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Hi. I am a newbie in the fascinating world of BasicX. I have a BX-24
and had started a project of using BX-24 to run an H-bridge motor
controller. FYI, I am a Mechanical Engineer myself, so electronics is
not my strong suit. BUT, somehow I learned a lot from the net.

Anyway, when I started to build my H-bridge MOSFET Driver using
Microchip's TC4469 (as what is quite low-cost and simple), I blew up
my N-channel MOSFET. GREAT.... I had followed as what recomended but
it ended up as it is.

Only later when I check the logic input side and the logic output
side, I notice something is wrong. Please look at the link below
ww1.microchip.com/downloads/en/appnotes/00807a.pdf
www.datasheetcatalog.org/datasheet/microchip/21425b.pdf

When it was given the instructions to go forward, pin 2 is Low and
pin 5 and 8 is PWM or just High, the output pin of 13 and 11 is High.
As you can see, both is driving the motor on the +ve side, therefore
my low side N-channel explode. It's actually quite loud. So, after
troubleshooting, I end up killing my 18V Zener diode, my TC4469 and
my N-channel MOSFET.

My thinking now is that I need to re-route my wirings and having pin
4, 6 and 13 attached (not 4, 9 and 13 as recomended) as well as 9
with 12 (not 6 and 12 again, as recomended). That should solve the
problem I guess.

So, the reason of me writing my first ever posting (long as well), is
for all to know the SMALL PROBLEM with TC4469 and to get comments as
of my re-routing.

Thank you in advance and hope that I'm correct.

Best regards.
HM Wong
------------------------------------



(You need to be a member of basicx -- send a blank email to basicx-subscribe@yahoogroups.com )

Hi,
I checked the TC4469 your are right the circuit is energizing the two left mosfet causing a short to ground. I think the only you have to do switched pins 11 and 10. This will enable? the left mosfet that supply the voltage through the motor and the right mosfet that supply the ground when rev = 0. My suggestion to you is to use a fuse of 1.2 amp to pin 14? until you debug the logic. This is the max. load that the TC4469 can handle.
Good luck!
rosarite

www.datasheetcatalog.org/datasheet/microchip/21425b.pdf

-----Original Message-----
From: hmwong76
To: b...@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tue, 6 May 2008 10:59 pm
Subject: [BasicX] H-Bridge issue

Hi. I am a newbie in the fascinating world of BasicX. I have a BX-24

and had started a project of using BX-24 to run an H-bridge motor

controller. FYI, I am a Mechanical Engineer myself, so electronics is

not my strong suit. BUT, somehow I learned a lot from the net.

Anyway, when I started to build my H-bridge MOSFET Driver using

Microchip's TC4469 (as what is quite low-cost and simple), I blew up

my N-channel MOSFET. GREAT.... I had followed as what recomended but

it ended up as it is.

Only later when I check the logic input side and the logic output

side, I notice something is wrong. Please look at the link below

ww1.microchip.com/downloads/en/appnotes/00807a.pdf

www.datasheetcatalog.org/datasheet/microchip/21425b.pdf

When it was given the instructions to go forward, pin 2 is Low and

pin 5 and 8 is PWM or just High, the output pin of 13 and 11 is High.

As you can see, both is driving the motor on the +ve side, therefore

my low side N-channel explode. It's actually quite loud. So, after

troubleshooting, I end up killing my 18V Zener diode, my TC4469 and

my N-channel MOSFET.

My thinking now is that I need to re-route my wirings and having pin

4, 6 and 13 attached (not 4, 9 and 13 as recomended) as well as 9

with 12 (not 6 and 12 again, as recomended). That should solve the

problem I guess.

So, the reason of me writing my first ever posting (long as well), is

for all to know the SMALL PROBLEM with TC4469 and to get comments as

of my re-routing.

Thank you in advance and hope that I'm correct.

Best regards.

HM Wong

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
------------------------------------

______________________________
Stellaris® MCU Family: New Parts, New Package, New Price.


(You need to be a member of basicx -- send a blank email to basicx-subscribe@yahoogroups.com )

Hi HM Wong,

I haven't had direct experience with the TC4469 driving a H-Bridge but
my take on the use of 2 N-Channel FETs and 2 P-Channel FETs in the
bridge configuration to the DC motor suggests that the on/off logic output
by the TC4469 IS logically correct in the schematic.

I suspect that there is a wiring fault in your layout. The loss of the zener
suggests that something was wired differently than the example circuit.

You may want to go over the components (and polarities), the wiring
and layout to be sure that it is as you think. The schematic is correct.

Best Regards, Eric

----- Original Message -----
From: hmwong76
To: b...@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, May 06, 2008 8:59 PM
Subject: [BasicX] H-Bridge issue
Hi. I am a newbie in the fascinating world of BasicX. I have a BX-24
and had started a project of using BX-24 to run an H-bridge motor
controller. FYI, I am a Mechanical Engineer myself, so electronics is
not my strong suit. BUT, somehow I learned a lot from the net.

Anyway, when I started to build my H-bridge MOSFET Driver using
Microchip's TC4469 (as what is quite low-cost and simple), I blew up
my N-channel MOSFET. GREAT.... I had followed as what recomended but
it ended up as it is.

Only later when I check the logic input side and the logic output
side, I notice something is wrong. Please look at the link below
ww1.microchip.com/downloads/en/appnotes/00807a.pdf
www.datasheetcatalog.org/datasheet/microchip/21425b.pdf

When it was given the instructions to go forward, pin 2 is Low and
pin 5 and 8 is PWM or just High, the output pin of 13 and 11 is High.
As you can see, both is driving the motor on the +ve side, therefore
my low side N-channel explode. It's actually quite loud. So, after
troubleshooting, I end up killing my 18V Zener diode, my TC4469 and
my N-channel MOSFET.

My thinking now is that I need to re-route my wirings and having pin
4, 6 and 13 attached (not 4, 9 and 13 as recomended) as well as 9
with 12 (not 6 and 12 again, as recomended). That should solve the
problem I guess.

So, the reason of me writing my first ever posting (long as well), is
for all to know the SMALL PROBLEM with TC4469 and to get comments as
of my re-routing.

Thank you in advance and hope that I'm correct.

Best regards.
HM Wong

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
------------------------------------

______________________________
Stellaris® MCU Family: New Parts, New Package, New Price.


(You need to be a member of basicx -- send a blank email to basicx-subscribe@yahoogroups.com )

Thank you for both, eserdhal@ and r...@aol.com for the quick
reply. Will check over the logics as well as the polarities of all
the components. Well, kinda treat this as a lesson, more like less-
than-RM20 lesson or less-than-USD6.14 lesson. Still, thanks for your
inputs.

Regards.
HM Wong
--- In b...@yahoogroups.com, "eserdahl@" wrote:
>
> Hi HM Wong,
>
> I haven't had direct experience with the TC4469 driving a H-Bridge
but
> my take on the use of 2 N-Channel FETs and 2 P-Channel FETs in the
> bridge configuration to the DC motor suggests that the on/off logic
output
> by the TC4469 IS logically correct in the schematic.
>
> I suspect that there is a wiring fault in your layout. The loss of
the zener
> suggests that something was wired differently than the example
circuit.
>
> You may want to go over the components (and polarities), the wiring
> and layout to be sure that it is as you think. The schematic is
correct.
>
> Best Regards, Eric
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: hmwong76
> To: b...@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Tuesday, May 06, 2008 8:59 PM
> Subject: [BasicX] H-Bridge issue
> Hi. I am a newbie in the fascinating world of BasicX. I have a BX-
24
> and had started a project of using BX-24 to run an H-bridge motor
> controller. FYI, I am a Mechanical Engineer myself, so
electronics is
> not my strong suit. BUT, somehow I learned a lot from the net.
>
> Anyway, when I started to build my H-bridge MOSFET Driver using
> Microchip's TC4469 (as what is quite low-cost and simple), I blew
up
> my N-channel MOSFET. GREAT.... I had followed as what recomended
but
> it ended up as it is.
>
> Only later when I check the logic input side and the logic output
> side, I notice something is wrong. Please look at the link below
> ww1.microchip.com/downloads/en/appnotes/00807a.pdf
> www.datasheetcatalog.org/datasheet/microchip/21425b.pdf
>
> When it was given the instructions to go forward, pin 2 is Low
and
> pin 5 and 8 is PWM or just High, the output pin of 13 and 11 is
High.
> As you can see, both is driving the motor on the +ve side,
therefore
> my low side N-channel explode. It's actually quite loud. So,
after
> troubleshooting, I end up killing my 18V Zener diode, my TC4469
and
> my N-channel MOSFET.
>
> My thinking now is that I need to re-route my wirings and having
pin
> 4, 6 and 13 attached (not 4, 9 and 13 as recomended) as well as 9
> with 12 (not 6 and 12 again, as recomended). That should solve
the
> problem I guess.
>
> So, the reason of me writing my first ever posting (long as
well), is
> for all to know the SMALL PROBLEM with TC4469 and to get comments
as
> of my re-routing.
>
> Thank you in advance and hope that I'm correct.
>
> Best regards.
> HM Wong
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

------------------------------------

______________________________
Stellaris® MCU Family: New Parts, New Package, New Price.


(You need to be a member of basicx -- send a blank email to basicx-subscribe@yahoogroups.com )

HM Wong,

Just curious - how much current do you need for your motors? I'm very
fond of the LMD18200 H-Bridge, which is good for 3A continous and 6A
peak. It's simple to control with any MCU and makes a low-parts-count
controller.

Regards,
Don
------------------------------------



(You need to be a member of basicx -- send a blank email to basicx-subscribe@yahoogroups.com )

Hi,
I double checked and I was wrong. The circuit is OKAY. I overlooked that the top mosfets? are P-channel and the bottom ones are N-channels. Sorry for the misleading.

Rosarite

-----Original Message-----
From: hmwong76
To: b...@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thu, 8 May 2008 4:43 am
Subject: [BasicX] Re: H-Bridge issue

Thank you for both, eserdhal@ and r...@aol.com for the quick

reply. Will check over the logics as well as the polarities of all

the components. Well, kinda treat this as a lesson, more like less-

than-RM20 lesson or less-than-USD6.14 lesson. Still, thanks for your

inputs.

Regards.

HM Wong

--- In b...@yahoogroups.com, "eserdahl@" wrote:

>

> Hi HM Wong,

>

> I haven't had direct experience with the TC4469 driving a H-Bridge

but

> my take on the use of 2 N-Channel FETs and 2 P-Channel FETs in the

> bridge configuration to the DC motor suggests that the on/off logic

output

> by the TC4469 IS logically correct in the schematic.

>

> I suspect that there is a wiring fault in your layout. The loss of

the zener

> suggests that something was wired differently than the example

circuit.

>

> You may want to go over the components (and polarities), the wiring

> and layout to be sure that it is as you think. The schematic is

correct.

>

> Best Regards, Eric

>

> ----- Original Message -----

> From: hmwong76

> To: b...@yahoogroups.com

> Sent: Tuesday, May 06, 2008 8:59 PM

> Subject: [BasicX] H-Bridge issue

>

>

> Hi. I am a newbie in the fascinating world of BasicX. I have a BX-

24

> and had started a project of using BX-24 to run an H-bridge motor

> controller. FYI, I am a Mechanical Engineer myself, so

electronics is

> not my strong suit. BUT, somehow I learned a lot from the net.

>

> Anyway, when I started to build my H-bridge MOSFET Driver using

> Microchip's TC4469 (as what is quite low-cost and simple), I blew

up

> my N-channel MOSFET. GREAT.... I had followed as what recomended

but

> it ended up as it is.

>

> Only later when I check the logic input side and the logic output

> side, I notice something is wrong. Please look at the link below

> ww1.microchip.com/downloads/en/appnotes/00807a.pdf

> www.datasheetcatalog.org/datasheet/microchip/21425b.pdf

>

> When it was given the instructions to go forward, pin 2 is Low

and

> pin 5 and 8 is PWM or just High, the output pin of 13 and 11 is

High.

> As you can see, both is driving the motor on the +ve side,

therefore

> my low side N-channel explode. It's actually quite loud. So,

after

> troubleshooting, I end up killing my 18V Zener diode, my TC4469

and

> my N-channel MOSFET.

>

> My thinking now is that I need to re-route my wirings and having

pin

> 4, 6 and 13 attached (not 4, 9 and 13 as recomended) as well as 9

> with 12 (not 6 and 12 again, as recomended). That should solve

the

> problem I guess.

>

> So, the reason of me writing my first ever posting (long as

well), is

> for all to know the SMALL PROBLEM with TC4469 and to get comments

as

> of my re-routing.

>

> Thank you in advance and hope that I'm correct.

>

> Best regards.

> HM Wong

>

>

>

>

>

> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>

________________________________________________________________________
Stand above the crowd! Get a free email address that expresses who you are at http://domains.aol.com
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
------------------------------------

______________________________
Stellaris® MCU Family: New Parts, New Package, New Price.


(You need to be a member of basicx -- send a blank email to basicx-subscribe@yahoogroups.com )

Don,

I did a search on the LMD18200, it's great and seems as what you
commented, low-parts-count. I would say my running spec falls within
the capability of the LMD18200. I'm only running the motor at 14.4V,
with 24V battery setup, peak current usage (provided not stalled)
might just go up to about 5A.

At the end of the day, I would say it falls back onto myself. I
wanted to learn the very basic of using MOSFETs and it's driver.
Learning from the bottom up I guess. For simplicity sake, without a
doubt LMD18200 is the way to go. For learning purposes of building up
the whole circuit, I guess using discreet components (have to admit
that TC4469 is an IC) will allow my learning from the basics.

Regards.

--- In b...@yahoogroups.com, "Don LeRoi" wrote:
>
> HM Wong,
>
> Just curious - how much current do you need for your motors? I'm
very
> fond of the LMD18200 H-Bridge, which is good for 3A continous and
6A
> peak. It's simple to control with any MCU and makes a low-parts-
count
> controller.
>
> Regards,
> Don
>

------------------------------------



(You need to be a member of basicx -- send a blank email to basicx-subscribe@yahoogroups.com )

Hi there everyone.

There is a saying, "Knowledge without thinking is useless. Thinking
without knowledge is dangerous". Well, if my memory serves me right
and frankly, I came to agree that saying.

So far, of all my tryouts, the MOSFET Driver TC4469 logic drive is
correct, just a matter of wrong wiring to the high side and low side
MOSFET groups. Nevermind, swallow that failure and end up with dead
TC4469, a 18V diode, an IRFZ44.

Rectify the problem later, when everything seems ok with my trusty
DMM (no shorts due to my amature soldering, voltage drop check,
etc.), together with my 14.4VDC cordless drill motor, it started to
run with no problem but it just would not stop. Meaning, dead IRFZ44
and IRF4905. Found out that 2 possibilities, as mentioned by fellow
forumers in other thread, Gate current too high and also the back EMF
is too high for the internal diode. Hard to swallow but still, life
goes on.

Rectify the problem (again), DMM voltage poking seems everything
performs nicely. Start to provide signal, a small popping sound was
heard. Again, a blown IRFZ44 and IRF4905. So bitter, but hey, "Life's
a box of chocolates, ya never know what ya gonna get".

Still, my desire to learn the ropes is high. Having said that, is
there still something I missed out or is it that the trade of
matching components has some hidden secrets in which I had not learn
through my mistakes?

There are so many projects available on the net which involves
driving MOSFETs seems to be so simple and with no protection. How
does mine differs so much from others?

Sorry for those who sees this reply as a ranting but I am sure even
some BasicX programmers face many H-Bridge or MOSFET driving issues.

Regards.
------------------------------------



(You need to be a member of basicx -- send a blank email to basicx-subscribe@yahoogroups.com )

Hi,

Hey your are not along. Most of us learned in the way your are going through. Learning electronics is not so easy as? the people think. Sometime you have to learned front mistakes. Nobody like it but that's is the only? way to learn alone.

across each I was going to give you an advice with your project if you one to try it again. If I were you I add one diode 1N4002mosfet. On the top mosfet install a diode with the cathode or the band of the the diode to the drain and the anode to the? source. On the bottom one the diode band should be on the source and the anode to ground. What you are doing is bypass the kick back from the motor when you open the mosfet. Because the mosfet you are using is 60 volts 50 amps. No way the load is killing does mosfet.It is the voltage front the motor when you open the mosfet.

Good luck

rosarite

-----Original Message-----
From: hmwong76
To: b...@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wed, 14 May 2008 9:35 am
Subject: [BasicX] Re: H-Bridge issue

Hi there everyone.

There is a saying, "Knowledge without thinking is useless. Thinking

without knowledge is dangerous". Well, if my memory serves me right

and frankly, I came to agree that saying.

So far, of all my tryouts, the MOSFET Driver TC4469 logic drive is

correct, just a matter of wrong wiring to the high side and low side

MOSFET groups. Nevermind, swallow that failure and end up with dead

TC4469, a 18V diode, an IRFZ44.

Rectify the problem later, when everything seems ok with my trusty

DMM (no shorts due to my amature soldering, voltage drop check,

etc.), together with my 14.4VDC cordless drill motor, it started to

run with no problem but it just would not stop. Meaning, dead IRFZ44

and IRF4905. Found out that 2 possibilities, as mentioned by fellow

forumers in other thread, Gate current too high and also the back EMF

is too high for the internal diode. Hard to swallow but still, life

goes on.

Rectify the problem (again), DMM voltage poking seems everything

performs nicely. Start to provide signal, a small popping sound was

heard. Again, a blown IRFZ44 and IRF4905. So bitter, but hey, "Life's

a box of chocolates, ya never know what ya gonna get".

Still, my desire to learn the ropes is high. Having said that, is

there still something I missed out or is it that the trade of

matching components has some hidden secrets in which I had not learn

through my mistakes?

There are so many projects available on the net which involves

driving MOSFETs seems to be so simple and with no protection. How

does mine differs so much from others?

Sorry for those who sees this reply as a ranting but I am sure even

some BasicX programmers face many H-Bridge or MOSFET driving issues.

Regards.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
------------------------------------



(You need to be a member of basicx -- send a blank email to basicx-subscribe@yahoogroups.com )

HM,

Can you post the schematic?

- Don
------------------------------------

______________________________
Stellaris® MCU Family: New Parts, New Package, New Price.


(You need to be a member of basicx -- send a blank email to basicx-subscribe@yahoogroups.com )

All,
I think if you don't smoke some cheap parts in the begining
you will probably smoke some expensive parts later. I have
built my own H-bridge and after awhile it worked but I eventually
gave in and started using an off the shelf unit. I like the L298N multiwatt
style (from ST Microelectronics) but you have to remember to add good diodes
to squelch the back
emf. I used UC3611N (8 pin dip from TI).
Good luck
Harry
_____

From: b...@yahoogroups.com [mailto:b...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
r...@aol.com
Sent: Wednesday, May 14, 2008 12:57 PM
To: b...@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [BasicX] Re: H-Bridge issue

Hi,

Hey your are not along. Most of us learned in the way your are going
through. Learning electronics is not so easy as? the people think. Sometime
you have to learned front mistakes. Nobody like it but that's is the only?
way to learn alone.

across each I was going to give you an advice with your project if you one
to try it again. If I were you I add one diode 1N4002mosfet. On the top
mosfet install a diode with the cathode or the band of the the diode to the
drain and the anode to the? source. On the bottom one the diode band should
be on the source and the anode to ground. What you are doing is bypass the
kick back from the motor when you open the mosfet. Because the mosfet you
are using is 60 volts 50 amps. No way the load is killing does mosfet.It is
the voltage front the motor when you open the mosfet.

Good luck

rosarite

-----Original Message-----
From: hmwong76 com>
To: basicx@yahoogroups. com
Sent: Wed, 14 May 2008 9:35 am
Subject: [BasicX] Re: H-Bridge issue

Hi there everyone.

There is a saying, "Knowledge without thinking is useless. Thinking

without knowledge is dangerous". Well, if my memory serves me right

and frankly, I came to agree that saying.

So far, of all my tryouts, the MOSFET Driver TC4469 logic drive is

correct, just a matter of wrong wiring to the high side and low side

MOSFET groups. Nevermind, swallow that failure and end up with dead

TC4469, a 18V diode, an IRFZ44.

Rectify the problem later, when everything seems ok with my trusty

DMM (no shorts due to my amature soldering, voltage drop check,

etc.), together with my 14.4VDC cordless drill motor, it started to

run with no problem but it just would not stop. Meaning, dead IRFZ44

and IRF4905. Found out that 2 possibilities, as mentioned by fellow

forumers in other thread, Gate current too high and also the back EMF

is too high for the internal diode. Hard to swallow but still, life

goes on.

Rectify the problem (again), DMM voltage poking seems everything

performs nicely. Start to provide signal, a small popping sound was

heard. Again, a blown IRFZ44 and IRF4905. So bitter, but hey, "Life's

a box of chocolates, ya never know what ya gonna get".

Still, my desire to learn the ropes is high. Having said that, is

there still something I missed out or is it that the trade of

matching components has some hidden secrets in which I had not learn

through my mistakes?

There are so many projects available on the net which involves

driving MOSFETs seems to be so simple and with no protection. How

does mine differs so much from others?

Sorry for those who sees this reply as a ranting but I am sure even

some BasicX programmers face many H-Bridge or MOSFET driving issues.

Regards.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
------------------------------------

______________________________
Stellaris® MCU Family: New Parts, New Package, New Price.


(You need to be a member of basicx -- send a blank email to basicx-subscribe@yahoogroups.com )

Hi,

First and foremost, thank you for sticking up. Anyway, as for the
schematic diagram, it can be found in the BasicX's file section or
you can go to

http://f1.grp.yahoofs.com/v1/
0DMsSIi2OrZflQ47CT5P194cWaRZ8wh7Jf_6xt1msDP3rtaTXVD7N1331di8DnDnzQtS7_GHoVJITh3KT-
s3gJTyUnQ5/Sketches/schematic.GIF

Thanks.

Regards.
--- In b...@yahoogroups.com, "Don LeRoi" wrote:
>
> HM,
>
> Can you post the schematic?
>
> - Don
>

------------------------------------



(You need to be a member of basicx -- send a blank email to basicx-subscribe@yahoogroups.com )

Hi there Harry. Thanks for the advice and appreciate that. That's a
wise thought you got there. Glad you can share your view on that. The
L298N seems similar to the previous suggested LMD18200. As mentioned
earlier, I wish to learn the ropes. I would give it a few more tries
and if that day comes, will go for the off the shelf units. Thanks.

Regards.

--- In b...@yahoogroups.com, "Harry J. White" wrote:
>
> All,
> I think if you don't smoke some cheap parts in the begining
> you will probably smoke some expensive parts later. I have
> built my own H-bridge and after awhile it worked but I eventually
> gave in and started using an off the shelf unit. I like the L298N
multiwatt
> style (from ST Microelectronics) but you have to remember to add
good diodes
> to squelch the back
> emf. I used UC3611N (8 pin dip from TI).
> Good luck
> Harry
> _____
>
> From: b...@yahoogroups.com [mailto:b...@yahoogroups.com] On
Behalf Of
> rosarite@...
> Sent: Wednesday, May 14, 2008 12:57 PM
> To: b...@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [BasicX] Re: H-Bridge issue
> Hi,
>
> Hey your are not along. Most of us learned in the way your are going
> through. Learning electronics is not so easy as? the people think.
Sometime
> you have to learned front mistakes. Nobody like it but that's is
the only?
> way to learn alone.
>
> across each I was going to give you an advice with your project if
you one
> to try it again. If I were you I add one diode 1N4002mosfet. On the
top
> mosfet install a diode with the cathode or the band of the the
diode to the
> drain and the anode to the? source. On the bottom one the diode
band should
> be on the source and the anode to ground. What you are doing is
bypass the
> kick back from the motor when you open the mosfet. Because the
mosfet you
> are using is 60 volts 50 amps. No way the load is killing does
mosfet.It is
> the voltage front the motor when you open the mosfet.
>
> Good luck
>
> rosarite
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: hmwong76 com>
> To: basicx@yahoogroups. com
> Sent: Wed, 14 May 2008 9:35 am
> Subject: [BasicX] Re: H-Bridge issue
>
> Hi there everyone.
>
> There is a saying, "Knowledge without thinking is useless. Thinking
>
> without knowledge is dangerous". Well, if my memory serves me right
>
> and frankly, I came to agree that saying.
>
> So far, of all my tryouts, the MOSFET Driver TC4469 logic drive is
>
> correct, just a matter of wrong wiring to the high side and low
side
>
> MOSFET groups. Nevermind, swallow that failure and end up with dead
>
> TC4469, a 18V diode, an IRFZ44.
>
> Rectify the problem later, when everything seems ok with my trusty
>
> DMM (no shorts due to my amature soldering, voltage drop check,
>
> etc.), together with my 14.4VDC cordless drill motor, it started to
>
> run with no problem but it just would not stop. Meaning, dead
IRFZ44
>
> and IRF4905. Found out that 2 possibilities, as mentioned by fellow
>
> forumers in other thread, Gate current too high and also the back
EMF
>
> is too high for the internal diode. Hard to swallow but still, life
>
> goes on.
>
> Rectify the problem (again), DMM voltage poking seems everything
>
> performs nicely. Start to provide signal, a small popping sound was
>
> heard. Again, a blown IRFZ44 and IRF4905. So bitter, but hey,
"Life's
>
> a box of chocolates, ya never know what ya gonna get".
>
> Still, my desire to learn the ropes is high. Having said that, is
>
> there still something I missed out or is it that the trade of
>
> matching components has some hidden secrets in which I had not
learn
>
> through my mistakes?
>
> There are so many projects available on the net which involves
>
> driving MOSFETs seems to be so simple and with no protection. How
>
> does mine differs so much from others?
>
> Sorry for those who sees this reply as a ranting but I am sure even
>
> some BasicX programmers face many H-Bridge or MOSFET driving issues.
>
> Regards.
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

------------------------------------



(You need to be a member of basicx -- send a blank email to basicx-subscribe@yahoogroups.com )

Hi,

Regarding the .gif schematic, there are serious errors in the symbols and part
number labeling of the power MOSFETs. Please refer to the IR spec sheets
and the way H-Bridge circuits are wired. Google "H-bridge".

Best regards, Eric

----- Original Message -----
From: hmwong76
To: b...@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, May 15, 2008 6:18 AM
Subject: [BasicX] Re: H-Bridge issue
Hi,

First and foremost, thank you for sticking up. Anyway, as for the
schematic diagram, it can be found in the BasicX's file section or
you can go to

http://f1.grp.yahoofs.com/v1/
0DMsSIi2OrZflQ47CT5P194cWaRZ8wh7Jf_6xt1msDP3rtaTXVD7N1331di8DnDnzQtS7_GHoVJITh3KT-
s3gJTyUnQ5/Sketches/schematic.GIF

Thanks.

Regards.

--- In b...@yahoogroups.com, "Don LeRoi" wrote:
>
> HM,
>
> Can you post the schematic?
>
> - Don
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
------------------------------------

______________________________
Stellaris® MCU Family: New Parts, New Package, New Price.


(You need to be a member of basicx -- send a blank email to basicx-subscribe@yahoogroups.com )

HM,

As I said before, I use the LMD18200 for these circuits, so I'm not
very familiar with the discrete H-bridge circuits. However, I believe
that your circuit requires a low to turn on the p-channel mosfets and a
high to turn on the n-channel mosfets. The way you have the TC4469
wired appears to turn on the mosfets that are directly in series with
each other, rather than the ones that are on either side of the motor.

I think that pin 13 of the TC4469 should connect to pins 4 and 9 and
pin 12 should connect to pin 6 to get the right logic.

- Don
------------------------------------

______________________________
Stellaris® MCU Family: New Parts, New Package, New Price.


(You need to be a member of basicx -- send a blank email to basicx-subscribe@yahoogroups.com )

Hi there, sorry for that. Clean up the diagram abit, hope this
version will clear all the confusion. Again as before the link is

http://f1.grp.yahoofs.com/v1/
0BQtSK5Ri5wbxk5bPMDDlwUaSIP4DDzcAnL8J_4sb0KJQ9zd8Hl-
pTp_bT0h0B52NZw5De5FMFHCCBqIC78f86GC6Nt4/Sketches/schematic.GIF

Regards.

--- In b...@yahoogroups.com, "eserdahl@" wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> Regarding the .gif schematic, there are serious errors in the
symbols and part
> number labeling of the power MOSFETs. Please refer to the IR spec
sheets
> and the way H-Bridge circuits are wired. Google "H-bridge".
>
> Best regards, Eric
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: hmwong76
> To: b...@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Thursday, May 15, 2008 6:18 AM
> Subject: [BasicX] Re: H-Bridge issue
> Hi,
>
> First and foremost, thank you for sticking up. Anyway, as for the
> schematic diagram, it can be found in the BasicX's file section
or
> you can go to
>
> http://f1.grp.yahoofs.com/v1/
>
0DMsSIi2OrZflQ47CT5P194cWaRZ8wh7Jf_6xt1msDP3rtaTXVD7N1331di8DnDnzQtS7_GHoVJITh3KT-
> s3gJTyUnQ5/Sketches/schematic.GIF
>
> Thanks.
>
> Regards.
>
> --- In b...@yahoogroups.com, "Don LeRoi" wrote:
> >
> > HM,
> >
> > Can you post the schematic?
> >
> > - Don
> >
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

------------------------------------

______________________________
Stellaris® MCU Family: New Parts, New Package, New Price.


(You need to be a member of basicx -- send a blank email to basicx-subscribe@yahoogroups.com )

HM,

If your schematic is correct, your connections to the TC4469 give the
logic in your truth tables, which I think is wrong. I think what you
want is:

TC4469 Fwd. Rev.

13 1 (Off) 0 (On) Left P-Channel
12 0 (On) 1 (Off) Right P-Channel
11 1 (On) 0 (Off) Left N-Channel
10 0 (Off) 1 (On) Right N-Channel

You have pin 13 connected to pins 4 and 6 and pin 12 connected to pin
9. Connecting pin 13 to pins 4 and 9 and connecting pin 12 to pin 6
should give you the right logic.

- Don
------------------------------------



(You need to be a member of basicx -- send a blank email to basicx-subscribe@yahoogroups.com )

Hi Don. The way you put it, you are correct. Seems i
made a silly mistake then. Realizing this flaw, came
another question. I'm running with 24V, wouldn't at
whatever 12 or 0V at the high gate, the P MOSFET
would still be on?

Regards.
--- In b...@yahoogroups.com, "Don LeRoi"
..> wrote:
>
> HM,
>
> As I said before, I use the LMD18200 for these
circuits, so I'm not
> very familiar with the discrete H-bridge circuits.
However, I believe
> that your circuit requires a low to turn on the
p-channel mosfets and a
> high to turn on the n-channel mosfets. The way
you have the TC4469
> wired appears to turn on the mosfets that are
directly in series with
> each other, rather than the ones that are on
either side of the motor.
>
> I think that pin 13 of the TC4469 should connect
to pins 4 and 9 and
> pin 12 should connect to pin 6 to get the right
logic.
>
> - Don
>

------------------------------------



(You need to be a member of basicx -- send a blank email to basicx-subscribe@yahoogroups.com )

--- In b...@yahoogroups.com, "hmwong76" wrote:
>
> Hi Don. The way you put it, you are correct. Seems i
> made a silly mistake then. Realizing this flaw, came
> another question. I'm running with 24V, wouldn't at
> whatever 12 or 0V at the high gate, the P MOSFET
> would still be on?
>

HM,

I hadn't noticed that. Yes, the P-channel MOSFETs would always be on.
To run on 24V, you will need to do some level shifting in order to turn
the P-channel devices off.

- Don
------------------------------------



(You need to be a member of basicx -- send a blank email to basicx-subscribe@yahoogroups.com )

--- In b...@yahoogroups.com, "hmwong76" wrote:
>
> Hi Don. The way you put it, you are correct. Seems i
> made a silly mistake then. Realizing this flaw, came
> another question. I'm running with 24V, wouldn't at
> whatever 12 or 0V at the high gate, the P MOSFET
> would still be on?
>
> Regards.
HM,

Check out the schematic I put in the files section below yours for a
possible solution.

- Don
------------------------------------



(You need to be a member of basicx -- send a blank email to basicx-subscribe@yahoogroups.com )

Hi Don,

Thanks for your pointing me to the correct direction. Looking at your
schematics, switching off the MOSFET will be having the gate pull to
24V. Switching on the MOSFET, using pin 13 of TC4469 to on the
transistor so that the gate will then be pulled towards the ground. I
think it will work just that I concern of it being 0V. Can I add
another resistor between the transistor to ground of more than 10k to
raise the gate voltage higher than 12V. This is to have Vgs is -12V
and above. Afraid if pulled straight to ground, then Vgs is -24V,
more than rated -20V Vgs in the spec of IRF4905. Or is it I read
wrongly?

Thanks.

Regards.
--- In b...@yahoogroups.com, "Don LeRoi" wrote:
>
> --- In b...@yahoogroups.com, "hmwong76" wrote:
> >
> > Hi Don. The way you put it, you are correct. Seems i
> > made a silly mistake then. Realizing this flaw, came
> > another question. I'm running with 24V, wouldn't at
> > whatever 12 or 0V at the high gate, the P MOSFET
> > would still be on?
> >
> > Regards.
> >
> >
> HM,
>
> Check out the schematic I put in the files section below yours for
a
> possible solution.
>
> - Don
>

------------------------------------



(You need to be a member of basicx -- send a blank email to basicx-subscribe@yahoogroups.com )

--- In b...@yahoogroups.com, "hmwong76" wrote:
>
> Hi Don,
>
> Thanks for your pointing me to the correct direction. Looking at
your
> schematics, switching off the MOSFET will be having the gate pull
to
> 24V. Switching on the MOSFET, using pin 13 of TC4469 to on the
> transistor so that the gate will then be pulled towards the ground.
I
> think it will work just that I concern of it being 0V. Can I add
> another resistor between the transistor to ground of more than 10k
to
> raise the gate voltage higher than 12V. This is to have Vgs is -12V
> and above. Afraid if pulled straight to ground, then Vgs is -24V,
> more than rated -20V Vgs in the spec of IRF4905. Or is it I read
> wrongly?
>
> Thanks.
>
> Regards.
>

HM,

If Vgs is a problem, you might replace the 10K pullup resistor with 2
resistors in series to divide the voltage.

- Don
------------------------------------



(You need to be a member of basicx -- send a blank email to basicx-subscribe@yahoogroups.com )

Don, you are my saviour. Will get the components ASAP as it's a 3 day
holiday here, have to wait till tomorrow. Will post the latest of my
adventure. Hope everything will be alright.

Regards.
--- In b...@yahoogroups.com, "Don LeRoi" wrote:
>
> --- In b...@yahoogroups.com, "hmwong76" wrote:
> >
> > Hi Don,
> >
> > Thanks for your pointing me to the correct direction. Looking at
> your
> > schematics, switching off the MOSFET will be having the gate pull
> to
> > 24V. Switching on the MOSFET, using pin 13 of TC4469 to on the
> > transistor so that the gate will then be pulled towards the
ground.
> I
> > think it will work just that I concern of it being 0V. Can I add
> > another resistor between the transistor to ground of more than
10k
> to
> > raise the gate voltage higher than 12V. This is to have Vgs is -
12V
> > and above. Afraid if pulled straight to ground, then Vgs is -24V,
> > more than rated -20V Vgs in the spec of IRF4905. Or is it I read
> > wrongly?
> >
> > Thanks.
> >
> > Regards.
> > HM,
>
> If Vgs is a problem, you might replace the 10K pullup resistor with
2
> resistors in series to divide the voltage.
>
> - Don
>

------------------------------------



(You need to be a member of basicx -- send a blank email to basicx-subscribe@yahoogroups.com )

Hi Don,

Manage to rewire my whole setup with the 2N3904 transistors and
voltage dividing series resistors. I think I have found another
problem.

Seems that on the same side of the motor, the MOSFETs are turned on.
As of giving the direction signal LO (pin 2) and PWM HI (pin 5 and 8)
would yield output of pin 13 (High MOSFET left) HI , pin 12 (High
MOSFET right) LO, pin 11 (Low MOSFET left) HI and pin 10 (Low MOSFET
right) LO. If they were using the same voltage of the motor and the
TC4469 and turning off and on the MOSFETs, it would yield High side
right MOSFET on (P channel) and Low side left MOSFET on (N channel).

However, once start using the transistors, HI from pin 13 and 12
means pulling the series resistors to the ground, thus making the
MOSFET gate registering 12V from the original 24V. This would means
switching on the MOSFET. Somehow it inverts the overall intention.

I had checked my wiring of TC4469, going back to the original setup
connecting pin 13 with pin 4 and 9 while in 12 connect with pin 6.

I think I need to rewire the overall setup to prevent the MOSFETs
turned on, on the same side.

Regards.
--- In b...@yahoogroups.com, "Don LeRoi" wrote:
>
> --- In b...@yahoogroups.com, "hmwong76" wrote:
> >
> > Hi Don,
> >
> > Thanks for your pointing me to the correct direction. Looking at
> your
> > schematics, switching off the MOSFET will be having the gate pull
> to
> > 24V. Switching on the MOSFET, using pin 13 of TC4469 to on the
> > transistor so that the gate will then be pulled towards the
ground.
> I
> > think it will work just that I concern of it being 0V. Can I add
> > another resistor between the transistor to ground of more than
10k
> to
> > raise the gate voltage higher than 12V. This is to have Vgs is -
12V
> > and above. Afraid if pulled straight to ground, then Vgs is -24V,
> > more than rated -20V Vgs in the spec of IRF4905. Or is it I read
> > wrongly?
> >
> > Thanks.
> >
> > Regards.
> > HM,
>
> If Vgs is a problem, you might replace the 10K pullup resistor with
2
> resistors in series to divide the voltage.
>
> - Don
>

------------------------------------



(You need to be a member of basicx -- send a blank email to basicx-subscribe@yahoogroups.com )

--- In b...@yahoogroups.com, "hmwong76" wrote:
>
> Don, you are my saviour. Will get the components ASAP as it's a 3 day
> holiday here, have to wait till tomorrow. Will post the latest of my
> adventure. Hope everything will be alright.
>
> Regards.
>

HM,

Hmmm... I hope the suggestions turn out to warrant that!

Did you notice that with the transistors added for level shifting, the
logic goes back to what you had originally posted? That is - pin 13 of
the TC4469 is tied to pins 4&6 and pin 12 is tied to pin 9.

Good luck!

- Don
------------------------------------



(You need to be a member of basicx -- send a blank email to basicx-subscribe@yahoogroups.com )

Hi everyone,

Please to inform that I manage to make everything run. No more
burning MOSFET, diodes, etc. I think it would be most appropriate to
share it with everyone. The new schematic can be found at the link
below (as usual):

http://f1.grp.yahoofs.com/v1/UG41SHcmGChYa-
2fQRKl2OlPVYWLMhrHHEsJ9bcqHu6XaELlpHrNqPCcl5MzLxialF2iBKK_e1N0BdJiN_AY6Be42v-
R/Sketches/schematic.GIF

What rectifies all of the issues can be found in the schematic,
namely the use of shift level transistor, voltage dividing resistor
(in series), rewiring of the low side MOSFET gate and also add a 10
nF ceramic capacitor across the motor leads (to reduce noise as well
as voltage spike).

To Don, thanks a bunch. Definately will be still searching in the
dark without your enlightenment.

Regards.
--- In b...@yahoogroups.com, "hmwong76" wrote:
>
> Hi Don,
>
> Manage to rewire my whole setup with the 2N3904 transistors and
> voltage dividing series resistors. I think I have found another
> problem.
>
> Seems that on the same side of the motor, the MOSFETs are turned
on.
> As of giving the direction signal LO (pin 2) and PWM HI (pin 5 and
8)
> would yield output of pin 13 (High MOSFET left) HI , pin 12 (High
> MOSFET right) LO, pin 11 (Low MOSFET left) HI and pin 10 (Low
MOSFET
> right) LO. If they were using the same voltage of the motor and the
> TC4469 and turning off and on the MOSFETs, it would yield High side
> right MOSFET on (P channel) and Low side left MOSFET on (N channel).
>
> However, once start using the transistors, HI from pin 13 and 12
> means pulling the series resistors to the ground, thus making the
> MOSFET gate registering 12V from the original 24V. This would means
> switching on the MOSFET. Somehow it inverts the overall intention.
>
> I had checked my wiring of TC4469, going back to the original setup
> connecting pin 13 with pin 4 and 9 while in 12 connect with pin 6.
>
> I think I need to rewire the overall setup to prevent the MOSFETs
> turned on, on the same side.
>
> Regards.
> --- In b...@yahoogroups.com, "Don LeRoi" wrote:
> >
> > --- In b...@yahoogroups.com, "hmwong76" wrote:
> > >
> > > Hi Don,
> > >
> > > Thanks for your pointing me to the correct direction. Looking
at
> > your
> > > schematics, switching off the MOSFET will be having the gate
pull
> > to
> > > 24V. Switching on the MOSFET, using pin 13 of TC4469 to on the
> > > transistor so that the gate will then be pulled towards the
> ground.
> > I
> > > think it will work just that I concern of it being 0V. Can I
add
> > > another resistor between the transistor to ground of more than
> 10k
> > to
> > > raise the gate voltage higher than 12V. This is to have Vgs is -
> 12V
> > > and above. Afraid if pulled straight to ground, then Vgs is -
24V,
> > > more than rated -20V Vgs in the spec of IRF4905. Or is it I
read
> > > wrongly?
> > >
> > > Thanks.
> > >
> > > Regards.
> > >
> >
> > HM,
> >
> > If Vgs is a problem, you might replace the 10K pullup resistor
with
> 2
> > resistors in series to divide the voltage.
> >
> > - Don
>
------------------------------------



(You need to be a member of basicx -- send a blank email to basicx-subscribe@yahoogroups.com )

--- In b...@yahoogroups.com, "hmwong76" wrote:
>
> Hi everyone,
>
> Please to inform that I manage to make everything run. No more
> burning MOSFET, diodes, etc. I think it would be most appropriate to
> share it with everyone. The new schematic can be found at the link
> below (as usual):
>
> http://f1.grp.yahoofs.com/v1/UG41SHcmGChYa-
>
2fQRKl2OlPVYWLMhrHHEsJ9bcqHu6XaELlpHrNqPCcl5MzLxialF2iBKK_e1N0BdJiN_AY6B
e42v-
> R/Sketches/schematic.GIF

Nice work, HM!

------------------------------------



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