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I have been working on a one-sided DIY printed circuit board for the
BX-35.

The goal is to provide a 'hobby board' that can be flexible enough to
provide use of all the BX-35s features and be small enough to use in
a robotic applications or just a small independent box.

As it stands, I am near completion of the art work and I will print
and drill and populate a test run. The i/o pins are set up to either
run servos [How many servos can the BX-35 run at one time?], to have
pull-up or pull-down resistor assigned to individual pins or in
gangs, or to provide each i/o pin with adjacent Vdd and Vss for
sensors or what ever.

I think the size in about 4 inches by 2 3/4 inches.

The only thing I have done that may be a bit controversial is to
remove the programing interface - the actual DB9 and related hex
inverter. You have to build a separate little board that plugs in
with the Rx,Tx, and Attn lines. I have provided a header to do so
and it includes Vss and Vdd to operate the interface.

In this way, you can program and then by removing the plug in, you
can use the COM1 port for either an RS-485 Port, a TTL RS-232
interface, or some other serial i/o specification.

The board includes wiring for an RS-485 on COM3 via an 8pin DIP that
would hold the driver chip.

So, I hope to have the artwork available to share in a week or two.
I intend to let anyone copy it for their own use if not for
redistribution or resale.

My biggest construction dilema is how to get all those holes neatly
drilled.



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It sounds like it will be nice! I have a very simple dev board for
the BX-24. I really like it. It does not have much support
hardware. Just a voltage regulator, an DB-9 for Com1. Other than
this it just has header pins to connect to a solderless breadboard.
Works nicely. I have it boxed up for my GPS interface project.

-Tony

--- In basicx@basi..., "G. Kramer Herzog" <hwanghetw@y...>
wrote:
> I have been working on a one-sided DIY printed circuit board for
the
> BX-35.
>
> The goal is to provide a 'hobby board' that can be flexible enough
to
> provide use of all the BX-35s features and be small enough to use
in
> a robotic applications or just a small independent box.
>
> As it stands, I am near completion of the art work and I will
print
> and drill and populate a test run. The i/o pins are set up to
either
> run servos [How many servos can the BX-35 run at one time?], to
have
> pull-up or pull-down resistor assigned to individual pins or in
> gangs, or to provide each i/o pin with adjacent Vdd and Vss for
> sensors or what ever.
>
> I think the size in about 4 inches by 2 3/4 inches.
>
> The only thing I have done that may be a bit controversial is to
> remove the programing interface - the actual DB9 and related hex
> inverter. You have to build a separate little board that plugs in
> with the Rx,Tx, and Attn lines. I have provided a header to do so
> and it includes Vss and Vdd to operate the interface.
>
> In this way, you can program and then by removing the plug in, you
> can use the COM1 port for either an RS-485 Port, a TTL RS-232
> interface, or some other serial i/o specification.
>
> The board includes wiring for an RS-485 on COM3 via an 8pin DIP
that
> would hold the driver chip.
>
> So, I hope to have the artwork available to share in a week or
two.
> I intend to let anyone copy it for their own use if not for
> redistribution or resale.
>
> My biggest construction dilema is how to get all those holes
neatly
> drilled.




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--- In basicx@basi..., "arhodes19044" <spamiam@c...> wrote:
> It sounds like it will be nice! I have a very simple dev board for
> the BX-24. I really like it. It does not have much support
> hardware. Just a voltage regulator, an DB-9 for Com1. Other than
> this it just has header pins to connect to a solderless
breadboard.
> Works nicely. I have it boxed up for my GPS interface project.
>
> -Tony The BX-35 offers everything that the BX-24 does and a few more pins.
I really love my BX-24s as they are by and far the prettiest little
microcontrollers. BUT if you want to interface with more SPI chips
you have to start hacking into them.

Seeing that they are so small and modular, I would rather work with
the BX-35. Also, I wanted to create something that could generically
fit into a variety of projects.

This board will hopefully allow you to populate it with female
headers and then stack another board above it. Thusly, you can
double your board, have direct interface and power, and maintain the
small foot print - all at the same time.

Things like adding opto-isolated inputs, or relay controlled outputs,
or ADC conversion of higher voltages via a voltage divider network,
or controlling PWM servos with numerous sensors, or having an LCD and
10-key interface.

On and on.

The BX-35 is a little cheaper, but when you add in a board it comes
out nearly the same (if it is DIY) or more. Still, you have more
freedom to expand.

I guess I am really a hardware freak more than a programer.

As I said before, I am really just going to offer the artwork to
anyone that wants to make one. Unless I can get a very good deal on
manufacture, it is not worth printing 100 boards and waiting forever
for people to buy one.




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Posted a Beta copy of the artwork in Yahoo's Files section for this
group.

I have done further refinements to it, but the problem is that I cannot
seem to get it in an appropriate file format for others to use.

When I do, I will provide a final a Black - Mirror Image Copy.




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Hi,

have you tried a combination of FreePCB <www.freepcb.com> and a freeware gerber
viewer? I just started using freepcb and find it quite usable - it is freeware,
and I found it better than the two non-freeware packages I already purchased. I
am just a satisfied user; I have no other connection to FreePCB.

--
Best regards,
Patrick Murphy Monday, August 29, 2005, 2:19:47 AM, you wrote:

> Posted a Beta copy of the artwork in Yahoo's Files section for this
> group.

> I have done further refinements to it, but the problem is that I cannot
> seem to get it in an appropriate file format for others to use.

> When I do, I will provide a final a Black - Mirror Image Copy.



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I will take a look, but I am using Eagle V4.15 and am just a
beginner. It has a demo version that is FREE, and the small version
is $49USD. Eagle seemed very easy to learn and I still have to
figure out a few things. I can provide the file in Eagle format and
anyone can download their software to print, edit, and/or modify.

It seems that all the printed circuit programs want to avoid creating
generic files for the DIY artwork and now Microsoft is converting
printed visual material into proprietary software. I am not sure if
this can be solved by changing software.

It seems I need someone that can convert to a GENERIC formate.

--- In basicx@basi..., Patrick Murphy <luke631@m...> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> have you tried a combination of FreePCB <www.freepcb.com> and a
freeware gerber
> viewer? I just started using freepcb and find it quite usable - it
is freeware,
> and I found it better than the two non-freeware packages I already
purchased. I
> am just a satisfied user; I have no other connection to FreePCB.
>
> --
> Best regards,
> Patrick Murphy




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CURRENT STATUS

I have printed two BX-35 boards, drilled one out, and began soldering.

While I can get everything on the board, it is a bit crowded. Also,
I should have provided a separate ground plane for Port B's ADC
function.

So, I am continuing to build this proto-type [to test functionality],
but have a list of modifications [including increasing the board size
to allow for better stand off holes and a reasonable heat sink on the
7805]that are going to be implimented. A few of the 'goodies' are
likely useless, but would go un-noticed with a document to explain.

As with all such projects, you really can't see all your flaws until
one is actually built.

In the mean time, I have one extra board that someone might want to
drill out and populate. I actually printed two because I wasn't sure
of the exposure for the printing and I thought a back up board would
be a good idea. As it stands, the one I am not using is the better
print because I wanted to keep it in reserve if I botched the first.

In sum, if you copy the posted board you will have something useful.
But it might be better to wait. Fall semester is starting and I am
unsure how quickly completion will occur.





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Hi Kramer,

Please don't laugh at my suggestion too hard (that goes for the rest of the group) :-). If one is only interested in a 'black mirror' image that everyone should be able to view, and this is assuming you are using windows, press your "Print Screen" and windows puts a jpeg format of your monitor screen on the clipboard. One can then do a paste in any image viewer and/or editor (even WORD) to create a jpeg file that can be loaded to the files. :-)

For what its worth, Mark

"G. Kramer Herzog" <hwanghetw@hwan...> wrote:
I will take a look, but I am using Eagle V4.15 and am just a
beginner. It has a demo version that is FREE, and the small

---------------------------------
Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



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--- In basicx@basi..., "G. Kramer Herzog" <hwanghetw@y...>
wrote:
> It seems I need someone that can convert to a GENERIC formate.

I'm no expert on the topic but I believe that Gerber format is a
widely accepted standard; there may be others, as well. I suspect
that Eagle can produce Gerber files.

I took a quick look at FreePCB; it can produce Gerbers as well. The
layout tool that I have used, ExpressPCB, unfortunately does not
produce Gerber files.

Don




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Firstly, I have built one board and finally gotten the power stable.
It will work, but I don't like it. In places it is too crowded and
hard to build. Some features are useless, others are awkward.

So I am presently revising the artwork, before posting. In the
process, it looks like I will have two versions of the board.

I will post a photo of the populated proto-type in running mode when
I finish. Simulateously, I am working on the art work for the two
better versions and will only post the art work for those.

One will have a separate ground plane to the Port B pins for clean
ADC. This will actually make the BX-35 capable of doing its best at
analogue sampling and one might add an separate supply with a low-
pass filter. This one will allow two 16 wire ribbon cables to move
lines off the board. Each will have 8 lines for data
[digital/analoge] and 8 lines for simply ground [to minimize noise].

The second will have a more general configuaration to use a lot of
servos and/or LEDs. It has an area adjacted to the outputs that
provide for pull-up/pull-down resistors, for +5regulated,
+Vunregulated, and additional ground [this way, you can plug servos
directly into the board or you can plug LEDs directly into the board.

And, It am try to design these boards so that you can build another
board on a 0.1" grid and stack it above. REGARDing GERBER FILES
I really am trying to create a piece of art work that goes directly
to the printer so you don't have to order a PC board from a jobber.
These are one-sided boards that you can make at home.

The GERBER FILES are for the jobber to use with their equipment. --- In basicx@basi..., "Don Kinzer" <dkinzer@e...> wrote:
> --- In basicx@basi..., "G. Kramer Herzog" <hwanghetw@y...>
> wrote:
> > It seems I need someone that can convert to a GENERIC formate.
>
> I'm no expert on the topic but I believe that Gerber format is a
> widely accepted standard; there may be others, as well. I suspect
> that Eagle can produce Gerber files.
>
> I took a quick look at FreePCB; it can produce Gerbers as well.
The
> layout tool that I have used, ExpressPCB, unfortunately does not
> produce Gerber files.
>
> Don


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G. Kramer Herzog wrote:

> Firstly, I have built one board and finally gotten the power stable.
> It will work, but I don't like it. In places it is too crowded and
> hard to build. Some features are useless, others are awkward.

How about posting an EAGLE schematic so we can see what you are proposing.

> REGARDing GERBER FILES
> I really am trying to create a piece of art work that goes directly
> to the printer so you don't have to order a PC board from a jobber.
> These are one-sided boards that you can make at home.

Post the EAGLE .brd file and I can convert to a PDF that can be then
printed or used as a UV mask.

Mike

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I am posting the EAGLE.brd file as it currently stands.

I have not built this board and I may make further modifications, but
at least you can see if it is at all worthwhile.
>
> Post the EAGLE .brd file and I can convert to a PDF that can be then
> printed or used as a UV mask.



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G. Kramer Herzog wrote:

> I am posting the EAGLE.brd file as it currently stands.
>
> I have not built this board and I may make further modifications, but
> at least you can see if it is at all worthwhile.

Actually I can't see if it's worthwhile because the BRD is not terribly
helpful without corresponding schematic.

Here is the schematic for my development/prototyping board.
http://home.austin.rr.com/perks/basicx/bx35_development_board.pdf

This is one of the first circuits I built last year. Someday I may write
it up. Here is a summary of the board facilities and a picture:
http://home.austin.rr.com/perks/basicx/DevelopmentBoard.htm

Mike

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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> Actually I can't see if it's worthwhile because the BRD is not
terribly
> helpful without corresponding schematic.

Well, this is indeed true. I have been learning Eagle and I have
avoided the schematic sections to start. I just wanted to get two
boards printed and working in order use my two BX-35s.

Actually, I feel quite strongly that sharing a schematic is really
part of presentation. I am still deeply disappointed that the XbotX
Scout's is incomplete. [The IR system, the power distribution, and
the interface to the LCD are not shown. I don't expect all the LCD
as NetMedia is welcome to protect how it creates a serial interface,
but at least show me where and what is not disclosed.] > Here is the schematic for my development/prototyping board.
> http://home.austin.rr.com/perks/basicx/bx35_development_board.pdf

TWO big differences here.

1. Yours is a development board with lots of added features [LCD
interface, LEDs driven by UNL2803s, brown out control, and so on] -
seems intended as a bench top tutorial tool.

My board is more of minimal Servo controller/hobby board - intended
for use on a robot or in a small isolated location. [far less chips]

2. Yours is copyrighted; mine is open to modification and
exploration by anyone.

While I admit the file is a bit messy [I have found ways to clean it
up and will do so], the Eagle.brd file can be used by anyone wanting
to get started. > This is one of the first circuits I built last year. Someday I may
write
> it up. Here is a summary of the board facilities and a picture:
> http://home.austin.rr.com/perks/basicx/DevelopmentBoard.htm
>
> Mike As I mentioned in the beginning, I am just trying to be generous and
build a community of users to share with. I personally don't think
most of use can afford to pay jobbers to make small runs of boards,
but I want to verify that I can build a one-sided, usable BX-35 board.

Your board's schematic is very helpful to confirm operable values. I
will compare in detail to try to solve my confusion about the 100k
pull-up resistors in NetMedia's schematic.

Regarding my board at this time.
I am a bit concerned with the PROM layout as I have read that the
power drain of using Flash can in some instances cause a failure to
write properly. I think the ground wire is too small.

I have one built for testing, but am now building the programing
interface [DB-9 and MAX232]. Once I have a whole set [two boards],
then I can actually see if the programing is okay.

______________________________
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> ... I [] don't think most of [us] can afford to pay jobbers to make
small runs of boards...

First-rate boards can be designed and verified on your machine with
free tools, ordered automatically online and delivered in days for
less than most processor costs. I can't imagine better service.

I use Express PCB, an Oregon company that will surely deliver to
Taiwan, and I am, presumptuously, certain you have similar services on
or near the island.

See http://groups.yahoo.com/group/basicx/links/ Tom




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--- In basicx@basi..., "Tom Becker" <gtbecker@r...> wrote:
> > ... I [] don't think most of [us] can afford to pay jobbers to make
> small runs of boards...

I presume that someone is into DIY and that some of the customers are
youth. Also, many of the jobbers are limiting you to one project per
board as boards are getting smaller and smaller. > First-rate boards can be designed and verified on your machine with
> free tools, ordered automatically online and delivered in days for
> less than most processor costs. I can't imagine better service.

I am aware of Express PCB and the software, but what if you design the
board wrong. I certainly have done so on my first try. Too tight, too
crowded. NOT everything is about being electrically okay, there are
other layout considerations if you want to be modular [plug into other
boards] or compact. You may find that parts are no longer available.

Printing one and building it will tell you a lot. NONE of the jobbers
is cost effective for one board. If you get it wrong, you aren't going
to get a refund.
>
> I use Express PCB, an Oregon company that will surely deliver to
> Taiwan, and I am, presumptuously, certain you have similar services on
> or near the island.

I love Oregon [spent 15 years in Eugene - no sales tax in Oregon], but
Express PCB and others seem to add quite a bit on to overseas freight
and then there is the import duty. Up and away goes the cost.

IN TAIWAN, I can get 1,000 or 10,000 boards done very cheaply BUT
nobody wants to talk to me about a few. People here don't view
electronics as a hobby in the same way Westerners do.

I could go on and on about Taiwan's viewpoint, but please trust me to
say that it is a very different culture. Just building things for fun
is considered a waste of time and money.

Nonetheless, they always seem surprised when a Westerner is better
informed about technology [and DIY is how we do that].

LOOK AT it this way.
How many BasicX customers really can afford $50-75 to make a board
compared to $3-5 to make a board?

If you at least support DIY boards as a phase of learning for some, you
are supporting more sales.

Eventually, I will know exactly what I want. Then I can go to Express
PCB and order a few beautiful boards.



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G., your perpetually bleak attitude is dragging me down. It must be
raining in Taiwan again, huh?

> ... some of the customers are youth.
> ... boards are getting smaller and smaller.
> ... what if you design the board wrong[?]
> ... LOOK AT it this way. How many BasicX customers really can afford
$50-75...

1 - Is that, in some obscure way, relevant? I wish kids well with what
they can afford.
2 - The service is what is offered at the price demanded. If it does
not suit you, go elsewhere. No suitable elsewhere? Choose another
avocation.
3 - If you design a bad board and they build it, they should reward you
with a free run? Nonsense. Do it right the first time or pay twice;
your choice.
4 - I do not care to look at it your way, G. What others can afford is
not your business.

There are many professionals here. Time permitting, we are pleased to
help, but we are not child advocates. Choose your next demands of our
time carefully, please.

My Goodness! Look at the clock! Tom





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> I am aware of Express PCB and the software, but what if you design the
> board wrong. I certainly have done so on my first try. Too tight, too
> crowded. NOT everything is about being electrically okay, there are
> other layout considerations if you want to be modular [plug into other
> boards] or compact. You may find that parts are no longer available.

On Express PCB you can print out the top, bottom or silkscreen at the
actual board size. You can then lay your parts on it to see if they
fit. I did this when I had to figure out for 2 daughter cards to be
attached to the board for options. I use Digikey for most all my parts
and build the diagram for them to store in Express PCB. This way I
know the size it is.
You are correct in that many of the old IC's are not available anymore.
If on a new design, it's best to look for the parts before you start
building. Now they have Xilink. You can download all the programming
for free from there site and program any IC that you may need. It also
cuts down on board count.
I made a board about 8 years ago that had 25 IC's on it. Now I can do
the same thing with 1 Basicx and 1 Xilink chip not including the
resistors or cap's but that count is also down.

Ken Smith





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Hello all,

I was just reading this posting, and I figured I would
let you know about www.pcb123.com The company not only
provides all the software you need. I.E schematic, and
board layout you can also get a set(2) of boards for
less than a $100.00. The cost will decrease as the
number of boards increases. They are very good and the
turn around is very quick. The company will make 2 or
2000 with no problem.

Patrick Christensen

--- "G. Kramer Herzog" <hwanghetw@hwan...> wrote: [Excess removed by moderator]




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Actually the LCD is one of the most simple parts! It uses a PIC of
some wort. It recieves instructions over the serial line and then
trnaslates that data to parallel data. There can be a lot of
translation if complex sequences of LCD communication can be
summarized with a special code and some data.

I am trying to write the driver for the 16x4 lcd from Sparkfun. It
is pretty cheap, and does not have precisely the same command set as
the Netmedia LCD.

My final code will use the same user-level commands for the
different hardware. Plus, Sparkfun sells the serial board solo, and
it will then fot onto any "standard" 14 or 16 pin LCD.

You can also buy the serial adapter boards elsewhere too. At least
one that I know of uses (AFAIK) the same serial command set at the
Netmedia displays

-Tony --- In basicx@basi..., "G. Kramer Herzog" <hwanghetw@y...>
wrote:
>
> > Actually I can't see if it's worthwhile because the BRD is not
> terribly
> > helpful without corresponding schematic.
>
> Well, this is indeed true. I have been learning Eagle and I have
> avoided the schematic sections to start. I just wanted to get two
> boards printed and working in order use my two BX-35s.
>
> Actually, I feel quite strongly that sharing a schematic is really
> part of presentation. I am still deeply disappointed that the
XbotX
> Scout's is incomplete. [The IR system, the power distribution, and
> the interface to the LCD are not shown. I don't expect all the
LCD
> as NetMedia is welcome to protect how it creates a serial
interface,
> but at least show me where and what is not disclosed.]
>
> >
> > Here is the schematic for my development/prototyping board.
> > http://home.austin.rr.com/perks/basicx/bx35_development_board.pdf
>
> TWO big differences here.
>
> 1. Yours is a development board with lots of added features [LCD
> interface, LEDs driven by UNL2803s, brown out control, and so on] -

> seems intended as a bench top tutorial tool.
>
> My board is more of minimal Servo controller/hobby board -
intended
> for use on a robot or in a small isolated location. [far less
chips]
>
> 2. Yours is copyrighted; mine is open to modification and
> exploration by anyone.
>
> While I admit the file is a bit messy [I have found ways to clean
it
> up and will do so], the Eagle.brd file can be used by anyone
wanting
> to get started. > > This is one of the first circuits I built last year. Someday I
may
> write
> > it up. Here is a summary of the board facilities and a picture:
> > http://home.austin.rr.com/perks/basicx/DevelopmentBoard.htm
> >
> > Mike
> >
>
> As I mentioned in the beginning, I am just trying to be generous
and
> build a community of users to share with. I personally don't
think
> most of use can afford to pay jobbers to make small runs of
boards,
> but I want to verify that I can build a one-sided, usable BX-35
board.
>
> Your board's schematic is very helpful to confirm operable
values. I
> will compare in detail to try to solve my confusion about the 100k
> pull-up resistors in NetMedia's schematic.
>
> Regarding my board at this time.
> I am a bit concerned with the PROM layout as I have read that the
> power drain of using Flash can in some instances cause a failure
to
> write properly. I think the ground wire is too small.
>
> I have one built for testing, but am now building the programing
> interface [DB-9 and MAX232]. Once I have a whole set [two
boards],
> then I can actually see if the programing is okay.


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I thought about express PCB, but I did not like their layout program.
I prefer Eagle. It is less intuitive at first, but seems to be more
versatile, I like the auto router to get ideas of where traces might
go, then I optimize the really important ones, then let the rest get
autorouted.

Sparkfun offers $5 per sq. in. with silkscreen and soldermask. Pretty
good deal. I have not yet personally ordered a board, but I will do
so SOON!

-Tony --- In basicx@basi..., "Tom Becker" <gtbecker@r...> wrote:
> > ... I [] don't think most of [us] can afford to pay jobbers to make
> small runs of boards...
>
> First-rate boards can be designed and verified on your machine with
> free tools, ordered automatically online and delivered in days for
> less than most processor costs. I can't imagine better service.
>
> I use Express PCB, an Oregon company that will surely deliver to
> Taiwan, and I am, presumptuously, certain you have similar services
on
> or near the island.
>
> See http://groups.yahoo.com/group/basicx/links/ > Tom


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