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It's nice to know somebody from the Big-M watches this board and is willing to throw in a comment from time to time! THANK YOU! Most of the time it seems like there are just a few of us old time 11-crunchers hanging around to field silly questions from students trying to get their project done for them ;-) I guess, eventually, even us die-hard HC11 folks will have to migrate to a new processor It's too bad - the HC11 is sure a Jack Of All Trades and I love my EVM - don't think I can afford another one. Of course some of us are REAL die-hards and have laid in a huge stock of HC11s to cover future needs ;-) Hummm, maybe when the 11 is gone I will be able to sell my stock and make enough profit for a new EVM for a "modern" processor? Hugging my HC11s..... __________________________________

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At 03:25 PM 20/01/04 -0800, you wrote: >Most of the time it seems like there are just a few of >us old time 11-crunchers hanging Speak for yourself! I'm young...at heart :-) >I guess, eventually, even us die-hard HC11 folks will >have to migrate to a new processor It's too bad - the >HC11 is sure a Jack Of All Trades and I love my EVM - >don't think I can afford another one. I have migrated to Atmel micros for all new designs, well after a short painfull stint with the PIC. My EVM for the Atmel was AU$200.00 (~US$100.00) It does a limited number of chips though. It's a big change from the Motorola architecture but once you get your mind around it, it is excellent. Still use (and love) the 711 to support/manufacture the older products. I'm hanging around the HC11 list "Just in case" Motorola does see the error of their ways and introduces an updated HC11, which all of us "old timer" would love to have. I did try to get some interest in the HC08 but to no avail...even less for the HC12. But I'm in good company with the Atmel list with a few "old timers" having migrated there too. Regards John Samperi ****************************************************** Ampertronics Pty. Ltd. 11 Brokenwood Place Baulkham Hills, NSW 2153 AUSTRALIA Tel. (02) 9674-6495 Fax (02) 9674-8745 Email: Website http://ampertronics.com.au * Electronic Design * Technical Services * Contract Assembly ******************************************************

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Forum, I don't like that term 'old timers', prefer the 'grumpy old timers' tag. I have used the HC11F1 extensively on different products and would be sad to see its demise as it is a real workhorse, apart from the time spent learning how the dam thing works. Is its demise imminent? Here in 'lies' the problem. You invest a lot of time and money in developing a skill set around one processor only to find that when you achieve a reasonable level of proficiency with it they discontinue producing it, even though their product information tells you different. What in the opinion of the other 'old timers' would be a good sustainable replacement for the 11? PFC. ----- Original Message ----- From: <> To: <> Sent: Wednesday, January 21, 2004 7:06 AM Subject: Re: [m68HC11] Horray Motorola!!! > At 03:25 PM 20/01/04 -0800, you wrote: > >Most of the time it seems like there are just a few of > >us old time 11-crunchers hanging > > Speak for yourself! I'm young...at heart :-) > > >I guess, eventually, even us die-hard HC11 folks will > >have to migrate to a new processor It's too bad - the > >HC11 is sure a Jack Of All Trades and I love my EVM - > >don't think I can afford another one. > > I have migrated to Atmel micros for all new designs, well > after a short painfull stint with the PIC. My EVM for > the Atmel was AU$200.00 (~US$100.00) It does a limited > number of chips though. It's a big change from the Motorola > architecture but once you get your mind around it, it is excellent. > > Still use (and love) the 711 to support/manufacture the older > products. > I'm hanging around the HC11 list "Just in case" Motorola does > see the error of their ways and introduces an updated HC11, > which all of us "old timer" would love to have. I did try to get > some interest in the HC08 but to no avail...even less for the > HC12. > But I'm in good company with the Atmel list with a few > "old timers" having migrated there too. > Regards > > John Samperi > > ****************************************************** > Ampertronics Pty. Ltd. > 11 Brokenwood Place Baulkham Hills, NSW 2153 AUSTRALIA > Tel. (02) 9674-6495 Fax (02) 9674-8745 > Email: > Website http://ampertronics.com.au > * Electronic Design * Technical Services * Contract Assembly > ******************************************************

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At 08:26 AM 21/01/04 -0000, you wrote: > >What in the opinion of the other 'old timers' would be a good sustainable >replacement for the 11? Well if you want to stick to Motorola then the HC12 is what is on offer as an upgrade to the HC11 or if you want to downgrade then you can go to the HC908. If you don't really care about sticking to Motorola then the world is your oyster as they say (personally I detest seafood :-)) There are many excellent processors with the capability of the HC11 nowdays and pretty much all of them offer flash memory at a cheaper price most of the time. I have used the AVR 90S8535 (now Mega8535) from Atmel as a replacement for the HC11 (not as many nice timers though) Once you get around the RISC architecture that many companies offer you can go from an 8 pin device to a 100+pin device that uses exactly the same core. You will find that what you have invested in time with the HC11 as far as learning the peripherals will come in handy anyway. I would love to have an HC11 core say in an 8, 20, 28, 44 and 52 pin or similar, all with flash of course and maybe a little faster. Regards John Samperi ****************************************************** Ampertronics Pty. Ltd. 11 Brokenwood Place Baulkham Hills, NSW 2153 AUSTRALIA Tel. (02) 9674-6495 Fax (02) 9674-8745 Email: Website http://ampertronics.com.au * Electronic Design * Technical Services * Contract Assembly ******************************************************

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Thanks John, I have used the Phillips XA and a range of the PIC devices for different applications but I like to have one general application device which I will use for 'non specific' applications (i.e. a device that you can generate a library of functions for different procedures). I had a look at the ATmega128 data sheet (start with the best) and it looks interesting. What is your impression of the AT device(s)? Is there any programmable internal chip selects (similar to the CSIO1, CSprog, CSgen of the F1)? Can you easily interface external memory. The RAM (4K) may be a bit small for some applications. Currently I use the HC11F1 and a PSD device which give great flexibility with its programmable PLDs. All assistance appreciated for an 'old timer' looking to be a 'young timer'. The saying about old dogs and new tricks keeps coming to mind. PFC. ----- Original Message ----- From: <> To: <> Sent: Wednesday, January 21, 2004 8:45 AM Subject: Re: [m68HC11] Horray Motorola!!! > At 08:26 AM 21/01/04 -0000, you wrote: > > > >What in the opinion of the other 'old timers' would be a good sustainable > >replacement for the 11? > > > > Well if you want to stick to Motorola then the HC12 is what is on offer > as an upgrade to the HC11 or if you want to downgrade then you can > go to the HC908. > > If you don't really care about sticking to Motorola then the world is your > oyster as they say (personally I detest seafood :-)) > > There are many excellent processors with the capability of the HC11 > nowdays and pretty much all of them offer flash memory at a cheaper > price most of the time. I have used the AVR 90S8535 (now Mega8535) > from Atmel as a replacement for the HC11 (not as many nice timers though) > > Once you get around the RISC architecture that many companies offer > you can go from an 8 pin device to a 100+pin device that uses exactly the > same core. You will find that what you have invested in time with the HC11 > as far as learning the peripherals will come in handy anyway. > > I would love to have an HC11 core say in an 8, 20, 28, 44 and 52 pin or > similar, all with flash of course and maybe a little faster. > > Regards > > John Samperi > > ****************************************************** > Ampertronics Pty. Ltd. > 11 Brokenwood Place Baulkham Hills, NSW 2153 AUSTRALIA > Tel. (02) 9674-6495 Fax (02) 9674-8745 > Email: > Website http://ampertronics.com.au > * Electronic Design * Technical Services * Contract Assembly > ******************************************************

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All: Since I abhor the brain-dead PIC architecture, and Atmel doesn't seem much better, I'll be sticking with Motorola. Probably the '12, but the 908 stuff in some cases is even more powerful than the '11, so I don't necessarily see it as a downgrade. The Nitrons are nice "PIC Killers" for small apps, as well. Long live Motorola! Regards, Darrell Norquay Datalog Technology Inc. Calgary, Alberta, Canada Voice: (403) 243-2220 Fax: (403) 243-2872 Email: Web: www.datalog.ab.ca

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At 09:08 AM 22/01/04 -0700, you wrote: >Since I abhor the brain-dead PIC architecture, and Atmel doesn't >seem much better, I'll be sticking with Motorola. That was exactly my feeling. The 6800 was my first love, some 25 years ago now, and have worked most of my life with the Moto architecture, well it felt confortable. But the lack pin compatible devices (i.e. an HC12 in a 711 pinout) as an upgrade to the no longer supported HC11 convinced me that I had to get my brain into gear, and as someone told me when I started looking at the PIC "You need to think differentely". I have now pretty much settled on the Atmel stuff BECAUSE of the upward compatible devices available. If they drop a device they have one which is pin and pretty much code compatible, with more features and at a cheaper price than the predecessor. This seem to apply to the PICs too. Regards John Samperi ****************************************************** Ampertronics Pty. Ltd. 11 Brokenwood Place Baulkham Hills, NSW 2153 AUSTRALIA Tel. (02) 9674-6495 Fax (02) 9674-8745 Email: Website http://ampertronics.com.au * Electronic Design * Technical Services * Contract Assembly ******************************************************

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Forum, As well as the distinct advantageous of the Microchip devices (availability, backward compatibly, low cost support device e.g. emulators), the "brain-dead PIC architecture" does some jobs very well and at an acceptable price. If its works don't knock it. I would like to stay with the old HC11F1 for new designs but are they going to be available in two years time? A lot of money is spent developing new circuits which has to be recouped over the life of the product. If you cant get the processor you have to redesign hence more money out the window. The Moto architecture is nice and I have worked with it for years but when it comes down to brass tacks, history doesn't pay the bills. We need something that's going to be around next year! I would like to support your statement of "Long live Motorola", but will they show the same loyalty to us? PFC. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Darrell N." <> To: <> Sent: Thursday, January 22, 2004 4:08 PM Subject: Re: [m68HC11] Horray Motorola!!! > > All: > > Since I abhor the brain-dead PIC architecture, and Atmel doesn't > seem much better, I'll be sticking with Motorola. Probably the > '12, but the 908 stuff in some cases is even more powerful than > the '11, so I don't necessarily see it as a downgrade. The > Nitrons are nice "PIC Killers" for small apps, as well. Long > live Motorola! > Regards, > Darrell Norquay > > Datalog Technology Inc. Calgary, Alberta, Canada > Voice: (403) 243-2220 Fax: (403) 243-2872 > Email: Web: www.datalog.ab.ca

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In a message dated 1/23/04 5:58:14 AM Eastern Standard Time, writes: I would like to stay with the old HC11F1 for new designs but are they going to be available in two years time? ============================= If you log on to the Moto site and sign in, you can fill in a 'contact us' form that gets read right in Austin, the microcontroller capital of the world. I sent em one that said something like 'hey guys there's a market for an hc11f1 with flash. It already has a 5mhz bus. It could be an avr eater' and I got a call back the next day on the phone. Moto Semiconductor Products Sector is a separate profit center now, so supposedly, can make products for someone besides moto telephones and gm cars. Anyone from Moto out there care to comment?? I dare ya! [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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----- Original Message ----- From: <> To: < > I would like to stay with the old HC11F1 for new designs but are they going > to be available in two years time? A lot of money is spent developing new > circuits which has to be recouped over the life of the product. If you cant > get the processor you have to redesign hence more money out the window. I'm afraid this is a bit of negative thinking. If you don't buy a product fearing it won't be available in a couple of years, how do you expect that product to keep selling so that it will be available? If you had the same worries about any other processor (and you also managed to talked others into thinking the same), its sales would go down and eventually the product would be dropped. > The Moto architecture is nice and I have worked with it for years but when > it comes down to brass tacks, history doesn't pay the bills. We need > something that's going to be around next year! I've been on this list since '97 or '98 and I've heard about the HC11's 'imminent' death since at least three or four years ago. It just hasn't happened. The HC11 will certainly be with us next year (there are no official notices to the contrary, so unless Mot goes bankrupt and someone doesn't take over the production of their chips, no problem). Will it never die? I didn't say that! And, even if we get an official notice within a year from now about a possible discontinuance, we will have yet another year to go (to make the last orders to cover stocked PCB's until we redesign), and so on. Besides, a PCB redesign is often needed because some other (seemingly insignificant) part vanishes from the market. Do you choose all the parts on your PCB with the same worry about next year? Most (less complicated) parts don't even give notices before they die. So, will the HC11 be around next year? Definitely. The year after that? Almost certainly. The year after that? Very likely. The year after that? I think so. The year after that? Maybe, who knows. At this point, we're four to five years ahead from today. Can you be any surer for any other MCU it will still be there? I don't think so. In this industry, we've seen chips introduced and disappear within a couple of years, even from big manufacturers. For me, there is no guarantee a newer chip will have better future in the long run. But it all depends how long you want to make this 'long-run'! If you look down 20 years from now, I'm sure all of today's chips will be either dead or dying. So, it really doesn't matter which one you choose today, the 20-year prospect is pretty much the same for all. How far down you want to look to feel safe? This is a personal issue. For me, a couple of years is enough. And, I'm sure I'll have plenty of *official* warning (and not hearsay) to switch to something else. Now, I'm not suggesting you stick to the HC11 no matter what. If your design requires capabilities not possible with the the HC11, obviously you must use something else. But, if for a given design the HC11 would have been your preferred choice, if you didn't fear its demise, so your only problem with this MCU is "will it be around next year?", I'd say use it. Or else, you're contributing to its earlier death yourself. And don't take my word for it to use it. Motorola hasn't announced any discontinuances for the HC11 yet, which means they're selling quite well, yet. The stock levels and lead times at my supplier (EBV) seem to indicate the same. So, why panic? (Besides, will *we* be around next year? I don't mean to be morbid, and I'm too young to depart but there are no guarantees for anything.) > I would like to support your statement of "Long live Motorola", but will > they show the same loyalty to us? My comments above notwithstanding, I agree with that statement. I saw my all-time favorite 8-bitter, the 6809, pass away (and I will pretend to never understand why). Here's why, if I don't pretend: It seems they offered something too good too early, so not having much room for improvement from then on, they withdrew it and now they're going back to it from a different path, one step at a time (order is not important, a step back or a step forward to confuse us a little so we don't see the master plan), HC05, HC08, HC11, HC12, ...., HC09 (the ultimate goal for an 8/16-bit MCU)!!! They will name it something else, of course, and make the object code incompatible so such ridiculous claims as this one will not stand on solid ground. Unfortunately, big corporations think *only* with their wallet. What they can't understand is their wallet would be fatter if they thought with true progress in mind. Once they had created the 6809, the HC11, the HC08, the HC12, and anything else (at this level) since then can not be considered steps forward. But, we somehow have to live with it until the day we can build our own processors in the comfort of our home or office. > PFC.

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At 07:36 AM 23/01/04 EST, you wrote: >I sent em one that said something like 'hey guys there's a market for an >hc11f1 with flash. It already has a 5mhz bus. It could be an avr eater' and I got >a call back the next day on the phone. But did you get the chip ? :-)) Regards John Samperi ****************************************************** Ampertronics Pty. Ltd. 11 Brokenwood Place Baulkham Hills, NSW 2153 AUSTRALIA Tel. (02) 9674-6495 Fax (02) 9674-8745 Email: Website http://ampertronics.com.au * Electronic Design * Technical Services * Contract Assembly ******************************************************

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