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Has everybody seen the ARM announcement regarding Keil?

--
Paul Curtis, Rowley Associates Ltd http://www.rowley.co.uk
CrossWorks for MSP430, ARM, AVR and now MAXQ processors





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No
What is about ?
Bogdan
----- Original Message -----
From: "Paul Curtis" <plc@plc@...>
To: <lpc2000@lpc2...>
Sent: Friday, October 28, 2005 1:59 PM
Subject: [lpc2000] Keil > Has everybody seen the ARM announcement regarding Keil?
>
> --
> Paul Curtis, Rowley Associates Ltd http://www.rowley.co.uk
> CrossWorks for MSP430, ARM, AVR and now MAXQ processors >
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links





(You need to be a member of lpc2000 -- send a blank email to lpc2000-subscribe@yahoogroups.com )

----- Original Message -----
From: "Paul Curtis" <plc@plc@...>
To: <lpc2000@lpc2...>
Sent: Friday, October 28, 2005 11:59 AM
Subject: [lpc2000] Keil > Has everybody seen the ARM announcement regarding Keil?

No, but I just found it on the ARM site. ARM has bought Keil.

Leon
---
[This E-mail has been scanned for viruses but it is your responsibility
to maintain up to date anti virus software on the device that you are
currently using to read this email. ]



(You need to be a member of lpc2000 -- send a blank email to lpc2000-subscribe@yahoogroups.com )

Hi Leon,

> > Has everybody seen the ARM announcement regarding Keil?
>
> No, but I just found it on the ARM site. ARM has bought Keil.

The price, though, the price...

--
Paul Curtis, Rowley Associates Ltd http://www.rowley.co.uk
CrossWorks for MSP430, ARM, AVR and now MAXQ processors





(You need to be a member of lpc2000 -- send a blank email to lpc2000-subscribe@yahoogroups.com )

Wow - that's interesting news. I was going to ask what tools people use, but
I see there's an ongoing poll :-)
As a hobbyist, I'm using the GNU tools because they're easy to use and free,
but don't have good debugging capabilities (i've settled for using print
statements instead of trying to get JTAG debugging to work).

Seeing as 29% of voters use Keil tools, over 22% using Rowley and 11% IAR,
it looks like ARM made a good move.

Jim Parziale
Malden, MA

----------------------------------------------------------
On 10/28/05, Leon Heller <leon.heller@leon...> wrote:
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Paul Curtis" <plc@plc@...>
> To: <lpc2000@lpc2...>
> Sent: Friday, October 28, 2005 11:59 AM
> Subject: [lpc2000] Keil > > Has everybody seen the ARM announcement regarding Keil?
>
> No, but I just found it on the ARM site. ARM has bought Keil.
>
> Leon
> ---
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



(You need to be a member of lpc2000 -- send a blank email to lpc2000-subscribe@yahoogroups.com )

Hi All,

Check this link about Keil Acquistion by ARM.

http://www.arm.com/news/10860.html

Regards,
Rajashekhar
----- Original Message -----
From: Paul Curtis
To: lpc2000@lpc2...
Sent: Friday, October 28, 2005 5:08 PM
Subject: RE: [lpc2000] Keil Hi Leon,

> > Has everybody seen the ARM announcement regarding Keil?
>
> No, but I just found it on the ARM site. ARM has bought Keil.

The price, though, the price...

--
Paul Curtis, Rowley Associates Ltd http://www.rowley.co.uk
CrossWorks for MSP430, ARM, AVR and now MAXQ processors SPONSORED LINKS Microprocessor Microcontrollers 8051 microprocessor ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS

a.. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



(You need to be a member of lpc2000 -- send a blank email to lpc2000-subscribe@yahoogroups.com )

Jim Parziale wrote:

>Wow - that's interesting news. I was going to ask what tools people use, but
>I see there's an ongoing poll :-)
>As a hobbyist, I'm using the GNU tools because they're easy to use and free,
>but don't have good debugging capabilities (i've settled for using print
>statements instead of trying to get JTAG debugging to work).
>
>Seeing as 29% of voters use Keil tools, over 22% using Rowley and 11% IAR,
>it looks like ARM made a good move. Seems to me like Keil sold the whole game for the price of 1100 PK-ARM
seats (as priced on www.lpctools.com).

Michael

>Jim Parziale
>Malden, MA
>
>----------------------------------------------------------
>On 10/28/05, Leon Heller <leon.heller@leon...> wrote: >> ----- Original Message -----
>>From: "Paul Curtis" <plc@plc@...>
>>To: <lpc2000@lpc2...>
>>Sent: Friday, October 28, 2005 11:59 AM
>>Subject: [lpc2000] Keil
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>>Has everybody seen the ARM announcement regarding Keil?
>>>
>>>
>>No, but I just found it on the ARM site. ARM has bought Keil.
>>
>>Leon
>>---
>>
>>
> >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >Yahoo! Groups Links





(You need to be a member of lpc2000 -- send a blank email to lpc2000-subscribe@yahoogroups.com )

Hi,

> Seeing as 29% of voters use Keil tools, over 22% using Rowley
> and 11% IAR, it looks like ARM made a good move.

Sample size is too small to be meaningful at present. Also, you're
restricting yourself to the LPC2k group and many ARM users are not in
that category.

--
Paul Curtis, Rowley Associates Ltd http://www.rowley.co.uk
CrossWorks for MSP430, ARM, AVR and now MAXQ processors





(You need to be a member of lpc2000 -- send a blank email to lpc2000-subscribe@yahoogroups.com )

I didn't think they list the sales price? Wow, may be we will do a 8051
compiler after all. This may create a vacuum on the 8051/C16x toolchain
space...

And we just added this tagline to our website a few months ago:

One of the "few but proud" independent compiler companies in the USA!

Looks like it's more true than ever. Soon we might will need to change it
to USA and the World! :-) (Or is that a :-( )

See Paul, if only you have done a Thumb-2 compiler, they might have bought
you! :-)

At 05:42 AM 10/28/2005, Michael Johnson wrote:
>...Seems to me like Keil sold the whole game for the price of 1100 PK-ARM
>seats (as priced on www.lpctools.com).
>
>Michael >

// richard (This email is for mailing lists. To reach me directly, please
use richard at imagecraft.com)



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Richard,

> I didn't think they list the sales price?

$4.6M. That's not a high valuation, unless there is something else.
We'll see when the accounts come out.

> Wow, may be we will do a 8051
> compiler after all. This may create a vacuum on the 8051/C16x
> toolchain space...

Why? ARM said they'll keep 8051 and C166 compilers on the go.

> See Paul, if only you have done a Thumb-2 compiler, they
> might have bought you! :-)

I don't believe so. I don't think they wanted *another* compiler. Put
it this way, ARM have had a gig with Metrowerks and did the CodeWarrior
thing to get an IDE, but now Metrowerks seems to be pulling out of the
ARM game. Then ARM bought in the RealView stuff (forget who they
purchased that from) to replace the old ARM debugger. They know their
IDE is a bit crufty and needs a refresh, so perhaps that's why they
purchased Keil? From a distance, it just seems ARM's tool strategy is
all bits and pieces.

- Paul.





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At 02:59 PM 10/28/2005, Paul Curtis wrote:

>Richard,
>
> > I didn't think they list the sales price?
>
>$4.6M. That's not a high valuation, unless there is something else.
>We'll see when the accounts come out.

Hmmm... I thought it says combined gross asset of $4.6M, not that they pay
$4.6M. Paying $4.6M seems awfully low. I think the conventional wisdom is
3-5x of annual sales...

> > Wow, may be we will do a 8051
> > compiler after all. This may create a vacuum on the 8051/C16x
> > toolchain space...
>
>Why? ARM said they'll keep 8051 and C166 compilers on the go.

Sure..... and you believe that? Lets says it lasts for 2-3 years, then what? > > See Paul, if only you have done a Thumb-2 compiler, they
> > might have bought you! :-)
>
>I don't believe so. I don't think they wanted *another* compiler. Put
>it this way, ARM have had a gig with Metrowerks and did the CodeWarrior
>thing to get an IDE, but now Metrowerks seems to be pulling out of the
>ARM game. Then ARM bought in the RealView stuff (forget who they
>purchased that from) to replace the old ARM debugger. They know their
>IDE is a bit crufty and needs a refresh, so perhaps that's why they
>purchased Keil? From a distance, it just seems ARM's tool strategy is
>all bits and pieces.

No sh*t :-)

// richard (This email is for mailing lists. To reach me directly, please
use richard at imagecraft.com)



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Richard,

> > > I didn't think they list the sales price?
> >
> >$4.6M. That's not a high valuation, unless there is something else.
> >We'll see when the accounts come out.
>
> Hmmm... I thought it says combined gross asset of $4.6M, not
> that they pay
> $4.6M. Paying $4.6M seems awfully low. I think the
> conventional wisdom is
> 3-5x of annual sales...

ARM's accounts will list exactly the price they paid, so we just need to
wait.

However, a back-of-the-envelope calculation for a 23-person company,
conservatively, says you need 23 x $60K = $1.4M per year to cover staff
costs. So, again, 3 x $1.4 = $4.2M. All this is pure speculation, of
course. :-)

-- Paul.





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--- In lpc2000@lpc2..., "Leon Heller" <leon.heller@b...> wrote:

> > Has everybody seen the ARM announcement regarding Keil?
>
> No, but I just found it on the ARM site. ARM has bought Keil.

Bummer, I guess the price of the Keil software will go up. ARM seems
to overcharge for software by a factor of 5 (or more). They've got a
lot of pork in their operation: they have too many employees (it seems
like they have 2 or 3 middle managers for every engineer) and
everything is done by committee. It takes them years to get anything done.

Eric





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--- In lpc2000@lpc2..., "Paul Curtis" <plc@r...> wrote:

> > Seeing as 29% of voters use Keil tools, over 22% using Rowley
> > and 11% IAR, it looks like ARM made a good move.
>
> Sample size is too small to be meaningful at present. Also, you're
> restricting yourself to the LPC2k group and many ARM users are not in
> that category.

I agree. A lot of Philips users use Keil, but they're not so popular
among Atmel, Freescale, or TI users. In fact, I think Philips is
probably the only ARM vendor that shows Keil tools in the #1 spot.

But I don't mean to imply Keil is bad. When they started making ARM
tools I thought they were a joke, but they really worked hard and
earned a good reputation.

I seriously hope the ARM company will give them some autonomy and not
try to manage them to death. With all honesty I'm quite sure at least
some of the Keil engineers are sending out resumes now. I know I would be!

Eric





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>> I agree. A lot of Philips users use Keil, but they're not so popular
among Atmel, Freescale, or TI users. In fact, I think Philips is
probably the only ARM vendor that shows Keil tools in the #1 spot. <<

It's Infineon I associate Keil with. They make a very good IDE for the
XC166 - as well as Tricore and (obviously) 8051 tools which I haven't
played with.

Cheers,

Rob





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