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Discussion Groups | 68HC12 | M68KIT912DP256

Join our technical discussions about Freescale Microcontrollers: M68HC12. (Freescale Semiconductor is a Subsidiary of Motorola).

M68KIT912DP256 - hc12 - Jan 7 21:47:00 2003

Hi All,

The Motorola HCS12 dev board (M68KIT912DP256) I ordered arrived today.
Before I start working with it, I was wondering if any of you know of any
problems or gotchas with the kit not already documented in errata.

Thanks,
Rich


______________________________
Stellaris® MCU Family: New Parts, New Package, New Price.


(You need to be a member of 68hc12 -- send a blank email to 68hc12-subscribe@yahoogroups.com )


RE: M68KIT912DP256 - Kellogg Dave - Jan 8 10:35:00 2003

My board ran fine straight out of the box. I have had to be careful with
using the P&E BDM module. In my experience, the BDM prefers to be directly
connected to the PC's parallel port. If things get flakey, try a direct
connect. Caution, This was marginal enough that diagnosing the cause was
difficult because back-to-back tests would give differing results. 607-656-2597 -----Original Message-----
From: hc12 [mailto:]
Sent: Tuesday, January 07, 2003 9:48 PM
To: hc12
Subject: [68HC12] M68KIT912DP256 Hi All,

The Motorola HCS12 dev board (M68KIT912DP256) I ordered arrived today.
Before I start working with it, I was wondering if any of you know of any
problems or gotchas with the kit not already documented in errata.

Thanks,
Rich
--------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: To learn more about Motorola Microcontrollers, please visit
http://www.motorola.com/mcu




(You need to be a member of 68hc12 -- send a blank email to 68hc12-subscribe@yahoogroups.com )

RE: M68KIT912DP256 - Bob Furber - Jan 8 11:56:00 2003

> My board ran fine straight out of the box. I have had to
be
> careful with
> using the P&E BDM module. In my experience, the BDM
prefers
> to be directly
> connected to the PC's parallel port. If things get
flakey,
> try a direct
> connect. Caution, This was marginal enough that
diagnosing
> the cause was
> difficult because back-to-back tests would give differing
results.

The P&E BDM module has quite a short cable. As a
consequence, it is convenient to extend it with a DB25
cable. The problem is that not all DB25 cables are equal.
Some (usually very old and thick cables) work fine and
others almost work, or work most of the time, but not
reliably (i.e., "flaky"). But, if you use a IEEE 1284 cable,
the P&E BDM module will always work.

Btw, don't even think of extending the ribbon cable. Doing
so will result in the same "flaky" behavior as a cheap DB25
cable.

Bfn,

Bob Furber

__________________________________________________________

Connect your micro to the internet the easy way
www.microcommander.com

Microcontroller with an obscenity of I/O & features
..in a small footprint www.steroidmicros.com
__________________________________________________________

______________________________
Stellaris® MCU Family: New Parts, New Package, New Price.


(You need to be a member of 68hc12 -- send a blank email to 68hc12-subscribe@yahoogroups.com )

RE: M68KIT912DP256 - Stephen Mac Neil - Jan 8 12:31:00 2003

Could you define direct connection to the parallel port please. Does this
mean I can wire the DB25 directly to the BDM and if yes how do I do that?
-----Original Message-----
From: Kellogg Dave [mailto:]
Sent: Wednesday, January 08, 2003 11:35 AM
To: '
Subject: RE: [68HC12] M68KIT912DP256 My board ran fine straight out of the box. I have had to be careful with
using the P&E BDM module. In my experience, the BDM prefers to be
directly
connected to the PC's parallel port. If things get flakey, try a direct
connect. Caution, This was marginal enough that diagnosing the cause was
difficult because back-to-back tests would give differing results. 607-656-2597 -----Original Message-----
From: hc12 [mailto:]
Sent: Tuesday, January 07, 2003 9:48 PM
To: hc12
Subject: [68HC12] M68KIT912DP256 Hi All,

The Motorola HCS12 dev board (M68KIT912DP256) I ordered arrived today.
Before I start working with it, I was wondering if any of you know of any
problems or gotchas with the kit not already documented in errata.

Thanks,
Rich
--------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: To learn more about Motorola Microcontrollers, please visit
http://www.motorola.com/mcu Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
ADVERTISEMENT

--------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: To learn more about Motorola Microcontrollers, please visit
http://www.motorola.com/mcu Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



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RE: M68KIT912DP256 - Kellogg Dave - Jan 8 16:36:00 2003

Bob -
I have even had problems using 6 foot cables marked IEEE 1284.

I have been very successfully in extending the 6-pin cable, by substituting
a cable made from CAT-5E wire. Each signal line has its twisted twin
grounded.
607-656-2597 -----Original Message-----
From: Bob Furber [mailto:]
Sent: Wednesday, January 08, 2003 11:57 AM
To:
Subject: RE: [68HC12] M68KIT912DP256 > My board ran fine straight out of the box. I have had to
be
> careful with
> using the P&E BDM module. In my experience, the BDM
prefers
> to be directly
> connected to the PC's parallel port. If things get
flakey,
> try a direct
> connect. Caution, This was marginal enough that
diagnosing
> the cause was
> difficult because back-to-back tests would give differing
results.

The P&E BDM module has quite a short cable. As a
consequence, it is convenient to extend it with a DB25
cable. The problem is that not all DB25 cables are equal.
Some (usually very old and thick cables) work fine and
others almost work, or work most of the time, but not
reliably (i.e., "flaky"). But, if you use a IEEE 1284 cable, the P&E BDM
module will always work.

Btw, don't even think of extending the ribbon cable. Doing
so will result in the same "flaky" behavior as a cheap DB25 cable.

Bfn,

Bob Furber

__________________________________________________________

Connect your micro to the internet the easy way
www.microcommander.com

Microcontroller with an obscenity of I/O & features
..in a small footprint www.steroidmicros.com
__________________________________________________________
--------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: To learn more about Motorola Microcontrollers, please visit
http://www.motorola.com/mcu



(You need to be a member of 68hc12 -- send a blank email to 68hc12-subscribe@yahoogroups.com )

RE: M68KIT912DP256 - Kellogg Dave - Jan 8 16:41:00 2003

I simply plugged the BDM module straight onto the back of my PC (DB25M <-->
DB25F). This way my only reliable configuration. BTW, I have a full tower
Gateway.

To make up for the lost cable length, I extended the 6-pin side using CAT-5E
cable and using the twisted twins as ground shields. 15 feet worked OK, but
I generally keep it down to about 5'. 607-656-2597 -----Original Message-----
From: Stephen Mac Neil [mailto:]
Sent: Wednesday, January 08, 2003 12:31 PM
To:
Subject: RE: [68HC12] M68KIT912DP256 Could you define direct connection to the parallel port please. Does this
mean I can wire the DB25 directly to the BDM and if yes how do I do that?
-----Original Message-----
From: Kellogg Dave [mailto:]
Sent: Wednesday, January 08, 2003 11:35 AM
To: '
Subject: RE: [68HC12] M68KIT912DP256 My board ran fine straight out of the box. I have had to be careful with
using the P&E BDM module. In my experience, the BDM prefers to be
directly
connected to the PC's parallel port. If things get flakey, try a direct
connect. Caution, This was marginal enough that diagnosing the cause was
difficult because back-to-back tests would give differing results. 607-656-2597 -----Original Message-----
From: hc12 [mailto:]
Sent: Tuesday, January 07, 2003 9:48 PM
To: hc12
Subject: [68HC12] M68KIT912DP256 Hi All,

The Motorola HCS12 dev board (M68KIT912DP256) I ordered arrived today.
Before I start working with it, I was wondering if any of you know of any
problems or gotchas with the kit not already documented in errata.

Thanks,
Rich
--------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: To learn more about Motorola Microcontrollers, please visit
http://www.motorola.com/mcu Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
ADVERTISEMENT

--------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: To learn more about Motorola Microcontrollers, please visit
http://www.motorola.com/mcu



(You need to be a member of 68hc12 -- send a blank email to 68hc12-subscribe@yahoogroups.com )

Re: M68KIT912DP256 - Bruce McMillan - Jan 8 21:14:00 2003

Appreciate these posts. I had given up on the P&E pod and gone back to
good old Debug12. (I continue to use the Metrowerks editor tho'.) Since
my target uses the PLL for 16MHz bus speed, the only way to debug is to
write the contents of suspect variables to the LCD screen on the
target. [Actually not such a bad way to proceed.]

Anyway these posts give me encouragement to try the P&E pod again..

Bruce
_______________________________________
Kellogg Dave wrote:

> I simply plugged the BDM module straight onto the back of my PC (DB25M <-->
> DB25F). This way my only reliable configuration. BTW, I have a full tower
> Gateway.
>
> To make up for the lost cable length, I extended the 6-pin side using CAT-5E
> cable and using the twisted twins as ground shields. 15 feet worked OK, but
> I generally keep it down to about 5'. > 607-656-2597 > -----Original Message-----
> From: Stephen Mac Neil [mailto:]
> Sent: Wednesday, January 08, 2003 12:31 PM
> To:
> Subject: RE: [68HC12] M68KIT912DP256 > Could you define direct connection to the parallel port please. Does this
> mean I can wire the DB25 directly to the BDM and if yes how do I do that? >
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Kellogg Dave [mailto:]
> Sent: Wednesday, January 08, 2003 11:35 AM
> To: '
> Subject: RE: [68HC12] M68KIT912DP256 > My board ran fine straight out of the box. I have had to be careful with
> using the P&E BDM module. In my experience, the BDM prefers to be
> directly
> connected to the PC's parallel port. If things get flakey, try a direct
> connect. Caution, This was marginal enough that diagnosing the cause was
> difficult because back-to-back tests would give differing results. > 607-656-2597 > -----Original Message-----
> From: hc12 [mailto:]
> Sent: Tuesday, January 07, 2003 9:48 PM
> To: hc12
> Subject: [68HC12] M68KIT912DP256 > Hi All,
>
> The Motorola HCS12 dev board (M68KIT912DP256) I ordered arrived today.
> Before I start working with it, I was wondering if any of you know of any
> problems or gotchas with the kit not already documented in errata.
>
> Thanks,
> Rich >
> --------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > To learn more about Motorola Microcontrollers, please visit
> http://www.motorola.com/mcu > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
> ADVERTISEMENT >
>
> --------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > To learn more about Motorola Microcontrollers, please visit
> http://www.motorola.com/mcu > >
> --------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > To learn more about Motorola Microcontrollers, please visit
> http://www.motorola.com/mcu > > .

--
Bruce McMillan
www.Pocket-Neurobics.com Tools for the Mind
a division of Minder Labs PL ACN 093279915
..pocket-sized, integrated 4ch neurofeedback and light & sound




(You need to be a member of 68hc12 -- send a blank email to 68hc12-subscribe@yahoogroups.com )

RE: M68KIT912DP256 - Bob Furber - Jan 8 21:52:00 2003

Let us not forget the most common cause of BDM module
problems: A non standard LPT port. Our experience with Dell
LPT ports is that they almost work, giving the impression
that the problem may be something else. I have heard that Hp
& Compaq printer ports do not always interface nicely with
BDM modules.

We have not heard of any LPT compatibility problems on
generic, no-name PC's :o)

Bfn,

Bob Furber

__________________________________________________________

Connect your micro to the internet the easy way
www.microcommander.com

Microcontroller with an obscenity of I/O & features
..in a small footprint www.steroidmicros.com
__________________________________________________________




(You need to be a member of 68hc12 -- send a blank email to 68hc12-subscribe@yahoogroups.com )

Re: M68KIT912DP256 - Doron Fael - Jan 9 2:06:00 2003

Bruce and all,

From reading these postings, one can get the impression there is only one
BDM emulator available for the HC12/HCS12, and it has many problems, and
there is nothing to do about it.

Well, there are other BDM emulators for the HC12/HCS12 available in the
market. And guess what? They don't have any of the reported problems here.
Nohau is selling a BDM for $1990, plugging to either USB, LPT port or a
dedicated ISA card. Other vendors exist as well. Yes, it is more expensive
than the P&E, but on the other hand it will save some of your frustration,
and will return its investment by saving the time you mess up with problems.

You are saying you intend to debug your code by writing suspect variables
to the LCD. Well, you will save yourself a lot of time by using a good
debugger. Think only of the amount of time you will be investing in
recompiling code to write suspect variables to the LCD and flashing it to
the HC12. Multiply that by several variables, and several compile-flash
iterations to resolve each bug, and it starts to add up quit fast. How many
debugging hours do you need to save in order to return a $1990 investment
on a good BDM? Not many is my guess.

A 10 day trial period, to evaluate the emulator is also possible.

Doron
Nohau Corporation
HC12 In-Circuit Emulators
www.nohau.com/emul12pc.html

>Appreciate these posts. I had given up on the P&E pod and gone back to
>good old Debug12. (I continue to use the Metrowerks editor tho'.) Since
>my target uses the PLL for 16MHz bus speed, the only way to debug is to
> write the contents of suspect variables to the LCD screen on the
>target. [Actually not such a bad way to proceed.]
>
>Anyway these posts give me encouragement to try the P&E pod again..
>
>Bruce
>_______________________________________
>Kellogg Dave wrote:
>
> > I simply plugged the BDM module straight onto the back of my PC (DB25M <-->
> > DB25F). This way my only reliable configuration. BTW, I have a full tower
> > Gateway.
> >
> > To make up for the lost cable length, I extended the 6-pin side using
> CAT-5E
> > cable and using the twisted twins as ground shields. 15 feet worked
> OK, but
> > I generally keep it down to about 5'.
> >
> >
> > 607-656-2597
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Stephen Mac Neil [mailto:]
> > Sent: Wednesday, January 08, 2003 12:31 PM
> > To:
> > Subject: RE: [68HC12] M68KIT912DP256
> >
> >
> > Could you define direct connection to the parallel port please. Does this
> > mean I can wire the DB25 directly to the BDM and if yes how do I do that?
> >
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Kellogg Dave [mailto:]
> > Sent: Wednesday, January 08, 2003 11:35 AM
> > To: '
> > Subject: RE: [68HC12] M68KIT912DP256
> >
> >
> > My board ran fine straight out of the box. I have had to be careful with
> > using the P&E BDM module. In my experience, the BDM prefers to be
> > directly
> > connected to the PC's parallel port. If things get flakey, try a direct
> > connect. Caution, This was marginal enough that diagnosing the cause was
> > difficult because back-to-back tests would give differing results.
> >
> >
> > 607-656-2597
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: hc12 [mailto:]
> > Sent: Tuesday, January 07, 2003 9:48 PM
> > To: hc12
> > Subject: [68HC12] M68KIT912DP256
> >
> >
> > Hi All,
> >
> > The Motorola HCS12 dev board (M68KIT912DP256) I ordered arrived today.
> > Before I start working with it, I was wondering if any of you know of any
> > problems or gotchas with the kit not already documented in errata.
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Rich
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --------------------------------------------------------
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> >
> >
> > To learn more about Motorola Microcontrollers, please visit
> > http://www.motorola.com/mcu
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
> > ADVERTISEMENT
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --------------------------------------------------------
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> >
> >
> > To learn more about Motorola Microcontrollers, please visit
> > http://www.motorola.com/mcu
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --------------------------------------------------------
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> >
> >
> > To learn more about Motorola Microcontrollers, please visit
> > http://www.motorola.com/mcu
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > .
> >
> >--
>Bruce McMillan
>www.Pocket-Neurobics.com Tools for the Mind
>a division of Minder Labs PL ACN 093279915
>..pocket-sized, integrated 4ch neurofeedback and light & sound >
>--------------------------------------------------------
>To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: >To learn more about Motorola Microcontrollers, please visit
>http://www.motorola.com/mcu
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




(You need to be a member of 68hc12 -- send a blank email to 68hc12-subscribe@yahoogroups.com )

RE: M68KIT912DP256 - Jared O'Mara - Jan 9 8:01:00 2003

We have 2 Noral BDM pods and have never had a problem using the supplied
parallel port cable (6 ft) and gateway computers. They were also in the 2K
range (each) and to praise them by saying we never had a problem is an
injustice. We _love_ them for the flawless operation and the slick debug
software that they obviously invested a lot of time to develop. They were
eager to let us evaluate one for 30 days and provided tech support to get us
up and running even though we were not paying customers. There are other
solutions out there and you need to take the time to evaluate the tools
before buying. It may delay development, but that cost will be recovered
when the tools are able to do what they are intended.

Jared

-----Original Message-----
From: Doron Fael [mailto:]
Sent: Thursday, January 09, 2003 2:07 AM
To:
Subject: Re: [68HC12] M68KIT912DP256

Bruce and all,

From reading these postings, one can get the impression there is only one
BDM emulator available for the HC12/HCS12, and it has many problems, and
there is nothing to do about it.

Well, there are other BDM emulators for the HC12/HCS12 available in the
market. And guess what? They don't have any of the reported problems here.
Nohau is selling a BDM for $1990, plugging to either USB, LPT port or a
dedicated ISA card. Other vendors exist as well. Yes, it is more expensive
than the P&E, but on the other hand it will save some of your frustration,
and will return its investment by saving the time you mess up with problems.

You are saying you intend to debug your code by writing suspect variables
to the LCD. Well, you will save yourself a lot of time by using a good
debugger. Think only of the amount of time you will be investing in
recompiling code to write suspect variables to the LCD and flashing it to
the HC12. Multiply that by several variables, and several compile-flash
iterations to resolve each bug, and it starts to add up quit fast. How many
debugging hours do you need to save in order to return a $1990 investment
on a good BDM? Not many is my guess.

A 10 day trial period, to evaluate the emulator is also possible.

Doron
Nohau Corporation
HC12 In-Circuit Emulators
www.nohau.com/emul12pc.html

>Appreciate these posts. I had given up on the P&E pod and gone back to
>good old Debug12. (I continue to use the Metrowerks editor tho'.) Since
>my target uses the PLL for 16MHz bus speed, the only way to debug is to
> write the contents of suspect variables to the LCD screen on the
>target. [Actually not such a bad way to proceed.]
>
>Anyway these posts give me encouragement to try the P&E pod again..
>
>Bruce
>_______________________________________
>Kellogg Dave wrote:
>
> > I simply plugged the BDM module straight onto the back of my PC (DB25M
<-->
> > DB25F). This way my only reliable configuration. BTW, I have a full
tower
> > Gateway.
> >
> > To make up for the lost cable length, I extended the 6-pin side using
> CAT-5E
> > cable and using the twisted twins as ground shields. 15 feet worked
> OK, but
> > I generally keep it down to about 5'.
> >
> >
> > 607-656-2597
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Stephen Mac Neil [mailto:]
> > Sent: Wednesday, January 08, 2003 12:31 PM
> > To:
> > Subject: RE: [68HC12] M68KIT912DP256
> >
> >
> > Could you define direct connection to the parallel port please. Does
this
> > mean I can wire the DB25 directly to the BDM and if yes how do I do
that?
> >
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Kellogg Dave [mailto:]
> > Sent: Wednesday, January 08, 2003 11:35 AM
> > To: '
> > Subject: RE: [68HC12] M68KIT912DP256
> >
> >
> > My board ran fine straight out of the box. I have had to be careful
with
> > using the P&E BDM module. In my experience, the BDM prefers to be
> > directly
> > connected to the PC's parallel port. If things get flakey, try a
direct
> > connect. Caution, This was marginal enough that diagnosing the cause
was
> > difficult because back-to-back tests would give differing results.
> >
> >
> > 607-656-2597
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: hc12 [mailto:]
> > Sent: Tuesday, January 07, 2003 9:48 PM
> > To: hc12
> > Subject: [68HC12] M68KIT912DP256
> >
> >
> > Hi All,
> >
> > The Motorola HCS12 dev board (M68KIT912DP256) I ordered arrived today.
> > Before I start working with it, I was wondering if any of you know of
any
> > problems or gotchas with the kit not already documented in errata.
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Rich
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --------------------------------------------------------
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> >
> >
> > To learn more about Motorola Microcontrollers, please visit
> > http://www.motorola.com/mcu
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
> > ADVERTISEMENT
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --------------------------------------------------------
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> >
> >
> > To learn more about Motorola Microcontrollers, please visit
> > http://www.motorola.com/mcu
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --------------------------------------------------------
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> >
> >
> > To learn more about Motorola Microcontrollers, please visit
> > http://www.motorola.com/mcu
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > .
> >
> >--
>Bruce McMillan
>www.Pocket-Neurobics.com Tools for the Mind
>a division of Minder Labs PL ACN 093279915
>..pocket-sized, integrated 4ch neurofeedback and light & sound >
>--------------------------------------------------------
>To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: >To learn more about Motorola Microcontrollers, please visit
>http://www.motorola.com/mcu
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
--------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: To learn more about Motorola Microcontrollers, please visit
http://www.motorola.com/mcu





(You need to be a member of 68hc12 -- send a blank email to 68hc12-subscribe@yahoogroups.com )

RE: M68KIT912DP256 - Bob Furber - Jan 9 12:57:00 2003

Hi Don,

> From reading these postings, one can get the impression
> there is only one
> BDM emulator available for the HC12/HCS12, and it has many
> problems, and
> there is nothing to do about it.

Actually, I believe that there are very few problems with
the P&E debuger and debug cable and and even fewer that
don't have a simple, inexpensive solutions. We hear about
these problems because ..well, that is what this list is
for.

> They don't have any of the reported
> problems here.
> Nohau is selling a BDM for $1990, plugging to either USB,
LPT
> port or a
> dedicated ISA card. Other vendors exist as well. Yes, it
is
> more expensive
> than the P&E, but on the other hand it will save some of
your
> frustration,
> and will return its investment by saving the time you mess
up
> with problems.

You make some good points. The Nohau emulator may indeed
offer many advantages over the P&E debugger ..for a price.
Notwithstanding, many users, including myself, find that the
P&E debugger/cable offers very good value. Some people drink
beer, and some can afford champaigne.

It would be interesting to hear about users experiences with
other debuggers and BDM modules. Maybe us beer drinkers
should consider coolers, or even champaigne.

Bfn,

Bob Furber

__________________________________________________________

Connect your micro to the internet the easy way
www.microcommander.com

Microcontroller with an obscenity of I/O & features
..in a small footprint www.steroidmicros.com
__________________________________________________________




(You need to be a member of 68hc12 -- send a blank email to 68hc12-subscribe@yahoogroups.com )

Re: M68KIT912DP256 - Francois - Jan 9 13:07:00 2003

Hi,

I guess the Nohau's argument will be valid if your are working for a company
and
the boss is breathing down your neck for results - just suggest that 'other'
more productive
tool for $2000 and if he does not quickly back off, you might consider yer
self a new toy
commin soon.

However if you work for yersleves, I guess you can try it on your spouse -
or skip a coupala
beers.

Frank van der Merwe
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bob Furber" <>
To: <>
Sent: Thursday, January 09, 2003 9:57 AM
Subject: RE: [68HC12] M68KIT912DP256 > Hi Don,
>
> > From reading these postings, one can get the impression
> > there is only one
> > BDM emulator available for the HC12/HCS12, and it has many
> > problems, and
> > there is nothing to do about it.
>
> Actually, I believe that there are very few problems with
> the P&E debuger and debug cable and and even fewer that
> don't have a simple, inexpensive solutions. We hear about
> these problems because ..well, that is what this list is
> for.
>
> > They don't have any of the reported
> > problems here.
> > Nohau is selling a BDM for $1990, plugging to either USB,
> LPT
> > port or a
> > dedicated ISA card. Other vendors exist as well. Yes, it
> is
> > more expensive
> > than the P&E, but on the other hand it will save some of
> your
> > frustration,
> > and will return its investment by saving the time you mess
> up
> > with problems.
>
> You make some good points. The Nohau emulator may indeed
> offer many advantages over the P&E debugger ..for a price.
> Notwithstanding, many users, including myself, find that the
> P&E debugger/cable offers very good value. Some people drink
> beer, and some can afford champaigne.
>
> It would be interesting to hear about users experiences with
> other debuggers and BDM modules. Maybe us beer drinkers
> should consider coolers, or even champaigne.
>
> Bfn,
>
> Bob Furber
>
> __________________________________________________________
>
> Connect your micro to the internet the easy way
> www.microcommander.com
>
> Microcontroller with an obscenity of I/O & features
> ..in a small footprint www.steroidmicros.com
> __________________________________________________________ >
> --------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > To learn more about Motorola Microcontrollers, please visit
> http://www.motorola.com/mcu





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RE: M68KIT912DP256 - James M. Knox - Jan 9 13:56:00 2003

At 09:57 AM 1/9/2003 -0800, you wrote:
>You make some good points. The Nohau emulator may indeed
>offer many advantages over the P&E debugger ..for a price.
>Notwithstanding, many users, including myself, find that the
>P&E debugger/cable offers very good value.

I think that's probably the key. There are a large number of problems with
the P&E BDM modules, some serious and some minor. Support is one of them.
[We sent them a question about four weeks ago, and never got an
answer. Fortunately, we really no longer expect one, as we have several
left over from two years ago.]

Right now our biggest problem with the P&E BDM is that it will not support
moving memory (and RAM) around on the D60A. Just crashes or hangs. Now
that we know it, we at least can work around it... but it would have been
nice to have known up front. And it would be nice to think that there
would eventually be upgrades and improvements -- get the help files fixed,
add some more command options (like being able to do a "BR
variable+nn"). But I am pretty sure P&E considers this to be a "matured"
product. I haven't seen anything change on it in years.

Still, and I sincerely believe this, the P&E BDM is a great value. For 10%
of what many of the others cost it does 90% of what they do. That makes it
an important product for many small shops, and one that I would (with
caveats) highly recommend.

jmk
-----------------------------------------------
James M. Knox
TriSoft ph 512-385-0316
1109-A Shady Lane fax 512-366-4331
Austin, Tx 78721
-----------------------------------------------



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Re: M68KIT912DP256 - Edward Karpicz - Jan 9 14:06:00 2003

Hi Bob,

About expiriences - I hate waiting 2 weeks for new chips. I hate waiting
month for tools too.
And my BDM debugger/flash burner is produced by
PICDEM_board+PIC16F876+MAX232+cables+some_houers_of_fun Ltd . There's great
support - just think about new feature or uncommon target reset driver and
you have it . Burner eats everything:
aligned/misaligned/20 and 80 bytes per line S records are equally good
programmed. Disadvantages: only D60A
and Dx128A supported but it's because nobody asked support team. I tried
NoICE with this
and it works (noice serial protocol). Edward > Hi Don,
>
> > From reading these postings, one can get the impression
> > there is only one
> > BDM emulator available for the HC12/HCS12, and it has many
> > problems, and
> > there is nothing to do about it.
>
> Actually, I believe that there are very few problems with
> the P&E debuger and debug cable and and even fewer that
> don't have a simple, inexpensive solutions. We hear about
> these problems because ..well, that is what this list is
> for.
>
> > They don't have any of the reported
> > problems here.
> > Nohau is selling a BDM for $1990, plugging to either USB,
> LPT
> > port or a
> > dedicated ISA card. Other vendors exist as well. Yes, it
> is
> > more expensive
> > than the P&E, but on the other hand it will save some of
> your
> > frustration,
> > and will return its investment by saving the time you mess
> up
> > with problems.
>
> You make some good points. The Nohau emulator may indeed
> offer many advantages over the P&E debugger ..for a price.
> Notwithstanding, many users, including myself, find that the
> P&E debugger/cable offers very good value. Some people drink
> beer, and some can afford champaigne.
>
> It would be interesting to hear about users experiences with
> other debuggers and BDM modules. Maybe us beer drinkers
> should consider coolers, or even champaigne.
>
> Bfn,
>
> Bob Furber



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Re: M68KIT912DP256 - John Hartman NoICE - Jan 9 20:06:00 2003


>Well, there are other BDM emulators for the HC12/HCS12 available in the
>market. And guess what? They don't have any of the reported problems here.
>Nohau is selling a BDM for $1990, plugging to either USB, LPT port or a

Doron is right. Here are some that have worked well for me (supported by
NoICE), all costing less than ($full featured)/10.

· Elektronikladen ComPOD12, available from MCT Elektronikladen GbR
(http://www.elektronikladen.de/noicebdm12.html)
· Technological Arts microBDM12SX, available from Technological Arts
(http://www.technologicalarts.com)
· Kevin Ross BDM12, available from Kevin Ross
(http://www.nwlink.com/~kevinro/bdm.html)
· P&E CABLE12 and MULTILINK, available from P&E Microcomputer Systems
(http://pemicro.com)
· Axiom AX-BDM12, available from Axiom Manufacturing Company
(http://www.axman.com)

The first three are serial devices. Slower than parallel port, but happy
with longer cables from the PC, and no driver voodoo or port compatibility
issues.

The parallel ports ones generally work well, but Billy G. keeps making it
harder to connect widgets to parallel ports, and has decreed the eventual
end of both parallel and serial ports on PCs.

There is a crying need for a USB BMD pod for under $300, but I don't know
of any. Has anyone else heard of one?

Best regards, John Hartman

NoICE Debugging Tools
http://www.noicedebugger.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



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Re: M68KIT912DP256 - Bruce McMillan - Jan 9 22:30:00 2003

John,
thanks for the survey.
We also need the debuggers to support the s12 PLL running faster than
8MHz. (Motorola bugs 'n all.)
cheers. Bruce

John Hartman (NoICE) wrote:

>>Well, there are other BDM emulators for the HC12/HCS12 available in the
>>market. And guess what? They don't have any of the reported problems here.
>>Nohau is selling a BDM for $1990, plugging to either USB, LPT port or a
>>
>
> Doron is right. Here are some that have worked well for me (supported by
> NoICE), all costing less than ($full featured)/10.
>
> · Elektronikladen ComPOD12, available from MCT Elektronikladen GbR
> (http://www.elektronikladen.de/noicebdm12.html)
> · Technological Arts microBDM12SX, available from Technological Arts
> (http://www.technologicalarts.com)
> · Kevin Ross BDM12, available from Kevin Ross
> (http://www.nwlink.com/~kevinro/bdm.html)
> · P&E CABLE12 and MULTILINK, available from P&E Microcomputer Systems
> (http://pemicro.com)
> · Axiom AX-BDM12, available from Axiom Manufacturing Company
> (http://www.axman.com)
>
> The first three are serial devices. Slower than parallel port, but happy
> with longer cables from the PC, and no driver voodoo or port compatibility
> issues.
>
> The parallel ports ones generally work well, but Billy G. keeps making it
> harder to connect widgets to parallel ports, and has decreed the eventual
> end of both parallel and serial ports on PCs.
>
> There is a crying need for a USB BMD pod for under $300, but I don't know
> of any. Has anyone else heard of one?
>
> Best regards, John Hartman
>
> NoICE Debugging Tools
> http://www.noicedebugger.com



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RE: M68KIT912DP256 - Author Unknown - Jan 10 7:41:00 2003

It is ridiculous that the P&E Multilink cable still requires a standard
parallel port. Throw in XP and we have not been able to get our cable to
work yet It will work under Win 98 but fails under XP even with the port
configured to use interrupts. The other issue I have with a standard
parallel port is the only one you can have is the one built on your mother
board. Under XP if you install a PCI parallel port you will be unable to
set it to the standard I/O address for the standard parallel port. This
is fine if you can dedicate your computer to every development project.
What if you need more than one BDM cable that requires a standard parallel
port. Then you have to use an A/B switch but if your pod is powered you
can damage the emulator pod or the computer if you forget to power off
between changes of port.

Rod Niner
.

Bob Furber <>
01/09/2003 12:57 PM
Please respond to 68HC12 To:
cc:
Subject: RE: [68HC12] M68KIT912DP256 Hi Don,

> From reading these postings, one can get the impression
> there is only one
> BDM emulator available for the HC12/HCS12, and it has many
> problems, and
> there is nothing to do about it.

Actually, I believe that there are very few problems with
the P&E debuger and debug cable and and even fewer that
don't have a simple, inexpensive solutions. We hear about
these problems because ..well, that is what this list is
for.

> They don't have any of the reported
> problems here.
> Nohau is selling a BDM for $1990, plugging to either USB,
LPT
> port or a
> dedicated ISA card. Other vendors exist as well. Yes, it
is
> more expensive
> than the P&E, but on the other hand it will save some of
your
> frustration,
> and will return its investment by saving the time you mess
up
> with problems.

You make some good points. The Nohau emulator may indeed
offer many advantages over the P&E debugger ..for a price.
Notwithstanding, many users, including myself, find that the
P&E debugger/cable offers very good value. Some people drink
beer, and some can afford champaigne.

It would be interesting to hear about users experiences with
other debuggers and BDM modules. Maybe us beer drinkers
should consider coolers, or even champaigne.

Bfn,

Bob Furber

__________________________________________________________

Connect your micro to the internet the easy way
www.microcommander.com

Microcontroller with an obscenity of I/O & features
..in a small footprint www.steroidmicros.com
__________________________________________________________
--------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: To learn more about Motorola Microcontrollers, please visit
http://www.motorola.com/mcu


______________________________
Stellaris® MCU Family: New Parts, New Package, New Price.


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RE: M68KIT912DP256 - Kellogg Dave - Jan 10 9:22:00 2003

Seems like most of these problems would be solved with a USB-based BDM
device. I hope that P&E is working very hard on such a device. 607-656-2597 -----Original Message-----
From: [mailto:]
Sent: Friday, January 10, 2003 7:41 AM
To:
Subject: RE: [68HC12] M68KIT912DP256 It is ridiculous that the P&E Multilink cable still requires a standard
parallel port. Throw in XP and we have not been able to get our cable to
work yet It will work under Win 98 but fails under XP even with the port
configured to use interrupts. The other issue I have with a standard
parallel port is the only one you can have is the one built on your mother
board. Under XP if you install a PCI parallel port you will be unable to
set it to the standard I/O address for the standard parallel port. This
is fine if you can dedicate your computer to every development project.
What if you need more than one BDM cable that requires a standard parallel
port. Then you have to use an A/B switch but if your pod is powered you
can damage the emulator pod or the computer if you forget to power off
between changes of port.

Rod Niner
.

Bob Furber <>
01/09/2003 12:57 PM
Please respond to 68HC12 To:
cc:
Subject: RE: [68HC12] M68KIT912DP256 Hi Don,

> From reading these postings, one can get the impression there is only
> one BDM emulator available for the HC12/HCS12, and it has many
> problems, and
> there is nothing to do about it.

Actually, I believe that there are very few problems with
the P&E debuger and debug cable and and even fewer that
don't have a simple, inexpensive solutions. We hear about
these problems because ..well, that is what this list is
for.

> They don't have any of the reported
> problems here.
> Nohau is selling a BDM for $1990, plugging to either USB,
LPT
> port or a
> dedicated ISA card. Other vendors exist as well. Yes, it
is
> more expensive
> than the P&E, but on the other hand it will save some of
your
> frustration,
> and will return its investment by saving the time you mess
up
> with problems.

You make some good points. The Nohau emulator may indeed
offer many advantages over the P&E debugger ..for a price. Notwithstanding,
many users, including myself, find that the P&E debugger/cable offers very
good value. Some people drink beer, and some can afford champaigne.

It would be interesting to hear about users experiences with other debuggers
and BDM modules. Maybe us beer drinkers should consider coolers, or even
champaigne.

Bfn,

Bob Furber

__________________________________________________________

Connect your micro to the internet the easy way
www.microcommander.com

Microcontroller with an obscenity of I/O & features
..in a small footprint www.steroidmicros.com
__________________________________________________________
--------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: To learn more about Motorola Microcontrollers, please visit
http://www.motorola.com/mcu

--------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: To learn more about Motorola Microcontrollers, please visit
http://www.motorola.com/mcu


______________________________
Stellaris® MCU Family: New Parts, New Package, New Price.


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RE: M68KIT912DP256 - Mike Burns - Jan 10 12:53:00 2003

Hi Bruce,

HCS12 parts are supposed to derive the BDM communications clock directly
from the crystal so changes in the bus speed via the PLL should have no
affect on BDM SYNC. This worked fine in earlier versions of the DP256 and I
believe it works fine in all of the other HCS12 parts.

However, MCS912DP256 (and DT256, DJ256, DG256) mask 2 (0K79X) and 3 (1K79X)
a new problem was introduced (2001) and errata was issued "BDM LOSES SYNC
WHEN USING PLL AT HIGH FREQUENCIES"
http://e-www.motorola.com/brdata/PDFDB/docs/MC9S12DP256BMSE3.pdf

As a result of this errata, both Cosmic and P&E modified their tools. The
Cosmic ZAP BDM debugger includes an option for chips with this errata that
allows transparent debugging through a PLL bus speed change. The SYNC
option has actually been in use for over a year. The debugger/cable also
work with the more standard BDM SYNC which is the default out of reset. Best Regards,
Michael Burns
Cosmic Software -----Original Message-----
From: Bruce McMillan [mailto:]
Sent: Thursday, January 09, 2003 10:31 PM
To:
Subject: Re: [68HC12] M68KIT912DP256 John,
thanks for the survey.
We also need the debuggers to support the s12 PLL running faster than
8MHz. (Motorola bugs 'n all.)
cheers. Bruce

John Hartman (NoICE) wrote:

>>Well, there are other BDM emulators for the HC12/HCS12 available in the
>>market. And guess what? They don't have any of the reported problems here.
>>Nohau is selling a BDM for $1990, plugging to either USB, LPT port or a
>>
>
> Doron is right. Here are some that have worked well for me (supported by
> NoICE), all costing less than ($full featured)/10.
>
> · Elektronikladen ComPOD12, available from MCT Elektronikladen GbR
> (http://www.elektronikladen.de/noicebdm12.html)
> · Technological Arts microBDM12SX, available from Technological Arts

> (http://www.technologicalarts.com)
> · Kevin Ross BDM12, available from Kevin Ross
> (http://www.nwlink.com/~kevinro/bdm.html)
> · P&E CABLE12 and MULTILINK, available from P&E Microcomputer
Systems
> (http://pemicro.com)
> · Axiom AX-BDM12, available from Axiom Manufacturing Company
> (http://www.axman.com)
>
> The first three are serial devices. Slower than parallel port, but happy
> with longer cables from the PC, and no driver voodoo or port compatibility

> issues.
>
> The parallel ports ones generally work well, but Billy G. keeps making it
> harder to connect widgets to parallel ports, and has decreed the eventual
> end of both parallel and serial ports on PCs.
>
> There is a crying need for a USB BMD pod for under $300, but I don't know
> of any. Has anyone else heard of one?
>
> Best regards, John Hartman
>
> NoICE Debugging Tools
> http://www.noicedebugger.com
--------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: To learn more about Motorola Microcontrollers, please visit
http://www.motorola.com/mcu




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Re: M68KIT912DP256 - Mark L. Cukier - Jan 12 10:30:00 2003

Hello to All:

I thought I'd chime in here with a few words in P&E's defense:

It is true that PCI-based parallel ports are not registered in the bios
and as such do not, by default, appear in the list of parallel ports you
can access. However P&E has written a utility, ADDLPT, which allows you
to specify where additional PCI parallel ports reside. After using this
utility, P&E applications and other third party applications should be
able to see your PCI parallel ports. P&E applications allow up to five
different parallel ports to be selected. This utility is delivered with
many P&E applications, although if you need a copy, please email me
off-list and I will send you a copy. We will also put post this utility
on our website.

It should also be noted that many of our customers, and some of our
developers, use winXP and our BDM tools with no issues whatsoever-- if
you're having problems that you can't seem to iron out, please contact
me offlist and I'll try to work through the issue with you.

Most important, however, please be aware that we are indeed working on
alternate interface BDM pods-- both USB and hopefully Ethernet as well.
These should be available towards the end of Q1 2003-- and obviously
this will eliminate these pesky parallel port issues!

Cheers,
Mark
P&E

wrote:

> It is ridiculous that the P&E Multilink cable still requires a standard
> parallel port. Throw in XP and we have not been able to get our cable to
> work yet It will work under Win 98 but fails under XP even with the
> port
> configured to use interrupts. The other issue I have with a standard
> parallel port is the only one you can have is the one built on your
> mother
> board. Under XP if you install a PCI parallel port you will be unable to
> set it to the standard I/O address for the standard parallel port. This
> is fine if you can dedicate your computer to every development project.
> What if you need more than one BDM cable that requires a standard
> parallel
> port. Then you have to use an A/B switch but if your pod is powered you
> can damage the emulator pod or the computer if you forget to power off
> between changes of port.
>
> Rod Niner
> . >
>
> Bob Furber <>
> 01/09/2003 12:57 PM
> Please respond to 68HC12 > To:
> cc:
> Subject: RE: [68HC12] M68KIT912DP256 > Hi Don,
>
> > From reading these postings, one can get the impression
> > there is only one
> > BDM emulator available for the HC12/HCS12, and it has many
> > problems, and
> > there is nothing to do about it.
>
> Actually, I believe that there are very few problems with
> the P&E debuger and debug cable and and even fewer that
> don't have a simple, inexpensive solutions. We hear about
> these problems because ..well, that is what this list is
> for.
>
> > They don't have any of the reported
> > problems here.
> > Nohau is selling a BDM for $1990, plugging to either USB,
> LPT
> > port or a
> > dedicated ISA card. Other vendors exist as well. Yes, it
> is
> > more expensive
> > than the P&E, but on the other hand it will save some of
> your
> > frustration,
> > and will return its investment by saving the time you mess
> up
> > with problems.
>
> You make some good points. The Nohau emulator may indeed
> offer many advantages over the P&E debugger ..for a price.
> Notwithstanding, many users, including myself, find that the
> P&E debugger/cable offers very good value. Some people drink
> beer, and some can afford champaigne.
>
> It would be interesting to hear about users experiences with
> other debuggers and BDM modules. Maybe us beer drinkers
> should consider coolers, or even champaigne.
>
> Bfn,
>
> Bob Furber
>
> __________________________________________________________
>
> Connect your micro to the internet the easy way
> www.microcommander.com
>
> Microcontroller with an obscenity of I/O & features
> ..in a small footprint www.steroidmicros.com
> __________________________________________________________ >
> --------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > To learn more about Motorola Microcontrollers, please visit
> http://www.motorola.com/mcu >
> --------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > To learn more about Motorola Microcontrollers, please visit
> http://www.motorola.com/mcu > >.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




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Re: M68KIT912DP256 - James M. Knox - Jan 13 10:22:00 2003

At 09:32 PM 1/12/2003 -0500, you wrote:
> The HC12 is certainly not considered a dead end by P&E!!! I suppose
>what I can say is that we do indeed have plans to release a new version
>of our software soon. Let's leave it at that for now!

Will you promise to let us know when you do? <G>

> As for some of your other comments: our current version of the
>software should have a working helpfile-- is yours not working?

As far as I have been able to tell, there is no online help file for the
current version. We patched the old IDE12W help file to work, but the only
thing I have ever been able to find for the Z version is the HTML help file
at the P&E website. When I was sent the Z version there was no help file
included or, as far as I could tell, available.

> We rigorously test ALL our software before release-- however, we
>are only human and occasionaly a minor bug may go undetected by our
>staff. If you do happen across a bug, I would encourage you to let us
>know about it.

Well, all the documentation on the "recurring interrupt" stack pointer
problem we sent you about four years or so ago would be a good start.
<G> Although I admit that it may be a tuffie, at least some
acknowledgement that it is being worked on would help.

The "slow programming" problem is still open... although we long ago
finished our project. [Has to do with the speed of the host
computer. With some targets (B32) and a SLOW host ('486) everything is
fine. Upgrade to a fast host and it can take several minutes to program
about 8K of flash.

The Windows NT printer port problem was never solved either. We finally
put together a different computer just for the host, so that we could run
with the standard LPT1: port definition.

And of course out latest problem, the hang/crash of the debugger if we
switch memory locations. [Although our e:mails went unanswered, we did
finally find an FAQ which hinted at this problem. So maybe this is a
"feature" rather than a bug. <G>]

Lastly, there is a serious tendency for the BDM pod to latch up in a
high-current mode. If this happens (and it can happen while running,
without warning, and on multiple pods), you have about 10 seconds to kill
power and save the pod -- otherwise the flash memory in the pod is
erased/corrupted. [I have seen this same problem with other B32 chips in
our own designs. The B32 is very sensitive to this.]

>We will fix them as quickly as possible, and we won't
>make you wait for a major release of the software to see the fix in
>action!!!

Let me reiterate that we **have** done a LOT of work with your pods -- some
we purchased for ourselves and some we have purchased on behalf of our
customers. I consider it an good value for the price (with certain
caveats). And I do recognize that P&E is a small company with limited
support staff.

However, it is frustrating to have a recommended method of submitting
problems (e:mail) only to have them continually go into the black hole of
never-never-land. Some fairly cheap suggestions (well, cheap from the
customers standpoint <G>):

1. Assign every problem report a number, and at least acknowledge the
e:mail with that number.

2. Put on the web site a list (preferably searchable) of all these, and a
status number (unverified, verified, not reproducible, work-around, fixed
in xxx). Something like that so that we could not only tell if our own
problems were being worked on, but could also tell if someone else had
identified something we were seeing. [Saves a lot of time if we know that
it is a real problem, and not something with our own equipment.]

3. And please... post on that web site the current version of the software.

See... customers are always willing to find work for the vendor to perform!
<G> And it would be nice (even if for a small upgrade fee) if there were
ever a new version of the IDE software that made it more ergonomic. Some
items there would be:

o Orthographic - i.e. what works in one command should work in
another. Why to I have to type in "EVAL label+offset" and then look at the
results in order to type in "BR nnnn" when I should be able to type in "BR
label+offset". Things like that.

o We have never been able to get the timing measurement feature to work
correctly.

o Have the software look for a LOCAL configuration file first. [Helpful
when more than one project is being worked on from the same host.]

We have more... but again, it *is* a very useful product and I thank you
for developing it.

jmk
-----------------------------------------------
James M. Knox
TriSoft ph 512-385-0316
1109-A Shady Lane fax 512-366-4331
Austin, Tx 78721
-----------------------------------------------




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RE: M68KIT912DP256 - Karl Lunt - Jan 13 10:31:00 2003



> -----Original Message-----
> From: James M. Knox [mailto:]
> Sent: Monday, January 13, 2003 7:23 AM
> To:
> Subject: Re: [68HC12] M68KIT912DP256
(deletia...)

> However, it is frustrating to have a recommended method of submitting
> problems (e:mail) only to have them continually go into the
> black hole of
> never-never-land. Some fairly cheap suggestions (well, cheap
> from the
> customers standpoint <G>):
>
> 1. Assign every problem report a number, and at least acknowledge the
> e:mail with that number.
>
> 2. Put on the web site a list (preferably searchable) of all
> these, and a
> status number (unverified, verified, not reproducible,
> work-around, fixed
> in xxx). Something like that so that we could not only tell
> if our own
> problems were being worked on, but could also tell if someone
> else had
> identified something we were seeing. [Saves a lot of time if
> we know that
> it is a real problem, and not something with our own equipment.] The GNU Bugzilla bug-tracking system handles this kind of stuff very well.
It might be possible to customize its report so the website can contain a
searchable file of status on each bug. Customers could not only monitor
progress of the bug fixes, but could search for similar problems in other
reports, and perhaps get a work-around or fix faster.
(deletia...)

> We have more... but again, it *is* a very useful product
> and I thank you
> for developing it.
>
> jmk >
> -----------------------------------------------
> James M. Knox
> TriSoft ph 512-385-0316
> 1109-A Shady Lane fax 512-366-4331
> Austin, Tx 78721
> -----------------------------------------------
Karl





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