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Motorola "moderator" have taken issues with me putting on my default signature line that one can join our mailing lists, possibly for tech support on OUR products. I don't know what you;d call this besides strong arm tactic. Perhaps you guys won't see this either, but I will be sure to post it to everywhere that will accept uncensored posts. Wow, and I thought there is an element of supporting 3rd party vendors here. SPAM? Wow. The Yahoo ads on the bottom is a lot more spam than my posts are. // richard <http://www.imagecraft.com

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Hi Richard, Hang in here. This list needs you and all the hardware and tool suppliers and supporters it can get. I mean, what a great forum when we can post something and get informed replies from the "experts". It will be a sad day when our right to choose is thwarted by restricting the options presented to us. Perhaps the Moto moderator could suggest a compromise signature. In the meantime, this list and the other Moto lists need you. Bob Furber > Motorola "moderator" have taken issues with me putting on my default > signature line that one can join our mailing lists, possibly for tech > support on OUR products. I don't know what you;d call this > besides strong > arm tactic. Perhaps you guys won't see this either, but I > will be sure to > post it to everywhere that will accept uncensored posts. > > Wow, and I thought there is an element of supporting 3rd > party vendors > here. SPAM? Wow. The Yahoo ads on the bottom is a lot more > spam than my > posts are. > > // richard <http://www.imagecraft.com > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > ---------------------~--> > Sell a Home with Ease! > http://us.click.yahoo.com/SrPZMC/kTmEAA/MVfIAA/dN_tlB/TM > ---------------------------------------------------------- ---- > -------~-> > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:

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> Perhaps the Moto moderator could suggest a compromise > signature. In the meantime, this list and the other Moto > lists need you. > > Bob Furber If its any consulation, as a list member I don't mind the informative signatures. I like access to any links that may provide me with more information. As long as its "On-Topic", i dont see any harm. my .02, bob d.

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For another view of where Motorola is headed -- The top banner headline from the Richmond, VA "Times-Dispatch" "(M) MOTOROLA SENDS A MESSAGE...", "Not Now, Not Ever", "Cancels chip factory, will sell property". For further information, try timesdispatch.com Bob Smith --- Avoid computer viruses, Practice safe hex --- -- Specializing in small, cost effective embedded control systems -- Robert L. (Bob) Smith Smith Machine Works, Inc. 9900 Lumlay Road Richmond, VA 23236 804/745-1065 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Richard F. Man" <> To: <>; <>; <> Sent: Friday, September 27, 2002 11:45 AM Subject: [m68HC11] ImageCraft will not be participating anymore > Motorola "moderator" have taken issues with me putting on my default > signature line that one can join our mailing lists, possibly for tech > support on OUR products. I don't know what you;d call this besides strong > arm tactic. Perhaps you guys won't see this either, but I will be sure to > post it to everywhere that will accept uncensored posts. > > Wow, and I thought there is an element of supporting 3rd party vendors > here. SPAM? Wow. The Yahoo ads on the bottom is a lot more spam than my > posts are. > > // richard <http://www.imagecraft.com > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:

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I think this is a mistake on Motorola's part. Richard Man has been a useful contributor for years. The tag line that mentions his mailing list is far less obtrusive than the Yahoo blurbs--which are usually completely unrelated to the subject at hand! (Like the vitamin ad!) When Richard does mention Imagecraft compiler tools, he always identifies his association, so that there is no possible confusion between "editorial" and "advertising." That is the ethical line that should be enforced-- not complete prohibition of the mentioning of third-party products. Motorola needs lots of independent tool providers, not just Metrowerks. It will actually hurt Motorola's chip sales if there is not a variety of tools offered by many vendors. They should be actively welcomed to this forum, provided they behave reasonably-- not pushed off. I believe this decision is poor judgment on Motorola's part, and Motorola marketing people should reconsider carefully. Best regards, Kerry Berland Silicon Engines 2101 Oxford Road Des Plaines, IL 60018 USA 847-803-6860 Fax 847-803-6870 ----- Original Message ----- From: Richard F. Man To: ; ; Sent: Friday, September 27, 2002 10:45 AM Subject: [m68HC11] ImageCraft will not be participating anymore Motorola "moderator" have taken issues with me putting on my default signature line that one can join our mailing lists, possibly for tech support on OUR products. I don't know what you;d call this besides strong arm tactic. Perhaps you guys won't see this either, but I will be sure to post it to everywhere that will accept uncensored posts. Wow, and I thought there is an element of supporting 3rd party vendors here. SPAM? Wow. The Yahoo ads on the bottom is a lot more spam than my posts are. // richard <http://www.imagecraft.com Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

______________________________
Stellaris® MCU Family: New Parts, New Package, New Price.


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Motorola hav a hide suggesting that we all needed to move to the yahoo server because they didn't want the maintainance and moderation hassles - even as I recall it sighting legal reasons why they shouldn't. Since then I can recall more "censorship" and moderation than before we moved to Yahoo. And when it culminates in a scrap like this I can't keep from saying how disappointing Motorola's recent behaviour toward this community of professionals has been. Is this a Motorola owned and run list? If so then moderate away, just don't give us bullsh*t about why you couldn't manage the list servers yourselves. If not, hands off! Jonathan Masters

______________________________
Stellaris® MCU Family: New Parts, New Package, New Price.


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As the administrator of other Yahoo lists, I will attempt clarify the status of this list ("group"). The list is a _public_ forum administered by a Motorola employe The following is quoted from a recent post to the group by that admisistrator-- "This is the moderator for this group . . . . [and I] ask that any responses / questions to this subject be sent directly to me at my email address mailto:" The question of group "ownership" is a vague one: 1. In my opinion, Motorola yielded "ownership" of the original 68HC11 list when it shut down its "major-domo" list servers due, apparently, to "legal considerations" (that statement from the original group administrator after the changeover). 2. It can, therefore, be said that the list is now "owned" by the group subscribers. 3. If anybody "owns" the group, it must be Yahoo since they own the facilities which implement the group and have the power to override anything that the moderator or any subscriber does on it. Note that this group is _not_ moderated. I does appear to be "monitored" by the group administrator who has used the list to express his concern about certain postings. The group administrator has the ability to 'remove' and 'ban' individual subscribers, therefore, it is within his power to take the actions that he did. The only alternative to accepting his "rules" of conduct is to create a different list at Yahoo or another list server. The above information is based on my experiences adminsitrating other lists at Yahoo. The 68HC11 group is important to me. It has provided the answers to many questions and I, in return, have made many contributions to the list. I will, therefore, remain neutral in the current battle but, likewise, saddened. Bob Smith --- Avoid computer viruses, Practice safe hex --- -- Specializing in small, cost effective embedded control systems -- Robert L. (Bob) Smith Smith Machine Works, Inc. 9900 Lumlay Road Richmond, VA 23236 804/745-1065 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jonathan Masters" <> To: <> Sent: Saturday, September 28, 2002 2:11 AM Subject: Re: [m68HC11] ImageCraft will not be participating anymore > Motorola hav a hide suggesting that we all needed to move to the yahoo server because they didn't want the maintainance and moderation hassles - even as I recall it sighting legal reasons why they shouldn't. > > Since then I can recall more "censorship" and moderation than before we moved to Yahoo. And when it culminates in a scrap like this I can't keep from saying how disappointing Motorola's recent behaviour toward this community of professionals has been. > > Is this a Motorola owned and run list? If so then moderate away, just don't give us bullsh*t about why you couldn't manage the list servers yourselves. If not, hands off! > > Jonathan Masters > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:

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Robert, My original post was sent with high blood pressure. Thankyou for this response, It does consider all the issues that I think should be of concern. Jonathan Masters Robert Smith wrote: > As the administrator of other Yahoo lists, I will attempt clarify the status > of this list ("group"). > > The list is a _public_ forum administered by a Motorola employe > > The following is quoted from a recent post to the group by that > admisistrator-- > > "This is the moderator for this group . . . . [and I] ask that any responses > / questions to this subject be sent directly to me at my email address > mailto:" > > The question of group "ownership" is a vague one: > > 1. In my opinion, Motorola yielded "ownership" of the original 68HC11 list > when it shut down its "major-domo" list servers due, apparently, to "legal > considerations" (that statement from the original group administrator after > the changeover). > > 2. It can, therefore, be said that the list is now "owned" by the group > subscribers. > > 3. If anybody "owns" the group, it must be Yahoo since they own the > facilities which implement the group and have the power to override anything > that the moderator or any subscriber does on it. > > Note that this group is _not_ moderated. I does appear to be "monitored" by > the group administrator > who has used the list to express his concern about certain postings. > > The group administrator has the ability to 'remove' and 'ban' individual > subscribers, therefore, it is within his power to take the actions that he > did. > > The only alternative to accepting his "rules" of conduct is to create a > different list at Yahoo or another list server. > > The above information is based on my experiences adminsitrating other lists > at Yahoo. > > The 68HC11 group is important to me. It has provided the answers to many > questions and I, in return, have made many contributions to the list. I > will, therefore, remain neutral in the current battle but, likewise, > saddened. > > Bob Smith > > --- Avoid computer viruses, Practice safe hex --- > > -- Specializing in small, cost effective > embedded control systems -- > > Robert L. (Bob) Smith > Smith Machine Works, Inc. > 9900 Lumlay Road > Richmond, VA 23236 804/745-1065 > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Jonathan Masters" <> > To: <> > Sent: Saturday, September 28, 2002 2:11 AM > Subject: Re: [m68HC11] ImageCraft will not be participating anymore > > > Motorola hav a hide suggesting that we all needed to move to the yahoo > server because they didn't want the maintainance and moderation hassles - > even as I recall it sighting legal reasons why they shouldn't. > > > > Since then I can recall more "censorship" and moderation than before we > moved to Yahoo. And when it culminates in a scrap like this I can't keep > from saying how disappointing Motorola's recent behaviour toward this > community of professionals has been. > > > > Is this a Motorola owned and run list? If so then moderate away, just > don't give us bullsh*t about why you couldn't manage the list servers > yourselves. If not, hands off! > > > > Jonathan Masters > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:

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At 02:04 PM 27/09/02 -0400, you wrote: >For another view of where Motorola is headed -- > >"(M) MOTOROLA SENDS A MESSAGE...", "Not Now, Not Ever", "Cancels chip >factory, will sell property". DARN!! Here I am hoding my breath for the announcement of the imminent release of the 68HC911 (Flash HC11). :-)) Regards John Samperi ****************************************************** Ampertronics Pty. Ltd. 11 Brokenwood Place Baulkham Hills, NSW 2153 AUSTRALIA Tel. (02) 9674-6495 Fax (02) 9674-8745 Email: Website http://ampertronics.com.au * Electronic Design * Technical Services * Contract Assembly ******************************************************

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In a message dated 9/29/02 11:09:25 PM Eastern Daylight Time, writes: > DARN!! Here I am hoding my breath for the announcement of the imminent > release of the 68HC911 (Flash HC11). :-)) Yeah... the 5MHz bus speed version with the 20 MHz xtal... you want it in plcc or flat pak? [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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