Hello,

I posted a question similiar to this several weeks back. My attention was diverted but has returned and I am still needing a bit of guidance.

I have 2x MSP430FG4618 Experimenters Board with CC2420 chips plugged into them. I need to write a simple wireless app where one m-ctrl just sends all of its flash to the other via zigbee. Because of the simplicity of my needs (and my version of IAR, and a number of other reasons), I do not want to use z-stack. I have already written the application that collects the data to fill the memory and deals with it once there using proprietary code and would like to do the same for the zigbee.

I have read the manually thoroughly however I am not sure how to specifically configure the registers. When I first got working with the MSP430 MCU the reference manual in combination with the example files were so helpful to me. I just `got it.` Unfortunately, I have found no such examples for the CC2420 where an uncomplicated zigbee app is utilized without z-stack on the CC2420 (or any other similiar TI chip for that matter)

Please note: I am not looking for an app to do exactly what I want, I am just looking for a few examples where the MCU sends some data to the CC2420 and then reads the incoming data.

REASON BEING, the gap in knowledge that I have is how to manipulate the CC2420 from the code loaded onto the MSP430. I can figure out the details of it using the refence text but I have never done anything like this so a simple zigbee example would do WONDERS for me to clear things up! I have read the manual, I see what it says, but I am still not 100% clear.

------------------------------------



(You need to be a member of msp430 -- send a blank email to msp430-subscribe@yahoogroups.com )

Could someone atleast say why noone is willing to help in the matter?

With the MCU itself it was easy to learn -- check an example, `okay, that is generally how registers are configured with IAR on this device, now let me check the reference manual to review the paramters`

With the wireless chip it says `Configure the registers using SPI`, okay, I know what SPI is and how to use it but I do not know which to configure specifically and to what state with proprietary code.

Maybe there is a reason people NEVER seem to use proprietary zigbee code? I don't know, but I would like to do it.

------------------------------------



(You need to be a member of msp430 -- send a blank email to msp430-subscribe@yahoogroups.com )

If it is to conform with the zigbee standard there isn't much point in
doing it yourself when Ti and others have spoent millions on producing
fully tested systems that have been verified by the Zigbee alliance. If
it doesn't conform then it isn't zigbee anyway, and might as well be any
old protocol. I almost always produce my own proprietary protocols, as
it can add an extra layer of security where standards compliance isn't
necessary, or simply reduce system overhead where complex schemes are
not needed, and it therefore makes no sense to share them.

Cheers

Al

mastarre wrote:
> Could someone atleast say why noone is willing to help in the matter?
>
> With the MCU itself it was easy to learn -- check an example, `okay, that is generally how registers are configured with IAR on this device, now let me check the reference manual to review the paramters`
>
> With the wireless chip it says `Configure the registers using SPI`, okay, I know what SPI is and how to use it but I do not know which to configure specifically and to what state with proprietary code.
>
> Maybe there is a reason people NEVER seem to use proprietary zigbee code? I don't know, but I would like to do it.
>
> ------------------------------------



(You need to be a member of msp430 -- send a blank email to msp430-subscribe@yahoogroups.com )

Masterre,
> Could someone atleast say why noone is willing to help in the matter?
Not willing? That's quite disrispectful and shortsighted. Leave the forum any time you like. You're assuming a lot people on this forum can and HAVE to help you but aren't doing it. You're not paying anyone anything so don't think anyone is forced to do anything for you.

Basically, you're configuring a complex RF transceiver which is nothing like a microcontroller. On the MSP430 you are actually not required to configure anything to get it going, it will start executing instructions right away. For getting the CC2420 to transmit and receive data, you have to configure it according to your RF specs. You don't even seem to have those clear.
Moreover, implementing a good, robust RF protocol on your own, using the CC2420 or not, will probably take you no less than 3 months. Don't expect anyone to give you their 3 months work for free.

> With the wireless chip it says `Configure the registers using SPI`,
> okay, I know what SPI is and how to use it but I do not know which
> to configure specifically and to what state with proprietary code.

>From this and your previous posts on the matter it seems you're just looking for a 'quick fix', not bothering to actually study the datasheet as I recommend. STUDY THE DAMNED DATASHEET, not just search for how to get it going quickly.

For just sending and receiving data with the CC2420 all you should need is TI's SmartRF Studio and the CC2420 datasheet. Then you can program your own protocol any way you like. Have you installed the SmartRF studio and toyed with it?

I'm pissed off. You're lazy enought not to study the datasheet but for some reason think you have the right to demand answers? And more than that, demand free code? You have been given more than enought help to get you started, but you won't do the minimum effort necessary to continue. I douby you even considered using other free compilers that support more code which will enable you to use the z-stack as you were suggested. You didn't get what you wanted, but you got what you needed, so start using your brain and stop complaining.

Did you even STUDY the CC2420 datasheet before purchasing the boards? I quote from the datasheet:
"The CC2420 is a true single-chip 2.4 GHz
IEEE 802.15.4 compliant RF transceiver
designed for low power and low voltage
wireless applications. CC2420 includes a
digital direct sequence spread spectrum
baseband modem providing a spreading
gain of 9 dB and an effective data rate of
250 kbps."

If you don't understand each and every word and concept, you selected the wrong chip/system to use and develop your own RF protocol. Start over and this time make sure you understand what you want to do and how before you buy a development board/system.

Michael K.

--- In m...@yahoogroups.com, "mastarre" wrote:
>
> Could someone atleast say why noone is willing to help in the matter?
>
> With the MCU itself it was easy to learn -- check an example, `okay, that is generally how registers are configured with IAR on this device, now let me check the reference manual to review the paramters`
>
> With the wireless chip it says `Configure the registers using SPI`, okay, I know what SPI is and how to use it but I do not know which to configure specifically and to what state with proprietary code.
>
> Maybe there is a reason people NEVER seem to use proprietary zigbee code? I don't know, but I would like to do it.
>
------------------------------------

______________________________
Stellaris® MCU Family: New Parts, New Package, New Price.


(You need to be a member of msp430 -- send a blank email to msp430-subscribe@yahoogroups.com )

My second post was essentially to say -- is there some reason why people were viewing my topic but not replying. In other words, was my question not clear, was it too simple, was it impossible, etc -- what was I doing wrong. I have been an active member of a number of forums where I have replied to some messages and not others for various reasons. This forum is a little funny in how the topics are listed and discussed (and google shows that a number of topics are never replied to) and so I wanted to see what changes (if any) I needed to make.

The issue is that I am a student and I am learning this from the bottom up. The question I am trying to get across is: How do I get started? It may seem like an impossible question but the expertise many people on this forum have began somewhere. I have taught labs while in my graduate program and giving someone the first basic tools is the hardest but most important part.

I have read the manual in its entirety and gone through the z-stack examples however I still feel like there are a few border pieces missing from the puzzle that I need to collect and place before I can begin filling in the rest.

Apparently what I was asking for was a lot larger of a question that I had figured. Obviously I am missing more pieces than I thought. Sometimes one medium-level question will turn into a number of lower-level questions. I have utilized the resources recommended however what I have been trying to say is that I need the groundwork, I need a simpler example or discussion to help me to know how to approach the problem. I have searched all over and spent many days reading (I am a grad student so I am in my office 6 days a week trying to get things going) but I keep feeling like what I need is for some direct guidance. I didn't feel like I got it in the last thread and I thought that maybe it was because my question wasn't clear. Maybe I did the same thing again here.

--- In m...@yahoogroups.com, "tintronic" wrote:
>
> Masterre,
> > Could someone atleast say why noone is willing to help in the matter?
> Not willing? That's quite disrispectful and shortsighted. Leave the forum any time you like. You're assuming a lot people on this forum can and HAVE to help you but aren't doing it. You're not paying anyone anything so don't think anyone is forced to do anything for you.
>
> Basically, you're configuring a complex RF transceiver which is nothing like a microcontroller. On the MSP430 you are actually not required to configure anything to get it going, it will start executing instructions right away. For getting the CC2420 to transmit and receive data, you have to configure it according to your RF specs. You don't even seem to have those clear.
> Moreover, implementing a good, robust RF protocol on your own, using the CC2420 or not, will probably take you no less than 3 months. Don't expect anyone to give you their 3 months work for free.
>
> > With the wireless chip it says `Configure the registers using SPI`,
> > okay, I know what SPI is and how to use it but I do not know which
> > to configure specifically and to what state with proprietary code.
>
> From this and your previous posts on the matter it seems you're just looking for a 'quick fix', not bothering to actually study the datasheet as I recommend. STUDY THE DAMNED DATASHEET, not just search for how to get it going quickly.
>
> For just sending and receiving data with the CC2420 all you should need is TI's SmartRF Studio and the CC2420 datasheet. Then you can program your own protocol any way you like. Have you installed the SmartRF studio and toyed with it?
>
> I'm pissed off. You're lazy enought not to study the datasheet but for some reason think you have the right to demand answers? And more than that, demand free code? You have been given more than enought help to get you started, but you won't do the minimum effort necessary to continue. I douby you even considered using other free compilers that support more code which will enable you to use the z-stack as you were suggested. You didn't get what you wanted, but you got what you needed, so start using your brain and stop complaining.
>
> Did you even STUDY the CC2420 datasheet before purchasing the boards? I quote from the datasheet:
> "The CC2420 is a true single-chip 2.4 GHz
> IEEE 802.15.4 compliant RF transceiver
> designed for low power and low voltage
> wireless applications. CC2420 includes a
> digital direct sequence spread spectrum
> baseband modem providing a spreading
> gain of 9 dB and an effective data rate of
> 250 kbps."
>
> If you don't understand each and every word and concept, you selected the wrong chip/system to use and develop your own RF protocol. Start over and this time make sure you understand what you want to do and how before you buy a development board/system.
>
> Michael K.
>
> --- In m...@yahoogroups.com, "mastarre" wrote:
> >
> > Could someone atleast say why noone is willing to help in the matter?
> >
> > With the MCU itself it was easy to learn -- check an example, `okay, that is generally how registers are configured with IAR on this device, now let me check the reference manual to review the paramters`
> >
> > With the wireless chip it says `Configure the registers using SPI`, okay, I know what SPI is and how to use it but I do not know which to configure specifically and to what state with proprietary code.
> >
> > Maybe there is a reason people NEVER seem to use proprietary zigbee code? I don't know, but I would like to do it.
>

------------------------------------



(You need to be a member of msp430 -- send a blank email to msp430-subscribe@yahoogroups.com )

As a student you should find this easy! After all the jargon is all
current at least. For many of us old farts half of the task seems to be
that just when you've got one lot thoroughly understood along comes some
academic inventing a whole new set, for no apparent reason than to make
it seem like something new has been created. In days of old you created
a package to control an RF transceiver, now you have MAC PHY and who
knows what else, appearing from nowhere, and, depending on what
documentation you read, having slightly different meanings. And since
when was a chunk of software a 'stack'? Its just a comms library that's
it why invent a whole new language just so you kids can get one over on
the old farts.

It's a simple question, that I believe I've already answered simply.
read the CC2420 manual and you'll understand that it is a very complex
device. Then read the zigbee standards documents. Then read the
application notes on things like RSSI, LQI, CCA, and their interactions,
and you'll find it can be even more complicated that you at first
thought. Hence it makes no sense to write a zigbee stack if you can
avoid doing so, unless it is for the learning experience, especially if
it is to pass certification, as this is an extremely time consuming
task. Consider it isn't just a case of testing one device or
configuration, you must handle end points, in low power sleep modes, and
deal with errors at unit and network level. Suffice to say it is
complex, and the reason why for many years after the standard was
published even very large companies struggled to get their products
certified.

As to other proprietary protocols. Mostly people create them because
they want something unique, and thus it makes no sense to give them away.

Al

mastarre wrote:
> My second post was essentially to say -- is there some reason why people were viewing my topic but not replying. In other words, was my question not clear, was it too simple, was it impossible, etc -- what was I doing wrong. I have been an active member of a number of forums where I have replied to some messages and not others for various reasons. This forum is a little funny in how the topics are listed and discussed (and google shows that a number of topics are never replied to) and so I wanted to see what changes (if any) I needed to make.
>
> The issue is that I am a student and I am learning this from the bottom up. The question I am trying to get across is: How do I get started? It may seem like an impossible question but the expertise many people on this forum have began somewhere. I have taught labs while in my graduate program and giving someone the first basic tools is the hardest but most important part.
>
> I have read the manual in its entirety and gone through the z-stack examples however I still feel like there are a few border pieces missing from the puzzle that I need to collect and place before I can begin filling in the rest.
>
> Apparently what I was asking for was a lot larger of a question that I had figured. Obviously I am missing more pieces than I thought. Sometimes one medium-level question will turn into a number of lower-level questions. I have utilized the resources recommended however what I have been trying to say is that I need the groundwork, I need a simpler example or discussion to help me to know how to approach the problem. I have searched all over and spent many days reading (I am a grad student so I am in my office 6 days a week trying to get things going) but I keep feeling like what I need is for some direct guidance. I didn't feel like I got it in the last thread and I thought that maybe it was because my question wasn't clear. Maybe I did the same thing again here.
>
> --- In m...@yahoogroups.com, "tintronic" wrote:
>> Masterre,
>>> Could someone atleast say why noone is willing to help in the matter?
>> Not willing? That's quite disrispectful and shortsighted. Leave the forum any time you like. You're assuming a lot people on this forum can and HAVE to help you but aren't doing it. You're not paying anyone anything so don't think anyone is forced to do anything for you.
>>
>> Basically, you're configuring a complex RF transceiver which is nothing like a microcontroller. On the MSP430 you are actually not required to configure anything to get it going, it will start executing instructions right away. For getting the CC2420 to transmit and receive data, you have to configure it according to your RF specs. You don't even seem to have those clear.
>> Moreover, implementing a good, robust RF protocol on your own, using the CC2420 or not, will probably take you no less than 3 months. Don't expect anyone to give you their 3 months work for free.
>>
>>> With the wireless chip it says `Configure the registers using SPI`,
>>> okay, I know what SPI is and how to use it but I do not know which
>>> to configure specifically and to what state with proprietary code.
>> From this and your previous posts on the matter it seems you're just looking for a 'quick fix', not bothering to actually study the datasheet as I recommend. STUDY THE DAMNED DATASHEET, not just search for how to get it going quickly.
>>
>> For just sending and receiving data with the CC2420 all you should need is TI's SmartRF Studio and the CC2420 datasheet. Then you can program your own protocol any way you like. Have you installed the SmartRF studio and toyed with it?
>>
>> I'm pissed off. You're lazy enought not to study the datasheet but for some reason think you have the right to demand answers? And more than that, demand free code? You have been given more than enought help to get you started, but you won't do the minimum effort necessary to continue. I douby you even considered using other free compilers that support more code which will enable you to use the z-stack as you were suggested. You didn't get what you wanted, but you got what you needed, so start using your brain and stop complaining.
>>
>> Did you even STUDY the CC2420 datasheet before purchasing the boards? I quote from the datasheet:
>> "The CC2420 is a true single-chip 2.4 GHz
>> IEEE 802.15.4 compliant RF transceiver
>> designed for low power and low voltage
>> wireless applications. CC2420 includes a
>> digital direct sequence spread spectrum
>> baseband modem providing a spreading
>> gain of 9 dB and an effective data rate of
>> 250 kbps."
>>
>> If you don't understand each and every word and concept, you selected the wrong chip/system to use and develop your own RF protocol. Start over and this time make sure you understand what you want to do and how before you buy a development board/system.
>>
>> Michael K.
>>
>> --- In m...@yahoogroups.com, "mastarre" wrote:
>>> Could someone atleast say why noone is willing to help in the matter?
>>>
>>> With the MCU itself it was easy to learn -- check an example, `okay, that is generally how registers are configured with IAR on this device, now let me check the reference manual to review the paramters`
>>>
>>> With the wireless chip it says `Configure the registers using SPI`, okay, I know what SPI is and how to use it but I do not know which to configure specifically and to what state with proprietary code.
>>>
>>> Maybe there is a reason people NEVER seem to use proprietary zigbee code? I don't know, but I would like to do it.
>>>
> ------------------------------------



(You need to be a member of msp430 -- send a blank email to msp430-subscribe@yahoogroups.com )

Thanks for the reply! That was very nice to read :)

I think that the largest issue that I had was that I felt like all of the stuff in the stack was `too much` for my simple task. Basically all that I want to do is have multiple devices which send the contents of their memory OTA to a device connected to a computer which then transfers that information via serial to an app I've written on the computer.

I envisioned myself being to send a packet with a simple handshake byte or two and a unique identifying byte or two for the xfering device and to then follow it with the data and an end byte. Given that this is essentially all that I do with serial communication I didn't think that it would be THAT much more difficult to do it OTA, especially given that this device will never leave a lab setting where I have total control over the makeup of the system. I (apparently very naively) thought that I could simply configure the wireless chip at the end device to send data and then send it a stream of data to dump OTA, then configure the coordinator to listen for that and process it. That is why I was looking for simple examples -- I had thought that there is away to do it just like that. I get now that doing that would not be complaint with the Zigbee protocal (I was sort of conviently neglecting the word protocal) however I would still be interested to know if there is some means to do it that simply if the device is not meant to be commercial. In a lot of the example files that I have seen for point-to-point devices such as simple robotics the source files have been far less involved compared to what I see when I load the workspace of the zigbee GenericApp. Can anyone tell me what I am missing?

What I am realizing is that while the 802.15.4 standard would allow for something along those lines where very little is done to ensure the network is `ready for anything`, Zigbee requires that these steps are in place to be complaint to the protocol. Writing that out just now made it clear that I am still a bit fuzzy so I will make a flowchart of sorts shortly for my own use.

------------------------------------



(You need to be a member of msp430 -- send a blank email to msp430-subscribe@yahoogroups.com )

Download and study Ti's Simpliciti protocol, it is very simple, as the
name implies, lots of guys here have easily modified it to suit their
own needs, a few have been forthcoming with what they have done, but
this is not even remotely related to zigbee. Where you are becoming
confused, perhaps, is because the CC2420 and many device slike it are
often marketed as zigbee compatible, which of course they are, but they
are also capable of being used in other simpler protocols. personally I
haven't bothered much with Simpliciti, other than to have a quick look
at it in various development and evaluation kits, but I have implemented
networks with the transceivers at the core of the CC2420, ie the CC11xx
and CC25xx parts. You might also want to look at the newer MSP430 based
single chip solutions from Ti, although these use the CC1101 rather than
the 2.4GHz parts, my guess is that these are in the pipes.

Cheers

Al

mastarre wrote:
> Thanks for the reply! That was very nice to read :)
>
> I think that the largest issue that I had was that I felt like all of the stuff in the stack was `too much` for my simple task. Basically all that I want to do is have multiple devices which send the contents of their memory OTA to a device connected to a computer which then transfers that information via serial to an app I've written on the computer.
>
> I envisioned myself being to send a packet with a simple handshake byte or two and a unique identifying byte or two for the xfering device and to then follow it with the data and an end byte. Given that this is essentially all that I do with serial communication I didn't think that it would be THAT much more difficult to do it OTA, especially given that this device will never leave a lab setting where I have total control over the makeup of the system. I (apparently very naively) thought that I could simply configure the wireless chip at the end device to send data and then send it a stream of data to dump OTA, then configure the coordinator to listen for that and process it. That is why I was looking for simple examples -- I had thought that there is away to do it just like that. I get now that doing that would not be complaint with the Zigbee protocal (I was sort of conviently neglecting the word protocal) however I would still be interested to know if there is some mean
s to do it that simply if the device is not meant to be commercial. In a lot of the example files that I have seen for point-to-point devices such as simple robotics the source files have been far less involved compared to what I see when I load the workspace of the zigbee GenericApp. Can anyone tell me what I am missing?
>
> What I am realizing is that while the 802.15.4 standard would allow for something along those lines where very little is done to ensure the network is `ready for anything`, Zigbee requires that these steps are in place to be complaint to the protocol. Writing that out just now made it clear that I am still a bit fuzzy so I will make a flowchart of sorts shortly for my own use.
>
> ------------------------------------



(You need to be a member of msp430 -- send a blank email to msp430-subscribe@yahoogroups.com )

After thinking on it a bit longer and doing more reading, I think that what is really making Z-stack seem so daunting or impractical is in fact the workspace loaded by the examples. Maybe what I should have asked for is a striped down example with only the minimal files so I could traverse my way through them connecting the dots in my head. Or maybe that is not possible and I am confused yet.

Checking through my library of saved examples, I find one labeled `link_poll` that I got from TI's website. The main reads like below which is exactly the type of simplicity I was hoping to find. Perhaps the best way for me to answer my own question would be to try to configure the CC2420 to perform the below task as this app was written for the CC1100/CC2500 (see http://focus.ti.com/lit/an/slaa325/slaa325.pdf for more information). Is this possible? If so, what type of wireless comm would it be called?

Sorry, I know I am asking some REALLY simple questions but I feel like I have read so much my head is spinning a bit.

//----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
// void main(void)
//
// DESCRIPTION:
// This is the main entry of the "link_poll" application. It sets up the board and
// lets the user select operating mode (RX or TX) by pressing either button
// S1 or S2. In TX mode, a packet containing random data (with arbitrary length)
// is written to the FIFO of the RF chip continously. In RX mode, the LCD will be
// updated every time a new packet is successfully received. If an error occurs
// during reception, a LED will flash.
//----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
void main (void)
{
uint8 id;
uint8 ver;
uint16 key;

halBoardInit();

halUartWrite("CC1100 & CC2500 Link Example\r\n", 30);

halRfResetChip();

id = halRfGetChipId();
ver = halRfGetChipVer();
halLcdWriteValue((id << 8) | ver, HAL_LCD_RADIX_HEX, 0);

// Put radio to sleep
halRfStrobe(CC2500_SPWD);
// Set up interrupts for events on the S1 and S2 buttons
halDigioIntSetEdge(&pinS1, HAL_DIGIO_INT_RISING_EDGE);
halDigioIntConnect(&pinS1, &myRxButtonISR);
halDigioIntEnable(&pinS1);

halDigioIntSetEdge(&pinS2, HAL_DIGIO_INT_RISING_EDGE);
halDigioIntConnect(&pinS2, &myTxButtonISR);
halDigioIntEnable(&pinS2);

// Wait for user to select operating mode
key = halIntLock();
while (!buttonPushed)
{
halMcuSetLowPowerMode(HAL_MCU_LPM_3);
key = halIntLock();
}
halIntUnlock(key);
buttonPushed = FALSE;

// Setup chip with register settings from SmartRF Studio
halRfConfig(&myRfConfig, myPaTable, myPaTableLen);

// Additional chip configuration for this example
halRfWriteReg(CC2500_MCSM0, 0x18); // Calibration from IDLE to TX/RX
halRfWriteReg(CC2500_MCSM1, 0x00); // No CCA, IDLE after TX and RX
halRfWriteReg(CC2500_PKTCTRL0, 0x45); // Enable data whitening and CRC
halRfWriteReg(CC2500_PKTCTRL1, 0x04); // Enable append mode
if (radioMode == RADIO_MODE_RX)
{
uint16 counter;
uint8 payloadLength;

rxInit();
counter = 0;
while (TRUE)
{
if (rxRecvPacket(data, &payloadLength, 10000) == 0)
{
halLcdWriteValue(++counter, HAL_LCD_RADIX_HEX, 0);
}
else
{
halLedToggle(1);
halMcuWaitUs(20000);
halLedToggle(1);
}
}
}
else if (radioMode == RADIO_MODE_TX)
{
uint16 counter;
uint8 packetLength;

txInit();
counter = 0;
while (TRUE)
{
// Create a dummy packet
preparePacket(counter, data, &packetLength);

// Send packet
txSendPacket(data, packetLength);

// Display number of packets sent
halLcdWriteValue(++counter, HAL_LCD_RADIX_HEX, 0);

// Wait a bit such that the receiver is not saturated
halMcuWaitUs(2000);
}
}
}

------------------------------------

______________________________
Stellaris® MCU Family: New Parts, New Package, New Price.


(You need to be a member of msp430 -- send a blank email to msp430-subscribe@yahoogroups.com )