, Eric, I could'nt.
I have not the skills to do that.
Maybe I seem a little up to you about what I've done.
It's just that I'm a self-made man in processors and programing
and, I'm a bit proud of the little things that work fine.
I'm not finished with my project and I think it will took me
several months to go through it.
I have just offer an opinion. I'm not totally fluent in english.
Maybe I hav'nt well understood the question.
I appreciate every day reading the posts on that list and going to
good websites like yours and many others. All those things help
a lot and I enjoy toying with microcontrollers.
Thanks and
Carpe Diem.
Jean
--- In 68HC12@68HC..., "Eric Engler" <englere.geo@y...> wrote:
>
> > For that time, I have succeeded in my little project, but I think a
> > cookbook, with how to connect stuffs, how to use all the different
> > blocks in the MCU, in C and assembler with short and clear examples
> > would be a gift.
>
> It sounds like you could write us up a set of instructions on how to
> do this? You've got it all figured out now!
>
> Eric
(You need to be a member of 68hc12 -- send a blank email to 68hc12-subscribe@yahoogroups.com )
Re: OT: A call to students, hobbyists and other newcomers - Eric Engler - Apr 17 0:47:00 2005
--- In 68HC12@68HC..., "JCL" <domi2c@w...> wrote:
> Hell no, Eric, I could'nt.
> I have not the skills to do that.
Yes you do. I can help you make the sentences better, but you can
provide the basic technical steps.
> It's just that I'm a self-made man in processors and programing
> and, I'm a bit proud of the little things that work fine.
This is great! I think many of the people on this list are just like
you. I am definitely not an expert on embedded devices, and I've never
even used them on any of the jobs I've had. I write PC programs for a
living.
>I enjoy toying with microcontrollers.
We all do - that's why we participate in these message boards. If it
wasn't fun, we'd be doing something else.
I'll tell you a secret - I have learned a lot by helping others. In
many cases I don't know how to solve a problem until I start helping
somebody else. You become a greater master of a subject by helping
people who know less than you. You are not only making them smarter,
but you are also making yourself smarter by answering their questions.
Eric
(You need to be a member of 68hc12 -- send a blank email to 68hc12-subscribe@yahoogroups.com )
Re: Re: OT: A call to students, hobbyists and other newcomers - Steve Russell - Apr 18 14:25:00 2005
JCL, and other recent survivors of the first use of an HC12,
I agree with Eric.
What us "experts" lack is a clear idea of what was hard for you to
find. We have solved enough mysteries in the past that we don't understand
what gives trouble to someone without our history.
Another thing that you have is the step by step procedure to get from
opening the box to "working". And the reason for all this Email was that
there wasn't one!
Lots of people and programs are happy to fix grammar and spelling
issues. Many readers will have suggestions for improving clarity. Once
you have the basics down, those problems almost fix themselves.
To help others in your situation, just draft something like what you wish
you had when you started, and send it.
It will help!
Steve Russell
Nohau
At 09:47 PM 4/16/2005, Eric Engler wrote: >--- In 68HC12@68HC..., "JCL" <domi2c@w...> wrote:
> > Hell no, Eric, I could'nt.
> > I have not the skills to do that.
>
>Yes you do. I can help you make the sentences better, but you can
>provide the basic technical steps.
>
> > It's just that I'm a self-made man in processors and programing
> > and, I'm a bit proud of the little things that work fine.
>
>This is great! I think many of the people on this list are just like
>you. I am definitely not an expert on embedded devices, and I've never
>even used them on any of the jobs I've had. I write PC programs for a
>living.
>
> >I enjoy toying with microcontrollers.
>
>We all do - that's why we participate in these message boards. If it
>wasn't fun, we'd be doing something else.
>
>I'll tell you a secret - I have learned a lot by helping others. In
>many cases I don't know how to solve a problem until I start helping
>somebody else. You become a greater master of a subject by helping
>people who know less than you. You are not only making them smarter,
>but you are also making yourself smarter by answering their questions.
>
>Eric >
>
>Yahoo! Groups Links
(You need to be a member of 68hc12 -- send a blank email to 68hc12-subscribe@yahoogroups.com )
I agree with Eric.
What us "experts" lack is a clear idea of what was hard for you to
find. We have solved enough mysteries in the past that we don't understand
what gives trouble to someone without our history.
Another thing that you have is the step by step procedure to get from
opening the box to "working". And the reason for all this Email was that
there wasn't one!
Lots of people and programs are happy to fix grammar and spelling
issues. Many readers will have suggestions for improving clarity. Once
you have the basics down, those problems almost fix themselves.
To help others in your situation, just draft something like what you wish
you had when you started, and send it.
It will help!
Steve Russell
Nohau
At 09:47 PM 4/16/2005, Eric Engler wrote: >--- In 68HC12@68HC..., "JCL" <domi2c@w...> wrote:
> > Hell no, Eric, I could'nt.
> > I have not the skills to do that.
>
>Yes you do. I can help you make the sentences better, but you can
>provide the basic technical steps.
>
> > It's just that I'm a self-made man in processors and programing
> > and, I'm a bit proud of the little things that work fine.
>
>This is great! I think many of the people on this list are just like
>you. I am definitely not an expert on embedded devices, and I've never
>even used them on any of the jobs I've had. I write PC programs for a
>living.
>
> >I enjoy toying with microcontrollers.
>
>We all do - that's why we participate in these message boards. If it
>wasn't fun, we'd be doing something else.
>
>I'll tell you a secret - I have learned a lot by helping others. In
>many cases I don't know how to solve a problem until I start helping
>somebody else. You become a greater master of a subject by helping
>people who know less than you. You are not only making them smarter,
>but you are also making yourself smarter by answering their questions.
>
>Eric >
>
>Yahoo! Groups Links
(You need to be a member of 68hc12 -- send a blank email to 68hc12-subscribe@yahoogroups.com )
Re: OT: A call to students, hobbyists and other newcomers - JCL - Apr 19 15:52:00 2005
Hi Steven,
I have tried to give you my vision of this HCS12 world. It's in a
file I have uploaded and called beginning.doc
Another time, thanks a lot
Jean Claude
--- In 68HC12@68HC..., Steve Russell <stever@n...> wrote:
> JCL, and other recent survivors of the first use of an HC12,
>
> I agree with Eric.
>
> What us "experts" lack is a clear idea of what was hard for you to
> find. We have solved enough mysteries in the past that we don't
understand
> what gives trouble to someone without our history.
>
> Another thing that you have is the step by step procedure to get
from
> opening the box to "working". And the reason for all this Email
was that
> there wasn't one!
>
> Lots of people and programs are happy to fix grammar and spelling
> issues. Many readers will have suggestions for improving clarity.
Once
> you have the basics down, those problems almost fix themselves.
>
> To help others in your situation, just draft something like what
you wish
> you had when you started, and send it.
>
> It will help!
>
> Steve Russell
> Nohau
>
> At 09:47 PM 4/16/2005, Eric Engler wrote: > >--- In 68HC12@68HC..., "JCL" <domi2c@w...> wrote:
> > > Hell no, Eric, I could'nt.
> > > I have not the skills to do that.
> >
> >Yes you do. I can help you make the sentences better, but you can
> >provide the basic technical steps.
> >
> > > It's just that I'm a self-made man in processors and programing
> > > and, I'm a bit proud of the little things that work fine.
> >
> >This is great! I think many of the people on this list are just
like
> >you. I am definitely not an expert on embedded devices, and I've
never
> >even used them on any of the jobs I've had. I write PC programs
for a
> >living.
> >
> > >I enjoy toying with microcontrollers.
> >
> >We all do - that's why we participate in these message boards. If
it
> >wasn't fun, we'd be doing something else.
> >
> >I'll tell you a secret - I have learned a lot by helping others. In
> >many cases I don't know how to solve a problem until I start
helping
> >somebody else. You become a greater master of a subject by helping
> >people who know less than you. You are not only making them
smarter,
> >but you are also making yourself smarter by answering their
questions.
> >
> >Eric
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
>
(You need to be a member of 68hc12 -- send a blank email to 68hc12-subscribe@yahoogroups.com )