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The purpose of this group is to foster exchange of information on the Texas Instruments MSP430 family of microcontrollers and related tools. Everyone welcome, all levels of familiarity/expertise.
Bluetooth - Jim Carlson - Nov 20 16:37:47 2009
Does anyone have a recommendation for adding Bluetooth to a MSP430 handheld
unit? I have a spi bus that I would like to use as the interface.
Thanks
Jim
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
------------------------------------
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unit? I have a spi bus that I would like to use as the interface.
Thanks
Jim
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
------------------------------------
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Re: Bluetooth - Henry Liu - Nov 20 17:03:18 2009
Roving networks RN41. $25 at mouser/digikey.
On Fri, Nov 20, 2009 at 1:37 PM, Jim Carlsonwrote:
> Does anyone have a recommendation for adding Bluetooth to a MSP430 handheld
> unit? I have a spi bus that I would like to use as the interface.
>
> Thanks
>
> Jim
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
------------------------------------
(You need to be a member of msp430 -- send a blank email to msp430-subscribe@yahoogroups.com )
On Fri, Nov 20, 2009 at 1:37 PM, Jim Carlson
> Does anyone have a recommendation for adding Bluetooth to a MSP430 handheld
> unit? I have a spi bus that I would like to use as the interface.
>
> Thanks
>
> Jim
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
------------------------------------
(You need to be a member of msp430 -- send a blank email to msp430-subscribe@yahoogroups.com )
Re: Bluetooth - Michael - Nov 23 9:58:24 2009
But the RN41 module's SPI inteface is for programming only; you can't use it for
transferring data over bluetooth (which would have been great). At least that's what I got
from the datasheet (I'm toddling with one).
However, you can achieve a quite high uart speed (I think it is about 1Mbit).
I'd too appreciate suggestions on Bluetooth modules. Digikey has a few. I think the RN41 was among the cheapest, but just coudn't get them to send one to my country. Damned paranoid USA policies. We even have an FTA (free trade agreement) with you, you idiots!
Sorry for the outrage, I just quit my job 2 minutes ago...
Regards,
Michael K.
--- In m...@yahoogroups.com, Henry Liu wrote:
>
> Roving networks RN41. $25 at mouser/digikey.
>
> On Fri, Nov 20, 2009 at 1:37 PM, Jim Carlsonwrote:
>
> >
> >
> > Does anyone have a recommendation for adding Bluetooth to a MSP430 handheld
> > unit? I have a spi bus that I would like to use as the interface.
> >
> > Thanks
> >
> > Jim
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> >
> >
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
------------------------------------
(You need to be a member of msp430 -- send a blank email to msp430-subscribe@yahoogroups.com )
However, you can achieve a quite high uart speed (I think it is about 1Mbit).
I'd too appreciate suggestions on Bluetooth modules. Digikey has a few. I think the RN41 was among the cheapest, but just coudn't get them to send one to my country. Damned paranoid USA policies. We even have an FTA (free trade agreement) with you, you idiots!
Sorry for the outrage, I just quit my job 2 minutes ago...
Regards,
Michael K.
--- In m...@yahoogroups.com, Henry Liu
>
> Roving networks RN41. $25 at mouser/digikey.
>
> On Fri, Nov 20, 2009 at 1:37 PM, Jim Carlson
>
> >
> >
> > Does anyone have a recommendation for adding Bluetooth to a MSP430 handheld
> > unit? I have a spi bus that I would like to use as the interface.
> >
> > Thanks
> >
> > Jim
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> >
> >
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
------------------------------------
(You need to be a member of msp430 -- send a blank email to msp430-subscribe@yahoogroups.com )
Re: Re: Bluetooth - John Luciani - Nov 23 10:13:27 2009
I have used the BlueGiga WT12A which is also SPI for programming and UART
for communications.
Some programming can be done through the UART as well. I am not sure the
function overlap between
the two ports.
(* jcl *)
On Mon, Nov 23, 2009 at 9:54 AM, Michael wrote:
> But the RN41 module's SPI inteface is for programming only; you can't use
> it for transferring data over bluetooth (which would have been great). At
> least that's what I got from the datasheet (I'm toddling with one).
> However, you can achieve a quite high uart speed (I think it is about
> 1Mbit).
> I'd too appreciate suggestions on Bluetooth modules. Digikey has a few. I
> think the RN41 was among the cheapest, but just coudn't get them to send one
> to my country. Damned paranoid USA policies. We even have an FTA (free trade
> agreement) with you, you idiots!
> Sorry for the outrage, I just quit my job 2 minutes ago...
>
> Regards,
> Michael K.
>
> --- In m...@yahoogroups.com, Henry Liu wrote:
> >
> > Roving networks RN41. $25 at mouser/digikey.
> >
> > On Fri, Nov 20, 2009 at 1:37 PM, Jim Carlsonwrote:
> >
> > >
> > >
> > > Does anyone have a recommendation for adding Bluetooth to a MSP430
> handheld
> > > unit? I have a spi bus that I would like to use as the interface.
> > >
> > > Thanks
> > >
> > > Jim
> > >
> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> ------------------------------------
(You need to be a member of msp430 -- send a blank email to msp430-subscribe@yahoogroups.com )
for communications.
Some programming can be done through the UART as well. I am not sure the
function overlap between
the two ports.
(* jcl *)
On Mon, Nov 23, 2009 at 9:54 AM, Michael
> But the RN41 module's SPI inteface is for programming only; you can't use
> it for transferring data over bluetooth (which would have been great). At
> least that's what I got from the datasheet (I'm toddling with one).
> However, you can achieve a quite high uart speed (I think it is about
> 1Mbit).
> I'd too appreciate suggestions on Bluetooth modules. Digikey has a few. I
> think the RN41 was among the cheapest, but just coudn't get them to send one
> to my country. Damned paranoid USA policies. We even have an FTA (free trade
> agreement) with you, you idiots!
> Sorry for the outrage, I just quit my job 2 minutes ago...
>
> Regards,
> Michael K.
>
> --- In m...@yahoogroups.com, Henry Liu
> >
> > Roving networks RN41. $25 at mouser/digikey.
> >
> > On Fri, Nov 20, 2009 at 1:37 PM, Jim Carlson
> >
> > >
> > >
> > > Does anyone have a recommendation for adding Bluetooth to a MSP430
> handheld
> > > unit? I have a spi bus that I would like to use as the interface.
> > >
> > > Thanks
> > >
> > > Jim
> > >
> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> ------------------------------------
(You need to be a member of msp430 -- send a blank email to msp430-subscribe@yahoogroups.com )
Re: Bluetooth - Michael - Nov 23 10:37:50 2009
On the RN41 the uart (as well as the virtual COM port) can be used for configuring the
device (baudrate, bluetooth clasification, device name, operating mode, etc), but the SPI
is for programming, as in flashing, the device.
Regards,
Michael K.
P.D.: I appologise if this mail gets you twice, but I didn't get a confirmation after pressing 'send' on the Y!G web composer. And did not find a new post on this tread.
--- In m...@yahoogroups.com, John Luciani wrote:
>
> I have used the BlueGiga WT12A which is also SPI for programming and UART
> for communications.
> Some programming can be done through the UART as well. I am not sure the
> function overlap between
> the two ports.
>
> (* jcl *)
>
> On Mon, Nov 23, 2009 at 9:54 AM, Michael wrote:
>
> > But the RN41 module's SPI inteface is for programming only; you can't use
> > it for transferring data over bluetooth (which would have been great). At
> > least that's what I got from the datasheet (I'm toddling with one).
> > However, you can achieve a quite high uart speed (I think it is about
> > 1Mbit).
> > I'd too appreciate suggestions on Bluetooth modules. Digikey has a few. I
> > think the RN41 was among the cheapest, but just coudn't get them to send one
> > to my country. Damned paranoid USA policies. We even have an FTA (free trade
> > agreement) with you, you idiots!
> > Sorry for the outrage, I just quit my job 2 minutes ago...
> >
> > Regards,
> > Michael K.
> >
> > --- In m...@yahoogroups.com, Henry Liu wrote:
> > >
> > > Roving networks RN41. $25 at mouser/digikey.
> > >
> > > On Fri, Nov 20, 2009 at 1:37 PM, Jim Carlsonwrote:
> > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Does anyone have a recommendation for adding Bluetooth to a MSP430
> > handheld
> > > > unit? I have a spi bus that I would like to use as the interface.
> > > >
> > > > Thanks
> > > >
> > > > Jim
> > > >
> > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------------
> >
> >
> >
> >
(You need to be a member of msp430 -- send a blank email to msp430-subscribe@yahoogroups.com )
Regards,
Michael K.
P.D.: I appologise if this mail gets you twice, but I didn't get a confirmation after pressing 'send' on the Y!G web composer. And did not find a new post on this tread.
--- In m...@yahoogroups.com, John Luciani
>
> I have used the BlueGiga WT12A which is also SPI for programming and UART
> for communications.
> Some programming can be done through the UART as well. I am not sure the
> function overlap between
> the two ports.
>
> (* jcl *)
>
> On Mon, Nov 23, 2009 at 9:54 AM, Michael
>
> > But the RN41 module's SPI inteface is for programming only; you can't use
> > it for transferring data over bluetooth (which would have been great). At
> > least that's what I got from the datasheet (I'm toddling with one).
> > However, you can achieve a quite high uart speed (I think it is about
> > 1Mbit).
> > I'd too appreciate suggestions on Bluetooth modules. Digikey has a few. I
> > think the RN41 was among the cheapest, but just coudn't get them to send one
> > to my country. Damned paranoid USA policies. We even have an FTA (free trade
> > agreement) with you, you idiots!
> > Sorry for the outrage, I just quit my job 2 minutes ago...
> >
> > Regards,
> > Michael K.
> >
> > --- In m...@yahoogroups.com, Henry Liu
> > >
> > > Roving networks RN41. $25 at mouser/digikey.
> > >
> > > On Fri, Nov 20, 2009 at 1:37 PM, Jim Carlson
> > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Does anyone have a recommendation for adding Bluetooth to a MSP430
> > handheld
> > > > unit? I have a spi bus that I would like to use as the interface.
> > > >
> > > > Thanks
> > > >
> > > > Jim
> > > >
> > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------------
> >
> >
> >
> >
(You need to be a member of msp430 -- send a blank email to msp430-subscribe@yahoogroups.com )
Re: Re: Bluetooth - Henry Liu - Nov 23 14:14:31 2009
I don't know why you'd want an SPI bus instead of a UART for wireless serial
communications.
SPI has no handshaking. Bluetooth serial data gets lost for sure without
handshaking.
There's probably SPI to Uart devices out there or you can just put another
MSP430 in.
The RN41 can set the buad rate at 1mbps but effective transmission rate is
only 300kbps max I'm told by their support engineers after the error
correction/buffers/etc and you need hardware flow control over 115k.
On Mon, Nov 23, 2009 at 7:22 AM, Michael wrote:
> On the RN41 the uart (as well as the virtual COM port) can be used for
> configuring the device (baudrate, bluetooth clasification, device name,
> operating mode, etc), but the SPI is for programming, as in flashing, the
> device.
>
> Regards,
> Michael K.
>
> P.D.: I appologise if this mail gets you twice, but I didn't get a
> confirmation after pressing 'send' on the Y!G web composer. And did not find
> a new post on this tread.
> --- In m...@yahoogroups.com, John Luciani
> wrote:
> >
> > I have used the BlueGiga WT12A which is also SPI for programming and UART
> > for communications.
> > Some programming can be done through the UART as well. I am not sure the
> > function overlap between
> > the two ports.
> >
> > (* jcl *)
> >
> > On Mon, Nov 23, 2009 at 9:54 AM, Michael wrote:
> >
> > > But the RN41 module's SPI inteface is for programming only; you can't
> use
> > > it for transferring data over bluetooth (which would have been great).
> At
> > > least that's what I got from the datasheet (I'm toddling with one).
> > > However, you can achieve a quite high uart speed (I think it is about
> > > 1Mbit).
> > > I'd too appreciate suggestions on Bluetooth modules. Digikey has a few.
> I
> > > think the RN41 was among the cheapest, but just coudn't get them to
> send one
> > > to my country. Damned paranoid USA policies. We even have an FTA (free
> trade
> > > agreement) with you, you idiots!
> > > Sorry for the outrage, I just quit my job 2 minutes ago...
> > >
> > > Regards,
> > > Michael K.
> > >
> > > --- In m...@yahoogroups.com, Henry Liu
> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Roving networks RN41. $25 at mouser/digikey.
> > > >
> > > > On Fri, Nov 20, 2009 at 1:37 PM, Jim Carlsonwrote:
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Does anyone have a recommendation for adding Bluetooth to a MSP430
> > > handheld
> > > > > unit? I have a spi bus that I would like to use as the interface.
> > > > >
> > > > > Thanks
> > > > >
> > > > > Jim
> > > > >
> > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ------------------------------------
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
______________________________
controlSUITE™ software. Comprehensive. Intuitive. Optimized.
Real-world software for real-time control. Details Here!
(You need to be a member of msp430 -- send a blank email to msp430-subscribe@yahoogroups.com )
communications.
SPI has no handshaking. Bluetooth serial data gets lost for sure without
handshaking.
There's probably SPI to Uart devices out there or you can just put another
MSP430 in.
The RN41 can set the buad rate at 1mbps but effective transmission rate is
only 300kbps max I'm told by their support engineers after the error
correction/buffers/etc and you need hardware flow control over 115k.
On Mon, Nov 23, 2009 at 7:22 AM, Michael
> On the RN41 the uart (as well as the virtual COM port) can be used for
> configuring the device (baudrate, bluetooth clasification, device name,
> operating mode, etc), but the SPI is for programming, as in flashing, the
> device.
>
> Regards,
> Michael K.
>
> P.D.: I appologise if this mail gets you twice, but I didn't get a
> confirmation after pressing 'send' on the Y!G web composer. And did not find
> a new post on this tread.
> --- In m...@yahoogroups.com
>
> >
> > I have used the BlueGiga WT12A which is also SPI for programming and UART
> > for communications.
> > Some programming can be done through the UART as well. I am not sure the
> > function overlap between
> > the two ports.
> >
> > (* jcl *)
> >
> > On Mon, Nov 23, 2009 at 9:54 AM, Michael
> >
> > > But the RN41 module's SPI inteface is for programming only; you can't
> use
> > > it for transferring data over bluetooth (which would have been great).
> At
> > > least that's what I got from the datasheet (I'm toddling with one).
> > > However, you can achieve a quite high uart speed (I think it is about
> > > 1Mbit).
> > > I'd too appreciate suggestions on Bluetooth modules. Digikey has a few.
> I
> > > think the RN41 was among the cheapest, but just coudn't get them to
> send one
> > > to my country. Damned paranoid USA policies. We even have an FTA (free
> trade
> > > agreement) with you, you idiots!
> > > Sorry for the outrage, I just quit my job 2 minutes ago...
> > >
> > > Regards,
> > > Michael K.
> > >
> > > --- In m...@yahoogroups.com
>
> > > >
> > > > Roving networks RN41. $25 at mouser/digikey.
> > > >
> > > > On Fri, Nov 20, 2009 at 1:37 PM, Jim Carlson
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Does anyone have a recommendation for adding Bluetooth to a MSP430
> > > handheld
> > > > > unit? I have a spi bus that I would like to use as the interface.
> > > > >
> > > > > Thanks
> > > > >
> > > > > Jim
> > > > >
> > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ------------------------------------
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
______________________________
controlSUITE™ software. Comprehensive. Intuitive. Optimized.
Real-world software for real-time control. Details Here!
(You need to be a member of msp430 -- send a blank email to msp430-subscribe@yahoogroups.com )
Re: Bluetooth - Michael - Nov 23 15:06:54 2009
Henry,
I have no idea what you're talking about, or for that matter neither do you?
> I don't know why you'd want an SPI bus instead of a UART for
> wireless serial communications.
The same reason I want SPI bus instead of UART on any other chip I connect to the MSP430. A few benefits:
- Higher speed (up to SMCLK/2 which translates to up to 4Mbps on the 1xx family)
- Synchronous transfers at any bitrate the master decides upon.
- Shared bus. Only one communication interface for all the chips I want to conect to the MSP (done it many times).
- Master/Slave: the MSP controls when each communication takes place.
Simply put, SPI is an onboard interface (chip to chip), while UART is mainly used for inter-equipment interface (PC to mouse).
But first things first: we're talking about the interface between the MSP and the bluetooth chip, not the wireless communication, which by the way is neither.
> SPI has no handshaking. Bluetooth serial data gets lost for sure
> without handshaking.
Just what the hell are you talking about? There is no relationship between Bluetooth and SPI. Not any. Nor between bluetooth and uart. The WIRELESS communications IS BLUETOOTH!!!
> There's probably SPI to Uart devices out there or you can just put
> another MSP430 in.
Another blind shot. You're totally missing the point. I can only guess you've never used SPI, ever. Nor have you ever needed to decide wether to go SPI or UART.
> The RN41 can set the buad rate at 1mbps but effective transmission
> rate is only 300kbps max I'm told by their support engineers after
> the error correction/buffers/etc and you need hardware flow control
> over 115k.
Sounds logical, since it must have input/output buffers to store the data, like any other transceiver chip that interfaces different protocols with different transfer rates.
You are blindly citing what you were told without knowing what it means. Do you even know why one would want a 1Mbps (capital M) baud rate even if the maximum effective transfer rate is 300kbps?
You should really keep from blindly shooting your opinion against a post about things you don't know the littlest bit about. Had you taken a little time to instruct yourself on what Bluetooth is and how it works, and what UART and SPI are, you woudn't have written any of this.
I wonder how you think a USB to UART chip works...
It's better to shut up and be taken for a fool, than to open your mouth and confirm it.
Michael K.
--- In m...@yahoogroups.com, Henry Liu wrote:
>
> I don't know why you'd want an SPI bus instead of a UART for wireless serial
> communications.
>
> SPI has no handshaking. Bluetooth serial data gets lost for sure without
> handshaking.
>
> There's probably SPI to Uart devices out there or you can just put another
> MSP430 in.
>
> The RN41 can set the buad rate at 1mbps but effective transmission rate is
> only 300kbps max I'm told by their support engineers after the error
> correction/buffers/etc and you need hardware flow control over 115k.
>
> On Mon, Nov 23, 2009 at 7:22 AM, Michael wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > On the RN41 the uart (as well as the virtual COM port) can be used for
> > configuring the device (baudrate, bluetooth clasification, device name,
> > operating mode, etc), but the SPI is for programming, as in flashing, the
> > device.
> >
> > Regards,
> > Michael K.
> >
> > P.D.: I appologise if this mail gets you twice, but I didn't get a
> > confirmation after pressing 'send' on the Y!G web composer. And did not find
> > a new post on this tread.
> >
> >
> > --- In m...@yahoogroups.com, John Luciani
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > I have used the BlueGiga WT12A which is also SPI for programming and UART
> > > for communications.
> > > Some programming can be done through the UART as well. I am not sure the
> > > function overlap between
> > > the two ports.
> > >
> > > (* jcl *)
> > >
> > > On Mon, Nov 23, 2009 at 9:54 AM, Michael wrote:
> > >
> > > > But the RN41 module's SPI inteface is for programming only; you can't
> > use
> > > > it for transferring data over bluetooth (which would have been great).
> > At
> > > > least that's what I got from the datasheet (I'm toddling with one).
> > > > However, you can achieve a quite high uart speed (I think it is about
> > > > 1Mbit).
> > > > I'd too appreciate suggestions on Bluetooth modules. Digikey has a few.
> > I
> > > > think the RN41 was among the cheapest, but just coudn't get them to
> > send one
> > > > to my country. Damned paranoid USA policies. We even have an FTA (free
> > trade
> > > > agreement) with you, you idiots!
> > > > Sorry for the outrage, I just quit my job 2 minutes ago...
> > > >
> > > > Regards,
> > > > Michael K.
> > > >
> > > > --- In m...@yahoogroups.com, Henry Liu
> > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Roving networks RN41. $25 at mouser/digikey.
> > > > >
> > > > > On Fri, Nov 20, 2009 at 1:37 PM, Jim Carlsonwrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Does anyone have a recommendation for adding Bluetooth to a MSP430
> > > > handheld
> > > > > > unit? I have a spi bus that I would like to use as the interface.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Thanks
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Jim
> > > > > >
> > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ------------------------------------
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
(You need to be a member of msp430 -- send a blank email to msp430-subscribe@yahoogroups.com )
I have no idea what you're talking about, or for that matter neither do you?
> I don't know why you'd want an SPI bus instead of a UART for
> wireless serial communications.
The same reason I want SPI bus instead of UART on any other chip I connect to the MSP430. A few benefits:
- Higher speed (up to SMCLK/2 which translates to up to 4Mbps on the 1xx family)
- Synchronous transfers at any bitrate the master decides upon.
- Shared bus. Only one communication interface for all the chips I want to conect to the MSP (done it many times).
- Master/Slave: the MSP controls when each communication takes place.
Simply put, SPI is an onboard interface (chip to chip), while UART is mainly used for inter-equipment interface (PC to mouse).
But first things first: we're talking about the interface between the MSP and the bluetooth chip, not the wireless communication, which by the way is neither.
> SPI has no handshaking. Bluetooth serial data gets lost for sure
> without handshaking.
Just what the hell are you talking about? There is no relationship between Bluetooth and SPI. Not any. Nor between bluetooth and uart. The WIRELESS communications IS BLUETOOTH!!!
> There's probably SPI to Uart devices out there or you can just put
> another MSP430 in.
Another blind shot. You're totally missing the point. I can only guess you've never used SPI, ever. Nor have you ever needed to decide wether to go SPI or UART.
> The RN41 can set the buad rate at 1mbps but effective transmission
> rate is only 300kbps max I'm told by their support engineers after
> the error correction/buffers/etc and you need hardware flow control
> over 115k.
Sounds logical, since it must have input/output buffers to store the data, like any other transceiver chip that interfaces different protocols with different transfer rates.
You are blindly citing what you were told without knowing what it means. Do you even know why one would want a 1Mbps (capital M) baud rate even if the maximum effective transfer rate is 300kbps?
You should really keep from blindly shooting your opinion against a post about things you don't know the littlest bit about. Had you taken a little time to instruct yourself on what Bluetooth is and how it works, and what UART and SPI are, you woudn't have written any of this.
I wonder how you think a USB to UART chip works...
It's better to shut up and be taken for a fool, than to open your mouth and confirm it.
Michael K.
--- In m...@yahoogroups.com, Henry Liu
>
> I don't know why you'd want an SPI bus instead of a UART for wireless serial
> communications.
>
> SPI has no handshaking. Bluetooth serial data gets lost for sure without
> handshaking.
>
> There's probably SPI to Uart devices out there or you can just put another
> MSP430 in.
>
> The RN41 can set the buad rate at 1mbps but effective transmission rate is
> only 300kbps max I'm told by their support engineers after the error
> correction/buffers/etc and you need hardware flow control over 115k.
>
> On Mon, Nov 23, 2009 at 7:22 AM, Michael
>
> >
> >
> > On the RN41 the uart (as well as the virtual COM port) can be used for
> > configuring the device (baudrate, bluetooth clasification, device name,
> > operating mode, etc), but the SPI is for programming, as in flashing, the
> > device.
> >
> > Regards,
> > Michael K.
> >
> > P.D.: I appologise if this mail gets you twice, but I didn't get a
> > confirmation after pressing 'send' on the Y!G web composer. And did not find
> > a new post on this tread.
> >
> >
> > --- In m...@yahoogroups.com
> >
> > >
> > > I have used the BlueGiga WT12A which is also SPI for programming and UART
> > > for communications.
> > > Some programming can be done through the UART as well. I am not sure the
> > > function overlap between
> > > the two ports.
> > >
> > > (* jcl *)
> > >
> > > On Mon, Nov 23, 2009 at 9:54 AM, Michael
> > >
> > > > But the RN41 module's SPI inteface is for programming only; you can't
> > use
> > > > it for transferring data over bluetooth (which would have been great).
> > At
> > > > least that's what I got from the datasheet (I'm toddling with one).
> > > > However, you can achieve a quite high uart speed (I think it is about
> > > > 1Mbit).
> > > > I'd too appreciate suggestions on Bluetooth modules. Digikey has a few.
> > I
> > > > think the RN41 was among the cheapest, but just coudn't get them to
> > send one
> > > > to my country. Damned paranoid USA policies. We even have an FTA (free
> > trade
> > > > agreement) with you, you idiots!
> > > > Sorry for the outrage, I just quit my job 2 minutes ago...
> > > >
> > > > Regards,
> > > > Michael K.
> > > >
> > > > --- In m...@yahoogroups.com
> >
> > > > >
> > > > > Roving networks RN41. $25 at mouser/digikey.
> > > > >
> > > > > On Fri, Nov 20, 2009 at 1:37 PM, Jim Carlson
> > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Does anyone have a recommendation for adding Bluetooth to a MSP430
> > > > handheld
> > > > > > unit? I have a spi bus that I would like to use as the interface.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Thanks
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Jim
> > > > > >
> > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ------------------------------------
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
(You need to be a member of msp430 -- send a blank email to msp430-subscribe@yahoogroups.com )
Re: Re: Bluetooth - microbit_ubuntu_9101 - Nov 23 15:47:35 2009
Hi Michael/Henry,
> It's better to shut up and be taken for a fool, than to open your
> mouth and confirm it.
Wise words, and since you clarified things a bit for Henry (hopefully,
if taken on constructively), I thought I'd post after all about a
specific argument wrt SPI that bugged me :
> SPI has no handshaking. Bluetooth serial data gets lost for sure
> without handshaking.
Well, technically speaking, nor does NRZ (like a UART) for that matter.
Or - conversely - SPI can implement handshaking just as a 'serial' does anyway.
The traditional view of a full RS232 uses the handshaking such as RTS/CTS at logic level.
Nothing would stop you from using an RTS/CTS scheme with SPI !
Your quote about data rates > 115 kbps seems to demonstrate a misapprehension at fundamental
level. Even if you were to use UART, handshaking can only compensate for data loss proportional
to the ratio of buffer depth and "excess" traffic.
IOW, even with handshaking, if the RX side isn't gobbling up the data fast enough to keep pace
with the TX side, the data buffer will eventually fill up (and overflow).
This implies the presence of resources for buffer space in any case, thus there's no reason the buffering
couldn't provide a mechanism of handshaking for SPI as well.
I think the common denominator might be that some programmers will be used to excessive abstraction
and therefore use the model of an asynchronous serial that implements all handshaking in HW, transparent
to the user.
But many embedded MCUs will only provide an RX/TX line as U(S)ART. The moment the decision
is made to write your own code to handle buffer/handshaking, it could just as well be done with SPI.
In actual fact - like Michael underscored - it's a hell lot easier to work with and process synchronous
data !
This is conjecture, but the kind of syndrome Michael described seems to be typical of some
PC-only programmers, having worked at too high a level (and used to the perception of "endless resources").
Hope this helps Henry,
B rgds
Kris
On Mon, 2009-11-23 at 20:06 +0000, Michael wrote:
> Henry,
> I have no idea what you're talking about, or for that matter neither do you?
>
> > I don't know why you'd want an SPI bus instead of a UART for
> > wireless serial communications.
> The same reason I want SPI bus instead of UART on any other chip I connect to the MSP430. A few benefits:
> - Higher speed (up to SMCLK/2 which translates to up to 4Mbps on the 1xx family)
> - Synchronous transfers at any bitrate the master decides upon.
> - Shared bus. Only one communication interface for all the chips I want to conect to the MSP (done it many times).
> - Master/Slave: the MSP controls when each communication takes place.
> Simply put, SPI is an onboard interface (chip to chip), while UART is mainly used for inter-equipment interface (PC to mouse).
>
> But first things first: we're talking about the interface between the MSP and the bluetooth chip, not the wireless communication, which by the way is neither.
>
> > SPI has no handshaking. Bluetooth serial data gets lost for sure
> > without handshaking.
> Just what the hell are you talking about? There is no relationship between Bluetooth and SPI. Not any. Nor between bluetooth and uart. The WIRELESS communications IS BLUETOOTH!!!
>
> > There's probably SPI to Uart devices out there or you can just put
> > another MSP430 in.
> Another blind shot. You're totally missing the point. I can only guess you've never used SPI, ever. Nor have you ever needed to decide wether to go SPI or UART.
>
> > The RN41 can set the buad rate at 1mbps but effective transmission
> > rate is only 300kbps max I'm told by their support engineers after
> > the error correction/buffers/etc and you need hardware flow control
> > over 115k.
> Sounds logical, since it must have input/output buffers to store the data, like any other transceiver chip that interfaces different protocols with different transfer rates.
> You are blindly citing what you were told without knowing what it means. Do you even know why one would want a 1Mbps (capital M) baud rate even if the maximum effective transfer rate is 300kbps?
>
> You should really keep from blindly shooting your opinion against a post about things you don't know the littlest bit about. Had you taken a little time to instruct yourself on what Bluetooth is and how it works, and what UART and SPI are, you woudn't have written any of this.
> I wonder how you think a USB to UART chip works...
>
> It's better to shut up and be taken for a fool, than to open your mouth and confirm it.
>
> Michael K.
>
> --- In m...@yahoogroups.com, Henry Liu wrote:
> >
> > I don't know why you'd want an SPI bus instead of a UART for wireless serial
> > communications.
> >
> > SPI has no handshaking. Bluetooth serial data gets lost for sure without
> > handshaking.
> >
> > There's probably SPI to Uart devices out there or you can just put another
> > MSP430 in.
> >
> > The RN41 can set the buad rate at 1mbps but effective transmission rate is
> > only 300kbps max I'm told by their support engineers after the error
> > correction/buffers/etc and you need hardware flow control over 115k.
> >
> > On Mon, Nov 23, 2009 at 7:22 AM, Michael wrote:
> >
> > >
> > >
> > > On the RN41 the uart (as well as the virtual COM port) can be used for
> > > configuring the device (baudrate, bluetooth clasification, device name,
> > > operating mode, etc), but the SPI is for programming, as in flashing, the
> > > device.
> > >
> > > Regards,
> > > Michael K.
> > >
> > > P.D.: I appologise if this mail gets you twice, but I didn't get a
> > > confirmation after pressing 'send' on the Y!G web composer. And did not find
> > > a new post on this tread.
> > >
> > >
> > > --- In m...@yahoogroups.com, John Luciani
> > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > I have used the BlueGiga WT12A which is also SPI for programming and UART
> > > > for communications.
> > > > Some programming can be done through the UART as well. I am not sure the
> > > > function overlap between
> > > > the two ports.
> > > >
> > > > (* jcl *)
> > > >
> > > > On Mon, Nov 23, 2009 at 9:54 AM, Michael wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > But the RN41 module's SPI inteface is for programming only; you can't
> > > use
> > > > > it for transferring data over bluetooth (which would have been great).
> > > At
> > > > > least that's what I got from the datasheet (I'm toddling with one).
> > > > > However, you can achieve a quite high uart speed (I think it is about
> > > > > 1Mbit).
> > > > > I'd too appreciate suggestions on Bluetooth modules. Digikey has a few.
> > > I
> > > > > think the RN41 was among the cheapest, but just coudn't get them to
> > > send one
> > > > > to my country. Damned paranoid USA policies. We even have an FTA (free
> > > trade
> > > > > agreement) with you, you idiots!
> > > > > Sorry for the outrage, I just quit my job 2 minutes ago...
> > > > >
> > > > > Regards,
> > > > > Michael K.
> > > > >
> > > > > --- In m...@yahoogroups.com, Henry Liu
> > > wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Roving networks RN41. $25 at mouser/digikey.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > On Fri, Nov 20, 2009 at 1:37 PM, Jim Carlsonwrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Does anyone have a recommendation for adding Bluetooth to a MSP430
> > > > > handheld
> > > > > > > unit? I have a spi bus that I would like to use as the interface.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Thanks
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Jim
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > ------------------------------------
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
(You need to be a member of msp430 -- send a blank email to msp430-subscribe@yahoogroups.com )
> It's better to shut up and be taken for a fool, than to open your
> mouth and confirm it.
Wise words, and since you clarified things a bit for Henry (hopefully,
if taken on constructively), I thought I'd post after all about a
specific argument wrt SPI that bugged me :
> SPI has no handshaking. Bluetooth serial data gets lost for sure
> without handshaking.
Well, technically speaking, nor does NRZ (like a UART) for that matter.
Or - conversely - SPI can implement handshaking just as a 'serial' does anyway.
The traditional view of a full RS232 uses the handshaking such as RTS/CTS at logic level.
Nothing would stop you from using an RTS/CTS scheme with SPI !
Your quote about data rates > 115 kbps seems to demonstrate a misapprehension at fundamental
level. Even if you were to use UART, handshaking can only compensate for data loss proportional
to the ratio of buffer depth and "excess" traffic.
IOW, even with handshaking, if the RX side isn't gobbling up the data fast enough to keep pace
with the TX side, the data buffer will eventually fill up (and overflow).
This implies the presence of resources for buffer space in any case, thus there's no reason the buffering
couldn't provide a mechanism of handshaking for SPI as well.
I think the common denominator might be that some programmers will be used to excessive abstraction
and therefore use the model of an asynchronous serial that implements all handshaking in HW, transparent
to the user.
But many embedded MCUs will only provide an RX/TX line as U(S)ART. The moment the decision
is made to write your own code to handle buffer/handshaking, it could just as well be done with SPI.
In actual fact - like Michael underscored - it's a hell lot easier to work with and process synchronous
data !
This is conjecture, but the kind of syndrome Michael described seems to be typical of some
PC-only programmers, having worked at too high a level (and used to the perception of "endless resources").
Hope this helps Henry,
B rgds
Kris
On Mon, 2009-11-23 at 20:06 +0000, Michael wrote:
> Henry,
> I have no idea what you're talking about, or for that matter neither do you?
>
> > I don't know why you'd want an SPI bus instead of a UART for
> > wireless serial communications.
> The same reason I want SPI bus instead of UART on any other chip I connect to the MSP430. A few benefits:
> - Higher speed (up to SMCLK/2 which translates to up to 4Mbps on the 1xx family)
> - Synchronous transfers at any bitrate the master decides upon.
> - Shared bus. Only one communication interface for all the chips I want to conect to the MSP (done it many times).
> - Master/Slave: the MSP controls when each communication takes place.
> Simply put, SPI is an onboard interface (chip to chip), while UART is mainly used for inter-equipment interface (PC to mouse).
>
> But first things first: we're talking about the interface between the MSP and the bluetooth chip, not the wireless communication, which by the way is neither.
>
> > SPI has no handshaking. Bluetooth serial data gets lost for sure
> > without handshaking.
> Just what the hell are you talking about? There is no relationship between Bluetooth and SPI. Not any. Nor between bluetooth and uart. The WIRELESS communications IS BLUETOOTH!!!
>
> > There's probably SPI to Uart devices out there or you can just put
> > another MSP430 in.
> Another blind shot. You're totally missing the point. I can only guess you've never used SPI, ever. Nor have you ever needed to decide wether to go SPI or UART.
>
> > The RN41 can set the buad rate at 1mbps but effective transmission
> > rate is only 300kbps max I'm told by their support engineers after
> > the error correction/buffers/etc and you need hardware flow control
> > over 115k.
> Sounds logical, since it must have input/output buffers to store the data, like any other transceiver chip that interfaces different protocols with different transfer rates.
> You are blindly citing what you were told without knowing what it means. Do you even know why one would want a 1Mbps (capital M) baud rate even if the maximum effective transfer rate is 300kbps?
>
> You should really keep from blindly shooting your opinion against a post about things you don't know the littlest bit about. Had you taken a little time to instruct yourself on what Bluetooth is and how it works, and what UART and SPI are, you woudn't have written any of this.
> I wonder how you think a USB to UART chip works...
>
> It's better to shut up and be taken for a fool, than to open your mouth and confirm it.
>
> Michael K.
>
> --- In m...@yahoogroups.com, Henry Liu
> >
> > I don't know why you'd want an SPI bus instead of a UART for wireless serial
> > communications.
> >
> > SPI has no handshaking. Bluetooth serial data gets lost for sure without
> > handshaking.
> >
> > There's probably SPI to Uart devices out there or you can just put another
> > MSP430 in.
> >
> > The RN41 can set the buad rate at 1mbps but effective transmission rate is
> > only 300kbps max I'm told by their support engineers after the error
> > correction/buffers/etc and you need hardware flow control over 115k.
> >
> > On Mon, Nov 23, 2009 at 7:22 AM, Michael
> >
> > >
> > >
> > > On the RN41 the uart (as well as the virtual COM port) can be used for
> > > configuring the device (baudrate, bluetooth clasification, device name,
> > > operating mode, etc), but the SPI is for programming, as in flashing, the
> > > device.
> > >
> > > Regards,
> > > Michael K.
> > >
> > > P.D.: I appologise if this mail gets you twice, but I didn't get a
> > > confirmation after pressing 'send' on the Y!G web composer. And did not find
> > > a new post on this tread.
> > >
> > >
> > > --- In m...@yahoogroups.com
> > >
> > > >
> > > > I have used the BlueGiga WT12A which is also SPI for programming and UART
> > > > for communications.
> > > > Some programming can be done through the UART as well. I am not sure the
> > > > function overlap between
> > > > the two ports.
> > > >
> > > > (* jcl *)
> > > >
> > > > On Mon, Nov 23, 2009 at 9:54 AM, Michael
> > > >
> > > > > But the RN41 module's SPI inteface is for programming only; you can't
> > > use
> > > > > it for transferring data over bluetooth (which would have been great).
> > > At
> > > > > least that's what I got from the datasheet (I'm toddling with one).
> > > > > However, you can achieve a quite high uart speed (I think it is about
> > > > > 1Mbit).
> > > > > I'd too appreciate suggestions on Bluetooth modules. Digikey has a few.
> > > I
> > > > > think the RN41 was among the cheapest, but just coudn't get them to
> > > send one
> > > > > to my country. Damned paranoid USA policies. We even have an FTA (free
> > > trade
> > > > > agreement) with you, you idiots!
> > > > > Sorry for the outrage, I just quit my job 2 minutes ago...
> > > > >
> > > > > Regards,
> > > > > Michael K.
> > > > >
> > > > > --- In m...@yahoogroups.com
> > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Roving networks RN41. $25 at mouser/digikey.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > On Fri, Nov 20, 2009 at 1:37 PM, Jim Carlson
> > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Does anyone have a recommendation for adding Bluetooth to a MSP430
> > > > > handheld
> > > > > > > unit? I have a spi bus that I would like to use as the interface.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Thanks
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Jim
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > ------------------------------------
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
(You need to be a member of msp430 -- send a blank email to msp430-subscribe@yahoogroups.com )
Re: Re: Bluetooth - Henry Liu - Nov 23 16:12:50 2009
Michael,
When you ask for free advice then you get what you pay for.
Read my message more carefully to understand it before you make comments
that make you look bad.
Yes it should be obvious that there are two communication protocols. That
between the MSP and the RN41 and between the RN41 and the host bluetooth
device. What I was saying is that bluetooth communication is not a perfect
link by any metric so the RN41 must retry/resend data packets. As you
stated there must be limited amount of buffer memory. If you do not have
something like RTS/CTS hardware handshaking then you will fill up ANY
send/receive buffers on the RN41 and your data will get lost. I also simply
stated that normal SPI has no handshaking. Thus if you are smarter than a
fifth grader you can deduce the rest.
Find your own bluetooth solution or make your own bluetooth device.
Obviously not worth my time helping you out.
Henry
On Mon, Nov 23, 2009 at 12:06 PM, Michael wrote:
> Henry,
> I have no idea what you're talking about, or for that matter neither do
> you?
> > I don't know why you'd want an SPI bus instead of a UART for
> > wireless serial communications.
> The same reason I want SPI bus instead of UART on any other chip I connect
> to the MSP430. A few benefits:
> - Higher speed (up to SMCLK/2 which translates to up to 4Mbps on the 1xx
> family)
> - Synchronous transfers at any bitrate the master decides upon.
> - Shared bus. Only one communication interface for all the chips I want to
> conect to the MSP (done it many times).
> - Master/Slave: the MSP controls when each communication takes place.
> Simply put, SPI is an onboard interface (chip to chip), while UART is
> mainly used for inter-equipment interface (PC to mouse).
>
> But first things first: we're talking about the interface between the MSP
> and the bluetooth chip, not the wireless communication, which by the way is
> neither.
> > SPI has no handshaking. Bluetooth serial data gets lost for sure
> > without handshaking.
> Just what the hell are you talking about? There is no relationship between
> Bluetooth and SPI. Not any. Nor between bluetooth and uart. The WIRELESS
> communications IS BLUETOOTH!!!
> > There's probably SPI to Uart devices out there or you can just put
> > another MSP430 in.
> Another blind shot. You're totally missing the point. I can only guess
> you've never used SPI, ever. Nor have you ever needed to decide wether to go
> SPI or UART.
> > The RN41 can set the buad rate at 1mbps but effective transmission
> > rate is only 300kbps max I'm told by their support engineers after
> > the error correction/buffers/etc and you need hardware flow control
> > over 115k.
> Sounds logical, since it must have input/output buffers to store the data,
> like any other transceiver chip that interfaces different protocols with
> different transfer rates.
> You are blindly citing what you were told without knowing what it means. Do
> you even know why one would want a 1Mbps (capital M) baud rate even if the
> maximum effective transfer rate is 300kbps?
>
> You should really keep from blindly shooting your opinion against a post
> about things you don't know the littlest bit about. Had you taken a little
> time to instruct yourself on what Bluetooth is and how it works, and what
> UART and SPI are, you woudn't have written any of this.
> I wonder how you think a USB to UART chip works...
>
> It's better to shut up and be taken for a fool, than to open your mouth and
> confirm it.
>
> Michael K.
>
> --- In m...@yahoogroups.com, Henry Liu
> wrote:
> >
> > I don't know why you'd want an SPI bus instead of a UART for wireless
> serial
> > communications.
> >
> > SPI has no handshaking. Bluetooth serial data gets lost for sure without
> > handshaking.
> >
> > There's probably SPI to Uart devices out there or you can just put
> another
> > MSP430 in.
> >
> > The RN41 can set the buad rate at 1mbps but effective transmission rate
> is
> > only 300kbps max I'm told by their support engineers after the error
> > correction/buffers/etc and you need hardware flow control over 115k.
> >
> > On Mon, Nov 23, 2009 at 7:22 AM, Michael wrote:
> >
> > >
> > >
> > > On the RN41 the uart (as well as the virtual COM port) can be used for
> > > configuring the device (baudrate, bluetooth clasification, device name,
> > > operating mode, etc), but the SPI is for programming, as in flashing,
> the
> > > device.
> > >
> > > Regards,
> > > Michael K.
> > >
> > > P.D.: I appologise if this mail gets you twice, but I didn't get a
> > > confirmation after pressing 'send' on the Y!G web composer. And did not
> find
> > > a new post on this tread.
> > >
> > >
> > > --- In m...@yahoogroups.com
>
> > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > I have used the BlueGiga WT12A which is also SPI for programming and
> UART
> > > > for communications.
> > > > Some programming can be done through the UART as well. I am not sure
> the
> > > > function overlap between
> > > > the two ports.
> > > >
> > > > (* jcl *)
> > > >
> > > > On Mon, Nov 23, 2009 at 9:54 AM, Michael wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > But the RN41 module's SPI inteface is for programming only; you
> can't
> > > use
> > > > > it for transferring data over bluetooth (which would have been
> great).
> > > At
> > > > > least that's what I got from the datasheet (I'm toddling with one).
> > > > > However, you can achieve a quite high uart speed (I think it is
> about
> > > > > 1Mbit).
> > > > > I'd too appreciate suggestions on Bluetooth modules. Digikey has a
> few.
> > > I
> > > > > think the RN41 was among the cheapest, but just coudn't get them to
> > > send one
> > > > > to my country. Damned paranoid USA policies. We even have an FTA
> (free
> > > trade
> > > > > agreement) with you, you idiots!
> > > > > Sorry for the outrage, I just quit my job 2 minutes ago...
> > > > >
> > > > > Regards,
> > > > > Michael K.
> > > > >
> > > > > --- In m...@yahoogroups.com
>
> > > wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Roving networks RN41. $25 at mouser/digikey.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > On Fri, Nov 20, 2009 at 1:37 PM, Jim Carlson
> > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Does anyone have a recommendation for adding Bluetooth to a
> MSP430
> > > > > handheld
> > > > > > > unit? I have a spi bus that I would like to use as the
> interface.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Thanks
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Jim
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > ------------------------------------
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
(You need to be a member of msp430 -- send a blank email to msp430-subscribe@yahoogroups.com )
When you ask for free advice then you get what you pay for.
Read my message more carefully to understand it before you make comments
that make you look bad.
Yes it should be obvious that there are two communication protocols. That
between the MSP and the RN41 and between the RN41 and the host bluetooth
device. What I was saying is that bluetooth communication is not a perfect
link by any metric so the RN41 must retry/resend data packets. As you
stated there must be limited amount of buffer memory. If you do not have
something like RTS/CTS hardware handshaking then you will fill up ANY
send/receive buffers on the RN41 and your data will get lost. I also simply
stated that normal SPI has no handshaking. Thus if you are smarter than a
fifth grader you can deduce the rest.
Find your own bluetooth solution or make your own bluetooth device.
Obviously not worth my time helping you out.
Henry
On Mon, Nov 23, 2009 at 12:06 PM, Michael
> Henry,
> I have no idea what you're talking about, or for that matter neither do
> you?
> > I don't know why you'd want an SPI bus instead of a UART for
> > wireless serial communications.
> The same reason I want SPI bus instead of UART on any other chip I connect
> to the MSP430. A few benefits:
> - Higher speed (up to SMCLK/2 which translates to up to 4Mbps on the 1xx
> family)
> - Synchronous transfers at any bitrate the master decides upon.
> - Shared bus. Only one communication interface for all the chips I want to
> conect to the MSP (done it many times).
> - Master/Slave: the MSP controls when each communication takes place.
> Simply put, SPI is an onboard interface (chip to chip), while UART is
> mainly used for inter-equipment interface (PC to mouse).
>
> But first things first: we're talking about the interface between the MSP
> and the bluetooth chip, not the wireless communication, which by the way is
> neither.
> > SPI has no handshaking. Bluetooth serial data gets lost for sure
> > without handshaking.
> Just what the hell are you talking about? There is no relationship between
> Bluetooth and SPI. Not any. Nor between bluetooth and uart. The WIRELESS
> communications IS BLUETOOTH!!!
> > There's probably SPI to Uart devices out there or you can just put
> > another MSP430 in.
> Another blind shot. You're totally missing the point. I can only guess
> you've never used SPI, ever. Nor have you ever needed to decide wether to go
> SPI or UART.
> > The RN41 can set the buad rate at 1mbps but effective transmission
> > rate is only 300kbps max I'm told by their support engineers after
> > the error correction/buffers/etc and you need hardware flow control
> > over 115k.
> Sounds logical, since it must have input/output buffers to store the data,
> like any other transceiver chip that interfaces different protocols with
> different transfer rates.
> You are blindly citing what you were told without knowing what it means. Do
> you even know why one would want a 1Mbps (capital M) baud rate even if the
> maximum effective transfer rate is 300kbps?
>
> You should really keep from blindly shooting your opinion against a post
> about things you don't know the littlest bit about. Had you taken a little
> time to instruct yourself on what Bluetooth is and how it works, and what
> UART and SPI are, you woudn't have written any of this.
> I wonder how you think a USB to UART chip works...
>
> It's better to shut up and be taken for a fool, than to open your mouth and
> confirm it.
>
> Michael K.
>
> --- In m...@yahoogroups.com
>
> >
> > I don't know why you'd want an SPI bus instead of a UART for wireless
> serial
> > communications.
> >
> > SPI has no handshaking. Bluetooth serial data gets lost for sure without
> > handshaking.
> >
> > There's probably SPI to Uart devices out there or you can just put
> another
> > MSP430 in.
> >
> > The RN41 can set the buad rate at 1mbps but effective transmission rate
> is
> > only 300kbps max I'm told by their support engineers after the error
> > correction/buffers/etc and you need hardware flow control over 115k.
> >
> > On Mon, Nov 23, 2009 at 7:22 AM, Michael
> >
> > >
> > >
> > > On the RN41 the uart (as well as the virtual COM port) can be used for
> > > configuring the device (baudrate, bluetooth clasification, device name,
> > > operating mode, etc), but the SPI is for programming, as in flashing,
> the
> > > device.
> > >
> > > Regards,
> > > Michael K.
> > >
> > > P.D.: I appologise if this mail gets you twice, but I didn't get a
> > > confirmation after pressing 'send' on the Y!G web composer. And did not
> find
> > > a new post on this tread.
> > >
> > >
> > > --- In m...@yahoogroups.com
>
> > >
> > > >
> > > > I have used the BlueGiga WT12A which is also SPI for programming and
> UART
> > > > for communications.
> > > > Some programming can be done through the UART as well. I am not sure
> the
> > > > function overlap between
> > > > the two ports.
> > > >
> > > > (* jcl *)
> > > >
> > > > On Mon, Nov 23, 2009 at 9:54 AM, Michael
> > > >
> > > > > But the RN41 module's SPI inteface is for programming only; you
> can't
> > > use
> > > > > it for transferring data over bluetooth (which would have been
> great).
> > > At
> > > > > least that's what I got from the datasheet (I'm toddling with one).
> > > > > However, you can achieve a quite high uart speed (I think it is
> about
> > > > > 1Mbit).
> > > > > I'd too appreciate suggestions on Bluetooth modules. Digikey has a
> few.
> > > I
> > > > > think the RN41 was among the cheapest, but just coudn't get them to
> > > send one
> > > > > to my country. Damned paranoid USA policies. We even have an FTA
> (free
> > > trade
> > > > > agreement) with you, you idiots!
> > > > > Sorry for the outrage, I just quit my job 2 minutes ago...
> > > > >
> > > > > Regards,
> > > > > Michael K.
> > > > >
> > > > > --- In m...@yahoogroups.com
>
> > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Roving networks RN41. $25 at mouser/digikey.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > On Fri, Nov 20, 2009 at 1:37 PM, Jim Carlson
> > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Does anyone have a recommendation for adding Bluetooth to a
> MSP430
> > > > > handheld
> > > > > > > unit? I have a spi bus that I would like to use as the
> interface.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Thanks
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Jim
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > ------------------------------------
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
(You need to be a member of msp430 -- send a blank email to msp430-subscribe@yahoogroups.com )
Re: Bluetooth - Michael - Nov 23 17:59:03 2009
Again, you are still talking something about you have no idea, nor have you taken the time
to educate yourself.
> When you ask for free advice then you get what you pay for.
A very sad excuse for contradicting a post without arguments nor knowledge, given the contradiction is wrong.
> Read my message more carefully to understand it before you make
> comments that make you look bad.
I did. In fact it must have taken me about 90 minutes to compose the reply. Your post can't be understood any other way. You don't know what you're writing about.
> Yes it should be obvious that there are two communication
> protocols. That between the MSP and the RN41 and between the RN41
> and the host bluetooth device.
It wasn't according to your previous post and it still isn't according to your current post. You're still mixing problems with transferring data at the bluetooth level with transferring data at the MSP level.
> What I was saying is that bluetooth communication is not a perfect
> link by any metric so the RN41 must retry/resend data packets.
Do you see? Neither the MSP nor the application communicating to the virtual COM has any idea about the RN41 retrying/resending data. That retry/resend is totally transparent to the user, the MSP and the application on the PC. All three see a COM link, regardless if it is a real COM port or a virtual COM, or if it passes through any other kind of link like IrDA, ethernet, Bluetooth, WiFi, USB, 915MHz FSK, or whatever.
> What I was saying is that bluetooth communication is not a perfect
> link by any metric so the RN41 must retry/resend data packets. As
> you stated there must be limited amount of buffer memory. If you
> do not have something like RTS/CTS hardware handshaking then you
> will fill up ANY send/receive buffers on the RN41 and your data
> will get lost.
Again mixing things. What has lost data packets at the bluetooth level to do with RTS/CTS? Nothing. And have you ever heard of flow control? like in software flow control? Xon/Xoff?
If you had used any transceiver with SPI interface, like the CC110x often discussed on this forum, you'd know the infinite benefits of a properly implemented SPI interface, which gives you access to any number of internal control and status registers.
> I also simply stated that normal SPI has no handshaking. Thus if
> you are smarter than a fifth grader you can deduce the rest.
Do you even know how RTS/CTS works? do you what it stands for? Do you know it only works for one end of the RS-232 link? Surprised?
And have you EVER used an SPI slave? any device you can mention? What do you consider "normal handshaking"? Have you EVER used a chip with an SPI interface? They all (all I have used at least) provide ways to know if the chip and/or any of its buffer has data or is full. There are even maskable interrupts. Knew about them? You're still writing like the only thing you have ever known about SPI is exclusively what can be found in the MSP datasheet. Take a walk in the real world and look at the datasheet of some SPI slaves. And then tell me what their "handshake" problems are. I dare you.
There are so many ways of using SPI with what you call handshaking... All you need to do is know how much bytes there are in the TX and RX buffer, and you don't need any extra IOs for that. But for that matter you *could* also do that with uart in a more complicated way.
> Obviously not worth my time helping you out.
No one asked for *your* help. I merely posted the problems I had with the RN41 having only an UART interface for communication and I asked about bluetooth modules with SPI interface, and what was YOUR help? Let me quote:
> I don't know why you'd want an SPI bus instead of a UART for
> wireless serial communications.
> SPI has no handshaking. Bluetooth serial data gets lost for sure
> without handshaking.
Exactly how was that helpful to anyone? Not to me, not to the previous poster, not to anyone who will come across this thread. You were in fact wrong. And you still are. Even more than that, your post can only confuse someone that is learning about bluetooth modules, so I don't hesitate to strighten things out.
Had you post all that as a question, my reply would have been very different. The form would have been different, but the content all the same. And since you posted absolute BS as a fact, you get spanked. You're still posting rubbish, you get spanked again. Why don't you stand corrected and educate yourself about slave devices using SPI interface?
If you mindlessly throw your opinion - which isn't based on any knowledge as it shows - against a post, you will get spanked. And I'm not one to be afraid of giving one. I'm not the holder of the thruth, nor am I the most experienced member. I still lack a lot of knowledge in a lot of areas. I've made mistakes on this forum and I've admitted them. But this is not one of those mistakes.
Don't want to get spanked? Educate yourself before you post, don't just throw you what you think may be as if it were a fact. Many times I don't know what someone is asking and take the time to educate myself about that and then reply, sometimes even asking more questions than giving answers.
I invite you to read my previous replies to other threads and realize what kind of person I am. And just so you know, this reply took over one hour too.
Michael K.
--- In m...@yahoogroups.com, Henry Liu wrote:
>
> Michael,
> When you ask for free advice then you get what you pay for.
>
> Read my message more carefully to understand it before you make comments
> that make you look bad.
>
> Yes it should be obvious that there are two communication protocols. That
> between the MSP and the RN41 and between the RN41 and the host bluetooth
> device. What I was saying is that bluetooth communication is not a perfect
> link by any metric so the RN41 must retry/resend data packets. As you
> stated there must be limited amount of buffer memory. If you do not have
> something like RTS/CTS hardware handshaking then you will fill up ANY
> send/receive buffers on the RN41 and your data will get lost. I also simply
> stated that normal SPI has no handshaking. Thus if you are smarter than a
> fifth grader you can deduce the rest.
>
> Find your own bluetooth solution or make your own bluetooth device.
>
> Obviously not worth my time helping you out.
>
> Henry
>
> On Mon, Nov 23, 2009 at 12:06 PM, Michael wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > Henry,
> > I have no idea what you're talking about, or for that matter neither do
> > you?
> >
> >
> > > I don't know why you'd want an SPI bus instead of a UART for
> > > wireless serial communications.
> > The same reason I want SPI bus instead of UART on any other chip I connect
> > to the MSP430. A few benefits:
> > - Higher speed (up to SMCLK/2 which translates to up to 4Mbps on the 1xx
> > family)
> > - Synchronous transfers at any bitrate the master decides upon.
> > - Shared bus. Only one communication interface for all the chips I want to
> > conect to the MSP (done it many times).
> > - Master/Slave: the MSP controls when each communication takes place.
> > Simply put, SPI is an onboard interface (chip to chip), while UART is
> > mainly used for inter-equipment interface (PC to mouse).
> >
> > But first things first: we're talking about the interface between the MSP
> > and the bluetooth chip, not the wireless communication, which by the way is
> > neither.
> >
> >
> > > SPI has no handshaking. Bluetooth serial data gets lost for sure
> > > without handshaking.
> > Just what the hell are you talking about? There is no relationship between
> > Bluetooth and SPI. Not any. Nor between bluetooth and uart. The WIRELESS
> > communications IS BLUETOOTH!!!
> >
> >
> > > There's probably SPI to Uart devices out there or you can just put
> > > another MSP430 in.
> > Another blind shot. You're totally missing the point. I can only guess
> > you've never used SPI, ever. Nor have you ever needed to decide wether to go
> > SPI or UART.
> >
> >
> > > The RN41 can set the buad rate at 1mbps but effective transmission
> > > rate is only 300kbps max I'm told by their support engineers after
> > > the error correction/buffers/etc and you need hardware flow control
> > > over 115k.
> > Sounds logical, since it must have input/output buffers to store the data,
> > like any other transceiver chip that interfaces different protocols with
> > different transfer rates.
> > You are blindly citing what you were told without knowing what it means. Do
> > you even know why one would want a 1Mbps (capital M) baud rate even if the
> > maximum effective transfer rate is 300kbps?
> >
> > You should really keep from blindly shooting your opinion against a post
> > about things you don't know the littlest bit about. Had you taken a little
> > time to instruct yourself on what Bluetooth is and how it works, and what
> > UART and SPI are, you woudn't have written any of this.
> > I wonder how you think a USB to UART chip works...
> >
> > It's better to shut up and be taken for a fool, than to open your mouth and
> > confirm it.
> >
> > Michael K.
> >
> > --- In m...@yahoogroups.com, Henry Liu
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > I don't know why you'd want an SPI bus instead of a UART for wireless
> > serial
> > > communications.
> > >
> > > SPI has no handshaking. Bluetooth serial data gets lost for sure without
> > > handshaking.
> > >
> > > There's probably SPI to Uart devices out there or you can just put
> > another
> > > MSP430 in.
> > >
> > > The RN41 can set the buad rate at 1mbps but effective transmission rate
> > is
> > > only 300kbps max I'm told by their support engineers after the error
> > > correction/buffers/etc and you need hardware flow control over 115k.
> > >
> > > On Mon, Nov 23, 2009 at 7:22 AM, Michael wrote:
> > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On the RN41 the uart (as well as the virtual COM port) can be used for
> > > > configuring the device (baudrate, bluetooth clasification, device name,
> > > > operating mode, etc), but the SPI is for programming, as in flashing,
> > the
> > > > device.
> > > >
> > > > Regards,
> > > > Michael K.
> > > >
> > > > P.D.: I appologise if this mail gets you twice, but I didn't get a
> > > > confirmation after pressing 'send' on the Y!G web composer. And did not
> > find
> > > > a new post on this tread.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --- In m...@yahoogroups.com
> >
> > > > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > I have used the BlueGiga WT12A which is also SPI for programming and
> > UART
> > > > > for communications.
> > > > > Some programming can be done through the UART as well. I am not sure
> > the
> > > > > function overlap between
> > > > > the two ports.
> > > > >
> > > > > (* jcl *)
> > > > >
> > > > > On Mon, Nov 23, 2009 at 9:54 AM, Michael wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > But the RN41 module's SPI inteface is for programming only; you
> > can't
> > > > use
> > > > > > it for transferring data over bluetooth (which would have been
> > great).
> > > > At
> > > > > > least that's what I got from the datasheet (I'm toddling with one).
> > > > > > However, you can achieve a quite high uart speed (I think it is
> > about
> > > > > > 1Mbit).
> > > > > > I'd too appreciate suggestions on Bluetooth modules. Digikey has a
> > few.
> > > > I
> > > > > > think the RN41 was among the cheapest, but just coudn't get them to
> > > > send one
> > > > > > to my country. Damned paranoid USA policies. We even have an FTA
> > (free
> > > > trade
> > > > > > agreement) with you, you idiots!
> > > > > > Sorry for the outrage, I just quit my job 2 minutes ago...
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Regards,
> > > > > > Michael K.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > --- In m...@yahoogroups.com
> >
> > > > wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Roving networks RN41. $25 at mouser/digikey.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > On Fri, Nov 20, 2009 at 1:37 PM, Jim Carlson
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Does anyone have a recommendation for adding Bluetooth to a
> > MSP430
> > > > > > handheld
> > > > > > > > unit? I have a spi bus that I would like to use as the
> > interface.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Thanks
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Jim
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > ------------------------------------
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
(You need to be a member of msp430 -- send a blank email to msp430-subscribe@yahoogroups.com )
> When you ask for free advice then you get what you pay for.
A very sad excuse for contradicting a post without arguments nor knowledge, given the contradiction is wrong.
> Read my message more carefully to understand it before you make
> comments that make you look bad.
I did. In fact it must have taken me about 90 minutes to compose the reply. Your post can't be understood any other way. You don't know what you're writing about.
> Yes it should be obvious that there are two communication
> protocols. That between the MSP and the RN41 and between the RN41
> and the host bluetooth device.
It wasn't according to your previous post and it still isn't according to your current post. You're still mixing problems with transferring data at the bluetooth level with transferring data at the MSP level.
> What I was saying is that bluetooth communication is not a perfect
> link by any metric so the RN41 must retry/resend data packets.
Do you see? Neither the MSP nor the application communicating to the virtual COM has any idea about the RN41 retrying/resending data. That retry/resend is totally transparent to the user, the MSP and the application on the PC. All three see a COM link, regardless if it is a real COM port or a virtual COM, or if it passes through any other kind of link like IrDA, ethernet, Bluetooth, WiFi, USB, 915MHz FSK, or whatever.
> What I was saying is that bluetooth communication is not a perfect
> link by any metric so the RN41 must retry/resend data packets. As
> you stated there must be limited amount of buffer memory. If you
> do not have something like RTS/CTS hardware handshaking then you
> will fill up ANY send/receive buffers on the RN41 and your data
> will get lost.
Again mixing things. What has lost data packets at the bluetooth level to do with RTS/CTS? Nothing. And have you ever heard of flow control? like in software flow control? Xon/Xoff?
If you had used any transceiver with SPI interface, like the CC110x often discussed on this forum, you'd know the infinite benefits of a properly implemented SPI interface, which gives you access to any number of internal control and status registers.
> I also simply stated that normal SPI has no handshaking. Thus if
> you are smarter than a fifth grader you can deduce the rest.
Do you even know how RTS/CTS works? do you what it stands for? Do you know it only works for one end of the RS-232 link? Surprised?
And have you EVER used an SPI slave? any device you can mention? What do you consider "normal handshaking"? Have you EVER used a chip with an SPI interface? They all (all I have used at least) provide ways to know if the chip and/or any of its buffer has data or is full. There are even maskable interrupts. Knew about them? You're still writing like the only thing you have ever known about SPI is exclusively what can be found in the MSP datasheet. Take a walk in the real world and look at the datasheet of some SPI slaves. And then tell me what their "handshake" problems are. I dare you.
There are so many ways of using SPI with what you call handshaking... All you need to do is know how much bytes there are in the TX and RX buffer, and you don't need any extra IOs for that. But for that matter you *could* also do that with uart in a more complicated way.
> Obviously not worth my time helping you out.
No one asked for *your* help. I merely posted the problems I had with the RN41 having only an UART interface for communication and I asked about bluetooth modules with SPI interface, and what was YOUR help? Let me quote:
> I don't know why you'd want an SPI bus instead of a UART for
> wireless serial communications.
> SPI has no handshaking. Bluetooth serial data gets lost for sure
> without handshaking.
Exactly how was that helpful to anyone? Not to me, not to the previous poster, not to anyone who will come across this thread. You were in fact wrong. And you still are. Even more than that, your post can only confuse someone that is learning about bluetooth modules, so I don't hesitate to strighten things out.
Had you post all that as a question, my reply would have been very different. The form would have been different, but the content all the same. And since you posted absolute BS as a fact, you get spanked. You're still posting rubbish, you get spanked again. Why don't you stand corrected and educate yourself about slave devices using SPI interface?
If you mindlessly throw your opinion - which isn't based on any knowledge as it shows - against a post, you will get spanked. And I'm not one to be afraid of giving one. I'm not the holder of the thruth, nor am I the most experienced member. I still lack a lot of knowledge in a lot of areas. I've made mistakes on this forum and I've admitted them. But this is not one of those mistakes.
Don't want to get spanked? Educate yourself before you post, don't just throw you what you think may be as if it were a fact. Many times I don't know what someone is asking and take the time to educate myself about that and then reply, sometimes even asking more questions than giving answers.
I invite you to read my previous replies to other threads and realize what kind of person I am. And just so you know, this reply took over one hour too.
Michael K.
--- In m...@yahoogroups.com, Henry Liu
>
> Michael,
> When you ask for free advice then you get what you pay for.
>
> Read my message more carefully to understand it before you make comments
> that make you look bad.
>
> Yes it should be obvious that there are two communication protocols. That
> between the MSP and the RN41 and between the RN41 and the host bluetooth
> device. What I was saying is that bluetooth communication is not a perfect
> link by any metric so the RN41 must retry/resend data packets. As you
> stated there must be limited amount of buffer memory. If you do not have
> something like RTS/CTS hardware handshaking then you will fill up ANY
> send/receive buffers on the RN41 and your data will get lost. I also simply
> stated that normal SPI has no handshaking. Thus if you are smarter than a
> fifth grader you can deduce the rest.
>
> Find your own bluetooth solution or make your own bluetooth device.
>
> Obviously not worth my time helping you out.
>
> Henry
>
> On Mon, Nov 23, 2009 at 12:06 PM, Michael
>
> >
> >
> > Henry,
> > I have no idea what you're talking about, or for that matter neither do
> > you?
> >
> >
> > > I don't know why you'd want an SPI bus instead of a UART for
> > > wireless serial communications.
> > The same reason I want SPI bus instead of UART on any other chip I connect
> > to the MSP430. A few benefits:
> > - Higher speed (up to SMCLK/2 which translates to up to 4Mbps on the 1xx
> > family)
> > - Synchronous transfers at any bitrate the master decides upon.
> > - Shared bus. Only one communication interface for all the chips I want to
> > conect to the MSP (done it many times).
> > - Master/Slave: the MSP controls when each communication takes place.
> > Simply put, SPI is an onboard interface (chip to chip), while UART is
> > mainly used for inter-equipment interface (PC to mouse).
> >
> > But first things first: we're talking about the interface between the MSP
> > and the bluetooth chip, not the wireless communication, which by the way is
> > neither.
> >
> >
> > > SPI has no handshaking. Bluetooth serial data gets lost for sure
> > > without handshaking.
> > Just what the hell are you talking about? There is no relationship between
> > Bluetooth and SPI. Not any. Nor between bluetooth and uart. The WIRELESS
> > communications IS BLUETOOTH!!!
> >
> >
> > > There's probably SPI to Uart devices out there or you can just put
> > > another MSP430 in.
> > Another blind shot. You're totally missing the point. I can only guess
> > you've never used SPI, ever. Nor have you ever needed to decide wether to go
> > SPI or UART.
> >
> >
> > > The RN41 can set the buad rate at 1mbps but effective transmission
> > > rate is only 300kbps max I'm told by their support engineers after
> > > the error correction/buffers/etc and you need hardware flow control
> > > over 115k.
> > Sounds logical, since it must have input/output buffers to store the data,
> > like any other transceiver chip that interfaces different protocols with
> > different transfer rates.
> > You are blindly citing what you were told without knowing what it means. Do
> > you even know why one would want a 1Mbps (capital M) baud rate even if the
> > maximum effective transfer rate is 300kbps?
> >
> > You should really keep from blindly shooting your opinion against a post
> > about things you don't know the littlest bit about. Had you taken a little
> > time to instruct yourself on what Bluetooth is and how it works, and what
> > UART and SPI are, you woudn't have written any of this.
> > I wonder how you think a USB to UART chip works...
> >
> > It's better to shut up and be taken for a fool, than to open your mouth and
> > confirm it.
> >
> > Michael K.
> >
> > --- In m...@yahoogroups.com
> >
> > >
> > > I don't know why you'd want an SPI bus instead of a UART for wireless
> > serial
> > > communications.
> > >
> > > SPI has no handshaking. Bluetooth serial data gets lost for sure without
> > > handshaking.
> > >
> > > There's probably SPI to Uart devices out there or you can just put
> > another
> > > MSP430 in.
> > >
> > > The RN41 can set the buad rate at 1mbps but effective transmission rate
> > is
> > > only 300kbps max I'm told by their support engineers after the error
> > > correction/buffers/etc and you need hardware flow control over 115k.
> > >
> > > On Mon, Nov 23, 2009 at 7:22 AM, Michael
> > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On the RN41 the uart (as well as the virtual COM port) can be used for
> > > > configuring the device (baudrate, bluetooth clasification, device name,
> > > > operating mode, etc), but the SPI is for programming, as in flashing,
> > the
> > > > device.
> > > >
> > > > Regards,
> > > > Michael K.
> > > >
> > > > P.D.: I appologise if this mail gets you twice, but I didn't get a
> > > > confirmation after pressing 'send' on the Y!G web composer. And did not
> > find
> > > > a new post on this tread.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --- In m...@yahoogroups.com
> >
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > I have used the BlueGiga WT12A which is also SPI for programming and
> > UART
> > > > > for communications.
> > > > > Some programming can be done through the UART as well. I am not sure
> > the
> > > > > function overlap between
> > > > > the two ports.
> > > > >
> > > > > (* jcl *)
> > > > >
> > > > > On Mon, Nov 23, 2009 at 9:54 AM, Michael
> > > > >
> > > > > > But the RN41 module's SPI inteface is for programming only; you
> > can't
> > > > use
> > > > > > it for transferring data over bluetooth (which would have been
> > great).
> > > > At
> > > > > > least that's what I got from the datasheet (I'm toddling with one).
> > > > > > However, you can achieve a quite high uart speed (I think it is
> > about
> > > > > > 1Mbit).
> > > > > > I'd too appreciate suggestions on Bluetooth modules. Digikey has a
> > few.
> > > > I
> > > > > > think the RN41 was among the cheapest, but just coudn't get them to
> > > > send one
> > > > > > to my country. Damned paranoid USA policies. We even have an FTA
> > (free
> > > > trade
> > > > > > agreement) with you, you idiots!
> > > > > > Sorry for the outrage, I just quit my job 2 minutes ago...
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Regards,
> > > > > > Michael K.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > --- In m...@yahoogroups.com
> >
> > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Roving networks RN41. $25 at mouser/digikey.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > On Fri, Nov 20, 2009 at 1:37 PM, Jim Carlson
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Does anyone have a recommendation for adding Bluetooth to a
> > MSP430
> > > > > > handheld
> > > > > > > > unit? I have a spi bus that I would like to use as the
> > interface.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Thanks
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Jim
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > ------------------------------------
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
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Re: Re: Bluetooth - Henry Liu - Nov 23 18:06:27 2009
>
> Educate yourself before you post
>
I have educated myself but thanks for the tip.
Dr Henry Liu, PhD
(Stanford University, 2007)
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
------------------------------------
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> Educate yourself before you post
>
I have educated myself but thanks for the tip.
Dr Henry Liu, PhD
(Stanford University, 2007)
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
------------------------------------
______________________________
controlSUITE™ software. Comprehensive. Intuitive. Optimized.
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Re: Re: Bluetooth - Henry Liu - Nov 23 19:00:29 2009
Maybe I'm being a sucker for commenting further but maybe some clarification
is necessary.
> In fact it must have taken me about 90 minutes to compose the reply.
Must be slow typing skills they teach at trade school.
> Do you see? Neither the MSP nor the application communicating to the
virtual COM has any idea about the >RN41 retrying/resending data. That
retry/resend is totally transparent to the user, the MSP and the application
>on the PC. All three see a COM link, regardless if it is a real COM port or
a virtual COM, or if it passes through >any other kind of link like IrDA,
ethernet, Bluetooth, WiFi, USB, 915MHz FSK, or whatever.
That's because you have abstracted the software too far. Suppose the RN41
loses a packet and needs to retry sending. Then the RN41 FIFO buffer is
filling up if you are streaming data to it. You cannot stream data
continuously without checking if the FIFO is full. Data lost by the
bluetooth module occurs at random times. If it were predictable like adc
conversion or memory writes then I'd say SPI is better for sure because you
don't need to check the status.
>Again mixing things. What has lost data packets at the bluetooth level to
do with RTS/CTS? Nothing. And have >you ever heard of flow control? like in
software flow control? Xon/Xoff?
>If you had used any transceiver with SPI interface, like the CC110x often
discussed on this forum, you'd know >the infinite benefits of a properly
implemented SPI interface, which gives you access to any number of internal
>control and status registers.
Most SPI devices I've used have two modes of operation. Normally you need
to send in an op code then the address then the data to write or read the
output. Most high speed devices like the Microchip SPI MCP23S17 have an
I/O data stream mode where you send the OP code/address once then stream.
You can just stream data continuously to the port address. To stop it you
assert CS. Whether periodic stopping the data stream to check internal chip
registers is better/easier than using RTS/CTS flow control to check if the
FIFO buffer is full is debatable. I assume it could output the data written
on the SPI out line but then you still need to check it. I programmed both
low level code in assembly and I prefer serial over SPI for connections
where the data needs to be paused in unpredictable ways (when the RN41
buffer is full is).
I haven't used the CC110x so maybe the implementation is better for
wireless. I would need to read the datasheet to see how it implements the
protocol but I assume you either have to send OP codes to the SPI device or
stop datastreaming mode and send a read status OP code and check what you
lost.
I'm sure there is a decent communication protocol you can come up with SPI
to make it work as they implemented with the CC110x. Then again, you could
come up with a decent protocol with any bus.
My statement "I don't know why you'd want an SPI bus instead of a UART for
wireless serial communications" is my opinion. You are free to state yours
about the SPI preference and show examples of a good/better implementation.
The basic result is that you prefer SPI but the guys at Roving Networks
decided to use the UART mode instead and they probably have a reason to do
so. I would assume since their company is based on selling these modules
that it works better or is easier and more customers demand it. You could
always make your own bluetooth stack/protocol or interface directly to the
Bluecore chip or write your own in VHDL.
Anyway took me a minute to write my response so it probably have errors. If
you can get some use of it then great. If not, then move on.
No need to demonstrate you have no class and are rude.
Cheers,
Henry
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
------------------------------------
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is necessary.
> In fact it must have taken me about 90 minutes to compose the reply.
Must be slow typing skills they teach at trade school.
> Do you see? Neither the MSP nor the application communicating to the
virtual COM has any idea about the >RN41 retrying/resending data. That
retry/resend is totally transparent to the user, the MSP and the application
>on the PC. All three see a COM link, regardless if it is a real COM port or
a virtual COM, or if it passes through >any other kind of link like IrDA,
ethernet, Bluetooth, WiFi, USB, 915MHz FSK, or whatever.
That's because you have abstracted the software too far. Suppose the RN41
loses a packet and needs to retry sending. Then the RN41 FIFO buffer is
filling up if you are streaming data to it. You cannot stream data
continuously without checking if the FIFO is full. Data lost by the
bluetooth module occurs at random times. If it were predictable like adc
conversion or memory writes then I'd say SPI is better for sure because you
don't need to check the status.
>Again mixing things. What has lost data packets at the bluetooth level to
do with RTS/CTS? Nothing. And have >you ever heard of flow control? like in
software flow control? Xon/Xoff?
>If you had used any transceiver with SPI interface, like the CC110x often
discussed on this forum, you'd know >the infinite benefits of a properly
implemented SPI interface, which gives you access to any number of internal
>control and status registers.
Most SPI devices I've used have two modes of operation. Normally you need
to send in an op code then the address then the data to write or read the
output. Most high speed devices like the Microchip SPI MCP23S17 have an
I/O data stream mode where you send the OP code/address once then stream.
You can just stream data continuously to the port address. To stop it you
assert CS. Whether periodic stopping the data stream to check internal chip
registers is better/easier than using RTS/CTS flow control to check if the
FIFO buffer is full is debatable. I assume it could output the data written
on the SPI out line but then you still need to check it. I programmed both
low level code in assembly and I prefer serial over SPI for connections
where the data needs to be paused in unpredictable ways (when the RN41
buffer is full is).
I haven't used the CC110x so maybe the implementation is better for
wireless. I would need to read the datasheet to see how it implements the
protocol but I assume you either have to send OP codes to the SPI device or
stop datastreaming mode and send a read status OP code and check what you
lost.
I'm sure there is a decent communication protocol you can come up with SPI
to make it work as they implemented with the CC110x. Then again, you could
come up with a decent protocol with any bus.
My statement "I don't know why you'd want an SPI bus instead of a UART for
wireless serial communications" is my opinion. You are free to state yours
about the SPI preference and show examples of a good/better implementation.
The basic result is that you prefer SPI but the guys at Roving Networks
decided to use the UART mode instead and they probably have a reason to do
so. I would assume since their company is based on selling these modules
that it works better or is easier and more customers demand it. You could
always make your own bluetooth stack/protocol or interface directly to the
Bluecore chip or write your own in VHDL.
Anyway took me a minute to write my response so it probably have errors. If
you can get some use of it then great. If not, then move on.
No need to demonstrate you have no class and are rude.
Cheers,
Henry
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
------------------------------------
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