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Discussion Groups | 68HC12 | Re: ***[Possible UCE]*** Re: Where to start?

Join our technical discussions about Freescale Microcontrollers: M68HC12. (Freescale Semiconductor is a Subsidiary of Motorola).

EEPROM Read and Write Access - nealskura - Mar 31 17:14:00 2004

I understand that in order to program any word or byte into EEPROM,
the sector in which it resides must first be erased. But is it true
that the erase and program process takes a full 20ms?? And that
during this time, no other access can be made to EEPROM... even
reading from another sector?

From the 9S12DP256 Device Guide, Erase Time for an EEPROM Sector is:
t = 4000 / f.nvmop where f.nvmop = 200 kHz Maximum

Certainly this must have affected other people... I have lots of fast-
loops with real deadlines and simply cannot place everything inside
timer interrupts. So now I'm considering writing an EEPROM driver
which will buffer any data to be written to EEPROM and control both
read and write accessibility...

Anyone else have a simpler idea? Have I missed something?
The EEPROM routine provided in the reference design actually stalls
for 20ms while it waits for the commands to complete. I've managed
to pipeline the Sector Modify and Program Word commands and get out
of the routine in about 4us... but any read access to EEPROM within
the 20ms produces invalid results.

Open to any ideas or interested to hear how others have handled this..

N. Skura




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Re: EEPROM Read and Write Access - Author Unknown - Mar 31 17:27:00 2004

Are you using eeprom for code or data? Is there flash rom on the board also?
Or move a relocatable 'burn a byte' function from rom to ram, jump up into
ram to burn a byte, return to flash [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




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Re: EEPROM Read and Write Access - nealskura - Mar 31 19:39:00 2004

The 9S12DP256 features:
12 kB RAM
4 kB Flash EEPROM
256 kB Flash ROM

I am using the EEPROM for data storage... Used to save user-
configurable variables [ie: thresholds and settings] and also to log
alarm or fault event data.

All code executes from the 256kB flash ROM, so its just a matter of
having the EEPROM available for reading and writing whenever I like,
as opposed to having to schedule things around this 20ms
program/erase cycle.

N. Skura

--- In , BobGardner@a... wrote:
> Are you using eeprom for code or data? Is there flash rom on the
board also?
> Or move a relocatable 'burn a byte' function from rom to ram, jump
up into
> ram to burn a byte, return to flash > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



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RE: EEPROM Read and Write Access - Longworth, Kevin - Apr 2 16:41:00 2004

I use a ram image of the contents of the EEPROM and periodicly check for
differences. If there are differences then launch the erase/program
command using a state maching , just make sure you don't check for
differences faster than 100ms or so. I use 1 sec. Any writes or reads
from appllication come from the RAM image and eventually get in the NVM.
Kevin

-----Original Message-----
From: nealskura [mailto:]
Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2004 5:14 PM
To:
Subject: [68HC12] EEPROM Read and Write Access I understand that in order to program any word or byte into EEPROM,
the sector in which it resides must first be erased. But is it true
that the erase and program process takes a full 20ms?? And that
during this time, no other access can be made to EEPROM... even
reading from another sector?

From the 9S12DP256 Device Guide, Erase Time for an EEPROM Sector is:
t = 4000 / f.nvmop where f.nvmop = 200 kHz Maximum

Certainly this must have affected other people... I have lots of fast-
loops with real deadlines and simply cannot place everything inside
timer interrupts. So now I'm considering writing an EEPROM driver
which will buffer any data to be written to EEPROM and control both
read and write accessibility...

Anyone else have a simpler idea? Have I missed something?
The EEPROM routine provided in the reference design actually stalls
for 20ms while it waits for the commands to complete. I've managed
to pipeline the Sector Modify and Program Word commands and get out
of the routine in about 4us... but any read access to EEPROM within
the 20ms produces invalid results.

Open to any ideas or interested to hear how others have handled this..

N. Skura
--------------------------------------------------------To learn more
about Motorola Microcontrollers, please visit
http://www.motorola.com/mcu
o learn more about Motorola Microcontrollers, please visit
http://www.motorola.com/mcu

Yahoo! Groups Sponsor

ADVERTISEMENT

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roupweb/S=1706554205:HM/EXP=1080857719/A=1945637/R=0/SIG=11tfh3gpg/*http
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




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RE: EEPROM Read and Write Access - John Theofanopoulos - Apr 5 9:54:00 2004

If you can get away with it, why not write to EEPROM before shutting
down?

That way, on startup you load your eeprom values to RAM and prior to
shutdown you copy the contents of RAM over to EEPROM, so the EEPROM
delay never comes into play during operation.

John -----Original Message-----
From: Longworth, Kevin [mailto:]
Sent: Friday, April 02, 2004 4:41 PM
To:
Subject: RE: [68HC12] EEPROM Read and Write Access I use a ram image of the contents of the EEPROM and periodicly check for
differences. If there are differences then launch the erase/program
command using a state maching , just make sure you don't check for
differences faster than 100ms or so. I use 1 sec. Any writes or reads
from appllication come from the RAM image and eventually get in the NVM.
Kevin

-----Original Message-----
From: nealskura [mailto:]
Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2004 5:14 PM
To:
Subject: [68HC12] EEPROM Read and Write Access I understand that in order to program any word or byte into EEPROM,
the sector in which it resides must first be erased. But is it true
that the erase and program process takes a full 20ms?? And that
during this time, no other access can be made to EEPROM... even
reading from another sector?

>From the 9S12DP256 Device Guide, Erase Time for an EEPROM Sector is:
t = 4000 / f.nvmop where f.nvmop = 200 kHz Maximum

Certainly this must have affected other people... I have lots of fast-
loops with real deadlines and simply cannot place everything inside
timer interrupts. So now I'm considering writing an EEPROM driver
which will buffer any data to be written to EEPROM and control both
read and write accessibility...

Anyone else have a simpler idea? Have I missed something?
The EEPROM routine provided in the reference design actually stalls
for 20ms while it waits for the commands to complete. I've managed
to pipeline the Sector Modify and Program Word commands and get out
of the routine in about 4us... but any read access to EEPROM within
the 20ms produces invalid results.

Open to any ideas or interested to hear how others have handled this..

N. Skura
--------------------------------------------------------To learn more
about Motorola Microcontrollers, please visit
http://www.motorola.com/mcu o learn more about Motorola
Microcontrollers, please visit http://www.motorola.com/mcu

Yahoo! Groups Sponsor

ADVERTISEMENT

<http://rd.yahoo.com/SIG=12ca8qu6k/M=267637.4673018.5833253.1261774/D=eg
roupweb/S=1706554205:HM/EXP=1080857719/A=1945637/R=0/SIG=11tfh3gpg/*http
://www.netflix.com/Default?mqso=60178397&partid=4673018> click here

<http://us.adserver.yahoo.com/l?M=267637.4673018.5833253.1261774/D=egrou
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> .

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

--------------------------------------------------------To learn more
about Motorola Microcontrollers, please visit
http://www.motorola.com/mcu o learn more about Motorola
Microcontrollers, please visit http://www.motorola.com/mcu

Yahoo! Groups Links




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Re: EEPROM Read and Write Access - Stephen Trier - Apr 5 10:38:00 2004

Neal,

Buffering in RAM is also a good idea because of the EEPROM endurance
spec. You might find that if you wrote to the EEPROM on every pass
through a tight loop, the lifetime of your equipment would become
limited by the EEPROM wearing out. That's why it's common to buffer
the rapidly-updated data in RAM and flush it out periodically or at
powerdown.

For example, if some code wrote to a 812A4 EEPROM location at
the minimum interval of 20 ms, it might wear out in 30000 cycles
(typical), which is 10 minutes. Ouch!

The 9S12DP256 uses a different EEPROM technology, so the endurance
spec may well be different (better?), but you get the idea.

Stephen

--
Stephen Trier
Technical Development Lab
Cleveland FES Center / CWRU
/ KG8IH




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Re: EEPROM Read and Write Access - Sydney Faria - Apr 5 16:32:00 2004

Have you considered an external serial eprom device?
----- Original Message -----
From: John Theofanopoulos
To:
Sent: Monday, April 05, 2004 10:54 AM
Subject: RE: [68HC12] EEPROM Read and Write Access If you can get away with it, why not write to EEPROM before shutting
down?

That way, on startup you load your eeprom values to RAM and prior to
shutdown you copy the contents of RAM over to EEPROM, so the EEPROM
delay never comes into play during operation.

John -----Original Message-----
From: Longworth, Kevin [mailto:]
Sent: Friday, April 02, 2004 4:41 PM
To:
Subject: RE: [68HC12] EEPROM Read and Write Access I use a ram image of the contents of the EEPROM and periodicly check for
differences. If there are differences then launch the erase/program
command using a state maching , just make sure you don't check for
differences faster than 100ms or so. I use 1 sec. Any writes or reads
from appllication come from the RAM image and eventually get in the NVM.
Kevin

-----Original Message-----
From: nealskura [mailto:]
Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2004 5:14 PM
To:
Subject: [68HC12] EEPROM Read and Write Access I understand that in order to program any word or byte into EEPROM,
the sector in which it resides must first be erased. But is it true
that the erase and program process takes a full 20ms?? And that
during this time, no other access can be made to EEPROM... even
reading from another sector?

>From the 9S12DP256 Device Guide, Erase Time for an EEPROM Sector is:
t = 4000 / f.nvmop where f.nvmop = 200 kHz Maximum

Certainly this must have affected other people... I have lots of fast-
loops with real deadlines and simply cannot place everything inside
timer interrupts. So now I'm considering writing an EEPROM driver
which will buffer any data to be written to EEPROM and control both
read and write accessibility...

Anyone else have a simpler idea? Have I missed something?
The EEPROM routine provided in the reference design actually stalls
for 20ms while it waits for the commands to complete. I've managed
to pipeline the Sector Modify and Program Word commands and get out
of the routine in about 4us... but any read access to EEPROM within
the 20ms produces invalid results.

Open to any ideas or interested to hear how others have handled this..

N. Skura
--------------------------------------------------------To learn more
about Motorola Microcontrollers, please visit
http://www.motorola.com/mcu o learn more about Motorola
Microcontrollers, please visit http://www.motorola.com/mcu

Yahoo! Groups Sponsor

ADVERTISEMENT

<http://rd.yahoo.com/SIG=12ca8qu6k/M=267637.4673018.5833253.1261774/D=eg
roupweb/S=1706554205:HM/EXP=1080857719/A=1945637/R=0/SIG=11tfh3gpg/*http
://www.netflix.com/Default?mqso=60178397&partid=4673018> click here

<http://us.adserver.yahoo.com/l?M=267637.4673018.5833253.1261774/D=egrou
pweb/S=:HM/A=1945637/rand=472545690 _____

> .

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

--------------------------------------------------------To learn more
about Motorola Microcontrollers, please visit
http://www.motorola.com/mcu o learn more about Motorola
Microcontrollers, please visit http://www.motorola.com/mcu

Yahoo! Groups Links

--------------------------------------------------------To learn more
about Motorola Microcontrollers, please visit
http://www.motorola.com/mcu
o learn more about Motorola Microcontrollers, please visit
http://www.motorola.com/mcu
Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
ADVERTISEMENT ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
--
Yahoo! Groups Links

a.. To
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




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Re: EEPROM Read and Write Access - Gary Olmstead - Apr 6 0:05:00 2004

At 02:32 PM 4/5/04, you wrote:
>Have you considered an external serial eprom device?

Considering that the original problem was that the writes take too long, a
serial device doesn't immediately sound like an improvement.

Gary Olmstead
Toucan Technology
Ventura CA




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Where to start? - Kerrie Thornton - Apr 6 6:40:00 2004

I'm want to learn about microcontrollers and I'm wondering where to
start. I presume that I need a development board and the interface to
a pc, software to run it, and a programming environment. I'm choosing
the HC12 as I design PCB's and most of my clients use the Motorola
range. Suggestions and opinions please...

Kerrie.
**********************
Kerrie Thornton
TDE Ltd.
46 Albany Road,
Harrogate,
North Yorkshire,
HG1 4NS.
UK
Tel/Fax: (+44) 0 1423 503457
Mobile: (+44) 0 7711 345782
Email:

This email is confidential and should
not be used/viewed by anyone who is
not the original intended recipient.
TDE Limited cannot accept liability
for any statements made which are
clearly the sender's own and not
expressly made on behalf of TDE
Limited or one of its agents.
**********************





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Re: Where to start? - Mike Elphick - Apr 6 7:57:00 2004

Kerrie,

Your first requirement is a project. Forget about learning
microcontrollers - that will happen along the way - most important is a good
project that you are intent on seeing to completion. Actually if you have
a really good project you will find that it never finishes, as there are
always improvements to make and new chips to port it to..... It looks as if
you can make your own boards too!

For good hardware and software selection at reasonable prices try
www.technologicalarts.com

Mike

> I'm want to learn about microcontrollers and I'm wondering where to
> start. I presume that I need a development board and the interface to
> a pc, software to run it, and a programming environment. I'm choosing
> the HC12 as I design PCB's and most of my clients use the Motorola
> range. Suggestions and opinions please...
>
> Kerrie.
> **********************
> Kerrie Thornton
> TDE Ltd.
> 46 Albany Road,
> Harrogate,
> North Yorkshire,
> HG1 4NS.
> UK
> Tel/Fax: (+44) 0 1423 503457
> Mobile: (+44) 0 7711 345782
> Email:
>
> This email is confidential and should
> not be used/viewed by anyone who is
> not the original intended recipient.
> TDE Limited cannot accept liability
> for any statements made which are
> clearly the sender's own and not
> expressly made on behalf of TDE
> Limited or one of its agents.
> ********************** >
>
> --------------------------------------------------------To learn more
about Motorola Microcontrollers, please visit
> http://www.motorola.com/mcu
> o learn more about Motorola Microcontrollers, please visit
> http://www.motorola.com/mcu >
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
------
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
> a.. To






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Re: Where to start? - Kerrie Thornton - Apr 6 8:37:00 2004

Confused? How do you pick the chip for the job? There are loads of
eval boards out there. I looked at Axiom, Elektonikladen and
Technological Arts. Now I'm really confused. Too much choice. My
project is automotive based as I build rally cars for fun and most of
my design work is for the automotive industry. I'd like to build an
ignition controller for wasted spark. I only need 2 inputs, which
both require a certain level of signal conditioning, which I guess
goes on the breadboard, and enough outputs to control the external
ignition amps and supply a tacho signal. I imagine I need quite
accurate timing and a reasonably quick mcu to keep on top of things.
I don't know how you guys pick the amount of memory required for your
program before the program is written. I would like to be able to
change the settings of the system whilst an engine is running and
also to be able to watch what's going in real time. I think I'm going
to have to learn how to make a pc based front end as well.

Kerrie.
**********************
Kerrie Thornton
TDE Ltd.
46 Albany Road,
Harrogate,
North Yorkshire,
HG1 4NS.
UK
Tel/Fax: (+44) 0 1423 503457
Mobile: (+44) 0 7711 345782
Email:

This email is confidential and should
not be used/viewed by anyone who is
not the original intended recipient.
TDE Limited cannot accept liability
for any statements made which are
clearly the sender's own and not
expressly made on behalf of TDE
Limited or one of its agents.
**********************





(You need to be a member of 68hc12 -- send a blank email to 68hc12-subscribe@yahoogroups.com )

Re: Where to start? - Andrei Chichak - Apr 6 10:16:00 2004


>Now I'm really confused. Too much choice. My
>project is automotive based as I build rally cars for fun and most of
>my design work is for the automotive industry. I'd like to build an
>ignition controller for wasted spark. I only need 2 inputs, which
>both require a certain level of signal conditioning, which I guess
>goes on the breadboard, and enough outputs to control the external
>ignition amps and supply a tacho signal. I imagine I need quite
>accurate timing and a reasonably quick mcu to keep on top of things.
>I don't know how you guys pick the amount of memory required for your
>program before the program is written. I would like to be able to
>change the settings of the system whilst an engine is running and
>also to be able to watch what's going in real time. I think I'm going
>to have to learn how to make a pc based front end as well. Look up the EFI332 project. (How's that for a cryptic reference?)

Andrei




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Re: Where to start? - zeta_alpha2002 - Apr 6 10:34:00 2004

> Technological Arts. Now I'm really confused. Too much choice. My
> project is automotive based as I build rally cars for fun and most
of
> my design work is for the automotive industry. I'd like to build an
> ignition controller for wasted spark.

Check this link..
http://www.bgsoflex.com/megasquirt.html
http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/megasquirt/




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RE: ***[Possible UCE]*** Re: Where to start? - Nigel Johnson - Apr 6 10:49:00 2004

Hi Kerry,

You might try joining the megasquirt list. You can access it from their
web site at http://www.bgsoflex.com/megasquirt.html Megasquirt is a fuel-injection system that people are building. Someone
came into our office last week and intriduced us to it - they are
experimenting with our boards to see if they can upgrade the original
design. I realise it is different to fuel injection, but you'll find a
lot of people there that speaj your language!

Cheers,

Nigel Johnson
MCSE, MIEEE
VE3ID/G4AJQ

New address effective 2003 10 27:

Technological Arts Inc.
533 College Street, Suite #301
Toronto, Ontario, Canada,
M6G 1A8

Phone +1(416)963-8996 Extension 112
Fax: +1(416)963-9179

Toll-Free in USA and Canada (877)963-8996 > -----Original Message-----
> From: Kerrie Thornton [mailto:]
> Sent: Tuesday, April 06, 2004 9:38 AM
> To:
> Subject: ***[Possible UCE]*** Re: [68HC12] Where to start? > Confused? How do you pick the chip for the job? There are loads of
> eval boards out there. I looked at Axiom, Elektonikladen and
> Technological Arts. Now I'm really confused. Too much choice. My
> project is automotive based as I build rally cars for fun and most of
> my design work is for the automotive industry. I'd like to build an
> ignition controller for wasted spark. I only need 2 inputs, which
> both require a certain level of signal conditioning, which I guess
> goes on the breadboard, and enough outputs to control the external
> ignition amps and supply a tacho signal. I imagine I need quite
> accurate timing and a reasonably quick mcu to keep on top of things.
> I don't know how you guys pick the amount of memory required for your
> program before the program is written. I would like to be able to
> change the settings of the system whilst an engine is running and
> also to be able to watch what's going in real time. I think I'm going
> to have to learn how to make a pc based front end as well.
>
> Kerrie.
> **********************
> Kerrie Thornton
> TDE Ltd.
> 46 Albany Road,
> Harrogate,
> North Yorkshire,
> HG1 4NS.
> UK
> Tel/Fax: (+44) 0 1423 503457
> Mobile: (+44) 0 7711 345782
> Email:
>
> This email is confidential and should
> not be used/viewed by anyone who is
> not the original intended recipient.
> TDE Limited cannot accept liability
> for any statements made which are
> clearly the sender's own and not
> expressly made on behalf of TDE
> Limited or one of its agents.
> ********************** >
>
> --------------------------------------------------------To
> learn more about Motorola Microcontrollers, please visit
http://www.motorola.com/mcu o learn more about Motorola
Microcontrollers, please visit http://www.motorola.com/mcu

Yahoo! Groups Links





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Re: Where to start? - Kerrie Thornton - Apr 6 10:51:00 2004

Already been there (EFI332 and megasquirt). Wasn't sure whether they
were good starting points or not.

Kerrie.
**********************
Kerrie Thornton
TDE Ltd.
46 Albany Road,
Harrogate,
North Yorkshire,
HG1 4NS.
UK
Tel/Fax: (+44) 0 1423 503457
Mobile: (+44) 0 7711 345782
Email:

This email is confidential and should
not be used/viewed by anyone who is
not the original intended recipient.
TDE Limited cannot accept liability
for any statements made which are
clearly the sender's own and not
expressly made on behalf of TDE
Limited or one of its agents.
**********************




(You need to be a member of 68hc12 -- send a blank email to 68hc12-subscribe@yahoogroups.com )

Re: Where to start? - ra - Apr 6 16:59:00 2004

Hello Kerrie,

This kit from Softec which was recently mentioned in this group sounds like a good beginning, with the free evaluation license for the Metrowerks Codewarrior and a built-in usb link so you don't need a separate interface to the pc:

http://www.softecmicro.com/products.html?type=detail&title=PK-HCS12E128
($49.00)

Otherwise, the next better step is a faster programming device like the USB-MultiLink from PE-Micro for around 200 $.

Both of these work with the Codewarrior's debugger.

I don't have any experience with other product, but NoIce has had great reviews as a debugger for 79 $.

Otherwise, for the high-end stuff in the thousands $ there is Nohau and others with in-circuit emulators offering tracing and other sophisticated features ...

Best regards
Robert >
>I'm want to learn about microcontrollers and I'm wondering where to
>start. I presume that I need a development board and the interface to
>a pc, software to run it, and a programming environment. I'm choosing
>the HC12 as I design PCB's and most of my clients use the Motorola
>range. Suggestions and opinions please...
>
>Kerrie.
>**********************
>Kerrie Thornton
>TDE Ltd.
>46 Albany Road,
>Harrogate,
>North Yorkshire,
>HG1 4NS.
>UK
>Tel/Fax: (+44) 0 1423 503457
>Mobile: (+44) 0 7711 345782
>Email:
>
>This email is confidential and should
>not be used/viewed by anyone who is
>not the original intended recipient.
>TDE Limited cannot accept liability
>for any statements made which are
>clearly the sender's own and not
>expressly made on behalf of TDE
>Limited or one of its agents.
>********************** >--------------------------------------------------------To learn more about Motorola Microcontrollers, please visit
>http://www.motorola.com/mcu
>o learn more about Motorola Microcontrollers, please visit
>http://www.motorola.com/mcu
>
>Yahoo! Groups Links >
>
>.




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Re: Where to start? - softec_micro - Apr 7 2:47:00 2004

Hello everyone,
the PK-HCS12E128 is a good kit to start, but if you need a real
debugger/programmer that supports the whole HCS12 family have a look
at inDART-HCS12. It is interfaced to the PC by USB and connects to
the target device through a standard BDM connector. It is available
as debugger/programmer only, or it comes together with evaluation
board.
For more info visit our web site:

www.softecmicro.com

Regards,

Andrea --- In , "ra" <swar@c...> wrote:
> Hello Kerrie,
>
> This kit from Softec which was recently mentioned in this group
sounds like a good beginning, with the free evaluation license for
the Metrowerks Codewarrior and a built-in usb link so you don't need
a separate interface to the pc:
>
> http://www.softecmicro.com/products.html?type=detail&title=PK-
HCS12E128
> ($49.00)
>
> Otherwise, the next better step is a faster programming device
like the USB-MultiLink from PE-Micro for around 200 $.
>
> Both of these work with the Codewarrior's debugger.
>
> I don't have any experience with other product, but NoIce has had
great reviews as a debugger for 79 $.
>
> Otherwise, for the high-end stuff in the thousands $ there is
Nohau and others with in-circuit emulators offering tracing and
other sophisticated features ...
>
> Best regards
> Robert > >
> >I'm want to learn about microcontrollers and I'm wondering where
to
> >start. I presume that I need a development board and the
interface to
> >a pc, software to run it, and a programming environment. I'm
choosing
> >the HC12 as I design PCB's and most of my clients use the
Motorola
> >range. Suggestions and opinions please...
> >
> >Kerrie.
> >**********************
> >Kerrie Thornton
> >TDE Ltd.
> >46 Albany Road,
> >Harrogate,
> >North Yorkshire,
> >HG1 4NS.
> >UK
> >Tel/Fax: (+44) 0 1423 503457
> >Mobile: (+44) 0 7711 345782
> >Email: kerrie@t...
> >
> >This email is confidential and should
> >not be used/viewed by anyone who is
> >not the original intended recipient.
> >TDE Limited cannot accept liability
> >for any statements made which are
> >clearly the sender's own and not
> >expressly made on behalf of TDE
> >Limited or one of its agents.
> >**********************
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >--------------------------------------------------------To learn
more about Motorola Microcontrollers, please visit
> >http://www.motorola.com/mcu
> >o learn more about Motorola Microcontrollers, please visit
> >http://www.motorola.com/mcu
> >
> >Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >.




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Re: Where to start? - Doron Fael - Apr 7 5:14:00 2004

Kerrie,

You work with the automotive industry, so it might be useful to use the
same parts and tools (compiler, debugger) as your automotive customers and
colleagues. In this way it will be easy to discuss and port your project to
the tools of your customers, if you think you may need to (this is often
the case in my experience).

In regard to choosing parts, I can recommend the MC9S12D family, which is
the most common HCS12 family used in automotive applications. This family
has 5 different densities of 512KByte, 256KByte, 128KByte, 64KByte and
32KByte of Flash, all very similar to each other in similar pinouts (112
pin and 80 pin), and similar register map and peripherals. The parts of
this family are widely available, and can be easily purchased (which is not
always the case with other - HCS12 families). You can easily port your code
from one density to the other, when you need to.

Other HCS12 families which are used in automotive applications are:

MC9S12B family - lower cost family, pin compatible to the MC9S12D family,
comes in 112 pin and 80 pin packages, and has a single CAN port. Currently
offer two Flash densities of 128KByte and 64KByte. A 256K Flash version is
planned. This family works at both 5V and 3.3V.

MC9S12C family - lower cost and lower pin-counts. Available in 48 pin, 52
pin and 80 pin packages. Offers 4 Flash densities of 128KByte, 96KByte,
64KByte and 32KByte. Can run on either 5V or 3.3V.

MC9S12K family - pin compatible to the MC9S12D family (112 pin and 80 pin
packages). Includes ECC Flash - Hardware Flash Error detection and
correction - useful for high reliability applications, that require very
high flash reliability, so even if a bit in Flash wears out, the silicon
will detect the failure and decode in real time the correct Flash value to
be presented to the HCS12 MCU.

There are also HC12 old Generation parts that run to lower bus speed of
8MHz, but they are older technology and less recommended for new designs.

Hope this helps,
Doron
Nohau Corporation
HC12 In-Circuit Emulators
www.nohau.com/emul12pc.html

At 14:37 06/04/2004 +0100, you wrote:
>Confused? How do you pick the chip for the job? There are loads of
>eval boards out there. I looked at Axiom, Elektonikladen and
>Technological Arts. Now I'm really confused. Too much choice. My
>project is automotive based as I build rally cars for fun and most of
>my design work is for the automotive industry. I'd like to build an
>ignition controller for wasted spark. I only need 2 inputs, which
>both require a certain level of signal conditioning, which I guess
>goes on the breadboard, and enough outputs to control the external
>ignition amps and supply a tacho signal. I imagine I need quite
>accurate timing and a reasonably quick mcu to keep on top of things.
>I don't know how you guys pick the amount of memory required for your
>program before the program is written. I would like to be able to
>change the settings of the system whilst an engine is running and
>also to be able to watch what's going in real time. I think I'm going
>to have to learn how to make a pc based front end as well.
>
>Kerrie.
>**********************
>Kerrie Thornton
>TDE Ltd.
>46 Albany Road,
>Harrogate,
>North Yorkshire,
>HG1 4NS.
>UK
>Tel/Fax: (+44) 0 1423 503457
>Mobile: (+44) 0 7711 345782
>Email:
>
>This email is confidential and should
>not be used/viewed by anyone who is
>not the original intended recipient.
>TDE Limited cannot accept liability
>for any statements made which are
>clearly the sender's own and not
>expressly made on behalf of TDE
>Limited or one of its agents.
>********************** [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



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Re: Re: Where to start? - Oliver Betz - Apr 7 6:02:00 2004

softec_micro <> wrote:

> the PK-HCS12E128 is a good kit to start, but if you need a real
> debugger/programmer that supports the whole HCS12 family have a look
> at inDART-HCS12. It is interfaced to the PC by USB and connects to the

Andrea, you didn't answer my question dated 2004-04-01:

>> The USB Low Speed issue is not a big limitation. With the PK-
>> HCS12C32 Starter Kit programming 32K of FLASH takes about 35sec.
>
>really less than 1KByte/second?

If inDART-HCS12 really programs Flash so slow, it will be rather
annoying when code size grows.

But I guess it was a typo, was it?

Oliver
--
Oliver Betz, Muenchen




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Re: Re: Where to start? - Robert Imhoff - Apr 7 8:04:00 2004

Hi Oliver

The slow times are on the 49 $ HCS12C32-starterkit -- the inDART-HCS12
is the fast solution for 490 $!

On this vein, wonder what advantages the inDART-HCS12 has over the
PE-Micro USB-Multilink which does the same for 200 $?

Best regards
Robert

On Apr 7, 2004, at 1:02 PM, Oliver Betz wrote: > softec_micro <> wrote:
>
>> the PK-HCS12E128 is a good kit to start, but if you need a real
>> debugger/programmer that supports the whole HCS12 family have a look
>> at inDART-HCS12. It is interfaced to the PC by USB and connects to the
>
> Andrea, you didn't answer my question dated 2004-04-01:
>
>>> The USB Low Speed issue is not a big limitation. With the PK-
>>> HCS12C32 Starter Kit programming 32K of FLASH takes about 35sec.
>>
>> really less than 1KByte/second?
>
> If inDART-HCS12 really programs Flash so slow, it will be rather
> annoying when code size grows.
>
> But I guess it was a typo, was it?
>
> Oliver
> --
> Oliver Betz, Muenchen >
> ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
> ---------------------~-->
> Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark
> Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US &
> Canada.
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> http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/dN_tlB/TM
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> ~->
>
> --------------------------------------------------------To learn more
> about Motorola Microcontrollers, please visit
> http://www.motorola.com/mcu
> o learn more about Motorola Microcontrollers, please visit
> http://www.motorola.com/mcu
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links






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Re: EEPROM Read and Write Access - nealskura - Apr 7 10:46:00 2004

Stephen,

Thanks for the advice. The EEPROM is not involved in my tight loops,
but rather the problem was that while the software was stuck in an
Erase/Program cycle for 20ms, many of my other tasks were not being
attended to.

My most critical code is inside a timer interrupt, and executes every
100 - 400us, so this was not affected. But I have other tasks, which
due to driver issues, must remain in the background loop, and must
execute approximately every 1ms.

For now, I am mirroring all my EEPROM variables into RAM, and will
use a RAM buffer to Erase/Program the EEPROM in an organized manner
and thus eliminate the 20ms "wait-for-command-to-finish".

Neal.

--- In , Stephen Trier <sct@p...> wrote:
> Neal,
>
> Buffering in RAM is also a good idea because of the EEPROM endurance
> spec. You might find that if you wrote to the EEPROM on every pass
> through a tight loop, the lifetime of your equipment would become
> limited by the EEPROM wearing out. That's why it's common to buffer
> the rapidly-updated data in RAM and flush it out periodically or at
> powerdown.
>
> For example, if some code wrote to a 812A4 EEPROM location at
> the minimum interval of 20 ms, it might wear out in 30000 cycles
> (typical), which is 10 minutes. Ouch!
>
> The 9S12DP256 uses a different EEPROM technology, so the endurance
> spec may well be different (better?), but you get the idea.
>
> Stephen
>
> --
> Stephen Trier
> Technical Development Lab
> Cleveland FES Center / CWRU
> sct@p... / KG8IH



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Re: Where to start? - softec_micro - Apr 7 10:50:00 2004

You are right, the inDART-HCS12 solution is much faster than the PK-
HCS12 series. The USB connection is a full speed one and during the
program process the target device frequency is raised to the maximum
speed using its internal PLL.

inDART-HCS12/D (means debugger/programmer, cables, software and
manuals) costs $449. If you prefer to have an evaluation board also,
then the price rises to $499.

inDART-HCS12 comes together with DataBlaze which is the programming
user interface, no other costs added (P&E does not do this).
The hardware has the ECLK connector which can be plugged to the
target microcontroller ECLK signal. ECLK is the device's bus clock
and inDART-HCS12 uses it to detect the communication speed. This is
useful when the internal frequency changes (for example because the
PLL gets enabled) to guarantee a stable communication between target
and debugger.

Examples for CodeWarrior are installed by inDART setup, if you get a
design kit which includes eval. board, starting up will take less
than 5 min.

Regards,

Andrea --- In , Robert Imhoff <swar@c...> wrote:
> Hi Oliver
>
> The slow times are on the 49 $ HCS12C32-starterkit -- the inDART-
HCS12
> is the fast solution for 490 $!
>
> On this vein, wonder what advantages the inDART-HCS12 has over
the
> PE-Micro USB-Multilink which does the same for 200 $?
>
> Best regards
> Robert
>
> On Apr 7, 2004, at 1:02 PM, Oliver Betz wrote:
>
> >
> > softec_micro <amuraro@s...> wrote:
> >
> >> the PK-HCS12E128 is a good kit to start, but if you need a real
> >> debugger/programmer that supports the whole HCS12 family have a
look
> >> at inDART-HCS12. It is interfaced to the PC by USB and connects
to the
> >
> > Andrea, you didn't answer my question dated 2004-04-01:
> >
> >>> The USB Low Speed issue is not a big limitation. With the PK-
> >>> HCS12C32 Starter Kit programming 32K of FLASH takes about
35sec.
> >>
> >> really less than 1KByte/second?
> >
> > If inDART-HCS12 really programs Flash so slow, it will be rather
> > annoying when code size grows.
> >
> > But I guess it was a typo, was it?
> >
> > Oliver
> > --
> > Oliver Betz, Muenchen
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
> > ---------------------~-->
> > Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or
Lexmark
> > Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US
&
> > Canada.
> > http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511
> > http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/dN_tlB/TM
> > -----------------------------------------------------------------
----
> > ~->
> >
> > --------------------------------------------------------To learn
more
> > about Motorola Microcontrollers, please visit
> > http://www.motorola.com/mcu
> > o learn more about Motorola Microcontrollers, please visit
> > http://www.motorola.com/mcu
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
>




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Re: Re: Where to start? - Oliver Betz - Apr 8 5:42:00 2004

"softec_micro" <> wrote:

[...]

> The hardware has the ECLK connector which can be plugged to the
> target microcontroller ECLK signal. ECLK is the device's bus clock

"can" means that I don't _need_ to use ECLK?

Although this feature is very useful, the debugger should work also
without it, if the user fills the correct values of the bus clock
after the program has been started.

Oliver
--
Oliver Betz, Muenchen



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Re: ***[Possible UCE]*** Re: Where to start? - Sydney Faria - Apr 9 8:02:00 2004

I lot of very good info has been posted for Kerry & I will add my $.02.
Since you are just starting out you will need help, which means that there
will be a need for example code and good books to use, so let me tell you
that at the www.axman.com (Axiom) site there is a listing of many books on
this subject. I recommendation is that you check out ISBN 0-7668-83448-4 by
Huang. I say this because it has extensive working examples on all facets
of 68hc12 programming in asm and in C. The book covers differences in the
A4, B32, and D60 series, talks about the ECT module as well as the standard
timer module, and has a great chapter on msCAN with example code. The
automotive industry seems to be using quite a lot of CAN since it is a
real-time communications system. I have done a CAN project with the D60 and
could not have done so without this book. As an extra plus, this book also
has chapters on the Axiom development boards (which is great if you are
using Axiom - we are) and the inner workings of the BDM as well as how to
call the predefined mon functions, etc, etc.
I have also a high recommendation for the Valvano books (see the Univ of
Texas site where there is more info on these books). He shows several
techniques no one else has talked about; for example, how to set up a FIFO
queue with atomic access, which I found extremely useful for my present,
real-time project using CAN message queues. The weakness of his book seems
to be that he tries to cover several different series: 68HC12, 68HC11,
68HC05, etc. There is one more really great book on this subject that is
only written for C/C++ programming, and this one covers subjects like why
you have to write a 1 to clear a flag bit in some registers, and things like
the gadfly technique along with the pros and cons of each technique. There
are some really horrible books on this subject but I would place these three
at the absolute top of the list!
One other thing to mention about just starting up: no matter what
development system you go with, you WILL find out that there is a question
you need an answer to from the supplier of the development board. To that
end I definately have become a huge fan of Axiom since I have called and
talked in person to technical help people many, many times and have sent
email in the morning and received a reply that afternoon. I have used there
A4, B32, DP256, and D60A development boards - they are all quite reliable.
I bought the package that comes with the AXBDM IDE development system, the
keypad, the LCD, AXBDM12A adapter, and the assembler. (Say you are a student
for a 10% discount) I have seen some of these boards sold used....
The Motorola site also has many application notes which have helpful hints
and example code snippets.
Sydney
----- Original Message -----
From: Nigel Johnson
To:
Sent: Tuesday, April 06, 2004 11:49 AM
Subject: RE: ***[Possible UCE]*** Re: [68HC12] Where to start? Hi Kerry,

You might try joining the megasquirt list. You can access it from their
web site at http://www.bgsoflex.com/megasquirt.html Megasquirt is a fuel-injection system that people are building. Someone
came into our office last week and intriduced us to it - they are
experimenting with our boards to see if they can upgrade the original
design. I realise it is different to fuel injection, but you'll find a
lot of people there that speaj your language!

Cheers,

Nigel Johnson
MCSE, MIEEE
VE3ID/G4AJQ

New address effective 2003 10 27:

Technological Arts Inc.
533 College Street, Suite #301
Toronto, Ontario, Canada,
M6G 1A8

Phone +1(416)963-8996 Extension 112
Fax: +1(416)963-9179

Toll-Free in USA and Canada (877)963-8996 > -----Original Message-----
> From: Kerrie Thornton [mailto:]
> Sent: Tuesday, April 06, 2004 9:38 AM
> To:
> Subject: ***[Possible UCE]*** Re: [68HC12] Where to start? > Confused? How do you pick the chip for the job? There are loads of
> eval boards out there. I looked at Axiom, Elektonikladen and
> Technological Arts. Now I'm really confused. Too much choice. My
> project is automotive based as I build rally cars for fun and most of
> my design work is for the automotive industry. I'd like to build an
> ignition controller for wasted spark. I only need 2 inputs, which
> both require a certain level of signal conditioning, which I guess
> goes on the breadboard, and enough outputs to control the external
> ignition amps and supply a tacho signal. I imagine I need quite
> accurate timing and a reasonably quick mcu to keep on top of things.
> I don't know how you guys pick the amount of memory required for your
> program before the program is written. I would like to be able to
> change the settings of the system whilst an engine is running and
> also to be able to watch what's going in real time. I think I'm going
> to have to learn how to make a pc based front end as well.
>
> Kerrie.
> **********************
> Kerrie Thornton
> TDE Ltd.
> 46 Albany Road,
> Harrogate,
> North Yorkshire,
> HG1 4NS.
> UK
> Tel/Fax: (+44) 0 1423 503457
> Mobile: (+44) 0 7711 345782
> Email:
>
> This email is confidential and should
> not be used/viewed by anyone who is
> not the original intended recipient.
> TDE Limited cannot accept liability
> for any statements made which are
> clearly the sender's own and not
> expressly made on behalf of TDE
> Limited or one of its agents.
> ********************** >
>
> --------------------------------------------------------To
> learn more about Motorola Microcontrollers, please visit
http://www.motorola.com/mcu o learn more about Motorola
Microcontrollers, please visit http://www.motorola.com/mcu

Yahoo! Groups Links

--------------------------------------------------------To learn more
about Motorola Microcontrollers, please visit
http://www.motorola.com/mcu
o learn more about Motorola Microcontrollers, please visit
http://www.motorola.com/mcu
Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
ADVERTISEMENT ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
--
Yahoo! Groups Links

a.. To
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



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RE: ***[Possible UCE]*** Re: Where to start? - Kellogg Dave - Apr 9 9:45:00 2004

Hi Sydney--

You wrote:
68HC05, etc. There is one more really great book on this subject
that is
only written for C/C++ programming, and this one covers subjects
like why
you have to write a 1 to clear a flag bit in some registers, and
things like
the gadfly technique along with the pros and cons of each technique.
There
are some really horrible books on this subject but I would place
these three
at the absolute top of the list!

So what is the title of this 3rd book?

Thanks-- 607-656-2597




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Re: ***[Possible UCE]*** Re: Where to start? - Sydney Faria - Apr 9 10:46:00 2004

Author is G. Jack Lipovski, ISBN 0-12-451830-3, 'Single- and Multi-Chip
Microcontroller Interfacing for the Motorola 68HC12' -- I got a used copy
for $30. It is strictly C/C++ oriented, but extremely informative... I
bought 10 books on this subject last summer when I was given the assembly
language assignment and had to get up to speed rapidly... The others range
from mediocre to lousey! Another tip: since I am not taking a course and
am not a student I should be able to get the instructors CD with more code
and answers, at least I feel that for the price of a book, I should be
entitled to do so. I created a bit of a stir at Delmar publishing about
this point and actually got them to send me one for free!
Someone mentioned the D60 in one of the postings - a real good choice as
does all the good stuff the earlier versions do and has the CAN module and
ECT to boot with lots of memory! The only trick to learn to the relocate
the memory to $800. The axiom documentations shows this little trick. I
started to use the DP256 after experimenting with the A4 and B32 for the
more advanced features, but settled on the D60A as it is much easier to
learn with less headache, that DP256 was driving me crazy with all the
little timing and clock tricks that I had to learn, and I really wanted to
get into real asm coding without all the bumps and hurdles. Now that I have
been doing this for about 1 year, I would pull out one of our Axiom DP256
boards and do some experimenting. If you need any info on using CAN let me
know... Sydney
----- Original Message -----
From: Kellogg Dave
To: '
Sent: Friday, April 09, 2004 10:45 AM
Subject: RE: ***[Possible UCE]*** Re: [68HC12] Where to start? Hi Sydney--

You wrote:
68HC05, etc. There is one more really great book on this subject
that is
only written for C/C++ programming, and this one covers subjects
like why
you have to write a 1 to clear a flag bit in some registers, and
things like
the gadfly technique along with the pros and cons of each technique.
There
are some really horrible books on this subject but I would place
these three
at the absolute top of the list!

So what is the title of this 3rd book?

Thanks-- 607-656-2597

--------------------------------------------------------To learn more
about Motorola Microcontrollers, please visit
http://www.motorola.com/mcu
o learn more about Motorola Microcontrollers, please visit
http://www.motorola.com/mcu

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
--
Yahoo! Groups Links

a.. To
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




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Re: ***[Possible UCE]*** Re: Where to start? - James M. Knox - Apr 13 4:10:00 2004

At 22:46 4/9/2004, you wrote:
>Author is G. Jack Lipovski, ISBN 0-12-451830-3, 'Single- and Multi-Chip
>Microcontroller Interfacing for the Motorola 68HC12' -- ... Mad Dog Jack... haven't heard that name in a few years. Small world...

jmk
-----------------------------------------------
James M. Knox
TriSoft ph 512-385-0316
1109-A Shady Lane fax 512-366-4331
Austin, Tx 78721
-----------------------------------------------



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