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This list is for discussion of the design and implementation of field-programmable gate array based processors and integrated systems. It is also for discussion and community support of the XSOC Project (see http://www.fpgacpu.org/xsoc).
multiCPUs + wide bus on FPGA - Gianluca - Jul 4 19:18:00 2003
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Dear all I am interested in FPGA prototyping. So far I practiced some FPGA design using Altera Quartus II 2.2 but I still have to touch with hand a real FPGA device. My project is implementing a multi CPUs architecture composed by CPUs with integer ALUs and few registers connected by a 16bit (minimum) memory buses to their own ram through a L1 common cache. A dedicated data bus will link each CPU to the others. At this stage I want keep the design to a minimum of simplicity in order to fit it into a FPGA and also early complexity may discourage me. This project is meant to be a PCI mounted accelerator for a specific set of instructions. I would like to know how much of such a project may fit on a FPGA, if yes what will be the best choice to start ? if not what could I use instead of a FPGA ? How wide can a memory bus be ? Thank you for your help. Gian [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] |
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Re: multiCPUs + wide bus on FPGA - Anand Gopal Shirahatti - Jul 14 23:12:00 2003
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Hi, If u r really intrested in getting the work done with Multi CPU Architecture and interested in the Altera FPGA's I would suggest U the following: 1. Donot try to build U r own CPU at the first phase. U will face the big problem of verification. U may also loose track of u r main goal of building an PCI mounted accelerator. 2. I would suuggest to go for the NIOS RISC processor from the Altera . It's provided by altera and it's free. Even the RTL Source is provided. 3. The real advantage will be there SOPC Builder software that will reduce the time for developing the Multi CPU architecture quickly. 4. Software tools for the NIOS will help u get the software done very qucikly. 5. Also there is provision to add the custom instruction to the processor. Being implemented from Altera it is optimized for there FPGA's. It consumes around 1500 LE's for the smallest system configuration. I guess with the CYCLONE FPGA family U may as well get solution done with the minimum cost ! 6. With all these assistance U can focus on PCI mounted accelerator rather than other details. Thus Very quickly build an working solution. 7. But if u r Interested in learining U can always have Phase 2 of u r project where U can attempt to replace the NIOS with u r own processor. All the Best. Regards, Anand. On Sat, 05 Jul 2003 Gianluca wrote : >Dear all > >I am interested in FPGA prototyping. So far I practiced some FPGA >design using Altera Quartus II 2.2 but I still have to touch with >hand a real FPGA device. > >My project is implementing a multi CPUs architecture composed by >CPUs with integer ALUs and few registers connected by a 16bit >(minimum) memory buses to their own ram through a L1 common >cache. A dedicated data bus will link each CPU to the others. > >At this stage I want keep the design to a minimum of simplicity >in order to fit it into a FPGA and also early complexity may >discourage me. > >This project is meant to be a PCI mounted accelerator for a >specific set of instructions. > >I would like to know how much of such a project may fit on a >FPGA, if yes what will be the best choice to start ? if not what >could I use instead of a FPGA ? >How wide can a memory bus be ? > >Thank you for your help. >Gian > >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > >To post a message, send it to: >To unsubscribe, send a blank message to: ___________________________________________________ Click below to experience Sooraj R Barjatya's latest offering 'Main Prem Ki Diwani Hoon' starring Hrithik, Abhishek & Kareena http://www.mpkdh.com |
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Re: multiCPUs + wide bus on FPGA - Martin Schoeberl - Jul 15 12:02:00 2003
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> 2. I would suuggest to go for the NIOS RISC processor from the > Altera . It's provided by altera and it's free. Even the RTL > Source is provided. > Is NIOS really free? I think you need a full version of Quartus. It's not included with the Web Edition. Martin -------------------------------------------------------- JOP - a Java Processor core for FPGAs now on Cyclone: http://www.jopdesign.com/cyclone/ |
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Re: Re: multiCPUs + wide bus on FPGA - Anand Gopal Shirahatti - Jul 15 23:09:00 2003
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I am not sure about the Web Edition. But I guess U should try contacting Altera, they may be willing to allow U evaluvate it through there "Open Core" programme for free. Anand. On Tue, 15 Jul 2003 Martin Schoeberl wrote : > > 2. I would suuggest to go for the NIOS RISC processor from >the > > Altera . It's provided by altera and it's free. Even the RTL > > Source is provided. > > >Is NIOS really free? I think you need a full version of Quartus. >It's not >included with the Web Edition. > >Martin >-------------------------------------------------------- >JOP - a Java Processor core for FPGAs now >on Cyclone: http://www.jopdesign.com/cyclone/ > >To post a message, send it to: >To unsubscribe, send a blank message to: ___________________________________________________ Click below to experience Sooraj R Barjatya's latest offering 'Main Prem Ki Diwani Hoon' starring Hrithik, Abhishek & Kareena http://www.mpkdh.com |
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Re: multiCPUs + wide bus on FPGA - Martin.J Thompson - Jul 16 2:14:00 2003
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<I've lost the attributions for this - sorry!> >> 2. I would suuggest to go for the NIOS RISC processor from the >> Altera . It's provided by altera and it's free. Even the RTL >> Source is provided. >> >Is NIOS really free? I think you need a full version of Quartus. It's not >included with the Web Edition. Quite right, you have to buy it (ours came with a free development board - they are quite good value). It *is* royalty free though. And the HDL source is only a block-level wiring diagram effectively - the CPU itself is blackboxed. Cheers, Martin -- Martin Thompson CEng MIEE TRW Conekt Stratford Road, Solihull, B90 4AX. UK Tel: +44 (0)121-627-3569 - |
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Re: multiCPUs + wide bus on FPGA - Martin Schoeberl - Jul 16 10:56:00 2003
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----- Original Message ----- From: "Martin.J Thompson" <> To: <> Sent: Wednesday, July 16, 2003 9:14 AM Subject: Re: [fpga-cpu] multiCPUs + wide bus on FPGA > <I've lost the attributions for this - sorry!> > > >> 2. I would suuggest to go for the NIOS RISC processor from the > >> Altera . It's provided by altera and it's free. Even the RTL > >> Source is provided. > >> > >Is NIOS really free? I think you need a full version of Quartus. It's not > >included with the Web Edition. > > > > Quite right, you have to buy it (ours came with a free development board - they are quite good value). It *is* royalty free though. And the HDL source is only a block-level wiring diagram effectively - the CPU itself is blackboxed. > > Cheers, > Martin Hi Martin, I was also thinking about to buy an Alteras Nios development board to get Quartus and Nios for a good price ($ 499 in june). BUT after asking a few questions my distri told me that the SW licence is only for one year. After that you have to pay about $ 2000,- per year. Then it's getting a little bit expensive to play around with Nios. Without the $ 2k licence Quartus gets useless and your back on Quartus Web Edition without Nios. Martin -------------------------------------------------------- JOP - a Java Processor core for FPGAs now on Cyclone: http://www.jopdesign.com/cyclone/ |
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Re: multiCPUs + wide bus on FPGA - jerry - Jul 16 16:37:00 2003
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> I was also thinking about to buy an Alteras Nios development board to > get Quartus and Nios for a good price ($ 499 in june). BUT after > asking a few questions my distri told me that the SW licence is only > for one year. After that you have to pay about $ 2000,- per year. Nonsense :-) After 1 year of subscription (included in your $499) you have fully working software. The only thing you're missing is software upgrade and (I'm not sure here) web-based support. > Then it's getting a little bit expensive to play around with Nios. > Without the $ 2k licence Quartus gets useless and your back on > Quartus Web Edition without Nios. I'm playing with Nios for almost 2 years - I have to renew my subscription, but NOWHERE in the license is stated that I'm using it an illegal way. I have bought Nios-APEX dev. kit. Now I'm considering buying Nios-Cyclone kit (mostly to get new version of Quartus) jerry |
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Re: multiCPUs + wide bus on FPGA - Martin.J Thompson - Jul 17 2:23:00 2003
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>----- Original Message ----- >From: "Martin.J Thompson" <> >To: <> >Sent: Wednesday, July 16, 2003 9:14 AM >Subject: Re: [fpga-cpu] multiCPUs + wide bus on FPGA >> <I've lost the attributions for this - sorry!> >> >> >> 2. I would suuggest to go for the NIOS RISC processor from the >> >> Altera . It's provided by altera and it's free. Even the RTL >> >> Source is provided. >> >> >> >Is NIOS really free? I think you need a full version of Quartus. It's not >> >included with the Web Edition. >> > >> >> Quite right, you have to buy it (ours came with a free development board - >they are quite good value). It *is* royalty free though. And the HDL >source is only a block-level wiring diagram effectively - the CPU itself is >blackboxed. >> >> Cheers, >> Martin >> > >Hi Martin, > >I was also thinking about to buy an Alteras Nios development board to get >Quartus and Nios for a good price ($ 499 in june). BUT after asking a few >questions my distri told me that the SW licence is only for one year. After >that you have to pay about $ 2000,- per year. Then it's getting a little bit >expensive to play around with Nios. Without the $ 2k licence Quartus gets >useless and your back on Quartus Web Edition without Nios. Indeed - I had forgotten that niggle - I played with it during the first year, but haven't needed it since... I was lead to believe that my original license would still work, but that I wouldn't get any of the funky upgrades to the processor and tools. If that's not the case then I'll be aggrieved (when I finally come to do somehting useful with NIOS). Anyone know how this compares to the Microblaze licensing? Cheers, Martin -- Martin Thompson CEng MIEE TRW Conekt Stratford Road, Solihull, B90 4AX. UK Tel: +44 (0)121-627-3569 - |
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AW: multiCPUs + wide bus on FPGA - Thomas Sedlaczek - Jul 17 3:22:00 2003
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> > I was also thinking about to buy an Alteras Nios development board to > > get Quartus and Nios for a good price ($ 499 in june). BUT after > > asking a few questions my distri told me that the SW licence is only > > for one year. After that you have to pay about $ 2000,- per year. > > Nonsense :-) > After 1 year of subscription (included in your $499) you have > fully working software. The only thing you're missing is software upgrade > and (I'm not sure here) web-based support. You are right! Quartus will continue to run, but the Leonardo Spectrum Synthesis tool (VHDL or Verilog) is time limited and will expire on the date written in your license file. The nice thing is that no body have told me this when I bought my NIOS kit. But my distributor has offered me the follow upgrades: 1. Leonardo Spectrum Level 1 for all Altera devices, node locked: GBP700 - includes the first years maintenance. Essentially this is an outright (perpetual license) purchase of the Altera OEM tool you have been using. Maintenance includes our technical support, which is there to help you get the best possible synthesis results from the tool. 2. Upgrade to Precision Synthesis for all Altera devices inclusive of timing analyzer and schematic viewer, node locked: GBP 4,160 + GBP 750 first years maintenance 3. For the period of April 1, 2003 through June 30, 2003 Mentor Graphics will offer free Leonardo Spectrum-Altera license extensions to existing Leonardo Spectrum-Altera software licensees. These licenses will expire on October 15, 2003, and the request for such a license must be received by 30th June 2003. I did not go for it, because it is out of my student budget. Now I have started to design my own processor and will implement it on Actel or Xilinx using there free web tools. The NIOS kit was good value, but I accept to be informed about any limitations of a product before I buy it. That is what I accept as customer and it makes now difference to me, if I buy it private to a student price (500 Euro) or as company for the full price. Best regards from south Wales Thomas |
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Re: AW: multiCPUs + wide bus on FPGA - Martin.J Thompson - Jul 18 2:21:00 2003
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> >> > I was also thinking about to buy an Alteras Nios development board >to >> > get Quartus and Nios for a good price ($ 499 in june). BUT after >> > asking a few questions my distri told me that the SW licence is only >> > for one year. After that you have to pay about $ 2000,- per year. >> >> Nonsense :-) >> After 1 year of subscription (included in your $499) you have >> fully working software. The only thing you're missing is software >upgrade >> and (I'm not sure here) web-based support. > >You are right! Quartus will continue to run, but the Leonardo Spectrum >Synthesis tool (VHDL or Verilog) is time limited and will expire on the >date written in your license file. The nice thing is that no body have >told me this when I bought my NIOS kit. But my distributor has offered >me the follow upgrades: Presumably Altera will make NIOS work with their built-in synthesis in the future, although that will still mean one more upgrade to Quartus/NIOS for you! Cheers, Martin |
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Re: multiCPUs + wide bus on FPGA - Martin Schoeberl - Jul 18 2:22:00 2003
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----- Original Message ----- From: "Thomas Sedlaczek" <> To: <> Sent: Thursday, July 17, 2003 10:22 AM Subject: AW: [fpga-cpu] multiCPUs + wide bus on FPGA > > > > I was also thinking about to buy an Alteras Nios development board > to > > > get Quartus and Nios for a good price ($ 499 in june). BUT after > > > asking a few questions my distri told me that the SW licence is only > > > for one year. After that you have to pay about $ 2000,- per year. > > > > Nonsense :-) > > After 1 year of subscription (included in your $499) you have > > fully working software. The only thing you're missing is software > upgrade > > and (I'm not sure here) web-based support. > > You are right! Quartus will continue to run, but the Leonardo Spectrum > Synthesis tool (VHDL or Verilog) is time limited and will expire on the > date written in your license file. The nice thing is that no body have > told me this when I bought my NIOS kit. But my distributor has offered > me the follow upgrades: > > 1. Leonardo Spectrum Level 1 for all Altera devices, node locked: > GBP700 - includes the first years maintenance. > > Essentially this is an outright (perpetual license) purchase of the > Altera OEM tool you have been using. Maintenance includes our technical > support, which is there to help you get the best possible synthesis > results from the tool. > 2. Upgrade to Precision Synthesis for all Altera devices inclusive of > timing analyzer and schematic viewer, node locked: GBP 4,160 + GBP 750 > first years maintenance > 3. For the period of April 1, 2003 through June 30, 2003 Mentor Graphics > will offer free Leonardo Spectrum-Altera license extensions to existing > Leonardo Spectrum-Altera software licensees. These licenses will expire > on October 15, 2003, and the request for such a license must be received > by 30th June 2003. > > I did not go for it, because it is out of my student budget. Now I have > started to design my own processor and will implement it on Actel or > Xilinx using there free web tools. Thomas, I was also a little bit worried about the stop of Altera OEM version of Leonardo. I used it in all my projects. Since weeks i was trying to compile all projects with Quartus alone. A lot of troubles, some service requests to Altera and I found some bugs in Quartus. But finally everything compiles now correct and even with better fitting results (less LEs and higher fmax :) So give Quartus (Web Edition) a try, but use version 3.0 (2.x had too many bugs). Greetings from vienna Martin -------------------------------------------------------- JOP - a Java Processor core for FPGAs now on Cyclone: http://www.jopdesign.com/cyclone/ |
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Re: multiCPUs + wide bus on FPGA - jerry - Jul 18 3:31:00 2003
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> You are right! Quartus will continue to run, but the Leonardo Spectrum > Synthesis tool (VHDL or Verilog) is time limited and will expire on > the I was playing with native Quartus synthesis and it seems that Nios is getting synthesized very well - results are compatible with Leonardo. Of course, I was pissed off when I read about not supporting Leo any more, but life's going... :-) > 1. Leonardo Spectrum Level 1 for all Altera devices, node locked: > GBP700 - includes the first years maintenance. Try Quartus native synthesis - there are not so bad results. jerry Jesli pedzisz bimber, pamietaj: - z burakow nalezy w pierwszej kolejnosci sciagnac dresy (c) by Daniel |
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