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No Frank I haven't tried the beta 4 compiler and am glad to hear the download problem has been cured, or at least greatly alleviated. I'm also happy that Netmedia is advertising the BasicX again. As I tried to make clear previously, I think highly of the BasicX, buy them, use them, and recommend them to my students. It's only because of the great utility of the BasicX, which is essential to the success of our projects, that I was concerned about its future. Let me also take this time to thank you and the other Netmedia staff for generously responding to the questions and concerns posted to this list. John Piccirillo >From: "John Piccirillo" <> > > > [...] > > I'd like a processor that doesn't constantly fail to > > accept a download. This is the single most annoying > > feature to my students. [...] > >Have you tried the beta 4 compiler? We made major changes to the downloader >communications protocol. In all the testing I've done so far, I have yet to >find a program that requires the downloader rescue option. > >Let me phrase that as a question -- has anybody using the beta 4 compiler >found a program that requires the rescue option? > >-- Frank Manning >-- NetMedia, Inc.

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No problem, we know you are a loyal BasicX'er. We have been waiting patiently for new mega products from Atmel to be introduced and shipped before we work too hard on using them. Here is a new product that I have toyed with in my head: BX28 An Atmel Mega8 which is a 28 pin DIP device, in a 0.300 wide package (half the width as the BX24/Stamp and 4 more pins). Using it in internal oscillator mode running at 4 Mhz for low power. So no external crystal, and no external eeprom. The basicx code would load in the internal 512 bytes of EEprom (small huh). This chip, by the way, has 1K of RAM, so it has more than double the usable RAM as a BX24. It also has 4, 10 bit ADC converters and a built-in power on reset circuit. This device would be used in places where you need some tiny brains due to the lack of code space. Most all the BasicX OS commands would still apply like pulsein, pulseout, shiftin, shiftout... Pricing would be around $15 in onezies. Maybe under $10 in hundies. Give it 2.7 volts to 5 volts and it just runs! Any thoughts? Jack --- In basicx@y..., John Piccirillo <jpicciri@r...> wrote: > No Frank I haven't tried the beta 4 compiler and am > glad to hear the download problem has been cured, > or at least greatly alleviated. I'm also happy that > Netmedia is advertising the BasicX again. > > As I tried to make clear previously, I think highly of > the BasicX, buy them, use them, and recommend them > to my students. It's only because of the great utility > of the BasicX, which is essential to the success of > our projects, that I was concerned about its future. > > Let me also take this time to thank you and the other > Netmedia staff for generously responding to the > questions and concerns posted to this list. > > John Piccirillo

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this is one chip that I could put to use. take one serialport on it and conect it to a rs485 converter. use this to off load all prossesing for a2d converting, sonor and distance mesuring. this would leave the bx-01 with rampack more able to crunch the big numbers. I vote to make it. --- jschoof <> wrote: > No problem, we know you are a loyal BasicX'er. We have been waiting > patiently for new mega products from Atmel to be introduced and > shipped before we work too hard on using them. Here is a new product > that I have toyed with in my head: > > BX28 > > An Atmel Mega8 which is a 28 pin DIP device, in a 0.300 wide package > (half the width as the BX24/Stamp and 4 more pins). Using it in > internal oscillator mode running at 4 Mhz for low power. So no > external crystal, and no external eeprom. The basicx code would load > in the internal 512 bytes of EEprom (small huh). This chip, by the > way, has 1K of RAM, so it has more than double the usable RAM as a > BX24. It also has 4, 10 bit ADC converters and a built-in power on > reset circuit. > > This device would be used in places where you need some tiny brains > due to the lack of code space. Most all the BasicX OS commands would > still apply like pulsein, pulseout, shiftin, shiftout... > > Pricing would be around $15 in onezies. Maybe under $10 in hundies. > Give it 2.7 volts to 5 volts and it just runs! > > Any thoughts? > > Jack > > --- In basicx@y..., John Piccirillo <jpicciri@r...> wrote: > > No Frank I haven't tried the beta 4 compiler and am > > glad to hear the download problem has been cured, > > or at least greatly alleviated. I'm also happy that > > Netmedia is advertising the BasicX again. > > > > As I tried to make clear previously, I think highly of > > the BasicX, buy them, use them, and recommend them > > to my students. It's only because of the great utility > > of the BasicX, which is essential to the success of > > our projects, that I was concerned about its future. > > > > Let me also take this time to thank you and the other > > Netmedia staff for generously responding to the > > questions and concerns posted to this list. > > > > John Piccirillo > > > __________________________________________________

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Jack, General idea is good (small, cheap, 28 pins, no external parts) but 512 bytes is small indeed. I just compiled the BX24 demo (print "hello world" plus blinking LEDs) example and it uses 509 bytes. Without external EEPROM, I don't see much use. Did you have some applications in mind? Stan --- In basicx@y..., "jschoof" <jschoof@g...> wrote: > > BX28 > > An Atmel Mega8 which is a 28 pin DIP device, in a 0.300 wide package > (half the width as the BX24/Stamp and 4 more pins). Using it in > internal oscillator mode running at 4 Mhz for low power. So no > external crystal, and no external eeprom. The basicx code would load > in the internal 512 bytes of EEprom (small huh). This chip, by the > way, has 1K of RAM, so it has more than double the usable RAM as a > BX24. It also has 4, 10 bit ADC converters and a built-in power on > reset circuit. > Any thoughts? > > Jack

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The print is what is taking up most of the memory space. If you gather data and makke decisions locally, then you dont need much space. For example, a complete thermostatic controller could be done in very little memory. It would read an adc, compare to a internal setpoint in persistant memory, and then output to a relay. More complicated things could also be done in 512 bytes. Maybe we should have a contest for the coolest program in 512 bytes. :) Jack --- In basicx@y..., "sgcossette" <sgcossette@y...> wrote: > Jack, > > General idea is good (small, cheap, 28 pins, no external parts) but > 512 bytes is small indeed. I just compiled the BX24 demo > (print "hello world" plus blinking LEDs) example and it uses 509 > bytes. Without external EEPROM, I don't see much use. > > Did you have some applications in mind? > > Stan > > --- In basicx@y..., "jschoof" <jschoof@g...> wrote: > > > > BX28 > > > > An Atmel Mega8 which is a 28 pin DIP device, in a 0.300 wide > package > > (half the width as the BX24/Stamp and 4 more pins). Using it in > > internal oscillator mode running at 4 Mhz for low power. So no > > external crystal, and no external eeprom. The basicx code would > load > > in the internal 512 bytes of EEprom (small huh). This chip, by the > > way, has 1K of RAM, so it has more than double the usable RAM as a > > BX24. It also has 4, 10 bit ADC converters and a built-in power on > > reset circuit. > > > Any thoughts? > > > > Jack

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Hi Netmedia, I would buy some of these BX28 chips if they existed. Probably with the bx28 my future purchases would be in the ratio of 3:1 (bx28:bx24), because they would be so useful for dedicated sensor circuits, etc., where 512 bytes is enough. Goodness sakes, for only three times the cost of a medium PIC, and almost like a 877 in cost. And look at all the additional abilities/ease of use. This would be a good deal in my opinion. Have a nice evening, Paul (half the width as the BX24/Stamp and 4 more pins). Using it in > > > internal oscillator mode running at 4 Mhz for low power. So no > > > external crystal, and no external eeprom. The basicx code would > > load > > > in the internal 512 bytes of EEprom (small huh). This chip, by > the > > > way, has 1K of RAM, so it has more than double the usable RAM as > a > > > BX24. It also has 4, 10 bit ADC converters and a built-in power > on > > > reset circuit. > > > > > Any thoughts? > > > > > > Jack

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I use the bx-01 exclusively. it only has 128 bytes of ram. It is also running both comports (232 & 485) with 3 tasks. Does this qualify? --- jschoof <> wrote: > The print is what is taking up most of the memory space. If you > gather data and makke decisions locally, then you dont need much > space. For example, a complete thermostatic controller could be done > in very little memory. It would read an adc, compare to a internal > setpoint in persistant memory, and then output to a relay. More > complicated things could also be done in 512 bytes. > > Maybe we should have a contest for the coolest program in 512 > bytes. :) > > Jack > > --- In basicx@y..., "sgcossette" <sgcossette@y...> wrote: > > Jack, > > > > General idea is good (small, cheap, 28 pins, no external parts) but > > 512 bytes is small indeed. I just compiled the BX24 demo > > (print "hello world" plus blinking LEDs) example and it uses 509 > > bytes. Without external EEPROM, I don't see much use. > > > > Did you have some applications in mind? > > > > Stan > > > > --- In basicx@y..., "jschoof" <jschoof@g...> wrote: > > > > > > BX28 > > > > > > An Atmel Mega8 which is a 28 pin DIP device, in a 0.300 wide > > package > > > (half the width as the BX24/Stamp and 4 more pins). Using it in > > > internal oscillator mode running at 4 Mhz for low power. So no > > > external crystal, and no external eeprom. The basicx code would > > load > > > in the internal 512 bytes of EEprom (small huh). This chip, by > the > > > way, has 1K of RAM, so it has more than double the usable RAM as > a > > > BX24. It also has 4, 10 bit ADC converters and a built-in power > on > > > reset circuit. > > > > > Any thoughts? > > > > > > Jack > __________________________________________________

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I would like to see beefier chips. More eeprom. More RAM. 64K for both. (BX64 ?) Same number of pins, Same package as the 24. Not lesser. Or smaller chips. .db. -----Original Message----- From: jschoof [mailto:] Sent: Wednesday, December 19, 2001 3:44 PM To: Subject: [BasicX] BasicX BX28 No problem, we know you are a loyal BasicX'er. We have been waiting patiently for new mega products from Atmel to be introduced and shipped before we work too hard on using them. Here is a new product that I have toyed with in my head: BX28 An Atmel Mega8 which is a 28 pin DIP device, in a 0.300 wide package (half the width as the BX24/Stamp and 4 more pins). Using it in internal oscillator mode running at 4 Mhz for low power. So no external crystal, and no external eeprom. The basicx code would load in the internal 512 bytes of EEprom (small huh). This chip, by the way, has 1K of RAM, so it has more than double the usable RAM as a BX24. It also has 4, 10 bit ADC converters and a built-in power on reset circuit. This device would be used in places where you need some tiny brains due to the lack of code space. Most all the BasicX OS commands would still apply like pulsein, pulseout, shiftin, shiftout... Pricing would be around $15 in onezies. Maybe under $10 in hundies. Give it 2.7 volts to 5 volts and it just runs! Any thoughts? Jack --- In basicx@y..., John Piccirillo <jpicciri@r...> wrote: > No Frank I haven't tried the beta 4 compiler and am > glad to hear the download problem has been cured, > or at least greatly alleviated. I'm also happy that > Netmedia is advertising the BasicX again. > > As I tried to make clear previously, I think highly of > the BasicX, buy them, use them, and recommend them > to my students. It's only because of the great utility > of the BasicX, which is essential to the success of > our projects, that I was concerned about its future. > > Let me also take this time to thank you and the other > Netmedia staff for generously responding to the > questions and concerns posted to this list. > > John Piccirillo Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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Dream on Dan, it's going to be a very long time before NetMedia even think about releasing such a chip! (Sad but true) The BX28 is a very cool idea, and as mentioned it can be used in places where small intelligence is required. But what about the rest of the world? A BX64 (not 64 pins, but 64k RAM plus bonus eeprom storage) would really rock, but as I've stated earlier that's a DREAM! I've noticed that Netmedia did not even take the time out to create expansion or addons boards for the BX24. A simple io bus could have been created using the existing spi bus or some bus technology that could be used to interface addon boards from NetMedia (or from third party manufactures) that extends the power of the bx24. These could simply be used in the same way we use the PC with addon cards. But that's another dream! Example of addon boards could be: 1) Network Camera 2) Compact Flash Reader/Writer 3) FAX/Modem 4) VGA or NTSC output addon (displays text and/or graphics) 5) MP3 Player/Recorder (extreme!) 6) Text to speech converter 7) and on, and on... All that's needed is a simple protocol, an IO bus, some advertisments, and third party manufactures will certainly be developing addon boards. But that's a dream, isn't it? P.S. Personally I love the BX24, but the Dam thing won't grow up! ---------- xWisdom --- In basicx@y..., "Dan Bielecki" <Dan.Bielecki@A...> wrote: > I would like to see beefier chips. > > More eeprom. More RAM. > 64K for both. (BX64 ?) > Same number of pins, Same package as the 24. > Not lesser. Or smaller chips. > > .db. > > -----Original Message----- > From: jschoof [mailto:jschoof@g...] > Sent: Wednesday, December 19, 2001 3:44 PM > To: basicx@y... > Subject: [BasicX] BasicX BX28 > No problem, we know you are a loyal BasicX'er. We have been waiting > patiently for new mega products from Atmel to be introduced and > shipped before we work too hard on using them. Here is a new product > that I have toyed with in my head: > > BX28 > > An Atmel Mega8 which is a 28 pin DIP device, in a 0.300 wide package > (half the width as the BX24/Stamp and 4 more pins). Using it in > internal oscillator mode running at 4 Mhz for low power. So no > external crystal, and no external eeprom. The basicx code would load > in the internal 512 bytes of EEprom (small huh). This chip, by the > way, has 1K of RAM, so it has more than double the usable RAM as a > BX24. It also has 4, 10 bit ADC converters and a built-in power on > reset circuit. > > This device would be used in places where you need some tiny brains > due to the lack of code space. Most all the BasicX OS commands would > still apply like pulsein, pulseout, shiftin, shiftout... > > Pricing would be around $15 in onezies. Maybe under $10 in hundies. > Give it 2.7 volts to 5 volts and it just runs! > > Any thoughts? > > Jack > > --- In basicx@y..., John Piccirillo <jpicciri@r...> wrote: > > No Frank I haven't tried the beta 4 compiler and am > > glad to hear the download problem has been cured, > > or at least greatly alleviated. I'm also happy that > > Netmedia is advertising the BasicX again. > > > > As I tried to make clear previously, I think highly of > > the BasicX, buy them, use them, and recommend them > > to my students. It's only because of the great utility > > of the BasicX, which is essential to the success of > > our projects, that I was concerned about its future. > > > > Let me also take this time to thank you and the other > > Netmedia staff for generously responding to the > > questions and concerns posted to this list. > > > > John Piccirillo > > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > ADVERTISEMENT > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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>No problem, we know you are a loyal BasicX'er. We have been waiting >patiently for new mega products from Atmel to be introduced and >shipped before we work too hard on using them. Here is a new product >that I have toyed with in my head: > >BX28 Basically, it's a BX24 in convenience, but for $15? Love it, but what's the catch? -- -- Tom Igoe

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The catch is that it can only execute from the internal 512 bytes of EEprom, so that it can be a one chip solution. Jack --- In basicx@y..., Tom Igoe <tom.igoe@n...> wrote: > >No problem, we know you are a loyal BasicX'er. We have been waiting > >patiently for new mega products from Atmel to be introduced and > >shipped before we work too hard on using them. Here is a new product > >that I have toyed with in my head: > > > >BX28 > > Basically, it's a BX24 in convenience, but for $15? Love it, but > what's the catch? > -- > -- > Tom Igoe

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>The catch is that it can only execute from the internal 512 bytes of >EEprom, so that it can be a one chip solution. So that 512 would include both code storage and variable storage? Haven't got the dat sheets in front of me, how does that compare to say, a pic 16f876 or 77, anyone know? Also, how much of the 512 would get eaten up by the overhead of the BX OS? the biggest drawback I can think of is serial -- the overhead for queues for in and out on the BX is pretty big compared to the BS2 serial implementation. I've been using picBasic pro on the pic as well lately, which is basically the BS2 basic beefed up, and I gotta say, I am pretty happy with the serial implementation, and it takes less overhead than the BX24. -- -- Tom Igoe

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In the BX28 there would actually be more than double the ram for data storage as a BX24, so your queues could be very large indeed. The BasicX operating system would take up the 8K of flash in the Mega8 chip. This then leaves the 512 bytes of EEprom within the Mega8 chip for the BasicX program you would write. Again this is just an idea to make a very small BasicX chip with no external parts. If we had an external EEprom, then we could expand the code space back to the 32K that the BX24 has. Except now, we would have double the ram to play with. Jack --- In basicx@y..., Tom Igoe <tom.igoe@n...> wrote: > >The catch is that it can only execute from the internal 512 bytes of > >EEprom, so that it can be a one chip solution. > So that 512 would include both code storage and variable storage? > Haven't got the dat sheets in front of me, how does that compare to > say, a pic 16f876 or 77, anyone know? > > Also, how much of the 512 would get eaten up by the overhead of the BX OS? > > the biggest drawback I can think of is serial -- the overhead for > queues for in and out on the BX is pretty big compared to the BS2 > serial implementation. I've been using picBasic pro on the pic as > well lately, which is basically the BS2 basic beefed up, and I gotta > say, I am pretty happy with the serial implementation, and it takes > less overhead than the BX24. > -- > -- > Tom Igoe

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>In the BX28 there would actually be more than double the ram for data >storage as a BX24, so your queues could be very large indeed. The >BasicX operating system would take up the 8K of flash in the Mega8 >chip. This then leaves the 512 bytes of EEprom within the Mega8 chip >for the BasicX program you would write. > >Again this is just an idea to make a very small BasicX chip with no >external parts. If we had an external EEprom, then we could expand >the code space back to the 32K that the BX24 has. Except now, we >would have double the ram to play with. when you put it that way, it sounds perfrctly feasible. The only time I've stretched the memory on the BX24 was when doing queues, so if you've got double the RAM, no problem. Stick with the one-chip solution. -- -- Tom Igoe

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