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Discussion Groups | MSP430 | Introduction and Queries
The purpose of this group is to foster exchange of information on the Texas Instruments MSP430 family of microcontrollers and related tools. Everyone welcome, all levels of familiarity/expertise.
Introduction and Queries - solarquark - Aug 3 10:52:32 2009
Hi All.
My name is Mike and I, too, am a tech nut.
I' sure there is a 12-point program that you can help me with, but until then...
I am new to the group but have been loitering here a little while.
I know very little about the MSP430 but am most anxious to learn.
I used to read books about subject matters of interest to me (C/C++, VB, and so on) but discovered that when I tried to complete a project that there was some vital piece of information that had been omitted from the book(s) concerned.
So now I create 'realistic' projects - preferably something that can be extended or built upon - and keep at it until that project has been completed. I find this to be a far more successful means of learning for me.
And so I am formulating a project that I hope will teach me a lot about the uCs in general and the MSP430 family in particular.
I wish to create a data logger.
Let us say that this data logger will measure ambient temperature as a minimum and perhaps more later.
The data acquired will be transferred to a PC via a wireless link.
Seems like a simple spec, doesn't it :) (you can probably tell that the madness set in a long time ago - I am assured that I was relatively normal until I, figuratively speaking, met Kernigan and Ritchie)
The CC430f6137 seems like the ideal part for the job.
It will also allow me to extend myself later investigating such things
as LCDs and SPI and so on.
Knowing nothing at all about wireless - I have the greatest difficulty seting up the video recorder - SimpliciTI would seem to be the place to start.
I have some queries, and please forgive my ignorance.
1. SimpliciTI
Is it possible, by that I mean without having to invent something new
- to setup a wireless link from a CC430f6137 to a Windows PC?
In other words are there Windows APIs/DLLs that allow comms between these?
2. MSP430 family
As far as I can determine there is no pin-event counter feature on these units. By that I mean that signals into a particular pin cannot be counted except by use of the CPU and code. Is this a correct interpretation of the docs?
3. DMA
As far as I can tell there is no DMA capability between memory and SPI? Would this interpretation be correct?
Again please forgive my almost total ignornace at this point.
This is a condition I intend to correct.
Take care all.
Mike
------------------------------------
(You need to be a member of msp430 -- send a blank email to msp430-subscribe@yahoogroups.com )
My name is Mike and I, too, am a tech nut.
I' sure there is a 12-point program that you can help me with, but until then...
I am new to the group but have been loitering here a little while.
I know very little about the MSP430 but am most anxious to learn.
I used to read books about subject matters of interest to me (C/C++, VB, and so on) but discovered that when I tried to complete a project that there was some vital piece of information that had been omitted from the book(s) concerned.
So now I create 'realistic' projects - preferably something that can be extended or built upon - and keep at it until that project has been completed. I find this to be a far more successful means of learning for me.
And so I am formulating a project that I hope will teach me a lot about the uCs in general and the MSP430 family in particular.
I wish to create a data logger.
Let us say that this data logger will measure ambient temperature as a minimum and perhaps more later.
The data acquired will be transferred to a PC via a wireless link.
Seems like a simple spec, doesn't it :) (you can probably tell that the madness set in a long time ago - I am assured that I was relatively normal until I, figuratively speaking, met Kernigan and Ritchie)
The CC430f6137 seems like the ideal part for the job.
It will also allow me to extend myself later investigating such things
as LCDs and SPI and so on.
Knowing nothing at all about wireless - I have the greatest difficulty seting up the video recorder - SimpliciTI would seem to be the place to start.
I have some queries, and please forgive my ignorance.
1. SimpliciTI
Is it possible, by that I mean without having to invent something new
- to setup a wireless link from a CC430f6137 to a Windows PC?
In other words are there Windows APIs/DLLs that allow comms between these?
2. MSP430 family
As far as I can determine there is no pin-event counter feature on these units. By that I mean that signals into a particular pin cannot be counted except by use of the CPU and code. Is this a correct interpretation of the docs?
3. DMA
As far as I can tell there is no DMA capability between memory and SPI? Would this interpretation be correct?
Again please forgive my almost total ignornace at this point.
This is a condition I intend to correct.
Take care all.
Mike
------------------------------------
(You need to be a member of msp430 -- send a blank email to msp430-subscribe@yahoogroups.com )
Re: Introduction and Queries - OneStone - Aug 3 11:25:21 2009
Hi Mike. Your brain has been polluted by having come to
micro-controllers by way of programming languages such as C. Better to
have come to them via hardware, from which direction they appear
simpler, and more rational. C is a language of abstraction.
Micro-controllers deal with hard facts and the real world, and hence
can't truly be divorced from them.
A few personal observations, with the caveat that, although I have been
in this industry for almost 40 years, and have been using C for most of
them I am not a fan of C, or high level languages in general, on
micro-controllers.
I think a better place to start would be with the EZ430-2500 kit. It is
simpler, and I believe easier to understand.
Although I love the fact that finally there is an RF transceiver/micro
combination that does NOT have an 8051 core, I'm not a fan of the
CC1101. Too many bugs still, and far more complex than it needs to be to
handle. I believe it should have been more tightly integrated into the
micro than it was. This was a lazy job. The fact that it doesn't include
USB also shows how poorly thought through their product chain has
become, since the 5529 does have USB but no RF.
1. You can set up a small network with 2 EZ430-2500 kits modify the code
and learn some useful stuff, then add your own sensors as you go. I
think TI have the PC codes for these, and they are available. I roll my own.
2. Almost any micro can implement a pin event counter, look for clock
type inputs in the data sheets, then study the user guide to find out
how to configure them.
3. DMA can use any RAM (just about) as source or destination, including
registers associated with peripherals like the UARTs and SPI. How much
you really gain from using it for SPI is dubious in my opinion, since it
is not a truly independent CPU, ie it still consumes clock cycles.
Cheers
Al
solarquark wrote:
> Hi All.
>
> My name is Mike and I, too, am a tech nut.
> I' sure there is a 12-point program that you can help me with, but until then...
>
> I am new to the group but have been loitering here a little while.
> I know very little about the MSP430 but am most anxious to learn.
>
> I used to read books about subject matters of interest to me (C/C++, VB, and so on) but discovered that when I tried to complete a project that there was some vital piece of information that had been omitted from the book(s) concerned.
>
> So now I create 'realistic' projects - preferably something that can be extended or built upon - and keep at it until that project has been completed. I find this to be a far more successful means of learning for me.
>
> And so I am formulating a project that I hope will teach me a lot about the uCs in general and the MSP430 family in particular.
>
> I wish to create a data logger.
> Let us say that this data logger will measure ambient temperature as a minimum and perhaps more later.
> The data acquired will be transferred to a PC via a wireless link.
>
> Seems like a simple spec, doesn't it :) (you can probably tell that the madness set in a long time ago - I am assured that I was relatively normal until I, figuratively speaking, met Kernigan and Ritchie)
>
> The CC430f6137 seems like the ideal part for the job.
> It will also allow me to extend myself later investigating such things
> as LCDs and SPI and so on.
>
> Knowing nothing at all about wireless - I have the greatest difficulty seting up the video recorder - SimpliciTI would seem to be the place to start.
>
> I have some queries, and please forgive my ignorance.
> 1. SimpliciTI
> Is it possible, by that I mean without having to invent something new
> - to setup a wireless link from a CC430f6137 to a Windows PC?
> In other words are there Windows APIs/DLLs that allow comms between these?
> 2. MSP430 family
> As far as I can determine there is no pin-event counter feature on these units. By that I mean that signals into a particular pin cannot be counted except by use of the CPU and code. Is this a correct interpretation of the docs?
> 3. DMA
> As far as I can tell there is no DMA capability between memory and SPI? Would this interpretation be correct?
>
> Again please forgive my almost total ignornace at this point.
> This is a condition I intend to correct.
>
> Take care all.
>
> Mike
>
> ------------------------------------
(You need to be a member of msp430 -- send a blank email to msp430-subscribe@yahoogroups.com )
micro-controllers by way of programming languages such as C. Better to
have come to them via hardware, from which direction they appear
simpler, and more rational. C is a language of abstraction.
Micro-controllers deal with hard facts and the real world, and hence
can't truly be divorced from them.
A few personal observations, with the caveat that, although I have been
in this industry for almost 40 years, and have been using C for most of
them I am not a fan of C, or high level languages in general, on
micro-controllers.
I think a better place to start would be with the EZ430-2500 kit. It is
simpler, and I believe easier to understand.
Although I love the fact that finally there is an RF transceiver/micro
combination that does NOT have an 8051 core, I'm not a fan of the
CC1101. Too many bugs still, and far more complex than it needs to be to
handle. I believe it should have been more tightly integrated into the
micro than it was. This was a lazy job. The fact that it doesn't include
USB also shows how poorly thought through their product chain has
become, since the 5529 does have USB but no RF.
1. You can set up a small network with 2 EZ430-2500 kits modify the code
and learn some useful stuff, then add your own sensors as you go. I
think TI have the PC codes for these, and they are available. I roll my own.
2. Almost any micro can implement a pin event counter, look for clock
type inputs in the data sheets, then study the user guide to find out
how to configure them.
3. DMA can use any RAM (just about) as source or destination, including
registers associated with peripherals like the UARTs and SPI. How much
you really gain from using it for SPI is dubious in my opinion, since it
is not a truly independent CPU, ie it still consumes clock cycles.
Cheers
Al
solarquark wrote:
> Hi All.
>
> My name is Mike and I, too, am a tech nut.
> I' sure there is a 12-point program that you can help me with, but until then...
>
> I am new to the group but have been loitering here a little while.
> I know very little about the MSP430 but am most anxious to learn.
>
> I used to read books about subject matters of interest to me (C/C++, VB, and so on) but discovered that when I tried to complete a project that there was some vital piece of information that had been omitted from the book(s) concerned.
>
> So now I create 'realistic' projects - preferably something that can be extended or built upon - and keep at it until that project has been completed. I find this to be a far more successful means of learning for me.
>
> And so I am formulating a project that I hope will teach me a lot about the uCs in general and the MSP430 family in particular.
>
> I wish to create a data logger.
> Let us say that this data logger will measure ambient temperature as a minimum and perhaps more later.
> The data acquired will be transferred to a PC via a wireless link.
>
> Seems like a simple spec, doesn't it :) (you can probably tell that the madness set in a long time ago - I am assured that I was relatively normal until I, figuratively speaking, met Kernigan and Ritchie)
>
> The CC430f6137 seems like the ideal part for the job.
> It will also allow me to extend myself later investigating such things
> as LCDs and SPI and so on.
>
> Knowing nothing at all about wireless - I have the greatest difficulty seting up the video recorder - SimpliciTI would seem to be the place to start.
>
> I have some queries, and please forgive my ignorance.
> 1. SimpliciTI
> Is it possible, by that I mean without having to invent something new
> - to setup a wireless link from a CC430f6137 to a Windows PC?
> In other words are there Windows APIs/DLLs that allow comms between these?
> 2. MSP430 family
> As far as I can determine there is no pin-event counter feature on these units. By that I mean that signals into a particular pin cannot be counted except by use of the CPU and code. Is this a correct interpretation of the docs?
> 3. DMA
> As far as I can tell there is no DMA capability between memory and SPI? Would this interpretation be correct?
>
> Again please forgive my almost total ignornace at this point.
> This is a condition I intend to correct.
>
> Take care all.
>
> Mike
>
> ------------------------------------
(You need to be a member of msp430 -- send a blank email to msp430-subscribe@yahoogroups.com )
Re: Introduction and Queries - Michael Malone - Aug 3 12:49:50 2009
Hi Al.
Can I call you Al?
Actually I suppose it was the other way around.=20
I came to programming languages via the uC.
I still remember _way_ back when men were men and sheep were frightened.
Back then the 8080 and the 6800 were just having children (not together AFA=
IK - that would have produced interesting offspring).
I got to play a little with the 8085 and the 6502 (a Rockwell variant of th=
e 6802 IIRC).
I still remember that 31 c2 20 was the machine code to initialise the stack=
at 0x20c2 on the 8085.
Ah, those were the days!
Time passes.=20
A lot of time has passed, perhaps far too much since then.
Electronics was my first love and it is past time I repaid her a visit.
I have taken a quick look at the ez430-2500.=20
It looks nice too.=20
It uses the MSP430f2274.=20
This part is somewhat limited in capability compared to the MSP430f6137.
This doesn't matter much now but might limit my learning later on.
Ah, decisions, decisions!=20
You refer to certain problems with the CC430f6137.=20
Are these problems related solely to the wireless side - the CC1101?
Are TI working to resolve these problems or will the product remain substan=
tially as is?
In other words, if I wait a while would the CC4306137 then become a more vi=
able option?
When you say TI have the 'PC code', do you mean that there are APIs availab=
le to allow a Windows front-end to be developed or do you mean that there i=
s code for the PC development of the end device, i.e. using a PC based deve=
lopment platform to create code for the end device?
The MSP family user guide makes a lot of the low power modes and that integ=
rated devices such as ADCs and DMA can operate independent of the CPU and w=
hen the device is in a low power mode.
So, for instance, the ADC can operate independently of the CPU and when it =
had completed a conversion it can cause an interrupt and=A0wake-up the CPU.=
After the CPU has finished it will re-enter the low power mode. However th=
ere doesn't seem to be a similar capability to count events at a pin. Perha=
ps I missed something?
Also I see that the DMA can handle a transfer to the IIC interface. And the=
IIC interface can request new data from the DMA controller when it require=
s it. As I understood, or mis-understood, it all this can happen with the d=
evice in a low power mode. There is no mention of such a capability with th=
e SPI interface. Again perhaps I missed something?
Thanks for your reply, Al.=20
This gives me a lot to mull over.
Take care.
Mike
________________________________
From: OneStone
To: m...@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, August 3, 2009 4:23:35 PM
Subject: Re: [msp430] Introduction and Queries
=A0=20
Hi Mike. Your brain has been polluted by having come to=20
micro-controllers by way of programming languages such as C. Better to=20
have come to them via hardware, from which direction they appear=20
simpler, and more rational. C is a language of abstraction.=20
Micro-controllers deal with hard facts and the real world, and hence=20
can't truly be divorced from them.
A few personal observations, with the caveat that, although I have been=20
in this industry for almost 40 years, and have been using C for most of=20
them I am not a fan of C, or high level languages in general, on=20
micro-controllers.
I think a better place to start would be with the EZ430-2500 kit. It is=20
simpler, and I believe easier to understand.
Although I love the fact that finally there is an RF transceiver/ micro=20
combination that does NOT have an 8051 core, I'm not a fan of the=20
CC1101. Too many bugs still, and far more complex than it needs to be to=20
handle. I believe it should have been more tightly integrated into the=20
micro than it was. This was a lazy job. The fact that it doesn't include=20
USB also shows how poorly thought through their product chain has=20
become, since the 5529 does have USB but no RF.
1. You can set up a small network with 2 EZ430-2500 kits modify the code=20
and learn some useful stuff, then add your own sensors as you go. I=20
think TI have the PC codes for these, and they are available. I roll my own=
.
2. Almost any micro can implement a pin event counter, look for clock=20
type inputs in the data sheets, then study the user guide to find out=20
how to configure them.
3. DMA can use any RAM (just about) as source or destination, including=20
registers associated with peripherals like the UARTs and SPI. How much=20
you really gain from using it for SPI is dubious in my opinion, since it=20
is not a truly independent CPU, ie it still consumes clock cycles.
Cheers
Al
solarquark wrote:
> Hi All.
>=20
> My name is Mike and I, too, am a tech nut.
> I' sure there is a 12-point program that you can help me with, but until =
then...
>=20
> I am new to the group but have been loitering here a little while.
> I know very little about the MSP430 but am most anxious to learn.
>=20
> I used to read books about subject matters of interest to me (C/C++, VB, =
and so on) but discovered that when I tried to complete a project that ther=
e was some vital piece of information that had been omitted from the book(s=
) concerned.
>=20
> So now I create 'realistic' projects - preferably something that can be e=
xtended or built upon - and keep at it until that project has been complete=
d. I find this to be a far more successful means of learning for me.
>=20
> And so I am formulating a project that I hope will teach me a lot about t=
he uCs in general and the MSP430 family in particular.
>=20
> I wish to create a data logger.
> Let us say that this data logger will measure ambient temperature as a mi=
nimum and perhaps more later.
> The data acquired will be transferred to a PC via a wireless link.
>=20
> Seems like a simple spec, doesn't it :) (you can probably tell that the m=
adness set in a long time ago - I am assured that I was relatively normal u=
ntil I, figuratively speaking, met Kernigan and Ritchie)
>=20
> The CC430f6137 seems like the ideal part for the job.
> It will also allow me to extend myself later investigating such things
> as LCDs and SPI and so on.
>=20
> Knowing nothing at all about wireless - I have the greatest difficulty se=
ting up the video recorder - SimpliciTI would seem to be the place to start=
.
>=20
> I have some queries, and please forgive my ignorance.
> 1. SimpliciTI
> Is it possible, by that I mean without having to invent something new
> - to setup a wireless link from a CC430f6137 to a Windows PC?
> In other words are there Windows APIs/DLLs that allow comms between these=
?
> 2. MSP430 family
> As far as I can determine there is no pin-event counter feature on these =
units. By that I mean that signals into a particular pin cannot be counted =
except by use of the CPU and code. Is this a correct interpretation of the =
docs?=20
> 3. DMA
> As far as I can tell there is no DMA capability between memory and SPI? W=
ould this interpretation be correct?
>=20
> Again please forgive my almost total ignornace at this point.
> This is a condition I intend to correct.
>=20
> Take care all.
>=20
> Mike
>=20
>=20
>=20
> ------------ --------- --------- ------
>=20
>
>=20
>
______________________________
controlSUITE™ software. Comprehensive. Intuitive. Optimized.
Real-world software for real-time control. Details Here!
(You need to be a member of msp430 -- send a blank email to msp430-subscribe@yahoogroups.com )
Can I call you Al?
Actually I suppose it was the other way around.=20
I came to programming languages via the uC.
I still remember _way_ back when men were men and sheep were frightened.
Back then the 8080 and the 6800 were just having children (not together AFA=
IK - that would have produced interesting offspring).
I got to play a little with the 8085 and the 6502 (a Rockwell variant of th=
e 6802 IIRC).
I still remember that 31 c2 20 was the machine code to initialise the stack=
at 0x20c2 on the 8085.
Ah, those were the days!
Time passes.=20
A lot of time has passed, perhaps far too much since then.
Electronics was my first love and it is past time I repaid her a visit.
I have taken a quick look at the ez430-2500.=20
It looks nice too.=20
It uses the MSP430f2274.=20
This part is somewhat limited in capability compared to the MSP430f6137.
This doesn't matter much now but might limit my learning later on.
Ah, decisions, decisions!=20
You refer to certain problems with the CC430f6137.=20
Are these problems related solely to the wireless side - the CC1101?
Are TI working to resolve these problems or will the product remain substan=
tially as is?
In other words, if I wait a while would the CC4306137 then become a more vi=
able option?
When you say TI have the 'PC code', do you mean that there are APIs availab=
le to allow a Windows front-end to be developed or do you mean that there i=
s code for the PC development of the end device, i.e. using a PC based deve=
lopment platform to create code for the end device?
The MSP family user guide makes a lot of the low power modes and that integ=
rated devices such as ADCs and DMA can operate independent of the CPU and w=
hen the device is in a low power mode.
So, for instance, the ADC can operate independently of the CPU and when it =
had completed a conversion it can cause an interrupt and=A0wake-up the CPU.=
After the CPU has finished it will re-enter the low power mode. However th=
ere doesn't seem to be a similar capability to count events at a pin. Perha=
ps I missed something?
Also I see that the DMA can handle a transfer to the IIC interface. And the=
IIC interface can request new data from the DMA controller when it require=
s it. As I understood, or mis-understood, it all this can happen with the d=
evice in a low power mode. There is no mention of such a capability with th=
e SPI interface. Again perhaps I missed something?
Thanks for your reply, Al.=20
This gives me a lot to mull over.
Take care.
Mike
________________________________
From: OneStone
To: m...@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, August 3, 2009 4:23:35 PM
Subject: Re: [msp430] Introduction and Queries
=A0=20
Hi Mike. Your brain has been polluted by having come to=20
micro-controllers by way of programming languages such as C. Better to=20
have come to them via hardware, from which direction they appear=20
simpler, and more rational. C is a language of abstraction.=20
Micro-controllers deal with hard facts and the real world, and hence=20
can't truly be divorced from them.
A few personal observations, with the caveat that, although I have been=20
in this industry for almost 40 years, and have been using C for most of=20
them I am not a fan of C, or high level languages in general, on=20
micro-controllers.
I think a better place to start would be with the EZ430-2500 kit. It is=20
simpler, and I believe easier to understand.
Although I love the fact that finally there is an RF transceiver/ micro=20
combination that does NOT have an 8051 core, I'm not a fan of the=20
CC1101. Too many bugs still, and far more complex than it needs to be to=20
handle. I believe it should have been more tightly integrated into the=20
micro than it was. This was a lazy job. The fact that it doesn't include=20
USB also shows how poorly thought through their product chain has=20
become, since the 5529 does have USB but no RF.
1. You can set up a small network with 2 EZ430-2500 kits modify the code=20
and learn some useful stuff, then add your own sensors as you go. I=20
think TI have the PC codes for these, and they are available. I roll my own=
.
2. Almost any micro can implement a pin event counter, look for clock=20
type inputs in the data sheets, then study the user guide to find out=20
how to configure them.
3. DMA can use any RAM (just about) as source or destination, including=20
registers associated with peripherals like the UARTs and SPI. How much=20
you really gain from using it for SPI is dubious in my opinion, since it=20
is not a truly independent CPU, ie it still consumes clock cycles.
Cheers
Al
solarquark wrote:
> Hi All.
>=20
> My name is Mike and I, too, am a tech nut.
> I' sure there is a 12-point program that you can help me with, but until =
then...
>=20
> I am new to the group but have been loitering here a little while.
> I know very little about the MSP430 but am most anxious to learn.
>=20
> I used to read books about subject matters of interest to me (C/C++, VB, =
and so on) but discovered that when I tried to complete a project that ther=
e was some vital piece of information that had been omitted from the book(s=
) concerned.
>=20
> So now I create 'realistic' projects - preferably something that can be e=
xtended or built upon - and keep at it until that project has been complete=
d. I find this to be a far more successful means of learning for me.
>=20
> And so I am formulating a project that I hope will teach me a lot about t=
he uCs in general and the MSP430 family in particular.
>=20
> I wish to create a data logger.
> Let us say that this data logger will measure ambient temperature as a mi=
nimum and perhaps more later.
> The data acquired will be transferred to a PC via a wireless link.
>=20
> Seems like a simple spec, doesn't it :) (you can probably tell that the m=
adness set in a long time ago - I am assured that I was relatively normal u=
ntil I, figuratively speaking, met Kernigan and Ritchie)
>=20
> The CC430f6137 seems like the ideal part for the job.
> It will also allow me to extend myself later investigating such things
> as LCDs and SPI and so on.
>=20
> Knowing nothing at all about wireless - I have the greatest difficulty se=
ting up the video recorder - SimpliciTI would seem to be the place to start=
.
>=20
> I have some queries, and please forgive my ignorance.
> 1. SimpliciTI
> Is it possible, by that I mean without having to invent something new
> - to setup a wireless link from a CC430f6137 to a Windows PC?
> In other words are there Windows APIs/DLLs that allow comms between these=
?
> 2. MSP430 family
> As far as I can determine there is no pin-event counter feature on these =
units. By that I mean that signals into a particular pin cannot be counted =
except by use of the CPU and code. Is this a correct interpretation of the =
docs?=20
> 3. DMA
> As far as I can tell there is no DMA capability between memory and SPI? W=
ould this interpretation be correct?
>=20
> Again please forgive my almost total ignornace at this point.
> This is a condition I intend to correct.
>=20
> Take care all.
>=20
> Mike
>=20
>=20
>=20
> ------------ --------- --------- ------
>=20
>
>=20
>
______________________________
controlSUITE™ software. Comprehensive. Intuitive. Optimized.
Real-world software for real-time control. Details Here!
(You need to be a member of msp430 -- send a blank email to msp430-subscribe@yahoogroups.com )
Re: Introduction and Queries - OneStone - Aug 3 14:09:23 2009
Hi Mike, you're more than welcome to call me Al, as the song goes, many
people here call me far worse! Ah, so you're a newbie :@}, well so am I
compared to opa joerg and OCY, I just started jung (sorry, psycho joke).
OK, That's good, a lot of guys jump into micros from the PC world, not a
bad thing of course, anybody who has a go is good thing, but it is a
very different world as you will know.
I worked with the very first versions of the Cc1100. the CC1101 is an
upgrade, but unfortunately they really only improved ona few issues
related to FCC regs, not many of the control related issues. It is a bit
of a pain to program, and, in my view too cumbersome. If you look at the
errata sheet for the CC1101 you will see what I mean. Basic things like
the status (MARCSTATE) register cannot be relied on, and there is not in
my opinion a satisfactory workaround. this wasn't fixed according to the
CC1101 errata when I last looked, so has probably crawled over into the
CC430. Also you ask about PC AI's and DLL's. Ti are very slow to get off
the mark with support for their newest stuff, normally. this device
family has been trumpeted loudly for some time, but I can't see much in
the way of a dev kit or even application notes for it. I have no doubt
that these will come, and when they do they will be great if you want to
stick to basic stuff. But I've found that if you want tyo do something
even remotely off the beaten track you are on your own.
When the CC1100 was new I couldn't even get an answer from Ti on the
best way to match the antenna for use in differential mode. It strikes
me as odd that most of these single chip transceivers have a
differential output yet all the reference designs have matching circuits
for a single ended antenna.
In the end I went away from the Ti Rf stuff.
So will Ti correct the bugs? Probably not. Are they a huge problem? For
those who have gotten used to them no, for those who are doing mostly
mundane stuff, probably not, for those pushing the envelope a little,
yes, they might be.
Will TI correct all the errata in ther 6137? Likely not, since the 149
and a lot of earlier parts still have many bugs that are 10 years old,
and many newer parts have inherited these. Again this isn't a problem if
you are aware of them, and there is probably not a single device of any
complexity out there that doesn't have some bugs buried inside it.
personally I still think the MSP430 is one of the best micros on the
market. I haven't found a need to go to another family yet. there was an
argument sometime ago about whether it was worth using if the
application didin't require low power consumption. My personal response
is that EVERY application should be made to consume as little power as
possible, but that's another pulpit to preach from! Suffice to say were
the PC world to adopt efficient coding techniques and effcient energy
managemtn design it would be the same as taking 30 million cars off the
road in terms of the environmental impact, but even Al gore doesn't get it!
Don't think the 2274 is in any way limited. I have a data logger that
includes the following:-
RF transceiver
temp sensor
pressure sensor
humidity sensor
GPS
3D accelerometer
3D mag field sensor
3D gyro
16M external memory
LEDs
optical sensors
remote reprogramming
UART for hardware mission upload/download if required
and an optional 64k colour LCD
it has plenty of spare memory and spare pins
At the other extreme I have a wireless data logger that measures 11.4mm
square which uses an mSP430F2131 and the CC1100 it has a range of at
least 130mtr indoors using a simple 0.8mm copper wire loop antenna
folded back over the PCB, and includes a motion sensor, optical sensor,
LEDs, and a TACT switch. There is a picture of this in my piccies folder
on the group site if you're interested
http://d.yimg.com/kq/groups/2342629/sn/1133855661/name/n_a
Currently I am using the Nordic nRF24L01P for some designs, as I like
the level of automation and the 6 receive channel addresses. There is
absolutely minimal CPU overhead. It adds a lot of flexibility. It also
has good range considering its a 2.4Ghz low power device, with a high
data rate, and not quite as good sensitivity as some devices. It can
also operate with a fairly poor quality crystal, surprisingly enough,
although I don't chance that! Although a bit bulkier than the circuit
for the Nordic, and not quite as flexible, or as automated as the Nordic
stuff the Microchip MRF24J40MA/B is also a very nice part, and I have
tested it's LOS range to up to 400mtr, although its bulk means I'm
currently not using it in any designs. Finally I also source some
semi-custom parts from Asia, that pack the entire circuit into a smaller
area than the Nordic IC, which itself is only 4x4mm., so it may be worth
hunting around there before you commit.
Cheers for now
Al
Michael Malone wrote:
> Hi Al.
>
> Can I call you Al?
>
> Actually I suppose it was the other way around. I came to programming
> languages via the uC. I still remember _way_ back when men were men
> and sheep were frightened. Back then the 8080 and the 6800 were just
> having children (not together AFAIK - that would have produced
> interesting offspring). I got to play a little with the 8085 and the
> 6502 (a Rockwell variant of the 6802 IIRC). I still remember that 31
> c2 20 was the machine code to initialise the stack at 0x20c2 on the
> 8085. Ah, those were the days!
>
> Time passes. A lot of time has passed, perhaps far too much since
> then. Electronics was my first love and it is past time I repaid her
> a visit.
>
> I have taken a quick look at the ez430-2500. It looks nice too. It
> uses the MSP430f2274. This part is somewhat limited in capability
> compared to the MSP430f6137. This doesn't matter much now but might
> limit my learning later on. Ah, decisions, decisions! You refer to
> certain problems with the CC430f6137. Are these problems related
> solely to the wireless side - the CC1101? Are TI working to resolve
> these problems or will the product remain substantially as is? In
> other words, if I wait a while would the CC4306137 then become a more
> viable option?
>
> When you say TI have the 'PC code', do you mean that there are APIs
> available to allow a Windows front-end to be developed or do you mean
> that there is code for the PC development of the end device, i.e.
> using a PC based development platform to create code for the end
> device?
>
> The MSP family user guide makes a lot of the low power modes and that
> integrated devices such as ADCs and DMA can operate independent of
> the CPU and when the device is in a low power mode. So, for instance,
> the ADC can operate independently of the CPU and when it had
> completed a conversion it can cause an interrupt and wake-up the CPU.
> After the CPU has finished it will re-enter the low power mode.
> However there doesn't seem to be a similar capability to count events
> at a pin. Perhaps I missed something?
>
> Also I see that the DMA can handle a transfer to the IIC interface.
> And the IIC interface can request new data from the DMA controller
> when it requires it. As I understood, or mis-understood, it all this
> can happen with the device in a low power mode. There is no mention
> of such a capability with the SPI interface. Again perhaps I missed
> something?
>
> Thanks for your reply, Al. This gives me a lot to mull over.
>
> Take care.
>
> Mike
>
> ________________________________ From: OneStone
> To: m...@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday,
> August 3, 2009 4:23:35 PM Subject: Re: [msp430] Introduction and
> Queries
> Hi Mike. Your brain has been polluted by having come to
> micro-controllers by way of programming languages such as C. Better
> to have come to them via hardware, from which direction they appear
> simpler, and more rational. C is a language of abstraction.
> Micro-controllers deal with hard facts and the real world, and hence
> can't truly be divorced from them.
>
> A few personal observations, with the caveat that, although I have
> been in this industry for almost 40 years, and have been using C for
> most of them I am not a fan of C, or high level languages in general,
> on micro-controllers.
>
> I think a better place to start would be with the EZ430-2500 kit. It
> is simpler, and I believe easier to understand.
>
> Although I love the fact that finally there is an RF transceiver/
> micro combination that does NOT have an 8051 core, I'm not a fan of
> the CC1101. Too many bugs still, and far more complex than it needs
> to be to handle. I believe it should have been more tightly
> integrated into the micro than it was. This was a lazy job. The fact
> that it doesn't include USB also shows how poorly thought through
> their product chain has become, since the 5529 does have USB but no
> RF.
>
> 1. You can set up a small network with 2 EZ430-2500 kits modify the
> code and learn some useful stuff, then add your own sensors as you
> go. I think TI have the PC codes for these, and they are available. I
> roll my own.
>
> 2. Almost any micro can implement a pin event counter, look for clock
> type inputs in the data sheets, then study the user guide to find
> out how to configure them.
>
> 3. DMA can use any RAM (just about) as source or destination,
> including registers associated with peripherals like the UARTs and
> SPI. How much you really gain from using it for SPI is dubious in my
> opinion, since it is not a truly independent CPU, ie it still
> consumes clock cycles.
>
> Cheers
>
> Al
>
> solarquark wrote:
>> Hi All.
>>
>> My name is Mike and I, too, am a tech nut. I' sure there is a
>> 12-point program that you can help me with, but until then...
>>
>> I am new to the group but have been loitering here a little while.
>> I know very little about the MSP430 but am most anxious to learn.
>>
>> I used to read books about subject matters of interest to me
>> (C/C++, VB, and so on) but discovered that when I tried to complete
>> a project that there was some vital piece of information that had
>> been omitted from the book(s) concerned.
>>
>> So now I create 'realistic' projects - preferably something that
>> can be extended or built upon - and keep at it until that project
>> has been completed. I find this to be a far more successful means
>> of learning for me.
>>
>> And so I am formulating a project that I hope will teach me a lot
>> about the uCs in general and the MSP430 family in particular.
>>
>> I wish to create a data logger. Let us say that this data logger
>> will measure ambient temperature as a minimum and perhaps more
>> later. The data acquired will be transferred to a PC via a wireless
>> link.
>>
>> Seems like a simple spec, doesn't it :) (you can probably tell that
>> the madness set in a long time ago - I am assured that I was
>> relatively normal until I, figuratively speaking, met Kernigan and
>> Ritchie)
>>
>> The CC430f6137 seems like the ideal part for the job. It will also
>> allow me to extend myself later investigating such things as LCDs
>> and SPI and so on.
>>
>> Knowing nothing at all about wireless - I have the greatest
>> difficulty seting up the video recorder - SimpliciTI would seem to
>> be the place to start.
>>
>> I have some queries, and please forgive my ignorance. 1. SimpliciTI
>> Is it possible, by that I mean without having to invent something
>> new - to setup a wireless link from a CC430f6137 to a Windows PC?
>> In other words are there Windows APIs/DLLs that allow comms between
>> these? 2. MSP430 family As far as I can determine there is no
>> pin-event counter feature on these units. By that I mean that
>> signals into a particular pin cannot be counted except by use of
>> the CPU and code. Is this a correct interpretation of the docs? 3.
>> DMA As far as I can tell there is no DMA capability between memory
>> and SPI? Would this interpretation be correct?
>>
>> Again please forgive my almost total ignornace at this point. This
>> is a condition I intend to correct.
>>
>> Take care all.
>>
>> Mike
>>
>> ------------ --------- --------- ------
(You need to be a member of msp430 -- send a blank email to msp430-subscribe@yahoogroups.com )
people here call me far worse! Ah, so you're a newbie :@}, well so am I
compared to opa joerg and OCY, I just started jung (sorry, psycho joke).
OK, That's good, a lot of guys jump into micros from the PC world, not a
bad thing of course, anybody who has a go is good thing, but it is a
very different world as you will know.
I worked with the very first versions of the Cc1100. the CC1101 is an
upgrade, but unfortunately they really only improved ona few issues
related to FCC regs, not many of the control related issues. It is a bit
of a pain to program, and, in my view too cumbersome. If you look at the
errata sheet for the CC1101 you will see what I mean. Basic things like
the status (MARCSTATE) register cannot be relied on, and there is not in
my opinion a satisfactory workaround. this wasn't fixed according to the
CC1101 errata when I last looked, so has probably crawled over into the
CC430. Also you ask about PC AI's and DLL's. Ti are very slow to get off
the mark with support for their newest stuff, normally. this device
family has been trumpeted loudly for some time, but I can't see much in
the way of a dev kit or even application notes for it. I have no doubt
that these will come, and when they do they will be great if you want to
stick to basic stuff. But I've found that if you want tyo do something
even remotely off the beaten track you are on your own.
When the CC1100 was new I couldn't even get an answer from Ti on the
best way to match the antenna for use in differential mode. It strikes
me as odd that most of these single chip transceivers have a
differential output yet all the reference designs have matching circuits
for a single ended antenna.
In the end I went away from the Ti Rf stuff.
So will Ti correct the bugs? Probably not. Are they a huge problem? For
those who have gotten used to them no, for those who are doing mostly
mundane stuff, probably not, for those pushing the envelope a little,
yes, they might be.
Will TI correct all the errata in ther 6137? Likely not, since the 149
and a lot of earlier parts still have many bugs that are 10 years old,
and many newer parts have inherited these. Again this isn't a problem if
you are aware of them, and there is probably not a single device of any
complexity out there that doesn't have some bugs buried inside it.
personally I still think the MSP430 is one of the best micros on the
market. I haven't found a need to go to another family yet. there was an
argument sometime ago about whether it was worth using if the
application didin't require low power consumption. My personal response
is that EVERY application should be made to consume as little power as
possible, but that's another pulpit to preach from! Suffice to say were
the PC world to adopt efficient coding techniques and effcient energy
managemtn design it would be the same as taking 30 million cars off the
road in terms of the environmental impact, but even Al gore doesn't get it!
Don't think the 2274 is in any way limited. I have a data logger that
includes the following:-
RF transceiver
temp sensor
pressure sensor
humidity sensor
GPS
3D accelerometer
3D mag field sensor
3D gyro
16M external memory
LEDs
optical sensors
remote reprogramming
UART for hardware mission upload/download if required
and an optional 64k colour LCD
it has plenty of spare memory and spare pins
At the other extreme I have a wireless data logger that measures 11.4mm
square which uses an mSP430F2131 and the CC1100 it has a range of at
least 130mtr indoors using a simple 0.8mm copper wire loop antenna
folded back over the PCB, and includes a motion sensor, optical sensor,
LEDs, and a TACT switch. There is a picture of this in my piccies folder
on the group site if you're interested
http://d.yimg.com/kq/groups/2342629/sn/1133855661/name/n_a
Currently I am using the Nordic nRF24L01P for some designs, as I like
the level of automation and the 6 receive channel addresses. There is
absolutely minimal CPU overhead. It adds a lot of flexibility. It also
has good range considering its a 2.4Ghz low power device, with a high
data rate, and not quite as good sensitivity as some devices. It can
also operate with a fairly poor quality crystal, surprisingly enough,
although I don't chance that! Although a bit bulkier than the circuit
for the Nordic, and not quite as flexible, or as automated as the Nordic
stuff the Microchip MRF24J40MA/B is also a very nice part, and I have
tested it's LOS range to up to 400mtr, although its bulk means I'm
currently not using it in any designs. Finally I also source some
semi-custom parts from Asia, that pack the entire circuit into a smaller
area than the Nordic IC, which itself is only 4x4mm., so it may be worth
hunting around there before you commit.
Cheers for now
Al
Michael Malone wrote:
> Hi Al.
>
> Can I call you Al?
>
> Actually I suppose it was the other way around. I came to programming
> languages via the uC. I still remember _way_ back when men were men
> and sheep were frightened. Back then the 8080 and the 6800 were just
> having children (not together AFAIK - that would have produced
> interesting offspring). I got to play a little with the 8085 and the
> 6502 (a Rockwell variant of the 6802 IIRC). I still remember that 31
> c2 20 was the machine code to initialise the stack at 0x20c2 on the
> 8085. Ah, those were the days!
>
> Time passes. A lot of time has passed, perhaps far too much since
> then. Electronics was my first love and it is past time I repaid her
> a visit.
>
> I have taken a quick look at the ez430-2500. It looks nice too. It
> uses the MSP430f2274. This part is somewhat limited in capability
> compared to the MSP430f6137. This doesn't matter much now but might
> limit my learning later on. Ah, decisions, decisions! You refer to
> certain problems with the CC430f6137. Are these problems related
> solely to the wireless side - the CC1101? Are TI working to resolve
> these problems or will the product remain substantially as is? In
> other words, if I wait a while would the CC4306137 then become a more
> viable option?
>
> When you say TI have the 'PC code', do you mean that there are APIs
> available to allow a Windows front-end to be developed or do you mean
> that there is code for the PC development of the end device, i.e.
> using a PC based development platform to create code for the end
> device?
>
> The MSP family user guide makes a lot of the low power modes and that
> integrated devices such as ADCs and DMA can operate independent of
> the CPU and when the device is in a low power mode. So, for instance,
> the ADC can operate independently of the CPU and when it had
> completed a conversion it can cause an interrupt and wake-up the CPU.
> After the CPU has finished it will re-enter the low power mode.
> However there doesn't seem to be a similar capability to count events
> at a pin. Perhaps I missed something?
>
> Also I see that the DMA can handle a transfer to the IIC interface.
> And the IIC interface can request new data from the DMA controller
> when it requires it. As I understood, or mis-understood, it all this
> can happen with the device in a low power mode. There is no mention
> of such a capability with the SPI interface. Again perhaps I missed
> something?
>
> Thanks for your reply, Al. This gives me a lot to mull over.
>
> Take care.
>
> Mike
>
> ________________________________ From: OneStone
>
> August 3, 2009 4:23:35 PM Subject: Re: [msp430] Introduction and
> Queries
> Hi Mike. Your brain has been polluted by having come to
> micro-controllers by way of programming languages such as C. Better
> to have come to them via hardware, from which direction they appear
> simpler, and more rational. C is a language of abstraction.
> Micro-controllers deal with hard facts and the real world, and hence
> can't truly be divorced from them.
>
> A few personal observations, with the caveat that, although I have
> been in this industry for almost 40 years, and have been using C for
> most of them I am not a fan of C, or high level languages in general,
> on micro-controllers.
>
> I think a better place to start would be with the EZ430-2500 kit. It
> is simpler, and I believe easier to understand.
>
> Although I love the fact that finally there is an RF transceiver/
> micro combination that does NOT have an 8051 core, I'm not a fan of
> the CC1101. Too many bugs still, and far more complex than it needs
> to be to handle. I believe it should have been more tightly
> integrated into the micro than it was. This was a lazy job. The fact
> that it doesn't include USB also shows how poorly thought through
> their product chain has become, since the 5529 does have USB but no
> RF.
>
> 1. You can set up a small network with 2 EZ430-2500 kits modify the
> code and learn some useful stuff, then add your own sensors as you
> go. I think TI have the PC codes for these, and they are available. I
> roll my own.
>
> 2. Almost any micro can implement a pin event counter, look for clock
> type inputs in the data sheets, then study the user guide to find
> out how to configure them.
>
> 3. DMA can use any RAM (just about) as source or destination,
> including registers associated with peripherals like the UARTs and
> SPI. How much you really gain from using it for SPI is dubious in my
> opinion, since it is not a truly independent CPU, ie it still
> consumes clock cycles.
>
> Cheers
>
> Al
>
> solarquark wrote:
>> Hi All.
>>
>> My name is Mike and I, too, am a tech nut. I' sure there is a
>> 12-point program that you can help me with, but until then...
>>
>> I am new to the group but have been loitering here a little while.
>> I know very little about the MSP430 but am most anxious to learn.
>>
>> I used to read books about subject matters of interest to me
>> (C/C++, VB, and so on) but discovered that when I tried to complete
>> a project that there was some vital piece of information that had
>> been omitted from the book(s) concerned.
>>
>> So now I create 'realistic' projects - preferably something that
>> can be extended or built upon - and keep at it until that project
>> has been completed. I find this to be a far more successful means
>> of learning for me.
>>
>> And so I am formulating a project that I hope will teach me a lot
>> about the uCs in general and the MSP430 family in particular.
>>
>> I wish to create a data logger. Let us say that this data logger
>> will measure ambient temperature as a minimum and perhaps more
>> later. The data acquired will be transferred to a PC via a wireless
>> link.
>>
>> Seems like a simple spec, doesn't it :) (you can probably tell that
>> the madness set in a long time ago - I am assured that I was
>> relatively normal until I, figuratively speaking, met Kernigan and
>> Ritchie)
>>
>> The CC430f6137 seems like the ideal part for the job. It will also
>> allow me to extend myself later investigating such things as LCDs
>> and SPI and so on.
>>
>> Knowing nothing at all about wireless - I have the greatest
>> difficulty seting up the video recorder - SimpliciTI would seem to
>> be the place to start.
>>
>> I have some queries, and please forgive my ignorance. 1. SimpliciTI
>> Is it possible, by that I mean without having to invent something
>> new - to setup a wireless link from a CC430f6137 to a Windows PC?
>> In other words are there Windows APIs/DLLs that allow comms between
>> these? 2. MSP430 family As far as I can determine there is no
>> pin-event counter feature on these units. By that I mean that
>> signals into a particular pin cannot be counted except by use of
>> the CPU and code. Is this a correct interpretation of the docs? 3.
>> DMA As far as I can tell there is no DMA capability between memory
>> and SPI? Would this interpretation be correct?
>>
>> Again please forgive my almost total ignornace at this point. This
>> is a condition I intend to correct.
>>
>> Take care all.
>>
>> Mike
>>
>> ------------ --------- --------- ------
(You need to be a member of msp430 -- send a blank email to msp430-subscribe@yahoogroups.com )
Re: Introduction and Queries - Michael Malone - Aug 3 16:38:10 2009
Thank you Al.
You have given me quite a=A0bit (intended)=A0to consider.
I think I'll have to put myself into LPM4 or 5 for a=A0while (intended).
Take care.
Mike
________________________________
From: OneStone
To: m...@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, August 3, 2009 7:07:49 PM
Subject: Re: [msp430] Introduction and Queries
=A0=20
Hi Mike, you're more than welcome to call me Al, as the song goes, many
people here call me far worse! Ah, so you're a newbie :@}, well so am I
compared to opa joerg and OCY, I just started jung (sorry, psycho joke).
OK, That's good, a lot of guys jump into micros from the PC world, not a
bad thing of course, anybody who has a go is good thing, but it is a
very different world as you will know.
I worked with the very first versions of the Cc1100. the CC1101 is an
upgrade, but unfortunately they really only improved ona few issues
related to FCC regs, not many of the control related issues. It is a bit
of a pain to program, and, in my view too cumbersome. If you look at the
errata sheet for the CC1101 you will see what I mean. Basic things like
the status (MARCSTATE) register cannot be relied on, and there is not in
my opinion a satisfactory workaround. this wasn't fixed according to the
CC1101 errata when I last looked, so has probably crawled over into the
CC430. Also you ask about PC AI's and DLL's. Ti are very slow to get off
the mark with support for their newest stuff, normally. this device
family has been trumpeted loudly for some time, but I can't see much in
the way of a dev kit or even application notes for it. I have no doubt
that these will come, and when they do they will be great if you want to
stick to basic stuff. But I've found that if you want tyo do something
even remotely off the beaten track you are on your own.
When the CC1100 was new I couldn't even get an answer from Ti on the
best way to match the antenna for use in differential mode. It strikes
me as odd that most of these single chip transceivers have a
differential output yet all the reference designs have matching circuits
for a single ended antenna.
In the end I went away from the Ti Rf stuff.
So will Ti correct the bugs? Probably not. Are they a huge problem? For=20
those who have gotten used to them no, for those who are doing mostly=20
mundane stuff, probably not, for those pushing the envelope a little,=20
yes, they might be.
Will TI correct all the errata in ther 6137? Likely not, since the 149=20
and a lot of earlier parts still have many bugs that are 10 years old,=20
and many newer parts have inherited these. Again this isn't a problem if=20
you are aware of them, and there is probably not a single device of any=20
complexity out there that doesn't have some bugs buried inside it.=20
personally I still think the MSP430 is one of the best micros on the=20
market. I haven't found a need to go to another family yet. there was an=20
argument sometime ago about whether it was worth using if the=20
application didin't require low power consumption. My personal response=20
is that EVERY application should be made to consume as little power as=20
possible, but that's another pulpit to preach from! Suffice to say were=20
the PC world to adopt efficient coding techniques and effcient energy=20
managemtn design it would be the same as taking 30 million cars off the=20
road in terms of the environmental impact, but even Al gore doesn't get it!
Don't think the 2274 is in any way limited. I have a data logger that
includes the following:-
RF transceiver
temp sensor
pressure sensor
humidity sensor
GPS
3D accelerometer
3D mag field sensor
3D gyro
16M external memory
LEDs
optical sensors
remote reprogramming
UART for hardware mission upload/download if required
and an optional 64k colour LCD
it has plenty of spare memory and spare pins
At the other extreme I have a wireless data logger that measures 11.4mm
square which uses an mSP430F2131 and the CC1100 it has a range of at
least 130mtr indoors using a simple 0.8mm copper wire loop antenna
folded back over the PCB, and includes a motion sensor, optical sensor,
LEDs, and a TACT switch. There is a picture of this in my piccies folder
on the group site if you're interested
http://d.yimg. com/kq/groups/ 2342629/sn/ 1133855661/ name/n_a
Currently I am using the Nordic nRF24L01P for some designs, as I like
the level of automation and the 6 receive channel addresses. There is
absolutely minimal CPU overhead. It adds a lot of flexibility. It also
has good range considering its a 2.4Ghz low power device, with a high
data rate, and not quite as good sensitivity as some devices. It can
also operate with a fairly poor quality crystal, surprisingly enough,
although I don't chance that! Although a bit bulkier than the circuit
for the Nordic, and not quite as flexible, or as automated as the Nordic
stuff the Microchip MRF24J40MA/B is also a very nice part, and I have
tested it's LOS range to up to 400mtr, although its bulk means I'm
currently not using it in any designs. Finally I also source some
semi-custom parts from Asia, that pack the entire circuit into a smaller
area than the Nordic IC, which itself is only 4x4mm., so it may be worth=20
hunting around there before you commit.
Cheers for now
Al
Michael Malone wrote:
> Hi Al.
>=20
> Can I call you Al?
>=20
> Actually I suppose it was the other way around. I came to programming
> languages via the uC. I still remember _way_ back when men were men
> and sheep were frightened. Back then the 8080 and the 6800 were just
> having children (not together AFAIK - that would have produced
> interesting offspring). I got to play a little with the 8085 and the
> 6502 (a Rockwell variant of the 6802 IIRC). I still remember that 31
> c2 20 was the machine code to initialise the stack at 0x20c2 on the
> 8085. Ah, those were the days!
>=20
> Time passes. A lot of time has passed, perhaps far too much since
> then. Electronics was my first love and it is past time I repaid her
> a visit.
>=20
> I have taken a quick look at the ez430-2500. It looks nice too. It
> uses the MSP430f2274. This part is somewhat limited in capability
> compared to the MSP430f6137. This doesn't matter much now but might
> limit my learning later on. Ah, decisions, decisions! You refer to
> certain problems with the CC430f6137. Are these problems related
> solely to the wireless side - the CC1101? Are TI working to resolve
> these problems or will the product remain substantially as is? In
> other words, if I wait a while would the CC4306137 then become a more
> viable option?
>=20
> When you say TI have the 'PC code', do you mean that there are APIs
> available to allow a Windows front-end to be developed or do you mean
> that there is code for the PC development of the end device, i.e.
> using a PC based development platform to create code for the end
> device?
>=20
> The MSP family user guide makes a lot of the low power modes and that
> integrated devices such as ADCs and DMA can operate independent of
> the CPU and when the device is in a low power mode. So, for instance,
> the ADC can operate independently of the CPU and when it had
> completed a conversion it can cause an interrupt and wake-up the CPU.
> After the CPU has finished it will re-enter the low power mode.
> However there doesn't seem to be a similar capability to count events
> at a pin. Perhaps I missed something?
>=20
> Also I see that the DMA can handle a transfer to the IIC interface.
> And the IIC interface can request new data from the DMA controller
> when it requires it. As I understood, or mis-understood, it all this
> can happen with the device in a low power mode. There is no mention
> of such a capability with the SPI interface. Again perhaps I missed
> something?
>=20
> Thanks for your reply, Al. This gives me a lot to mull over.
>=20
> Take care.
>=20
> Mike
>=20
>=20
>=20
> ____________ _________ _________ __ From: OneStone
> To: msp430@yahoogroups. com Sent: Monday,
> August 3, 2009 4:23:35 PM Subject: Re: [msp430] Introduction and
> Queries
>=20
>=20
> Hi Mike. Your brain has been polluted by having come to=20
> micro-controllers by way of programming languages such as C. Better
> to have come to them via hardware, from which direction they appear=20
> simpler, and more rational. C is a language of abstraction.=20
> Micro-controllers deal with hard facts and the real world, and hence
> can't truly be divorced from them.
>=20
> A few personal observations, with the caveat that, although I have
> been in this industry for almost 40 years, and have been using C for
> most of them I am not a fan of C, or high level languages in general,
> on micro-controllers.
>=20
> I think a better place to start would be with the EZ430-2500 kit. It
> is simpler, and I believe easier to understand.
>=20
> Although I love the fact that finally there is an RF transceiver/
> micro combination that does NOT have an 8051 core, I'm not a fan of
> the CC1101. Too many bugs still, and far more complex than it needs
> to be to handle. I believe it should have been more tightly
> integrated into the micro than it was. This was a lazy job. The fact
> that it doesn't include USB also shows how poorly thought through
> their product chain has become, since the 5529 does have USB but no
> RF.
>=20
> 1. You can set up a small network with 2 EZ430-2500 kits modify the
> code and learn some useful stuff, then add your own sensors as you
> go. I think TI have the PC codes for these, and they are available. I
> roll my own.
>=20
> 2. Almost any micro can implement a pin event counter, look for clock
> type inputs in the data sheets, then study the user guide to find
> out how to configure them.
>=20
> 3. DMA can use any RAM (just about) as source or destination,
> including registers associated with peripherals like the UARTs and
> SPI. How much you really gain from using it for SPI is dubious in my
> opinion, since it is not a truly independent CPU, ie it still
> consumes clock cycles.
>=20
> Cheers
>=20
> Al
>=20
> solarquark wrote:
>> Hi All.
>>=20
>> My name is Mike and I, too, am a tech nut. I' sure there is a
>> 12-point program that you can help me with, but until then...
>>=20
>> I am new to the group but have been loitering here a little while.=20
>> I know very little about the MSP430 but am most anxious to learn.
>>=20
>> I used to read books about subject matters of interest to me
>> (C/C++, VB, and so on) but discovered that when I tried to complete
>> a project that there was some vital piece of information that had
>> been omitted from the book(s) concerned.
>>=20
>> So now I create 'realistic' projects - preferably something that
>> can be extended or built upon - and keep at it until that project
>> has been completed. I find this to be a far more successful means
>> of learning for me.
>>=20
>> And so I am formulating a project that I hope will teach me a lot
>> about the uCs in general and the MSP430 family in particular.
>>=20
>> I wish to create a data logger. Let us say that this data logger
>> will measure ambient temperature as a minimum and perhaps more
>> later. The data acquired will be transferred to a PC via a wireless
>> link.
>>=20
>> Seems like a simple spec, doesn't it :) (you can probably tell that
>> the madness set in a long time ago - I am assured that I was
>> relatively normal until I, figuratively speaking, met Kernigan and
>> Ritchie)
>>=20
>> The CC430f6137 seems like the ideal part for the job. It will also
>> allow me to extend myself later investigating such things as LCDs
>> and SPI and so on.
>>=20
>> Knowing nothing at all about wireless - I have the greatest
>> difficulty seting up the video recorder - SimpliciTI would seem to
>> be the place to start.
>>=20
>> I have some queries, and please forgive my ignorance. 1. SimpliciTI
>> Is it possible, by that I mean without having to invent something
>> new - to setup a wireless link from a CC430f6137 to a Windows PC?=20
>> In other words are there Windows APIs/DLLs that allow comms between
>> these? 2. MSP430 family As far as I can determine there is no
>> pin-event counter feature on these units. By that I mean that
>> signals into a particular pin cannot be counted except by use of
>> the CPU and code. Is this a correct interpretation of the docs? 3.
>> DMA As far as I can tell there is no DMA capability between memory
>> and SPI? Would this interpretation be correct?
>>=20
>> Again please forgive my almost total ignornace at this point. This
>> is a condition I intend to correct.
>>=20
>> Take care all.
>>=20
>> Mike
>>=20
>>=20
>>=20
>> ------------ --------- --------- ------
>>=20
>>
>>=20
>>
______________________________
controlSUITE™ software. Comprehensive. Intuitive. Optimized.
Real-world software for real-time control. Details Here!
(You need to be a member of msp430 -- send a blank email to msp430-subscribe@yahoogroups.com )
You have given me quite a=A0bit (intended)=A0to consider.
I think I'll have to put myself into LPM4 or 5 for a=A0while (intended).
Take care.
Mike
________________________________
From: OneStone
To: m...@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, August 3, 2009 7:07:49 PM
Subject: Re: [msp430] Introduction and Queries
=A0=20
Hi Mike, you're more than welcome to call me Al, as the song goes, many
people here call me far worse! Ah, so you're a newbie :@}, well so am I
compared to opa joerg and OCY, I just started jung (sorry, psycho joke).
OK, That's good, a lot of guys jump into micros from the PC world, not a
bad thing of course, anybody who has a go is good thing, but it is a
very different world as you will know.
I worked with the very first versions of the Cc1100. the CC1101 is an
upgrade, but unfortunately they really only improved ona few issues
related to FCC regs, not many of the control related issues. It is a bit
of a pain to program, and, in my view too cumbersome. If you look at the
errata sheet for the CC1101 you will see what I mean. Basic things like
the status (MARCSTATE) register cannot be relied on, and there is not in
my opinion a satisfactory workaround. this wasn't fixed according to the
CC1101 errata when I last looked, so has probably crawled over into the
CC430. Also you ask about PC AI's and DLL's. Ti are very slow to get off
the mark with support for their newest stuff, normally. this device
family has been trumpeted loudly for some time, but I can't see much in
the way of a dev kit or even application notes for it. I have no doubt
that these will come, and when they do they will be great if you want to
stick to basic stuff. But I've found that if you want tyo do something
even remotely off the beaten track you are on your own.
When the CC1100 was new I couldn't even get an answer from Ti on the
best way to match the antenna for use in differential mode. It strikes
me as odd that most of these single chip transceivers have a
differential output yet all the reference designs have matching circuits
for a single ended antenna.
In the end I went away from the Ti Rf stuff.
So will Ti correct the bugs? Probably not. Are they a huge problem? For=20
those who have gotten used to them no, for those who are doing mostly=20
mundane stuff, probably not, for those pushing the envelope a little,=20
yes, they might be.
Will TI correct all the errata in ther 6137? Likely not, since the 149=20
and a lot of earlier parts still have many bugs that are 10 years old,=20
and many newer parts have inherited these. Again this isn't a problem if=20
you are aware of them, and there is probably not a single device of any=20
complexity out there that doesn't have some bugs buried inside it.=20
personally I still think the MSP430 is one of the best micros on the=20
market. I haven't found a need to go to another family yet. there was an=20
argument sometime ago about whether it was worth using if the=20
application didin't require low power consumption. My personal response=20
is that EVERY application should be made to consume as little power as=20
possible, but that's another pulpit to preach from! Suffice to say were=20
the PC world to adopt efficient coding techniques and effcient energy=20
managemtn design it would be the same as taking 30 million cars off the=20
road in terms of the environmental impact, but even Al gore doesn't get it!
Don't think the 2274 is in any way limited. I have a data logger that
includes the following:-
RF transceiver
temp sensor
pressure sensor
humidity sensor
GPS
3D accelerometer
3D mag field sensor
3D gyro
16M external memory
LEDs
optical sensors
remote reprogramming
UART for hardware mission upload/download if required
and an optional 64k colour LCD
it has plenty of spare memory and spare pins
At the other extreme I have a wireless data logger that measures 11.4mm
square which uses an mSP430F2131 and the CC1100 it has a range of at
least 130mtr indoors using a simple 0.8mm copper wire loop antenna
folded back over the PCB, and includes a motion sensor, optical sensor,
LEDs, and a TACT switch. There is a picture of this in my piccies folder
on the group site if you're interested
http://d.yimg. com/kq/groups/ 2342629/sn/ 1133855661/ name/n_a
Currently I am using the Nordic nRF24L01P for some designs, as I like
the level of automation and the 6 receive channel addresses. There is
absolutely minimal CPU overhead. It adds a lot of flexibility. It also
has good range considering its a 2.4Ghz low power device, with a high
data rate, and not quite as good sensitivity as some devices. It can
also operate with a fairly poor quality crystal, surprisingly enough,
although I don't chance that! Although a bit bulkier than the circuit
for the Nordic, and not quite as flexible, or as automated as the Nordic
stuff the Microchip MRF24J40MA/B is also a very nice part, and I have
tested it's LOS range to up to 400mtr, although its bulk means I'm
currently not using it in any designs. Finally I also source some
semi-custom parts from Asia, that pack the entire circuit into a smaller
area than the Nordic IC, which itself is only 4x4mm., so it may be worth=20
hunting around there before you commit.
Cheers for now
Al
Michael Malone wrote:
> Hi Al.
>=20
> Can I call you Al?
>=20
> Actually I suppose it was the other way around. I came to programming
> languages via the uC. I still remember _way_ back when men were men
> and sheep were frightened. Back then the 8080 and the 6800 were just
> having children (not together AFAIK - that would have produced
> interesting offspring). I got to play a little with the 8085 and the
> 6502 (a Rockwell variant of the 6802 IIRC). I still remember that 31
> c2 20 was the machine code to initialise the stack at 0x20c2 on the
> 8085. Ah, those were the days!
>=20
> Time passes. A lot of time has passed, perhaps far too much since
> then. Electronics was my first love and it is past time I repaid her
> a visit.
>=20
> I have taken a quick look at the ez430-2500. It looks nice too. It
> uses the MSP430f2274. This part is somewhat limited in capability
> compared to the MSP430f6137. This doesn't matter much now but might
> limit my learning later on. Ah, decisions, decisions! You refer to
> certain problems with the CC430f6137. Are these problems related
> solely to the wireless side - the CC1101? Are TI working to resolve
> these problems or will the product remain substantially as is? In
> other words, if I wait a while would the CC4306137 then become a more
> viable option?
>=20
> When you say TI have the 'PC code', do you mean that there are APIs
> available to allow a Windows front-end to be developed or do you mean
> that there is code for the PC development of the end device, i.e.
> using a PC based development platform to create code for the end
> device?
>=20
> The MSP family user guide makes a lot of the low power modes and that
> integrated devices such as ADCs and DMA can operate independent of
> the CPU and when the device is in a low power mode. So, for instance,
> the ADC can operate independently of the CPU and when it had
> completed a conversion it can cause an interrupt and wake-up the CPU.
> After the CPU has finished it will re-enter the low power mode.
> However there doesn't seem to be a similar capability to count events
> at a pin. Perhaps I missed something?
>=20
> Also I see that the DMA can handle a transfer to the IIC interface.
> And the IIC interface can request new data from the DMA controller
> when it requires it. As I understood, or mis-understood, it all this
> can happen with the device in a low power mode. There is no mention
> of such a capability with the SPI interface. Again perhaps I missed
> something?
>=20
> Thanks for your reply, Al. This gives me a lot to mull over.
>=20
> Take care.
>=20
> Mike
>=20
>=20
>=20
> ____________ _________ _________ __ From: OneStone
>
> August 3, 2009 4:23:35 PM Subject: Re: [msp430] Introduction and
> Queries
>=20
>=20
> Hi Mike. Your brain has been polluted by having come to=20
> micro-controllers by way of programming languages such as C. Better
> to have come to them via hardware, from which direction they appear=20
> simpler, and more rational. C is a language of abstraction.=20
> Micro-controllers deal with hard facts and the real world, and hence
> can't truly be divorced from them.
>=20
> A few personal observations, with the caveat that, although I have
> been in this industry for almost 40 years, and have been using C for
> most of them I am not a fan of C, or high level languages in general,
> on micro-controllers.
>=20
> I think a better place to start would be with the EZ430-2500 kit. It
> is simpler, and I believe easier to understand.
>=20
> Although I love the fact that finally there is an RF transceiver/
> micro combination that does NOT have an 8051 core, I'm not a fan of
> the CC1101. Too many bugs still, and far more complex than it needs
> to be to handle. I believe it should have been more tightly
> integrated into the micro than it was. This was a lazy job. The fact
> that it doesn't include USB also shows how poorly thought through
> their product chain has become, since the 5529 does have USB but no
> RF.
>=20
> 1. You can set up a small network with 2 EZ430-2500 kits modify the
> code and learn some useful stuff, then add your own sensors as you
> go. I think TI have the PC codes for these, and they are available. I
> roll my own.
>=20
> 2. Almost any micro can implement a pin event counter, look for clock
> type inputs in the data sheets, then study the user guide to find
> out how to configure them.
>=20
> 3. DMA can use any RAM (just about) as source or destination,
> including registers associated with peripherals like the UARTs and
> SPI. How much you really gain from using it for SPI is dubious in my
> opinion, since it is not a truly independent CPU, ie it still
> consumes clock cycles.
>=20
> Cheers
>=20
> Al
>=20
> solarquark wrote:
>> Hi All.
>>=20
>> My name is Mike and I, too, am a tech nut. I' sure there is a
>> 12-point program that you can help me with, but until then...
>>=20
>> I am new to the group but have been loitering here a little while.=20
>> I know very little about the MSP430 but am most anxious to learn.
>>=20
>> I used to read books about subject matters of interest to me
>> (C/C++, VB, and so on) but discovered that when I tried to complete
>> a project that there was some vital piece of information that had
>> been omitted from the book(s) concerned.
>>=20
>> So now I create 'realistic' projects - preferably something that
>> can be extended or built upon - and keep at it until that project
>> has been completed. I find this to be a far more successful means
>> of learning for me.
>>=20
>> And so I am formulating a project that I hope will teach me a lot
>> about the uCs in general and the MSP430 family in particular.
>>=20
>> I wish to create a data logger. Let us say that this data logger
>> will measure ambient temperature as a minimum and perhaps more
>> later. The data acquired will be transferred to a PC via a wireless
>> link.
>>=20
>> Seems like a simple spec, doesn't it :) (you can probably tell that
>> the madness set in a long time ago - I am assured that I was
>> relatively normal until I, figuratively speaking, met Kernigan and
>> Ritchie)
>>=20
>> The CC430f6137 seems like the ideal part for the job. It will also
>> allow me to extend myself later investigating such things as LCDs
>> and SPI and so on.
>>=20
>> Knowing nothing at all about wireless - I have the greatest
>> difficulty seting up the video recorder - SimpliciTI would seem to
>> be the place to start.
>>=20
>> I have some queries, and please forgive my ignorance. 1. SimpliciTI
>> Is it possible, by that I mean without having to invent something
>> new - to setup a wireless link from a CC430f6137 to a Windows PC?=20
>> In other words are there Windows APIs/DLLs that allow comms between
>> these? 2. MSP430 family As far as I can determine there is no
>> pin-event counter feature on these units. By that I mean that
>> signals into a particular pin cannot be counted except by use of
>> the CPU and code. Is this a correct interpretation of the docs? 3.
>> DMA As far as I can tell there is no DMA capability between memory
>> and SPI? Would this interpretation be correct?
>>=20
>> Again please forgive my almost total ignornace at this point. This
>> is a condition I intend to correct.
>>=20
>> Take care all.
>>=20
>> Mike
>>=20
>>=20
>>=20
>> ------------ --------- --------- ------
>>=20
>>
>>=20
>>
______________________________
controlSUITE™ software. Comprehensive. Intuitive. Optimized.
Real-world software for real-time control. Details Here!
(You need to be a member of msp430 -- send a blank email to msp430-subscribe@yahoogroups.com )
Re: Introduction and Queries - Michael Malone - Aug 3 16:45:58 2009
Wow!.
http://d.yimg.com/kq/groups/2342629/sn/1133855661/name/n_a
That's small.
Mike
________________________________
From: OneStone
To: m...@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, August 3, 2009 7:07:49 PM
Subject: Re: [msp430] Introduction and Queries
=A0=20
Hi Mike, you're more than welcome to call me Al, as the song goes, many
people here call me far worse! Ah, so you're a newbie :@}, well so am I
compared to opa joerg and OCY, I just started jung (sorry, psycho joke).
OK, That's good, a lot of guys jump into micros from the PC world, not a
bad thing of course, anybody who has a go is good thing, but it is a
very different world as you will know.
I worked with the very first versions of the Cc1100. the CC1101 is an
upgrade, but unfortunately they really only improved ona few issues
related to FCC regs, not many of the control related issues. It is a bit
of a pain to program, and, in my view too cumbersome. If you look at the
errata sheet for the CC1101 you will see what I mean. Basic things like
the status (MARCSTATE) register cannot be relied on, and there is not in
my opinion a satisfactory workaround. this wasn't fixed according to the
CC1101 errata when I last looked, so has probably crawled over into the
CC430. Also you ask about PC AI's and DLL's. Ti are very slow to get off
the mark with support for their newest stuff, normally. this device
family has been trumpeted loudly for some time, but I can't see much in
the way of a dev kit or even application notes for it. I have no doubt
that these will come, and when they do they will be great if you want to
stick to basic stuff. But I've found that if you want tyo do something
even remotely off the beaten track you are on your own.
When the CC1100 was new I couldn't even get an answer from Ti on the
best way to match the antenna for use in differential mode. It strikes
me as odd that most of these single chip transceivers have a
differential output yet all the reference designs have matching circuits
for a single ended antenna.
In the end I went away from the Ti Rf stuff.
So will Ti correct the bugs? Probably not. Are they a huge problem? For=20
those who have gotten used to them no, for those who are doing mostly=20
mundane stuff, probably not, for those pushing the envelope a little,=20
yes, they might be.
Will TI correct all the errata in ther 6137? Likely not, since the 149=20
and a lot of earlier parts still have many bugs that are 10 years old,=20
and many newer parts have inherited these. Again this isn't a problem if=20
you are aware of them, and there is probably not a single device of any=20
complexity out there that doesn't have some bugs buried inside it.=20
personally I still think the MSP430 is one of the best micros on the=20
market. I haven't found a need to go to another family yet. there was an=20
argument sometime ago about whether it was worth using if the=20
application didin't require low power consumption. My personal response=20
is that EVERY application should be made to consume as little power as=20
possible, but that's another pulpit to preach from! Suffice to say were=20
the PC world to adopt efficient coding techniques and effcient energy=20
managemtn design it would be the same as taking 30 million cars off the=20
road in terms of the environmental impact, but even Al gore doesn't get it!
Don't think the 2274 is in any way limited. I have a data logger that
includes the following:-
RF transceiver
temp sensor
pressure sensor
humidity sensor
GPS
3D accelerometer
3D mag field sensor
3D gyro
16M external memory
LEDs
optical sensors
remote reprogramming
UART for hardware mission upload/download if required
and an optional 64k colour LCD
it has plenty of spare memory and spare pins
At the other extreme I have a wireless data logger that measures 11.4mm
square which uses an mSP430F2131 and the CC1100 it has a range of at
least 130mtr indoors using a simple 0.8mm copper wire loop antenna
folded back over the PCB, and includes a motion sensor, optical sensor,
LEDs, and a TACT switch. There is a picture of this in my piccies folder
on the group site if you're interested
http://d.yimg. com/kq/groups/ 2342629/sn/ 1133855661/ name/n_a
Currently I am using the Nordic nRF24L01P for some designs, as I like
the level of automation and the 6 receive channel addresses. There is
absolutely minimal CPU overhead. It adds a lot of flexibility. It also
has good range considering its a 2.4Ghz low power device, with a high
data rate, and not quite as good sensitivity as some devices. It can
also operate with a fairly poor quality crystal, surprisingly enough,
although I don't chance that! Although a bit bulkier than the circuit
for the Nordic, and not quite as flexible, or as automated as the Nordic
stuff the Microchip MRF24J40MA/B is also a very nice part, and I have
tested it's LOS range to up to 400mtr, although its bulk means I'm
currently not using it in any designs. Finally I also source some
semi-custom parts from Asia, that pack the entire circuit into a smaller
area than the Nordic IC, which itself is only 4x4mm., so it may be worth=20
hunting around there before you commit.
Cheers for now
Al
Michael Malone wrote:
> Hi Al.
>=20
> Can I call you Al?
>=20
> Actually I suppose it was the other way around. I came to programming
> languages via the uC. I still remember _way_ back when men were men
> and sheep were frightened. Back then the 8080 and the 6800 were just
> having children (not together AFAIK - that would have produced
> interesting offspring). I got to play a little with the 8085 and the
> 6502 (a Rockwell variant of the 6802 IIRC). I still remember that 31
> c2 20 was the machine code to initialise the stack at 0x20c2 on the
> 8085. Ah, those were the days!
>=20
> Time passes. A lot of time has passed, perhaps far too much since
> then. Electronics was my first love and it is past time I repaid her
> a visit.
>=20
> I have taken a quick look at the ez430-2500. It looks nice too. It
> uses the MSP430f2274. This part is somewhat limited in capability
> compared to the MSP430f6137. This doesn't matter much now but might
> limit my learning later on. Ah, decisions, decisions! You refer to
> certain problems with the CC430f6137. Are these problems related
> solely to the wireless side - the CC1101? Are TI working to resolve
> these problems or will the product remain substantially as is? In
> other words, if I wait a while would the CC4306137 then become a more
> viable option?
>=20
> When you say TI have the 'PC code', do you mean that there are APIs
> available to allow a Windows front-end to be developed or do you mean
> that there is code for the PC development of the end device, i.e.
> using a PC based development platform to create code for the end
> device?
>=20
> The MSP family user guide makes a lot of the low power modes and that
> integrated devices such as ADCs and DMA can operate independent of
> the CPU and when the device is in a low power mode. So, for instance,
> the ADC can operate independently of the CPU and when it had
> completed a conversion it can cause an interrupt and wake-up the CPU.
> After the CPU has finished it will re-enter the low power mode.
> However there doesn't seem to be a similar capability to count events
> at a pin. Perhaps I missed something?
>=20
> Also I see that the DMA can handle a transfer to the IIC interface.
> And the IIC interface can request new data from the DMA controller
> when it requires it. As I understood, or mis-understood, it all this
> can happen with the device in a low power mode. There is no mention
> of such a capability with the SPI interface. Again perhaps I missed
> something?
>=20
> Thanks for your reply, Al. This gives me a lot to mull over.
>=20
> Take care.
>=20
> Mike
>=20
>=20
>=20
> ____________ _________ _________ __ From: OneStone
> To: msp430@yahoogroups. com Sent: Monday,
> August 3, 2009 4:23:35 PM Subject: Re: [msp430] Introduction and
> Queries
>=20
>=20
> Hi Mike. Your brain has been polluted by having come to=20
> micro-controllers by way of programming languages such as C. Better
> to have come to them via hardware, from which direction they appear=20
> simpler, and more rational. C is a language of abstraction.=20
> Micro-controllers deal with hard facts and the real world, and hence
> can't truly be divorced from them.
>=20
> A few personal observations, with the caveat that, although I have
> been in this industry for almost 40 years, and have been using C for
> most of them I am not a fan of C, or high level languages in general,
> on micro-controllers.
>=20
> I think a better place to start would be with the EZ430-2500 kit. It
> is simpler, and I believe easier to understand.
>=20
> Although I love the fact that finally there is an RF transceiver/
> micro combination that does NOT have an 8051 core, I'm not a fan of
> the CC1101. Too many bugs still, and far more complex than it needs
> to be to handle. I believe it should have been more tightly
> integrated into the micro than it was. This was a lazy job. The fact
> that it doesn't include USB also shows how poorly thought through
> their product chain has become, since the 5529 does have USB but no
> RF.
>=20
> 1. You can set up a small network with 2 EZ430-2500 kits modify the
> code and learn some useful stuff, then add your own sensors as you
> go. I think TI have the PC codes for these, and they are available. I
> roll my own.
>=20
> 2. Almost any micro can implement a pin event counter, look for clock
> type inputs in the data sheets, then study the user guide to find
> out how to configure them.
>=20
> 3. DMA can use any RAM (just about) as source or destination,
> including registers associated with peripherals like the UARTs and
> SPI. How much you really gain from using it for SPI is dubious in my
> opinion, since it is not a truly independent CPU, ie it still
> consumes clock cycles.
>=20
> Cheers
>=20
> Al
>=20
> solarquark wrote:
>> Hi All.
>>=20
>> My name is Mike and I, too, am a tech nut. I' sure there is a
>> 12-point program that you can help me with, but until then...
>>=20
>> I am new to the group but have been loitering here a little while.=20
>> I know very little about the MSP430 but am most anxious to learn.
>>=20
>> I used to read books about subject matters of interest to me
>> (C/C++, VB, and so on) but discovered that when I tried to complete
>> a project that there was some vital piece of information that had
>> been omitted from the book(s) concerned.
>>=20
>> So now I create 'realistic' projects - preferably something that
>> can be extended or built upon - and keep at it until that project
>> has been completed. I find this to be a far more successful means
>> of learning for me.
>>=20
>> And so I am formulating a project that I hope will teach me a lot
>> about the uCs in general and the MSP430 family in particular.
>>=20
>> I wish to create a data logger. Let us say that this data logger
>> will measure ambient temperature as a minimum and perhaps more
>> later. The data acquired will be transferred to a PC via a wireless
>> link.
>>=20
>> Seems like a simple spec, doesn't it :) (you can probably tell that
>> the madness set in a long time ago - I am assured that I was
>> relatively normal until I, figuratively speaking, met Kernigan and
>> Ritchie)
>>=20
>> The CC430f6137 seems like the ideal part for the job. It will also
>> allow me to extend myself later investigating such things as LCDs
>> and SPI and so on.
>>=20
>> Knowing nothing at all about wireless - I have the greatest
>> difficulty seting up the video recorder - SimpliciTI would seem to
>> be the place to start.
>>=20
>> I have some queries, and please forgive my ignorance. 1. SimpliciTI
>> Is it possible, by that I mean without having to invent something
>> new - to setup a wireless link from a CC430f6137 to a Windows PC?=20
>> In other words are there Windows APIs/DLLs that allow comms between
>> these? 2. MSP430 family As far as I can determine there is no
>> pin-event counter feature on these units. By that I mean that
>> signals into a particular pin cannot be counted except by use of
>> the CPU and code. Is this a correct interpretation of the docs? 3.
>> DMA As far as I can tell there is no DMA capability between memory
>> and SPI? Would this interpretation be correct?
>>=20
>> Again please forgive my almost total ignornace at this point. This
>> is a condition I intend to correct.
>>=20
>> Take care all.
>>=20
>> Mike
>>=20
>>=20
>>=20
>> ------------ --------- --------- ------
>>=20
>>
>>=20
>>
(You need to be a member of msp430 -- send a blank email to msp430-subscribe@yahoogroups.com )
http://d.yimg.com/kq/groups/2342629/sn/1133855661/name/n_a
That's small.
Mike
________________________________
From: OneStone
To: m...@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, August 3, 2009 7:07:49 PM
Subject: Re: [msp430] Introduction and Queries
=A0=20
Hi Mike, you're more than welcome to call me Al, as the song goes, many
people here call me far worse! Ah, so you're a newbie :@}, well so am I
compared to opa joerg and OCY, I just started jung (sorry, psycho joke).
OK, That's good, a lot of guys jump into micros from the PC world, not a
bad thing of course, anybody who has a go is good thing, but it is a
very different world as you will know.
I worked with the very first versions of the Cc1100. the CC1101 is an
upgrade, but unfortunately they really only improved ona few issues
related to FCC regs, not many of the control related issues. It is a bit
of a pain to program, and, in my view too cumbersome. If you look at the
errata sheet for the CC1101 you will see what I mean. Basic things like
the status (MARCSTATE) register cannot be relied on, and there is not in
my opinion a satisfactory workaround. this wasn't fixed according to the
CC1101 errata when I last looked, so has probably crawled over into the
CC430. Also you ask about PC AI's and DLL's. Ti are very slow to get off
the mark with support for their newest stuff, normally. this device
family has been trumpeted loudly for some time, but I can't see much in
the way of a dev kit or even application notes for it. I have no doubt
that these will come, and when they do they will be great if you want to
stick to basic stuff. But I've found that if you want tyo do something
even remotely off the beaten track you are on your own.
When the CC1100 was new I couldn't even get an answer from Ti on the
best way to match the antenna for use in differential mode. It strikes
me as odd that most of these single chip transceivers have a
differential output yet all the reference designs have matching circuits
for a single ended antenna.
In the end I went away from the Ti Rf stuff.
So will Ti correct the bugs? Probably not. Are they a huge problem? For=20
those who have gotten used to them no, for those who are doing mostly=20
mundane stuff, probably not, for those pushing the envelope a little,=20
yes, they might be.
Will TI correct all the errata in ther 6137? Likely not, since the 149=20
and a lot of earlier parts still have many bugs that are 10 years old,=20
and many newer parts have inherited these. Again this isn't a problem if=20
you are aware of them, and there is probably not a single device of any=20
complexity out there that doesn't have some bugs buried inside it.=20
personally I still think the MSP430 is one of the best micros on the=20
market. I haven't found a need to go to another family yet. there was an=20
argument sometime ago about whether it was worth using if the=20
application didin't require low power consumption. My personal response=20
is that EVERY application should be made to consume as little power as=20
possible, but that's another pulpit to preach from! Suffice to say were=20
the PC world to adopt efficient coding techniques and effcient energy=20
managemtn design it would be the same as taking 30 million cars off the=20
road in terms of the environmental impact, but even Al gore doesn't get it!
Don't think the 2274 is in any way limited. I have a data logger that
includes the following:-
RF transceiver
temp sensor
pressure sensor
humidity sensor
GPS
3D accelerometer
3D mag field sensor
3D gyro
16M external memory
LEDs
optical sensors
remote reprogramming
UART for hardware mission upload/download if required
and an optional 64k colour LCD
it has plenty of spare memory and spare pins
At the other extreme I have a wireless data logger that measures 11.4mm
square which uses an mSP430F2131 and the CC1100 it has a range of at
least 130mtr indoors using a simple 0.8mm copper wire loop antenna
folded back over the PCB, and includes a motion sensor, optical sensor,
LEDs, and a TACT switch. There is a picture of this in my piccies folder
on the group site if you're interested
http://d.yimg. com/kq/groups/ 2342629/sn/ 1133855661/ name/n_a
Currently I am using the Nordic nRF24L01P for some designs, as I like
the level of automation and the 6 receive channel addresses. There is
absolutely minimal CPU overhead. It adds a lot of flexibility. It also
has good range considering its a 2.4Ghz low power device, with a high
data rate, and not quite as good sensitivity as some devices. It can
also operate with a fairly poor quality crystal, surprisingly enough,
although I don't chance that! Although a bit bulkier than the circuit
for the Nordic, and not quite as flexible, or as automated as the Nordic
stuff the Microchip MRF24J40MA/B is also a very nice part, and I have
tested it's LOS range to up to 400mtr, although its bulk means I'm
currently not using it in any designs. Finally I also source some
semi-custom parts from Asia, that pack the entire circuit into a smaller
area than the Nordic IC, which itself is only 4x4mm., so it may be worth=20
hunting around there before you commit.
Cheers for now
Al
Michael Malone wrote:
> Hi Al.
>=20
> Can I call you Al?
>=20
> Actually I suppose it was the other way around. I came to programming
> languages via the uC. I still remember _way_ back when men were men
> and sheep were frightened. Back then the 8080 and the 6800 were just
> having children (not together AFAIK - that would have produced
> interesting offspring). I got to play a little with the 8085 and the
> 6502 (a Rockwell variant of the 6802 IIRC). I still remember that 31
> c2 20 was the machine code to initialise the stack at 0x20c2 on the
> 8085. Ah, those were the days!
>=20
> Time passes. A lot of time has passed, perhaps far too much since
> then. Electronics was my first love and it is past time I repaid her
> a visit.
>=20
> I have taken a quick look at the ez430-2500. It looks nice too. It
> uses the MSP430f2274. This part is somewhat limited in capability
> compared to the MSP430f6137. This doesn't matter much now but might
> limit my learning later on. Ah, decisions, decisions! You refer to
> certain problems with the CC430f6137. Are these problems related
> solely to the wireless side - the CC1101? Are TI working to resolve
> these problems or will the product remain substantially as is? In
> other words, if I wait a while would the CC4306137 then become a more
> viable option?
>=20
> When you say TI have the 'PC code', do you mean that there are APIs
> available to allow a Windows front-end to be developed or do you mean
> that there is code for the PC development of the end device, i.e.
> using a PC based development platform to create code for the end
> device?
>=20
> The MSP family user guide makes a lot of the low power modes and that
> integrated devices such as ADCs and DMA can operate independent of
> the CPU and when the device is in a low power mode. So, for instance,
> the ADC can operate independently of the CPU and when it had
> completed a conversion it can cause an interrupt and wake-up the CPU.
> After the CPU has finished it will re-enter the low power mode.
> However there doesn't seem to be a similar capability to count events
> at a pin. Perhaps I missed something?
>=20
> Also I see that the DMA can handle a transfer to the IIC interface.
> And the IIC interface can request new data from the DMA controller
> when it requires it. As I understood, or mis-understood, it all this
> can happen with the device in a low power mode. There is no mention
> of such a capability with the SPI interface. Again perhaps I missed
> something?
>=20
> Thanks for your reply, Al. This gives me a lot to mull over.
>=20
> Take care.
>=20
> Mike
>=20
>=20
>=20
> ____________ _________ _________ __ From: OneStone
>
> August 3, 2009 4:23:35 PM Subject: Re: [msp430] Introduction and
> Queries
>=20
>=20
> Hi Mike. Your brain has been polluted by having come to=20
> micro-controllers by way of programming languages such as C. Better
> to have come to them via hardware, from which direction they appear=20
> simpler, and more rational. C is a language of abstraction.=20
> Micro-controllers deal with hard facts and the real world, and hence
> can't truly be divorced from them.
>=20
> A few personal observations, with the caveat that, although I have
> been in this industry for almost 40 years, and have been using C for
> most of them I am not a fan of C, or high level languages in general,
> on micro-controllers.
>=20
> I think a better place to start would be with the EZ430-2500 kit. It
> is simpler, and I believe easier to understand.
>=20
> Although I love the fact that finally there is an RF transceiver/
> micro combination that does NOT have an 8051 core, I'm not a fan of
> the CC1101. Too many bugs still, and far more complex than it needs
> to be to handle. I believe it should have been more tightly
> integrated into the micro than it was. This was a lazy job. The fact
> that it doesn't include USB also shows how poorly thought through
> their product chain has become, since the 5529 does have USB but no
> RF.
>=20
> 1. You can set up a small network with 2 EZ430-2500 kits modify the
> code and learn some useful stuff, then add your own sensors as you
> go. I think TI have the PC codes for these, and they are available. I
> roll my own.
>=20
> 2. Almost any micro can implement a pin event counter, look for clock
> type inputs in the data sheets, then study the user guide to find
> out how to configure them.
>=20
> 3. DMA can use any RAM (just about) as source or destination,
> including registers associated with peripherals like the UARTs and
> SPI. How much you really gain from using it for SPI is dubious in my
> opinion, since it is not a truly independent CPU, ie it still
> consumes clock cycles.
>=20
> Cheers
>=20
> Al
>=20
> solarquark wrote:
>> Hi All.
>>=20
>> My name is Mike and I, too, am a tech nut. I' sure there is a
>> 12-point program that you can help me with, but until then...
>>=20
>> I am new to the group but have been loitering here a little while.=20
>> I know very little about the MSP430 but am most anxious to learn.
>>=20
>> I used to read books about subject matters of interest to me
>> (C/C++, VB, and so on) but discovered that when I tried to complete
>> a project that there was some vital piece of information that had
>> been omitted from the book(s) concerned.
>>=20
>> So now I create 'realistic' projects - preferably something that
>> can be extended or built upon - and keep at it until that project
>> has been completed. I find this to be a far more successful means
>> of learning for me.
>>=20
>> And so I am formulating a project that I hope will teach me a lot
>> about the uCs in general and the MSP430 family in particular.
>>=20
>> I wish to create a data logger. Let us say that this data logger
>> will measure ambient temperature as a minimum and perhaps more
>> later. The data acquired will be transferred to a PC via a wireless
>> link.
>>=20
>> Seems like a simple spec, doesn't it :) (you can probably tell that
>> the madness set in a long time ago - I am assured that I was
>> relatively normal until I, figuratively speaking, met Kernigan and
>> Ritchie)
>>=20
>> The CC430f6137 seems like the ideal part for the job. It will also
>> allow me to extend myself later investigating such things as LCDs
>> and SPI and so on.
>>=20
>> Knowing nothing at all about wireless - I have the greatest
>> difficulty seting up the video recorder - SimpliciTI would seem to
>> be the place to start.
>>=20
>> I have some queries, and please forgive my ignorance. 1. SimpliciTI
>> Is it possible, by that I mean without having to invent something
>> new - to setup a wireless link from a CC430f6137 to a Windows PC?=20
>> In other words are there Windows APIs/DLLs that allow comms between
>> these? 2. MSP430 family As far as I can determine there is no
>> pin-event counter feature on these units. By that I mean that
>> signals into a particular pin cannot be counted except by use of
>> the CPU and code. Is this a correct interpretation of the docs? 3.
>> DMA As far as I can tell there is no DMA capability between memory
>> and SPI? Would this interpretation be correct?
>>=20
>> Again please forgive my almost total ignornace at this point. This
>> is a condition I intend to correct.
>>=20
>> Take care all.
>>=20
>> Mike
>>=20
>>=20
>>=20
>> ------------ --------- --------- ------
>>=20
>>
>>=20
>>
(You need to be a member of msp430 -- send a blank email to msp430-subscribe@yahoogroups.com )