Hello all,
The msp430 is known for its ultra low power consumption making it
ideal for battery operation in situations that do not require frequent
maintenance to replace the battery. However, and this is almost every
designer's dilemma, which battery type to use, especially if a small
physical size is preferred (about the size of a typical PDA battery)

If you have a system that uses one msp430 to monitor an event for
about 6 months but you need extra power to drive other power hungry
components (order of 600mAh) for 30 minutes or so, which battery can
supply this type of instant power and have a long life?

I know answers are tightly coupled to specific designs, but in general
does anyone have any thoughts about what kind of battery to use in
these kinds if situations? Are rechargeable batteries suitable? Do
Li-ion batteries hold their charge for extended periods? Or perhaps
one can use a lithium coin cell to power the msp430 and switch to a
different battery pack to drive everything else when needed?

Just wondering what other people would do..

Thanks,

-- A
------------------------------------



(You need to be a member of msp430 -- send a blank email to msp430-subscribe@yahoogroups.com )

Does it draw 600mA for 30 minutes? Does it consume 600mAh of battery
capacity over the 30minute period. In general Li-poly batteries offer
light weight, high capacity per unit volume and high current capability.
Typically being able to deliver at least 2C continuous current( C
=capacity, so a 1Ah battery can usually deliver 2A continuously). For
non-rechargable and higher capacity per unit volume Lithium Thionyl
Chloride are an excellent choice normally, but be careful to specify the
high pulse current type. these are aso available in high temperature
options, and generally have the best low temperature performance of
readily available small battery technologies. A typical 'C; cell has a
capacity of 8Ah or better. An even better option is Li-Fe, but these are
hard to find and expensive, and probably not necessary for your
application. Their main attributes are even higher pulse current
capacity, and continuous current capacity, low toxicity and high energy
density.

Al

abufadel wrote:

>Hello all,
> The msp430 is known for its ultra low power consumption making it
>ideal for battery operation in situations that do not require frequent
>maintenance to replace the battery. However, and this is almost every
>designer's dilemma, which battery type to use, especially if a small
>physical size is preferred (about the size of a typical PDA battery)
>
>If you have a system that uses one msp430 to monitor an event for
>about 6 months but you need extra power to drive other power hungry
>components (order of 600mAh) for 30 minutes or so, which battery can
>supply this type of instant power and have a long life?
>
>I know answers are tightly coupled to specific designs, but in general
>does anyone have any thoughts about what kind of battery to use in
>these kinds if situations? Are rechargeable batteries suitable? Do
>Li-ion batteries hold their charge for extended periods? Or perhaps
>one can use a lithium coin cell to power the msp430 and switch to a
>different battery pack to drive everything else when needed?
>
>Just wondering what other people would do..
>
>Thanks,
>
>-- A
>------------------------------------



(You need to be a member of msp430 -- send a blank email to msp430-subscribe@yahoogroups.com )

What is the power is the rest of the time?
Is cost an issue? Do you have a target price?
Is size or weight an issue? Does it have to fit in something?

Do you want to recharge? Can you use Solar to recharge or keep charged?

Kip

On Fri, 2008-06-27 at 11:19 +0000, abufadel wrote:
> Hello all,
> The msp430 is known for its ultra low power consumption making it
> ideal for battery operation in situations that do not require frequent
> maintenance to replace the battery. However, and this is almost every
> designer's dilemma, which battery type to use, especially if a small
> physical size is preferred (about the size of a typical PDA battery)
>
> If you have a system that uses one msp430 to monitor an event for
> about 6 months but you need extra power to drive other power hungry
> components (order of 600mAh) for 30 minutes or so, which battery can
> supply this type of instant power and have a long life?
>
> I know answers are tightly coupled to specific designs, but in general
> does anyone have any thoughts about what kind of battery to use in
> these kinds if situations? Are rechargeable batteries suitable? Do
> Li-ion batteries hold their charge for extended periods? Or perhaps
> one can use a lithium coin cell to power the msp430 and switch to a
> different battery pack to drive everything else when needed?
>
> Just wondering what other people would do..
>
> Thanks,
>
> -- A
> ------------------------------------



(You need to be a member of msp430 -- send a blank email to msp430-subscribe@yahoogroups.com )

Yes, I should have mentioned more info...
--- In m...@yahoogroups.com, Kipton Moravec wrote:
>
> What is the power is the rest of the time?

Fluctuates between 10uA and 20mA depending if the wirless radio is
listening or not. I have not yet figured out how often do I need to
turn on the radio to listen. I am using a CC2500 to listen for a
radio control signal. It takes about 1sec for the CC2500 chip to
wakeup and listen, so I am not sure how often do I need to listen yet.

> Is cost an issue? Do you have a target price?

I am trying to put cost aside to find out what is best available, so
no I do not have a target price.

> Is size or weight an issue? Does it have to fit in something?

Size has to be as small as possible. Ideally, if I can have it fit
within 1"x2.5"x.5". But if that is not achievable, the design will
have to be adapted to the battery size.

>
> Do you want to recharge? Can you use Solar to recharge or keep charged?

Recharging would be plus from a practical point of view but not a
necessity. I do not have the ability to run on solar power.
>
> Kip
>

Thanks a bunch...
------------------------------------



(You need to be a member of msp430 -- send a blank email to msp430-subscribe@yahoogroups.com )

--- In m...@yahoogroups.com, Onestone wrote:
>
> Does it draw 600mA for 30 minutes? Does it consume 600mAh of battery
> capacity over the 30minute period.

It draws 600mA for 30 minutes.
In general Li-poly batteries offer
> light weight, high capacity per unit volume and high current
capability.
> Typically being able to deliver at least 2C continuous current( C
> =capacity, so a 1Ah battery can usually deliver 2A continuously). For
> non-rechargable and higher capacity per unit volume Lithium Thionyl
> Chloride are an excellent choice normally, but be careful to specify
the
> high pulse current type. these are aso available in high temperature
> options, and generally have the best low temperature performance of
> readily available small battery technologies. A typical 'C; cell has a
> capacity of 8Ah or better. An even better option is Li-Fe, but these
are
> hard to find and expensive, and probably not necessary for your
> application. Their main attributes are even higher pulse current
> capacity, and continuous current capacity, low toxicity and high energy
> density.
>
> Al
>
> abufadel wrote:
>
> >Hello all,
> > The msp430 is known for its ultra low power consumption making it
> >ideal for battery operation in situations that do not require frequent
> >maintenance to replace the battery. However, and this is almost every
> >designer's dilemma, which battery type to use, especially if a small
> >physical size is preferred (about the size of a typical PDA battery)
> >
> >If you have a system that uses one msp430 to monitor an event for
> >about 6 months but you need extra power to drive other power hungry
> >components (order of 600mAh) for 30 minutes or so, which battery can
> >supply this type of instant power and have a long life?
> >
> >I know answers are tightly coupled to specific designs, but in general
> >does anyone have any thoughts about what kind of battery to use in
> >these kinds if situations? Are rechargeable batteries suitable? Do
> >Li-ion batteries hold their charge for extended periods? Or perhaps
> >one can use a lithium coin cell to power the msp430 and switch to a
> >different battery pack to drive everything else when needed?
> >
> >Just wondering what other people would do..
> >
> >Thanks,
> >
> >-- A
> >
> >
> >------------------------------------
> >
> >
> >
> >



(You need to be a member of msp430 -- send a blank email to msp430-subscribe@yahoogroups.com )

Because of your 6-month service period requirement, most rechargeable
batteries cannot make it. They will completely self-discharge in a few
months even if you do not draw any current at all.

I would just use two plain old alkaline cells. When they are new, you
get 2*1.7=3.4V. At end of battery life, you get 2*0.9=1.8V. MSP430 can
use this directly without a regulator. If this voltage range is not
okay for your power hungry peripheral, a ***low quiescent*** regulator
should be used and controlled by the MSP430.

--- In m...@yahoogroups.com, "abufadel" wrote:
>
> Yes, I should have mentioned more info...
> --- In m...@yahoogroups.com, Kipton Moravec wrote:
> >
> > What is the power is the rest of the time?
>
> Fluctuates between 10uA and 20mA depending if the wirless radio is
> listening or not. I have not yet figured out how often do I need to
> turn on the radio to listen. I am using a CC2500 to listen for a
> radio control signal. It takes about 1sec for the CC2500 chip to
> wakeup and listen, so I am not sure how often do I need to listen yet.
>
> > Is cost an issue? Do you have a target price?
>
> I am trying to put cost aside to find out what is best available, so
> no I do not have a target price.
>
> > Is size or weight an issue? Does it have to fit in something?
>
> Size has to be as small as possible. Ideally, if I can have it fit
> within 1"x2.5"x.5". But if that is not achievable, the design will
> have to be adapted to the battery size.
>
> >
> > Do you want to recharge? Can you use Solar to recharge or keep
charged?
>
> Recharging would be plus from a practical point of view but not a
> necessity. I do not have the ability to run on solar power.
> >
> > Kip
> > Thanks a bunch...
>

------------------------------------



(You need to be a member of msp430 -- send a blank email to msp430-subscribe@yahoogroups.com )

I would use lipo batteries for high current & long shelve life (I've been using these in the last couple of years for my remote controlled planes & helicopters)

http://www.cheapbatterypacks.com/main.asp?sid=1174655&pgid=showlipos&man=PRC&cat=P20

http://www.hobbycity.com/hobbycity/store/uh_listCategoriesAndProducts.asp?catname=Li%2DPoly+%28All+brands%29&idCategory=86&ParentCat=85

My experience is that the voltage and capacity is still there even after a year sitting idle.

Just be careful with these LIPO cells (they can cause big FIRE!!! ball if overcharged) Don't discharge it bellow 3v (per cell) and DO NOT over charge or charge it at higher 4.2v per cell.

In your application, what happens after the load (the 600ma) drains all the power?

Thanh

----- Original Message ----
From: abufadel
To: m...@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, June 27, 2008 7:19:14 AM
Subject: [msp430] What's a suitable battery?
Hello all,
The msp430 is known for its ultra low power consumption making it
ideal for battery operation in situations that do not require frequent
maintenance to replace the battery. However, and this is almost every
designer's dilemma, which battery type to use, especially if a small
physical size is preferred (about the size of a typical PDA battery)

If you have a system that uses one msp430 to monitor an event for
about 6 months but you need extra power to drive other power hungry
components (order of 600mAh) for 30 minutes or so, which battery can
supply this type of instant power and have a long life?

I know answers are tightly coupled to specific designs, but in general
does anyone have any thoughts about what kind of battery to use in
these kinds if situations? Are rechargeable batteries suitable? Do
Li-ion batteries hold their charge for extended periods? Or perhaps
one can use a lithium coin cell to power the msp430 and switch to a
different battery pack to drive everything else when needed?

Just wondering what other people would do..

Thanks,

-- A

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
------------------------------------



(You need to be a member of msp430 -- send a blank email to msp430-subscribe@yahoogroups.com )

In your other reply you stated that you were using a CC2500. This does
not take 1 second to wake up from low power mode, only when totally
powered off. Study the WOR application notes thoroughly. By suitable
chip configuration you can get mean current consumption with micro down
below 5uA. That enables you to power this thing for over 12 months from
a pair of silver oxide cells (SR41W) but make sure you use the KOH
material or HIGH pulse current types. NaOH material (Sr41SW) is no good.
Self discharge on li-poly is low, they will happily run for well over a
year.

You state below 600mA for 30 minutes. Is thyis all i one session or
spread over time. these tings are crucuail whehn assessng battery life.

Your dimensions are huge. Plenty of space for almost any battery
technology. If you need to discharge 600mA continuously for 30 minutes I
would certainly go for li-poly. There are high rate Li-poly batteries
availale that can handle continuous discharges of 25C and burtss up to
30C, so a 1Ah battery could provide 25A for around 12 minutes. Or 600mA
for 30 minutes and still retain around 500mAh capacity (after derating
for self discharge etc) for supply of the low current circuits. Such a
device would measaure around 60x35x6.8mm

Al

abufadel wrote:

>--- In m...@yahoogroups.com, Onestone wrote:
>
>
>>Does it draw 600mA for 30 minutes? Does it consume 600mAh of battery
>>capacity over the 30minute period.
>>
>>It draws 600mA for 30 minutes.
>In general Li-poly batteries offer
>
>
>>light weight, high capacity per unit volume and high current
>>
>>
>capability.
>
>
>>Typically being able to deliver at least 2C continuous current( C
>>=capacity, so a 1Ah battery can usually deliver 2A continuously). For
>>non-rechargable and higher capacity per unit volume Lithium Thionyl
>>Chloride are an excellent choice normally, but be careful to specify
>>
>>
>the
>
>
>>high pulse current type. these are aso available in high temperature
>>options, and generally have the best low temperature performance of
>>readily available small battery technologies. A typical 'C; cell has a
>>capacity of 8Ah or better. An even better option is Li-Fe, but these
>>
>>
>are
>
>
>>hard to find and expensive, and probably not necessary for your
>>application. Their main attributes are even higher pulse current
>>capacity, and continuous current capacity, low toxicity and high energy
>>density.
>>
>>Al
>>
>>abufadel wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>>Hello all,
>>> The msp430 is known for its ultra low power consumption making it
>>>ideal for battery operation in situations that do not require frequent
>>>maintenance to replace the battery. However, and this is almost every
>>>designer's dilemma, which battery type to use, especially if a small
>>>physical size is preferred (about the size of a typical PDA battery)
>>>
>>>If you have a system that uses one msp430 to monitor an event for
>>>about 6 months but you need extra power to drive other power hungry
>>>components (order of 600mAh) for 30 minutes or so, which battery can
>>>supply this type of instant power and have a long life?
>>>
>>>I know answers are tightly coupled to specific designs, but in general
>>>does anyone have any thoughts about what kind of battery to use in
>>>these kinds if situations? Are rechargeable batteries suitable? Do
>>>Li-ion batteries hold their charge for extended periods? Or perhaps
>>>one can use a lithium coin cell to power the msp430 and switch to a
>>>different battery pack to drive everything else when needed?
>>>
>>>Just wondering what other people would do..
>>>
>>>Thanks,
>>>
>>>-- A
>>>
>>>
>>>------------------------------------
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>



(You need to be a member of msp430 -- send a blank email to msp430-subscribe@yahoogroups.com )

old_cow_yellow wrote:
> Because of your 6-month service period requirement, most rechargeable
> batteries cannot make it. They will completely self-discharge in a few
> months even if you do not draw any current at all.
>
> I would just use two plain old alkaline cells. When they are new, you
> get 2*1.7=3.4V. At end of battery life, you get 2*0.9=1.8V. MSP430 can
> use this directly without a regulator. If this voltage range is not
> okay for your power hungry peripheral, a ***low quiescent*** regulator
> should be used and controlled by the MSP430.
>

I agree. Alkalines are cheap and you can buy them everywhere. The
voltage would depend on what the "other power hungry
components" are. If they need more voltage try not to use an LDO if
possible. Many of those have weird pathologies. Boosting with a step-up
converter is another option but less efficient.

IME good quality D-cells go forever. AA cells, too, but I have seen
leakage after a few years more often than with D-cells.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/
------------------------------------



(You need to be a member of msp430 -- send a blank email to msp430-subscribe@yahoogroups.com )

Not all alkalines can reliably deliver 600mA, especially for 30minutes
continuous.

Here in Australia Duracells cost me more than Li-poly does. I can get a
1500mAh Li-poly battery for around $3.80, whereas a two pack of Duracell
AA's cost up to $7. Energiser Lithiums are $14 a pair.

Al

Joerg wrote:

>old_cow_yellow wrote:
>
>
>>Because of your 6-month service period requirement, most rechargeable
>>batteries cannot make it. They will completely self-discharge in a few
>>months even if you do not draw any current at all.
>>
>>I would just use two plain old alkaline cells. When they are new, you
>>get 2*1.7=3.4V. At end of battery life, you get 2*0.9=1.8V. MSP430 can
>>use this directly without a regulator. If this voltage range is not
>>okay for your power hungry peripheral, a ***low quiescent*** regulator
>>should be used and controlled by the MSP430.
>>
>>
>>I agree. Alkalines are cheap and you can buy them everywhere. The
>voltage would depend on what the "other power hungry
>components" are. If they need more voltage try not to use an LDO if
>possible. Many of those have weird pathologies. Boosting with a step-up
>converter is another option but less efficient.
>
>IME good quality D-cells go forever. AA cells, too, but I have seen
>leakage after a few years more often than with D-cells.
>
>
>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
------------------------------------



(You need to be a member of msp430 -- send a blank email to msp430-subscribe@yahoogroups.com )

Onestone wrote:
> Not all alkalines can reliably deliver 600mA, especially for 30minutes
> continuous.
>
> Here in Australia Duracells cost me more than Li-poly does. I can get a
> 1500mAh Li-poly battery for around $3.80, whereas a two pack of Duracell
> AA's cost up to $7. Energiser Lithiums are $14 a pair.
>

A two-pack of Duracell AA is $7? Ouch! Even gas stations in the boonies
don't charge that much out here. I can get a 48-pack of house brand AA
alkalines from Costco for around $10. About $0.20 per battery. They also
have Duracell, maybe 10-20c more per battery, don't remember because I
always buy the house brand.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/
------------------------------------



(You need to be a member of msp430 -- send a blank email to msp430-subscribe@yahoogroups.com )

No Name brands are Okay, but Duracells are better than most. For example
My point and shoot camera uses either 2 AA cells or a lithium pack. If I
use Lithium AA's or the single Lithium cell I get at least 600 shots,
most with flash. If I use Duracells I get about 80. If I use standard
AA's even Ever ready Blacks I get "Low battery" even with a new pair of
batteries.

We get ripped off on all fronts here I just got quoted $10 a side for a
1mm spaced PCb. It might meet MIL spec but so what $10 is ludicrous, it
isn't even water tight. i can get one for $0.15 a side with a sealing
end cap.

Al

Joerg wrote:

>Onestone wrote:
>
>
>>Not all alkalines can reliably deliver 600mA, especially for 30minutes
>>continuous.
>>
>>Here in Australia Duracells cost me more than Li-poly does. I can get a
>>1500mAh Li-poly battery for around $3.80, whereas a two pack of Duracell
>>AA's cost up to $7. Energiser Lithiums are $14 a pair.
>>
>>
>>A two-pack of Duracell AA is $7? Ouch! Even gas stations in the boonies
>don't charge that much out here. I can get a 48-pack of house brand AA
>alkalines from Costco for around $10. About $0.20 per battery. They also
>have Duracell, maybe 10-20c more per battery, don't remember because I
>always buy the house brand.
>
>
>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
------------------------------------



(You need to be a member of msp430 -- send a blank email to msp430-subscribe@yahoogroups.com )

Same here. Duracell always have been (and stay) my preferred alkaline. They are indeed too
expensive here in Oz, but you could do worse. Energiser for example are much more pricier and IMO
they're a bunch of crap. They're just souped up Eveready by that irritating 'never say die' etc.
moron marketing.
Tests I've done over time always showed Duracell to be superior to Energiser, especially
considering the pricing.
At one stage I used Maxell a lot, they were surprisingly good alkaline.

It's just another example of - if you pump enough money into marketing - you can get people to
believe anything.
And don't even get me started on the days of Wacko Jacko's 'Oi' Energiser ads, pathetic... :-)

(And what about prices of music CDs here et al. They were ~ $30 for ages - at a time when they
already should have been ~ $12 compared to eg. Europe. There sure are several monopolies here in
Oz that make obscene profits, while the average consumer just lays back and blissfully puts up
with it)

B rgds
Kris

-----Original Message-----
From: m...@yahoogroups.com [mailto:m...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Onestone
Sent: Sunday, 29 June 2008 2:17 AM
To: m...@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [msp430] Re: What's a suitable battery?

No Name brands are Okay, but Duracells are better than most. For example
My point and shoot camera uses either 2 AA cells or a lithium pack. If I
use Lithium AA's or the single Lithium cell I get at least 600 shots,
most with flash. If I use Duracells I get about 80. If I use standard
AA's even Ever ready Blacks I get "Low battery" even with a new pair of
batteries.

We get ripped off on all fronts here I just got quoted $10 a side for a
1mm spaced PCb. It might meet MIL spec but so what $10 is ludicrous, it
isn't even water tight. i can get one for $0.15 a side with a sealing
end cap.

Al

------------------------------------



(You need to be a member of msp430 -- send a blank email to msp430-subscribe@yahoogroups.com )

microbit wrote:
> Same here. Duracell always have been (and stay) my preferred alkaline. They are indeed too
> expensive here in Oz, but you could do worse. Energiser for example are much more pricier and IMO
> they're a bunch of crap. They're just souped up Eveready by that irritating 'never say die' etc.
> moron marketing.
Guys, guys, why don't you just chuck your expensive retailers and mail
order instead? I don't know this place in NSW but the prices sure look a
lot more reasonable:

http://mitronics.net.au/index.php?productID=11583

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

"gmail" domain blocked because of excessive spam.
Use another domain or send PM.
------------------------------------



(You need to be a member of msp430 -- send a blank email to msp430-subscribe@yahoogroups.com )

One day local distributors will come to realise that the days of them
holding a monopoly are long gone. that we live in a global marketplace
where I can just switch to the cheapest supplier. last Christmas I
bought a Ceramic Kitchen Knife. It was already expensive at $46. My wife
tried to use it a s a lever, and broke the blade. I went back to the
same place to buy a new one only to find the Price was now $96, a $40
rise in less than 6 months. Mobile phones are possibly the worst example
right now. Models that can be bought outright for $200 elsewhere are
going for $1000 here. I wonder what the iphone will cost. Not that I'd
buy one, but it is listed at $199 in the US, I bet the retail price here
is treble that. (just googled it and the price range is from $700 to
$1100 for the 8Gb, what a rip off).

Al

microbit wrote:

>Same here. Duracell always have been (and stay) my preferred alkaline. They are indeed too
>expensive here in Oz, but you could do worse. Energiser for example are much more pricier and IMO
>they're a bunch of crap. They're just souped up Eveready by that irritating 'never say die' etc.
>moron marketing.
>Tests I've done over time always showed Duracell to be superior to Energiser, especially
>considering the pricing.
>At one stage I used Maxell a lot, they were surprisingly good alkaline.
>
>It's just another example of - if you pump enough money into marketing - you can get people to
>believe anything.
>And don't even get me started on the days of Wacko Jacko's 'Oi' Energiser ads, pathetic... :-)
>
>(And what about prices of music CDs here et al. They were ~ $30 for ages - at a time when they
>already should have been ~ $12 compared to eg. Europe. There sure are several monopolies here in
>Oz that make obscene profits, while the average consumer just lays back and blissfully puts up
>with it)
>
>B rgds
>Kris
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: m...@yahoogroups.com [mailto:m...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Onestone
>Sent: Sunday, 29 June 2008 2:17 AM
>To: m...@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: Re: [msp430] Re: What's a suitable battery?
>
>No Name brands are Okay, but Duracells are better than most. For example
>My point and shoot camera uses either 2 AA cells or a lithium pack. If I
>use Lithium AA's or the single Lithium cell I get at least 600 shots,
>most with flash. If I use Duracells I get about 80. If I use standard
>AA's even Ever ready Blacks I get "Low battery" even with a new pair of
>batteries.
>
>We get ripped off on all fronts here I just got quoted $10 a side for a
>1mm spaced PCb. It might meet MIL spec but so what $10 is ludicrous, it
>isn't even water tight. i can get one for $0.15 a side with a sealing
>end cap.
>
>Al
>
>------------------------------------



(You need to be a member of msp430 -- send a blank email to msp430-subscribe@yahoogroups.com )

Because I normally bulk buy from offshore and ship with other parts on
the odd occasion I buy standard cells. Except in an asbolute emergency.

Al

Joerg wrote:

>microbit wrote:
>
>
>>Same here. Duracell always have been (and stay) my preferred alkaline. They are indeed too
>>expensive here in Oz, but you could do worse. Energiser for example are much more pricier and IMO
>>they're a bunch of crap. They're just souped up Eveready by that irritating 'never say die' etc.
>>moron marketing.
>>
>>
>Guys, guys, why don't you just chuck your expensive retailers and mail
>order instead? I don't know this place in NSW but the prices sure look a
>lot more reasonable:
>
>http://mitronics.net.au/index.php?productID=11583
>
>
>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
------------------------------------



(You need to be a member of msp430 -- send a blank email to msp430-subscribe@yahoogroups.com )

its $199 subsidised with an already expensive two year contract thats had
the price increased $10 per month from the older iphone, so don't feel too
bad.

> buy one, but it is listed at $199 in the US, I bet the retail price here
> is treble that. (just googled it and the price range is from $700 to
> $1100 for the 8Gb, what a rip off).

------------------------------------



(You need to be a member of msp430 -- send a blank email to msp430-subscribe@yahoogroups.com )

I don't feel badly. I wouldn't buy one anyway, no use for it. Typically
Apple I imagine. Like the Apple PC, basically relegated to niche markets
because it was too expensive and too proprietary. Even the popular iPod
is expensive and uses a proprietary storage format, and is a damned
sight harder to deal with than simpler MP3 players. I don't see the
iphone being any different, and won't be in the queue for one any time
soon.

Al

Charlie Wallace wrote:

>its $199 subsidised with an already expensive two year contract thats had
>the price increased $10 per month from the older iphone, so don't feel too
>bad.
>
>
>
>>buy one, but it is listed at $199 in the US, I bet the retail price here
>>is treble that. (just googled it and the price range is from $700 to
>>$1100 for the 8Gb, what a rip off).
>>
>>------------------------------------



(You need to be a member of msp430 -- send a blank email to msp430-subscribe@yahoogroups.com )

> Even the popular iPod is expensive and uses a proprietary storage format, and is a damned
> sight harder to deal with than simpler MP3 players.

iPod doesn't even sound that good anyway :-)
I got a nano a couple of years ago which my girlfriend uses now - Shortly after I got a Samsung
YP-T9BAB. At that time I paid $169 for the T9 (4 GB) compared to $208 for the Nano (1GB).
My T9 has 10 band custom EQ & Spectrum analyser, battery lasts 3 times longer, has Bluetooth,
plays movies, records voice and radio, plays OGG. Its sound is fantastic combined with Sennies
PX-200.
But you've gotta give Apple their credit, the rotary dial thingie is bloody handy.
This is a good site BTW : www.anythingbutipod.com

B rgds
Kris

-----Original Message-----
From: m...@yahoogroups.com [mailto:m...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Onestone
Sent: Sunday, 29 June 2008 1:49 PM
To: m...@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: OT:Re: [msp430] Re: What's a suitable battery?

I don't feel badly. I wouldn't buy one anyway, no use for it. Typically
Apple I imagine. Like the Apple PC, basically relegated to niche markets
because it was too expensive and too proprietary. Even the popular iPod
is expensive and uses a proprietary storage format, and is a damned
sight harder to deal with than simpler MP3 players. I don't see the
iphone being any different, and won't be in the queue for one any time
soon.

Al

Charlie Wallace wrote:

>its $199 subsidised with an already expensive two year contract thats had
>the price increased $10 per month from the older iphone, so don't feel too
>bad.
>
>
>
>>buy one, but it is listed at $199 in the US, I bet the retail price here
>>is treble that. (just googled it and the price range is from $700 to
>>$1100 for the 8Gb, what a rip off).
>>
>>------------------------------------



(You need to be a member of msp430 -- send a blank email to msp430-subscribe@yahoogroups.com )

I have had an iRiver (why the frickin 'i'?) for 2 years. 1Gb runs from a
single AA cell (duracell of course) and goes for weeks of use on a
single battery. $80 2 yeasr ago. Not slimline, but easy to use. cut and
paste from windows as if it was simply an external memory. Only
complaint is that it seems to reserve 370k for pictures or voice, which
I have no use for. otherwsie sound quality is good, volume tolerable,
much better now I have a set of TDK in ear phones that actually fit
inside my ear (standard ear buds don't fit my ears). I don't set up
playlists, why bother, either the songs are good or they're not, if not
they aren't on their anyway. pseudo equaliser, and various replay
options. Smarter than I care to use. I just hit randomize and let it
play away. that way the next song is always a surprise, be it Hawkwinds
'Brainstorm', U2's 'Mothers of the disappearred ' (an amazing track),
Donovans 'ballad of a Crystal man', or a bit of Beethoven.

it's actually quite funny to hear 'Ode to Joy' immediately after 'Ace of
Spades'.

Al

microbit wrote:

>>Even the popular iPod is expensive and uses a proprietary storage format, and is a damned
>>sight harder to deal with than simpler MP3 players.
>>
>>iPod doesn't even sound that good anyway :-)
>I got a nano a couple of years ago which my girlfriend uses now - Shortly after I got a Samsung
>YP-T9BAB. At that time I paid $169 for the T9 (4 GB) compared to $208 for the Nano (1GB).
>My T9 has 10 band custom EQ & Spectrum analyser, battery lasts 3 times longer, has Bluetooth,
>plays movies, records voice and radio, plays OGG. Its sound is fantastic combined with Sennies
>PX-200.
>But you've gotta give Apple their credit, the rotary dial thingie is bloody handy.
>This is a good site BTW : www.anythingbutipod.com
>
>B rgds
>Kris
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: m...@yahoogroups.com [mailto:m...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Onestone
>Sent: Sunday, 29 June 2008 1:49 PM
>To: m...@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: Re: OT:Re: [msp430] Re: What's a suitable battery?
>
>I don't feel badly. I wouldn't buy one anyway, no use for it. Typically
>Apple I imagine. Like the Apple PC, basically relegated to niche markets
>because it was too expensive and too proprietary. Even the popular iPod
>is expensive and uses a proprietary storage format, and is a damned
>sight harder to deal with than simpler MP3 players. I don't see the
>iphone being any different, and won't be in the queue for one any time
>soon.
>
>Al
>
>Charlie Wallace wrote:
>
>
>
>>its $199 subsidised with an already expensive two year contract thats had
>>the price increased $10 per month from the older iphone, so don't feel too
>>bad.
>>
>>
>>
>>>buy one, but it is listed at $199 in the US, I bet the retail price here
>>>is treble that. (just googled it and the price range is from $700 to
>>>$1100 for the 8Gb, what a rip off).
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>------------------------------------



(You need to be a member of msp430 -- send a blank email to msp430-subscribe@yahoogroups.com )

> it's actually quite funny to hear 'Ode to Joy' immediately after 'Ace of
> Spades'.

Is that Motorhead's 'Ace Of Spades" ? :-)

-----Original Message-----
From: m...@yahoogroups.com [mailto:m...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Onestone
Sent: Sunday, 29 June 2008 10:32 PM
To: m...@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: OT:Re: [msp430] Re: What's a suitable battery?

I have had an iRiver (why the frickin 'i'?) for 2 years. 1Gb runs from a
single AA cell (duracell of course) and goes for weeks of use on a
single battery. $80 2 yeasr ago. Not slimline, but easy to use. cut and
paste from windows as if it was simply an external memory. Only
complaint is that it seems to reserve 370k for pictures or voice, which
I have no use for. otherwsie sound quality is good, volume tolerable,
much better now I have a set of TDK in ear phones that actually fit
inside my ear (standard ear buds don't fit my ears). I don't set up
playlists, why bother, either the songs are good or they're not, if not
they aren't on their anyway. pseudo equaliser, and various replay
options. Smarter than I care to use. I just hit randomize and let it
play away. that way the next song is always a surprise, be it Hawkwinds
'Brainstorm', U2's 'Mothers of the disappearred ' (an amazing track),
Donovans 'ballad of a Crystal man', or a bit of Beethoven.

it's actually quite funny to hear 'Ode to Joy' immediately after 'Ace of
Spades'.

Al

------------------------------------



(You need to be a member of msp430 -- send a blank email to msp430-subscribe@yahoogroups.com )

Absolutely. Lemmy was originally the bassist with Hawkwind. Who actually
started the whole house/trance scene back in the late 60's and who are
still going quite strong.

Al

microbit wrote:

>>it's actually quite funny to hear 'Ode to Joy' immediately after 'Ace of
>>Spades'.
>>
>>Is that Motorhead's 'Ace Of Spades" ? :-)
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: m...@yahoogroups.com [mailto:m...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Onestone
>Sent: Sunday, 29 June 2008 10:32 PM
>To: m...@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: Re: OT:Re: [msp430] Re: What's a suitable battery?
>
>I have had an iRiver (why the frickin 'i'?) for 2 years. 1Gb runs from a
>single AA cell (duracell of course) and goes for weeks of use on a
>single battery. $80 2 yeasr ago. Not slimline, but easy to use. cut and
>paste from windows as if it was simply an external memory. Only
>complaint is that it seems to reserve 370k for pictures or voice, which
>I have no use for. otherwsie sound quality is good, volume tolerable,
>much better now I have a set of TDK in ear phones that actually fit
>inside my ear (standard ear buds don't fit my ears). I don't set up
>playlists, why bother, either the songs are good or they're not, if not
>they aren't on their anyway. pseudo equaliser, and various replay
>options. Smarter than I care to use. I just hit randomize and let it
>play away. that way the next song is always a surprise, be it Hawkwinds
>'Brainstorm', U2's 'Mothers of the disappearred ' (an amazing track),
>Donovans 'ballad of a Crystal man', or a bit of Beethoven.
>
>it's actually quite funny to hear 'Ode to Joy' immediately after 'Ace of
>Spades'.
>
>Al
>
>------------------------------------



(You need to be a member of msp430 -- send a blank email to msp430-subscribe@yahoogroups.com )

Oh yes and the Motorhead name came from a Hawkwind track of the same name.

Al

microbit wrote:

>>it's actually quite funny to hear 'Ode to Joy' immediately after 'Ace of
>>Spades'.
>>
>>Is that Motorhead's 'Ace Of Spades" ? :-)
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: m...@yahoogroups.com [mailto:m...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Onestone
>Sent: Sunday, 29 June 2008 10:32 PM
>To: m...@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: Re: OT:Re: [msp430] Re: What's a suitable battery?
>
>I have had an iRiver (why the frickin 'i'?) for 2 years. 1Gb runs from a
>single AA cell (duracell of course) and goes for weeks of use on a
>single battery. $80 2 yeasr ago. Not slimline, but easy to use. cut and
>paste from windows as if it was simply an external memory. Only
>complaint is that it seems to reserve 370k for pictures or voice, which
>I have no use for. otherwsie sound quality is good, volume tolerable,
>much better now I have a set of TDK in ear phones that actually fit
>inside my ear (standard ear buds don't fit my ears). I don't set up
>playlists, why bother, either the songs are good or they're not, if not
>they aren't on their anyway. pseudo equaliser, and various replay
>options. Smarter than I care to use. I just hit randomize and let it
>play away. that way the next song is always a surprise, be it Hawkwinds
>'Brainstorm', U2's 'Mothers of the disappearred ' (an amazing track),
>Donovans 'ballad of a Crystal man', or a bit of Beethoven.
>
>it's actually quite funny to hear 'Ode to Joy' immediately after 'Ace of
>Spades'.
>
>Al
>
>------------------------------------



(You need to be a member of msp430 -- send a blank email to msp430-subscribe@yahoogroups.com )

> Oh yes and the Motorhead name came from a Hawkwind track of the same name.

Interesting Al. Lemmy is quite a nice guy too actually, met him once when we were part of the bill
on an all day festival. (Motorhead didn't play, but they came to the (open air) venue).
I'm really surprised you know of this band, cool. I met a teenager on the street recently with a
MH T-shirt and he told me that indeed MH is still going strong... Wow...

Our final singer in the band (ex- Stainless Steel) was the brother of the lead guitar player in
Ostrogoth, Belgium's biggest HM band, so we knew a lot of people of the HM scene...
At one time Ozzy Osbourne came to Belgium to Forest National (Brussels). We were supposed to get
the support gig for Ozzy, but it went to another band called 'Acid' (also from the same town where
I grew up). Would have been great to brag that we supported OO but it didn't happen :-(

If you were into the 70s/80s HM scene in Germany (or know of it) - ie. the main part being the
Schenker family such as MSG (Michael Schenker), Viva (Barbara Schenker) and Scorpions (Rudolf
Schenker. Another big band from Germany was Accept. Do you know them ?
I once played Stefan Kauffmann's drums (after they sound checked in the afternoon).

I certainly have a lot of fond memories of the '80s HM....

PS : I still haven't figured out how to type an Umlaut under Outlook, so I can type Motorhead
properly...
No Sleep till Hammersmith !!!!! :-) :-)
-----Original Message-----
From: m...@yahoogroups.com [mailto:m...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Onestone
Sent: Monday, 30 June 2008 2:48 AM
To: m...@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: OT:Re: [msp430] Re: What's a suitable battery?

Oh yes and the Motorhead name came from a Hawkwind track of the same name.

Al

microbit wrote:

>>it's actually quite funny to hear 'Ode to Joy' immediately after 'Ace of
>>Spades'.
>>
>>Is that Motorhead's 'Ace Of Spades" ? :-)
------------------------------------



(You need to be a member of msp430 -- send a blank email to msp430-subscribe@yahoogroups.com )

Hi kris. I drifted back to hawkwind a few years ago, tracing their
albums and re-acquiring many lost ones. I left Germany in early 1969.
probably one of the biggest bands of my era from western Europe was
Frijid Pink. I saw a lot of imports during the 70's, mainly through the
Germany TV show Rockpalast, and some of the concerts they ran/spawned.
(Rockpalast was one of the best Rock shows ever on TV, well on a par
with the BBC's Old Grey Whistle test. If I couldn't get to a show I'd
lay in case of Warsteiner and a couple of bottles of asbach, kick back,
watch the show on TV and lisen on the radio in FM Stereo, one of the
first shows to do this kind of simulcast in Europe.

Lemmy is a hell of guy, ludicrously funny. he didn't get on too well
with Dave Brock, the self appointed leader of Hawkwind who styled
himself as some kind of hippy space poet I guess. Michael Moorcock, the
renowned Sci-fantasy writer and heroin addict wrote the odd tune for
them, and occasionally appeared on stage. Some of their stuff is really
weird, some so much heavy metal it makes all but the best sabbath seem
mild, and some of it was amazingly orchestral in its depth. they were
fairly unique in their use of electronics. One key instrument on many
tracks, believ it or not was a stylophone. they also sued theremins
afair bit I believe. One thing I really liked about them was that they
rarely ever did a song the same way twice. A great example of this is a
track called Spirit of the age. The old country music tale of life gone
wrong, you know boy meets girl, boy goes into space, girl is underage,
boy takes cloned android, android two times boy, typical country stuff.
It's both great musically and hilarious lyrically.

Al

microbit wrote:

>>Oh yes and the Motorhead name came from a Hawkwind track of the same name.
>>
>>Interesting Al. Lemmy is quite a nice guy too actually, met him once when we were part of the bill
>on an all day festival. (Motorhead didn't play, but they came to the (open air) venue).
>I'm really surprised you know of this band, cool. I met a teenager on the street recently with a
>MH T-shirt and he told me that indeed MH is still going strong... Wow...
>
>Our final singer in the band (ex- Stainless Steel) was the brother of the lead guitar player in
>Ostrogoth, Belgium's biggest HM band, so we knew a lot of people of the HM scene...
>At one time Ozzy Osbourne came to Belgium to Forest National (Brussels). We were supposed to get
>the support gig for Ozzy, but it went to another band called 'Acid' (also from the same town where
>I grew up). Would have been great to brag that we supported OO but it didn't happen :-(
>
>If you were into the 70s/80s HM scene in Germany (or know of it) - ie. the main part being the
>Schenker family such as MSG (Michael Schenker), Viva (Barbara Schenker) and Scorpions (Rudolf
>Schenker. Another big band from Germany was Accept. Do you know them ?
>I once played Stefan Kauffmann's drums (after they sound checked in the afternoon).
>
>I certainly have a lot of fond memories of the '80s HM....
>
>PS : I still haven't figured out how to type an Umlaut under Outlook, so I can type Motorhead
>properly...
>No Sleep till Hammersmith !!!!! :-) :-)
>-----Original Message-----
>From: m...@yahoogroups.com [mailto:m...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Onestone
>Sent: Monday, 30 June 2008 2:48 AM
>To: m...@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: Re: OT:Re: [msp430] Re: What's a suitable battery?
>
>Oh yes and the Motorhead name came from a Hawkwind track of the same name.
>
>Al
>
>microbit wrote:
>
>
>
>>>it's actually quite funny to hear 'Ode to Joy' immediately after 'Ace of
>>>Spades'.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>Is that Motorhead's 'Ace Of Spades" ? :-)
>>
>>
>------------------------------------



(You need to be a member of msp430 -- send a blank email to msp430-subscribe@yahoogroups.com )

Boy, too many memories to know where to start.. :-)
My highlight of the era of '70s for me in German TV really would had to have been
'Spiele Ohne Grenzen'.... Boy, I loved that show !
(Mind you, the Oberbayern feesten were cool too, we celebrated those in Nth Belgium too,
get out the mammoth beer mugs!!! )

Wrt. the Old Grey Whistle test, that's when I _finally_ saw a band I loved (and still do) :
New Musik. '79 - '80 period. They were a few years ahead of their time. I heard recently Tony
Mansfield was going to do a come back, dunno what happened there.
I chased for 8 years to get their album 'From A to B' on CD. Then finally it got printed in
Canada... (ok, that was "New Wave", but I still listen a lot today to New Musik)
It's one of those real gem UK bands that never really made it as big as they should have. Another
one for the Golden Vault :-)

B rgds
Kris

-----Original Message-----
From: m...@yahoogroups.com [mailto:m...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Onestone
Sent: Monday, 30 June 2008 3:28 AM
To: m...@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: OT:Re: [msp430] Re: What's a suitable battery?

Hi kris. I drifted back to hawkwind a few years ago, tracing their
albums and re-acquiring many lost ones. I left Germany in early 1969.
probably one of the biggest bands of my era from western Europe was
Frijid Pink. I saw a lot of imports during the 70's, mainly through the
Germany TV show Rockpalast, and some of the concerts they ran/spawned.
(Rockpalast was one of the best Rock shows ever on TV, well on a par
with the BBC's Old Grey Whistle test. If I couldn't get to a show I'd
lay in case of Warsteiner and a couple of bottles of asbach, kick back,
watch the show on TV and lisen on the radio in FM Stereo, one of the
first shows to do this kind of simulcast in Europe.

Lemmy is a hell of guy, ludicrously funny. he didn't get on too well
with Dave Brock, the self appointed leader of Hawkwind who styled
himself as some kind of hippy space poet I guess. Michael Moorcock, the
renowned Sci-fantasy writer and heroin addict wrote the odd tune for
them, and occasionally appeared on stage. Some of their stuff is really
weird, some so much heavy metal it makes all but the best sabbath seem
mild, and some of it was amazingly orchestral in its depth. they were
fairly unique in their use of electronics. One key instrument on many
tracks, believ it or not was a stylophone. they also sued theremins
afair bit I believe. One thing I really liked about them was that they
rarely ever did a song the same way twice. A great example of this is a
track called Spirit of the age. The old country music tale of life gone
wrong, you know boy meets girl, boy goes into space, girl is underage,
boy takes cloned android, android two times boy, typical country stuff.
It's both great musically and hilarious lyrically.

Al
------------------------------------



(You need to be a member of msp430 -- send a blank email to msp430-subscribe@yahoogroups.com )

On Mon, 30 Jun 2008 03:10:55 +1000, Kris wrote:

>PS : I still haven't figured out how to type an Umlaut under Outlook, so I=
can type Motorhead
>properly...

Hi, Kris. I've tried (and feel comfortable with) "Allchars" for doing
that. It's on sourceforge, now, and is freeware. To get an umlaut u,
as in f=FCr, I just tapped the CTRL key once and let it up, then typed "
and then typed u. So the CTRL key, if pressed and released, becomes
the signal for the program to listen to you for more. If you can live
with that, it's an okay program. It also has a pop-up for you when
you don't remember what to type -- CTRL h h. So if you can just keep
that one in mind you can find the rest.

I used to keep a font table handy on my desktop and would copy out
characters from it when I needed them.

Jon

------------------------------------



(You need to be a member of msp430 -- send a blank email to msp430-subscribe@yahoogroups.com )

Ha ! Thanks Jon, I'll try that out. I did try with the extra languages inst=
alled on my 'language
bar' (on the Task bar), but the keyboard layout changes, and well.. I've ne=
ver dug any further.
That's on the menu for tomorrow.

Best regards,
Kris
-----Original Message-----
From: m...@yahoogroups.com [mailto:m...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of J=
on Kirwan
Sent: Monday, 30 June 2008 5:03 AM
To: MSP430 list
Subject: Re: OT:Re: [msp430] Re: What's a suitable battery?

On Mon, 30 Jun 2008 03:10:55 +1000, Kris wrote:

>PS : I still haven't figured out how to type an Umlaut under Outlook, so I=
can type Motorhead
>properly...

Hi, Kris. I've tried (and feel comfortable with) "Allchars" for doing
that. It's on sourceforge, now, and is freeware. To get an umlaut u,
as in f=FCr, I just tapped the CTRL key once and let it up, then typed "
and then typed u. So the CTRL key, if pressed and released, becomes
the signal for the program to listen to you for more. If you can live
with that, it's an okay program. It also has a pop-up for you when
you don't remember what to type -- CTRL h h. So if you can just keep
that one in mind you can find the rest.

I used to keep a font table handy on my desktop and would copy out
characters from it when I needed them.

Jon

------------------------------------



(You need to be a member of msp430 -- send a blank email to msp430-subscribe@yahoogroups.com )