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Does anybody know what the difference (OR whice is better) between the basic ATOM and the BX24? Thanks, Duane

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> If you are a beginner, Basic Stamp is the only option. Come on now, only option? That's a ridiculous statement. Are you deciding that for everyone else? -- Doug

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I have both Basic Atom and BX24 (and Basic Stamp). I would most highly recommend Basic Stamp if you are a beginner. Atom and BS2 have very similar syntax. But BX-24 has a totally different syntax. I haven't used my BX-24. It is collecting dust because of lack of documentation to show how to use the syntax. I have used BS2 for many interesting applications including I2C, Dallas 1 Wire, Motorola SPI etc. I'm trying to use Atom, but I'm running into same problems as BX-24. i.e. not much good documentation & actual errors in manuals which only confuse what little info. they give. If you are a beginner, Basic Stamp is the only option. --- In , "mtn_biker37" <mtn_biker37@y...> wrote: > Does anybody know what the difference (OR whice is better) between > the basic ATOM and the BX24? > > Thanks, > Duane

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> ... If you are a beginner, Basic Stamp is the only option. I absolutely disagree. BS2 is programmed with it's arcane proprietary pseudo-basic that finds no application anywhere else. It's portability to or from other platform families is about zero. The BX-24 is programmed with standard VB6. Developing in VB6 and debugging module code _on the PC_ is much easier to learn and make useful than BS2, IMO, and the educational experience is applicable to larger platforms. If you are a beginner get a battery, switch and bulb, then get a PC and a BX-24 to automate them; you're on your way to an embedded programming career. Tom Becker --... ...-- www.RighTime.com The RighTime Clock Company, Inc., Cape Coral, Florida USA +1239 540 5700

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I respectfully disagree for following reasons: Portability? What other microcontroller on the market today uses Visual Basic language other than BX-24? I don't know of any major micros. PBASIC is at least similar to MBasic from Basic Micro and PICBasic from MELabs. So if you know PBasic, you can program any other PIC micros. very easily, if you purchase those compilers. Educational experience? If your intent is to learn VB6, then stay with VB6 from Microsoft. But if your goal is to learn how to use SPI EE, or I2C IO expander or host of electronic components, then you can't beat BS2 from Parallax for its ease of use, and support. May I ask what specifically you have done with BX-24? And how long it took you to become good at BX-24? I was programming I2C protocols within 3 weeks, starting from scratch (just turning on/off LED). Don't get me wrong. I fully agree that BX-24 has a good potential. From spec. perspective, it has much more to offer than BS2 (more speed, memory, multi-tasking etc.). But what good is it if you don't have good documentation to teach new users how to use its powerful features? That is my point. For beginner, Basic Stamp 2 is the only practical option. --- In , "Tom Becker" <gtbecker@r...> wrote: > > ... If you are a beginner, Basic Stamp is the only option. > > I absolutely disagree. BS2 is programmed with it's arcane proprietary > pseudo-basic that finds no application anywhere else. It's portability to > or from other platform families is about zero. > > The BX-24 is programmed with standard VB6. Developing in VB6 and debugging > module code _on the PC_ is much easier to learn and make useful than BS2, > IMO, and the educational experience is applicable to larger platforms. > > If you are a beginner get a battery, switch and bulb, then get a PC and a > BX-24 to automate them; you're on your way to an embedded programming > career. > > Tom Becker > --... ...-- > GTBecker@R... GTBecker@S... www.RighTime.com > The RighTime Clock Company, Inc., Cape Coral, Florida USA > +1239 540 5700

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On Friday, July 11, 2003, at 08:15 AM, Tom Becker wrote: >> ... If you are a beginner, Basic Stamp is the only option. > > I absolutely disagree. BS2 is programmed with it's arcane proprietary > pseudo-basic that finds no application anywhere else. It's > portability to > or from other platform families is about zero. I disagree with both. I've taught in the past with the BS-2 successfully. I switched to the BX-24 when it came out because it was faster, and had ADC's and tasks and real block if-statements. I actually found its programming syntax a hindrance for beginning programmers, but we get through it. Many of my students go on to use the PIC using PicBasic Pro, which is syntactically more similar to the improved stamp Basic, and a great PIC programming tool. Now that the BS-2 Basic has improved, and now that the ATOMM is on the market using a similar basic and with some nice special features, I am considering switching to the Basic ATOMM. Ideally, I think it's good for students to learn a variety of languages and platforms. I've had to learn at least a dozen for various specialized reasons, and most programmers I know have had to do more. So which one you start with is not nearly as important as how you make them aware of the other options before they leave your class. -- Tom Igoe

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At 02:21 PM 7/11/2003 -0000, you wrote: >>>> Can you please advise where I can find good examples using BX-24? I've looked at their website, but it was not much of use. <----I really don't understand why folks have such a hard time finding programming examples for the BX stuff, since it's everywhere. Try here for starters: http://www.phanderson.com/basicx/index.html ------ http://www.ah6le.net The RC-210 Repeater Controller is now shipping! For more information, please visit: http://www.ah6le.net/arcom/index.html AH6LE/R - IRLP Node 3000 http://www.irlp.net

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Fortunately, we can disagree and we never need to cross paths. I suspect if Joe Blow wants a career as a programmer, all else equal, he'll find more employment opportunites with VB experience than he would with BS2. > ... May I ask what specifically you have done with BX-24? And how long it took you to become good at BX-24? I've used the BX-24 for several projects; the simplest serves a navigation and timing function on my boat. The most sophisticated is a small accurate time-of-day clock. No ordinary tick counter, though, this clock learns its errors and gets better with age. It uses heavy float math (one equation - one statement - is some 700 hundred bytes long using only two-byte varnames), accepts and uses NMEA and 1pps GPS data when it's available, and also bangs bits. How long did it take me to become proficient with the BX-24? I think I was beyond flashing LEDs in a few hour and had the machine taking it's own crystal temperature and starting to predict the clock frequency two days after that. But that's me; I'm no beginner with computers or electronics and I'm not going to go out and start again after forty years. I'd hire a VB-proficient programmer, though, all else equal, before I'd hire one lacking VB, because that person can do more, on more platforms, large and small, IMMHOO. Tom Becker --... ...-- www.RighTime.com The RighTime Clock Company, Inc., Cape Coral, Florida USA +1239 540 5700

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> ... start again after forty years. Actually, I eat my own words; I've just taken a serious plunge into Linux. The more I get to know it, the efforts behind it and the platforms it can run on, the more I see the MSDOS of today, the OS that will mature into whatever will topple Windows. Strangely, I'm beginning to enjoy command line power and simplicity again. From the command line one can see the bottom of the OS and feel much closer to the hardware; that's more difficult for me to do from a GUI desktop. And, there is a Linux-based watch... Tom Becker --... ...-- www.RighTime.com The RighTime Clock Company, Inc., Cape Coral, Florida USA +1239 540 5700

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On Friday, July 11, 2003, at 11:44 AM, Tom Becker wrote: > Fortunately, we can disagree and we never need to cross paths. > > I suspect if Joe Blow wants a career as a programmer, all else equal, > he'll > find more employment opportunites with VB experience than he would > with BS2. I've taught in the past with the BS-2 successfully. I switched to the BX-24 when it came out because it was faster, and had ADC's and tasks and real block if-statements. I actually found its programming syntax a hindrance for beginning programmers, but we get through it. Many of my students go on to use the PIC using PicBasic Pro, which is syntactically more similar to the improved stamp Basic, and a great PIC programming tool. Now that the BS-2 Basic has improved, and now that the ATOMM is on the market using a similar basic and with some nice special features, I am considering switching to the Basic ATOMM. Professionally, I tend to use PICs on most jobs for clients, and work in PicBasic Pro when I can, and CCS C when I have to. On the desktop, most people I work with (since I don't do much of the desktop stuff anymore) use either C/C++ or Java. On the server side, most of the stuff I do is in Java or Perl, but I see a lot of PHP, Python, and C as well. Outside people coding for windows only, I see very little Visual Basic, which is why I've never bothered to introduce it when teaching. Ideally, I think it's good for students to learn a variety of languages and platforms. I've had to learn at least a dozen for various specialized reasons, and most programmers I know have had to do more. So which one you start with is not nearly as important as how you make them aware of the other options before they leave your class. -- Tom Igoe

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It is obvious that you were not a beginner when you started with BX- 24. If you were a true beginner, wanting to learn both microcontroller programming and basic interfacing hardware, would you agree that BS2 is easier for learning purpose? I agree that after you've outgrown BS2, then you can probably migrate to any micro. with relative ease. My point was for the absolute beginner, because of easy language syntax AND fantastic support & learning materials Parallax offers for free. --- In , "Tom Becker" <gtbecker@r...> wrote: > Fortunately, we can disagree and we never need to cross paths. > > I suspect if Joe Blow wants a career as a programmer, all else equal, he'll > find more employment opportunites with VB experience than he would with BS2. > > > ... May I ask what specifically you have done with BX-24? And how long it > took you to become good at BX-24? > > I've used the BX-24 for several projects; the simplest serves a navigation > and timing function on my boat. The most sophisticated is a small accurate > time-of-day clock. No ordinary tick counter, though, this clock learns its > errors and gets better with age. It uses heavy float math (one equation - > one statement - is some 700 hundred bytes long using only two-byte > varnames), accepts and uses NMEA and 1pps GPS data when it's available, and > also bangs bits. > > How long did it take me to become proficient with the BX-24? I think I was > beyond flashing LEDs in a few hour and had the machine taking it's own > crystal temperature and starting to predict the clock frequency two days > after that. But that's me; I'm no beginner with computers or electronics and > I'm not going to go out and start again after forty years. > > I'd hire a VB-proficient programmer, though, all else equal, before I'd hire > one lacking VB, because that person can do more, on more platforms, large > and small, IMMHOO. > Tom Becker > --... ...-- > GTBecker@R... GTBecker@S... www.RighTime.com > The RighTime Clock Company, Inc., Cape Coral, Florida USA > +1239 540 5700

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Tom, I should warn you that Linux is very user friendly but it is picky about who its friends are. :-) Mark --- Tom Becker <> wrote: > > ... start again after forty years. > > Actually, I eat my own words; I've just taken a serious plunge into Linux. > The more I get to know it, the efforts behind it and the platforms it can > run on, the more I see the MSDOS of today, the OS that will mature into > whatever will topple Windows. > > Strangely, I'm beginning to enjoy command line power and simplicity again. > From the command line one can see the bottom of the OS and feel much closer > to the hardware; that's more difficult for me to do from a GUI desktop. > > And, there is a Linux-based watch... > Tom Becker > --... ...-- > www.RighTime.com > The RighTime Clock Company, Inc., Cape Coral, Florida USA > +1239 540 5700 __________________________________

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At 09:31 AM 7/11/2003 -0700, you wrote: >I should warn you that Linux is very user friendly but it is picky about who its >friends are. :-) <----LOL! or as we Unix types say.. /bin/laden > /dev/null 2>&1 Ken ------ http://www.ah6le.net The RC-210 Repeater Controller is now shipping! For more information, please visit: http://www.ah6le.net/arcom/index.html AH6LE/R - IRLP Node 3000 http://www.irlp.net

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--- In , "yellowniter" <yellowniter@y...> wrote: > My point was for the absolute beginner, because of easy language > syntax AND fantastic support & learning materials Parallax offers for > free. Every fall I take 15 to 20 high school students up and programming small autonomous robots (that they build) using the BX-24. It takes them maybe two sessions before they are off on their own, maodifying the code to change their robot's behavior. Every January I take 4 to 5 students up and programming the FIRST robot controller, which uses a BS2. It takes about two weeks before they are proficient. For the youth just getting into programming an embedded controller, you are doing them a disservice to teach them an archane programming language like pbasic. I think it is time you broaden your horizons.

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> ... would you agree that BS2 is easier for learning purpose? Learning what? would determine a specific answer to that, but by my experience, in retrospect, no. I also started with the BS2 because I'd never heard of the BX-24 (Netmedia's great failing, I think, is marketing). I thought BS2's architecture and command set were odd, frankly, but learned and used it a little, nonetheless. I had the BS2 Morse keyer running pretty quickly and used it as a model for whatever I did next, as I recall, but I felt even then that the timing (my obvious focus) of even sending simple Morse code was close to the part's potential. Sometime later I visted Dave Houston and encountered the BX-24. "BasicStamp on steroids", he said, and I soon agreed. I cannot take a true newbie's place, of course, but I believe I would have rather found the BX-24 first and saved some time. Tom Becker --... ...-- www.RighTime.com The RighTime Clock Company, Inc., Cape Coral, Florida USA +1239 540 5700

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Let me say that I'm a novice and have used about 3 different controllers, BasicX, BS2 and OOPic. My first was the BS2 and having some knowledge of QBasic (gasp) and very little VB I found the BS2 a bit confusing. With the BasicX I had very few problems getting a few small programs up and running. As a novice and a 40+ year old guy who sometimes can't seem to remember his own name I would say the BasicX is a great start for beginners. I believe what the BS2 has over the BasicX is the large user communitity but that will change over time. Marketing plays a big part. For now I use the BasicX because it works for my applications. As for applications for the BasicX I agree there are a lot of code snippets but you don't see a lot of users showing off their work on some page. I see a lot of questions of "how do I" or "I'm doing this" but you never really have any one saying here is the finish product in use. Sometimes I wonder are people actually putting the BasicX to use somewhere. Not that that is a bad thing but it would help show the versatility of the BasicX. Code is nice but to see it in the finished product gives a better picture. Just my 2 cents from an old guy!! David

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Own personal experience: I ordered both the Basic Stamp and X24 before I had touched anything. Week 1: I played almost exclusively with the BASIC Stamp due to the available manuals and tutorials (very hand holding). I either read through most of the labs or actually did them in some cases. Week 2: I started building on my own with the BASIC Stamp. End of the week I ran into snafu. I was trying to interface to a serial r/c servo controller. Both the servo controller and the Basic stamps serial interface try to rob each other of voltage to communicate. Week 3: A couple of well placed emails, and people on the BasicX list told me I wouldn't run into the same problem with the X-24. I cracked the manuals and although pretty happy to see some of the power I was gaining, I was also having brain overload at some of the additional complexity. Since I wasn't up for the challenge of learning all the serial mumbo jumbo of the x24 at the time, I cheated and used the interface port for the PC and debug print commands to send. I would love to see some BasicX books that are written for the newbie along the lines of the Basic Stamp stuff. Maybe they're already out there? Hmm... Mark Taylor -----Original Message----- From: Doug [mailto:] Sent: Friday, July 11, 2003 3:46 AM To: Subject: RE: [BasicX] Re: Looking for a uController > If you are a beginner, Basic Stamp is the only option. Come on now, only option? That's a ridiculous statement. Are you deciding that for everyone else? -- Doug

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Hi Tom, I was just reading all the posts and find it interesting to see how aggressively each side defends it's case. It's like PC Vs MAC. And how could we know who is "winning"? If I say that I was born in 1942, lets see how many can figure out how old I am without any documentation. It's good to see that there are so many folks interested in microcontrollers! Mike [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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Hi, Any time I can get what I need from part of 2 pages rather than 14 I'm pleased. Multiply it out, that proportion would make the BX-24 manual nearly 1000 pages long. I'll bet that many beginners really appreciate the direct concise approach. Mike [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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I've been reading all this "discussion" about BasicStamp vs. BX-24. I think the "information generation" has grown up with so much information at our fingertips that some of us may be a little spoiled! But, just be clear, I am not referring to myself here ;-/ As an electronics hobbyist, I have "dug out" info for years when I was really interested in accomplishing a task. I have only given up on one project I really wanted to finish. (And that was a desire vs. responsibilities conflict.) For those that think the BS2 or what ever else is better, now is a great time to go have some fun or make some money -- and get off BX-24's back. BX-24 is ONLY what it is, and everyone here seems to agree that a more robust set of documents and examples would be great. Should we call for another vote on this subject just to be sure? NEXT QUESTION, PLEASE :-) Paul Little in Texas [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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From: Tom Igoe <> > [...] > I've taught in the past with the BS-2 successfully. I > switched to the BX-24 when it came out because it was > faster, and had ADC's and tasks and real block > if-statements. I actually found its programming > syntax a hindrance for beginning programmers, but we > get through it. [...] What aspects of the syntax are causing difficulties? What improvements would you suggest that would make the language easier for beginners? -- Frank Manning -- NetMedia, Inc.

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In my opinion Basic modules are too Expensive!!! To me, for anything, the better and cheaper is MicroChip 16F87x family. Assambler -> MPLab -> ICProg -> JDM Programer ... a powerful world of digital electronic experience ...

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