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I am taking a survey: For those of you who like to do assembly code, would you like us to package the same circuit as the BX24 as a assembly language downloadable device? You would have the Atmel 8535, the 8 ADC's, Serial Port, and LEDs, voltage regulator and crystal. No 25256 EEprom chip. You would get a 7.3728 MIPS device. Fast enough for almost any purpose. We would make a special downloading cable so that you could program the 8K of Flash, 512 bytes of RAM and 512 bytes of EEprom that is available on the 8535 chip. This would have to be a parallel port cable. Software is provided by Atmel for everything but the downloader. Code examples are available there too. There would be no operating system - you are on your own for everything, I mean everything. We would provide a CD with the assembler and simulator from Atmel and downloading cable for $29.95 and the AL24's (Assembly Language 24's) for $29.95 each We would only do this if there is enough demand. Any takers? Jack

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What I'd like is to have small assembly programs callable from basic. Maybe in the 512 bytes of Eeprom. 100% assembly is too much work without extensive libraries - like what's in basicx. Very little code is speed critical in my applications, but some IO code is ugly in basic and takes a lot of time compared to a half-dozen lines of assembly. mwf -----Original Message----- From: Jack Schoof [SMTP:] Sent: Friday, December 10, 1999 1:58 PM To: Subject: [BasicX] Assembly Language Only Version of BX24 From: "Jack Schoof" <> I am taking a survey: For those of you who like to do assembly code, would you like us to package the same circuit as the BX24 as a assembly language downloadable device? You would have the Atmel 8535, the 8 ADC's, Serial Port, and LEDs, voltage regulator and crystal. No 25256 EEprom chip. You would get a 7.3728 MIPS device. Fast enough for almost any purpose. We would make a special downloading cable so that you could program the 8K of Flash, 512 bytes of RAM and 512 bytes of EEprom that is available on the 8535 chip. This would have to be a parallel port cable. Software is provided by Atmel for everything but the downloader. Code examples are available there too. There would be no operating system - you are on your own for everything, I mean everything. We would provide a CD with the assembler and simulator from Atmel and downloading cable for $29.95 and the AL24's (Assembly Language 24's) for $29.95 each We would only do this if there is enough demand. Any takers? Jack --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Independent contractors: Find your next project gig through JobSwarm! You can even make $$$ by referring friends. <a href=" http://clickme.onelist.com/ad/jobswarm2 ">Click Here</a ------------------------------------------------------------------------

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Unfortunately the assembly code cannot be downloaded into the chip without destroying the operating system. The Flash has to be erased before programming. Even so, we do not have any more space in the flash since we took it all for the BasicX operating system. The AVR series of devices cannot execute code from anyplace other than its internal flash. Jack -----Original Message----- From: Mike Fellinger <> To: ' <> Date: Friday, December 10, 1999 2:46 PM Subject: RE: [BasicX] Assembly Language Only Version of BX24 >From: Mike Fellinger <> > >What I'd like is to have small assembly programs callable from basic. Maybe >in >the 512 bytes of Eeprom. 100% assembly is too much work without extensive >libraries - like what's in basicx. Very little code is speed critical in my >applications, >but some IO code is ugly in basic and takes a lot of time compared to a >half-dozen >lines of assembly. > >mwf > > -----Original Message----- > From: Jack Schoof [SMTP:] > Sent: Friday, December 10, 1999 1:58 PM > To: > Subject: [BasicX] Assembly Language Only Version of BX24 > > From: "Jack Schoof" <> > > I am taking a survey: > > For those of you who like to do assembly code, would you like us to >package > the same circuit as the BX24 as a assembly language downloadable >device? > > You would have the Atmel 8535, the 8 ADC's, Serial Port, and LEDs, >voltage > regulator and crystal. No 25256 EEprom chip. You would get a >7.3728 MIPS > device. Fast enough for almost any purpose. > > We would make a special downloading cable so that you could program >the 8K > of Flash, 512 bytes of RAM and 512 bytes of EEprom that is available >on the > 8535 chip. This would have to be a parallel port cable. > > Software is provided by Atmel for everything but the downloader. >Code > examples are available there too. > > There would be no operating system - you are on your own for >everything, I > mean everything. > > We would provide a CD with the assembler and simulator from Atmel >and > downloading cable for $29.95 and the AL24's (Assembly Language 24's) >for > $29.95 each > > We would only do this if there is enough demand. > > Any takers? > > Jack > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor >---------------------------- > > Independent contractors: Find your next project gig through >JobSwarm! > You can even make $$$ by referring friends. > <a href=" http://clickme.onelist.com/ad/jobswarm2 ">Click Here</a >------------------------------------------------------------------------

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Seems like it would be easier on you guys to provide the BX24 without OS as is -- let users make use of the EE. Since the AL24 volume is like to be less than the BX24, the cost of a potentially unused EE would probably be offset by the savings in manufacturing costs. Basically, aren't all BX24's AL24's until you put the OS in? -- Jon Williams PS: Since the VB-like nature of BasicX is so important, when will we see complex data types? "Jack Schoof" <jschoof@mail-ad To: <> dress.com> cc: Subject: [BasicX] Assembly Language Only Version of BX24 12/10/99 02:57 PM Please respond to basicx From: "Jack Schoof" <> I am taking a survey: For those of you who like to do assembly code, would you like us to package the same circuit as the BX24 as a assembly language downloadable device? You would have the Atmel 8535, the 8 ADC's, Serial Port, and LEDs, voltage regulator and crystal. No 25256 EEprom chip. You would get a 7.3728 MIPS device. Fast enough for almost any purpose. We would make a special downloading cable so that you could program the 8K of Flash, 512 bytes of RAM and 512 bytes of EEprom that is available on the 8535 chip. This would have to be a parallel port cable. Software is provided by Atmel for everything but the downloader. Code examples are available there too. There would be no operating system - you are on your own for everything, I mean everything. We would provide a CD with the assembler and simulator from Atmel and downloading cable for $29.95 and the AL24's (Assembly Language 24's) for $29.95 each We would only do this if there is enough demand. Any takers? Jack --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Independent contractors: Find your next project gig through JobSwarm! You can even make $$$ by referring friends. <a href=" http://clickme.onelist.com/ad/jobswarm2 ">Click Here</a

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I'm not much on pure assembly, but it definitely offers some merit. I would be more interested in some form of C language adaptation. But this can be accomplished with an ANSI compliant C compiler/linker which would output "BX24 Assembly". This would still allow users to develop, and share libraries. On the same note, a Forth compiler could also be written around the assembly set. To answer your question... Yes. ;-) ----- Original Message ----- From: Jack Schoof <> To: <> Sent: Friday, December 10, 1999 1:57 PM Subject: [BasicX] Assembly Language Only Version of BX24 > From: "Jack Schoof" <> > > I am taking a survey: > > For those of you who like to do assembly code, would you like us to package > the same circuit as the BX24 as a assembly language downloadable device? > > You would have the Atmel 8535, the 8 ADC's, Serial Port, and LEDs, voltage > regulator and crystal. No 25256 EEprom chip. You would get a 7.3728 MIPS > device. Fast enough for almost any purpose. > > We would make a special downloading cable so that you could program the 8K > of Flash, 512 bytes of RAM and 512 bytes of EEprom that is available on the > 8535 chip. This would have to be a parallel port cable. > > Software is provided by Atmel for everything but the downloader. Code > examples are available there too. > > There would be no operating system - you are on your own for everything, I > mean everything. > > We would provide a CD with the assembler and simulator from Atmel and > downloading cable for $29.95 and the AL24's (Assembly Language 24's) for > $29.95 each > > We would only do this if there is enough demand. > > Any takers? > > Jack > >

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We could leave the 25256 in, it is a relatively expensive part, especially if you dont need it. By complex data types, do you mean user definable types, like records? Or something very complex like classes and objects? The nature of a BX24 with only 400 bytes of Ram doesnt lend itself to too many complex data types. If you want to make a record, you can use the fact that global data is created together in RAM. For example: dim my_a as integer dim my_b as integer dim my_c as single dim another_a as integer dim another_b as integer dim another_c as single ... sub main() ... call puteeprom(someaddress,my_a,8) 'places all 8 bytes from my_a to my_c into eeprom ... call geteeprom(someaddress,my_a,8) 'retrieves all 8 bytes from my_a to my_c from eeprom ... call blockmove(8,my_a,another_a) 'moves record "my" to the record called "another" end sub Jack -----Original Message----- From: <> To: <> Date: Friday, December 10, 1999 3:46 PM Subject: Re: [BasicX] Assembly Language Only Version of BX24 >From: >Seems like it would be easier on you guys to provide the BX24 without OS as >is -- let users make use of the EE. Since the AL24 volume is like to be >less than the BX24, the cost of a potentially unused EE would probably be >offset by the savings in manufacturing costs. Basically, aren't all BX24's >AL24's until you put the OS in? > >-- Jon Williams > >PS: Since the VB-like nature of BasicX is so important, when will we see >complex data types?

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There is a GNU implementation for AVR devices for a C compiler. This outputs direct assembly code. As for outputting BX24 assembly, whew! Dont think so - at least not from here. Check out the AVR ring at http://www.webring.com/cgi-bin/webring?ring=avr;list Jack -----Original Message----- From: Kyle Mallory <> To: <> Date: Friday, December 10, 1999 4:36 PM Subject: Re: [BasicX] Assembly Language Only Version of BX24 >From: "Kyle Mallory" <> > >I'm not much on pure assembly, but it definitely offers some merit. I would >be more interested in some form of C language adaptation. But this can be >accomplished with an ANSI compliant C compiler/linker which would output >"BX24 Assembly". This would still allow users to develop, and share >libraries. > >On the same note, a Forth compiler could also be written around the assembly >set. > >To answer your question... Yes. ;-) > >----- Original Message ----- >From: Jack Schoof <> >To: <> >Sent: Friday, December 10, 1999 1:57 PM >Subject: [BasicX] Assembly Language Only Version of BX24 >> From: "Jack Schoof" <> >> >> I am taking a survey: >> >> For those of you who like to do assembly code, would you like us to >package >> the same circuit as the BX24 as a assembly language downloadable device? >> >> You would have the Atmel 8535, the 8 ADC's, Serial Port, and LEDs, voltage >> regulator and crystal. No 25256 EEprom chip. You would get a 7.3728 >MIPS >> device. Fast enough for almost any purpose. >> >> We would make a special downloading cable so that you could program the 8K >> of Flash, 512 bytes of RAM and 512 bytes of EEprom that is available on >the >> 8535 chip. This would have to be a parallel port cable. >> >> Software is provided by Atmel for everything but the downloader. Code >> examples are available there too. >> >> There would be no operating system - you are on your own for everything, I >> mean everything. >> >> We would provide a CD with the assembler and simulator from Atmel and >> downloading cable for $29.95 and the AL24's (Assembly Language 24's) for >> $29.95 each >> >> We would only do this if there is enough demand. >> >> Any takers? >> >> Jack >> >>

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Great link, and exactly what I imagined there would be - however, without knowing a little more about the AVR (which is??), and its relationship to the BX24, the issue still remains: you need an ASM capable BX24 to make use of these, or similar compilers. > BTW there is a Small-C compiler that allows the interspersing of asembly code from http://www.jennaron.com/smallc.html > and an AVR compiler list at > http://www.omegav.ntnu.no/~karlto/avr/ccomp.html > For the Forth fans check out the MPE IRTC Forth Cross Compiler product > http://www.mpeltd.demon.co.uk/ > > Cheers... > Rich

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> The advantage of a BX24 without BasicX is i could buy a processor, crystal oscillator, reset circuit, and local power regulator neetly packaged with download software that i know works!!! > > This is a great step for the experimenter that wants to do more detailed programming but does > not want to spend the time in packaging up the basic processor. After thinking about this for a while, it does seem like a neat advantage for the experimenter. You mentioned later in your post that you thought all the pins could be brought out also. I don't know if I would want that part as much.... The footprint of the BX24 is super and very useful - a 40 pin footprint wouldn't give me size and convenience for some projects. Interesting idea, though.

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Hi Kyle ... The "brain" of the BX-01 and BX-24 is an AVR microcontroller made by Atmel. The BX-01 uses the AT90S8515 and the BX-24 uses the AT90S8535. "AVR" refers to Atmel's family of 8-bit RISC MCUs and they are programmed with Atmel's STK200 starter kit ... a parallel port programmer board with I/O switches and LEDs, plus assembler software ... all for about $50 from Pioneer. There is an Atmel mail list which is a very good source of info ... ... put "SUBSCRIBE atmel" as the subject/body of the email (without the quotes). If you're familiar with Microchip's PIC line of MCU's (used in Parallax's Stamps), the Atmel AVRs are similar, but much more powerful. http://www.atmel.com/atmel/products/prod23.htm http://www.atmel.com/atmel/products/prod199.htm http://www.ied.pios.com/catalog/ If you want more info, just ask. - Nick - Kyle Mallory wrote: > > Great link, and exactly what I imagined there would be - however, without > knowing a little more about the AVR (which is??), and its relationship to > the BX24, the issue still remains: you need an ASM capable BX24 to make use > of these, or similar compilers. > > > BTW there is a Small-C compiler that allows the interspersing of asembly > code from > http://www.jennaron.com/smallc.html > > and an AVR compiler list at > > http://www.omegav.ntnu.no/~karlto/avr/ccomp.html > > For the Forth fans check out the MPE IRTC Forth Cross Compiler product > > http://www.mpeltd.demon.co.uk/ > > > > Cheers... > > Rich > > --------------------------------------------------------------- > [Image] > Click Here

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Jack ... Jon's idea sounds good to me since I'd like the 25256 on board for data storage. I'd also like to see the 8535's Int0 brought out to a pin ... maybe pin-27 instead of PD4 ... two external interrupts would be very nice to have. - Nick - wrote: > > Seems like it would be easier on you guys to provide the BX24 without OS as > is -- let users make use of the EE. Since the AL24 volume is like to be > less than the BX24, the cost of a potentially unused EE would probably be > offset by the savings in manufacturing costs. Basically, aren't all BX24's > AL24's until you put the OS in? > > -- Jon Williams

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We have a physical routing issue. We just cant get there from here. If you look at the BX24 it is a marvel in hand routing that 2 layer board. You can always add a tiny wire :) Jack -----Original Message----- From: Nick Taylor <> To: <> Date: Friday, December 10, 1999 10:11 PM Subject: Re: [BasicX] Assembly Language Only Version of BX24 >From: Nick Taylor <> > >Jack ... Jon's idea sounds good to me since I'd like the 25256 >on board for data storage. I'd also like to see the 8535's Int0 >brought out to a pin ... maybe pin-27 instead of PD4 ... two >external interrupts would be very nice to have. > - Nick - > > wrote: >> >> Seems like it would be easier on you guys to provide the BX24 without OS as >> is -- let users make use of the EE. Since the AL24 volume is like to be >> less than the BX24, the cost of a potentially unused EE would probably be >> offset by the savings in manufacturing costs. Basically, aren't all BX24's >> AL24's until you put the OS in? >> >> -- Jon Williams

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On the subject of wish lists, I'd love to see a "BX28" with sclk, mosi, miso, and output capture on real pins that can fit a real socket. For new projects that would be much more convenient that the existing chip. mwf -----Original Message----- From: Jack Schoof [SMTP:] Sent: Friday, December 10, 1999 10:32 PM To: Subject: Re: [BasicX] Assembly Language Only Version of BX24 From: "Jack Schoof" <> We have a physical routing issue. We just cant get there from here. If you look at the BX24 it is a marvel in hand routing that 2 layer board. You can always add a tiny wire :) Jack -----Original Message----- From: Nick Taylor <> To: <> Date: Friday, December 10, 1999 10:11 PM Subject: Re: [BasicX] Assembly Language Only Version of BX24 >From: Nick Taylor <> > >Jack ... Jon's idea sounds good to me since I'd like the 25256 >on board for data storage. I'd also like to see the 8535's Int0 >brought out to a pin ... maybe pin-27 instead of PD4 ... two >external interrupts would be very nice to have. > - Nick - > > wrote: >> >> Seems like it would be easier on you guys to provide the BX24 without OS as >> is -- let users make use of the EE. Since the AL24 volume is like to be >> less than the BX24, the cost of a potentially unused EE would probably be >> offset by the savings in manufacturing costs. Basically, aren't all BX24's >> AL24's until you put the OS in? >> >> -- Jon Williams --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Buy your holiday gifts at cost this season at eCOST.com - <a href=" http://clickme.onelist.com/ad/ecost1 ">Click Here</a ------------------------------------------------------------------------

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I can make your suggestion work, but it's not as "clean" as a custome type (record) would be. "Jack Schoof" <jschoof@mail-ad To: <> dress.com> cc: Subject: Re: [BasicX] Assembly Language Only Version of BX24 12/10/99 05:47 PM Please respond to basicx From: "Jack Schoof" <> We could leave the 25256 in, it is a relatively expensive part, especially if you dont need it. By complex data types, do you mean user definable types, like records? Or something very complex like classes and objects? The nature of a BX24 with only 400 bytes of Ram doesnt lend itself to too many complex data types. If you want to make a record, you can use the fact that global data is created together in RAM. For example: dim my_a as integer dim my_b as integer dim my_c as single dim another_a as integer dim another_b as integer dim another_c as single ... sub main() ... call puteeprom(someaddress,my_a,8) 'places all 8 bytes from my_a to my_c into eeprom ... call geteeprom(someaddress,my_a,8) 'retrieves all 8 bytes from my_a to my_c from eeprom ... call blockmove(8,my_a,another_a) 'moves record "my" to the record called "another" end sub Jack -----Original Message----- From: <> To: <> Date: Friday, December 10, 1999 3:46 PM Subject: Re: [BasicX] Assembly Language Only Version of BX24 >From: >Seems like it would be easier on you guys to provide the BX24 without OS as >is -- let users make use of the EE. Since the AL24 volume is like to be >less than the BX24, the cost of a potentially unused EE would probably be >offset by the savings in manufacturing costs. Basically, aren't all BX24's >AL24's until you put the OS in? > >-- Jon Williams > >PS: Since the VB-like nature of BasicX is so important, when will we see >complex data types? --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Your opinion counts, and we'll reward you for it! Win Prizes! Join the ZOOMERANG Internet survey panel today. It's confidential, easy, and fun! <a href=" http://clickme.onelist.com/ad/MarketTools2A ">Click Here</a

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The compiler will improve over time. True records/user definable types are on our list of additions. When? I dont know. This is a suggestion as to what you can do now. Jack -----Original Message----- From: <> To: <> Date: Monday, December 13, 1999 8:37 AM Subject: Re: [BasicX] Assembly Language Only Version of BX24 >From: >I can make your suggestion work, but it's not as "clean" as a custome type >(record) would be. > > > "Jack Schoof" > <jschoof@mail-ad To: <> > dress.com> cc: > Subject: Re: [BasicX] Assembly Language Only Version of BX24 > 12/10/99 05:47 > PM > Please respond > to basicx > >From: "Jack Schoof" <> > >We could leave the 25256 in, it is a relatively expensive part, especially >if you dont need it. > >By complex data types, do you mean user definable types, like records? Or >something very complex like classes and objects? > >The nature of a BX24 with only 400 bytes of Ram doesnt lend itself to too >many complex data types. If you want to make a record, you can use the >fact >that global data is created together in RAM. For example: > >dim my_a as integer >dim my_b as integer >dim my_c as single > >dim another_a as integer >dim another_b as integer >dim another_c as single >... >sub main() >... >call puteeprom(someaddress,my_a,8) 'places all 8 bytes from my_a to my_c >into eeprom >... >call geteeprom(someaddress,my_a,8) 'retrieves all 8 bytes from my_a to my_c >from eeprom >... >call blockmove(8,my_a,another_a) 'moves record "my" to the record called >"another" > >end sub > >Jack > >-----Original Message----- >From: <> >To: <> >Date: Friday, December 10, 1999 3:46 PM >Subject: Re: [BasicX] Assembly Language Only Version of BX24 >>From: >> >> >>Seems like it would be easier on you guys to provide the BX24 without OS >as >>is -- let users make use of the EE. Since the AL24 volume is like to be >>less than the BX24, the cost of a potentially unused EE would probably be >>offset by the savings in manufacturing costs. Basically, aren't all >BX24's >>AL24's until you put the OS in? >> >>-- Jon Williams >> >>PS: Since the VB-like nature of BasicX is so important, when will we see >>complex data types? >> >

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