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Discussion Groups | Piclist | BASIC advice...
A discussion group for the PICMicro microcontroller. Also called the Microchip PIC, this list is dedicated to the use and abuse of this fine, simple, microcontroller. Close to topic posts are welcome, ie. general electronics.
BASIC advice... - clayforge - Sep 4 19:50:00 2003
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I am looking for input on which BASIC compiler to get to program PICs. I have it narrowed down to PicBASIC Pro, and Celestial Horizons CH Flash Basic. While I know that PicBasic Pro will work with more types of chips, I will really only be using the 16's, so that is not a real issue. Is there ANYTHING that would justify the purchase of PicBasic Pro over the CH Flash Basic, considering that Pro costs more than double the CH Flash? Thanks for all input, advice, and suggestions! Scott |
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Re: BASIC advice... - xob_jt - Sep 5 2:57:00 2003
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When you did your search for pic basics where did you look? CH Flash Basic is a very basic system with a dificult front end and very limited pic support. What happens when you want to program for the 18 series? Pbpro is not bad but old hat now its been years since any decent upgrades have been added. If you want the ultimate in Pic Basics you have to go for Proton+ http://www.crownhill.co.uk/proton_comparison.php The feature least for the product is to big to list here. but for starters 8 16 and 32 bit vars Floating point support (proper) Glcd support Proper data handling Tim --- In , "clayforge" <festave@t...> wrote: > I am looking for input on which BASIC compiler to get to program > PICs. I have it narrowed down to PicBASIC Pro, and Celestial > Horizons CH Flash Basic. While I know that PicBasic Pro will work > with more types of chips, I will really only be using the 16's, so > that is not a real issue. Is there ANYTHING that would justify the > purchase of PicBasic Pro over the CH Flash Basic, considering that > Pro costs more than double the CH Flash? Thanks for all input, > advice, and suggestions! > > Scott |
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Re: BASIC advice... - sergio masci - Sep 5 8:31:00 2003
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Hi Scott, Have you seen the XCSB compiler at http://www.xcprod.com/titan/XCSB ? Regards Sergio Masci ----- Original Message ----- From: clayforge <> To: <> Sent: Friday, September 05, 2003 1:50 AM Subject: [piclist] BASIC advice... > I am looking for input on which BASIC compiler to get to program > PICs. I have it narrowed down to PicBASIC Pro, and Celestial > Horizons CH Flash Basic. While I know that PicBasic Pro will work > with more types of chips, I will really only be using the 16's, so > that is not a real issue. Is there ANYTHING that would justify the > purchase of PicBasic Pro over the CH Flash Basic, considering that > Pro costs more than double the CH Flash? Thanks for all input, > advice, and suggestions! > > Scott |
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Re: BASIC advice... - xob_jt - Sep 5 14:01:00 2003
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Have you Looked at Proton+ it knocks all picbasic's into a cocked hat. http://www.crownhill.co.uk/proton_comparison.php No other basic comes near it for funtionality and device support. Its a good price too £125. Tim --- In , "clayforge" <festave@t...> wrote: > I am looking for input on which BASIC compiler to get to program > PICs. I have it narrowed down to PicBASIC Pro, and Celestial > Horizons CH Flash Basic. While I know that PicBasic Pro will work > with more types of chips, I will really only be using the 16's, so > that is not a real issue. Is there ANYTHING that would justify the > purchase of PicBasic Pro over the CH Flash Basic, considering that > Pro costs more than double the CH Flash? Thanks for all input, > advice, and suggestions! > > Scott |
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Re: BASIC advice... - xob_jt - Sep 5 14:15:00 2003
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Scott Don't forget to Look at Proton+ http://www.crownhill.co.uk/proton_comparison.php Tim --- In , "clayforge" <festave@t...> wrote: > I am looking for input on which BASIC compiler to get to program > PICs. I have it narrowed down to PicBASIC Pro, and Celestial > Horizons CH Flash Basic. While I know that PicBasic Pro will work > with more types of chips, I will really only be using the 16's, so > that is not a real issue. Is there ANYTHING that would justify the > purchase of PicBasic Pro over the CH Flash Basic, considering that > Pro costs more than double the CH Flash? Thanks for all input, > advice, and suggestions! > > Scott |
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BASIC advice... - xob_jt - Sep 5 14:19:00 2003
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As I have been unable to post a reply to the original message. I will try here. Scott Have a look at Proton+ http://www.crownhill.co.uk/proton_comparison.php Tim |
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Re: BASIC advice...sorry - xob_jt - Sep 5 18:09:00 2003
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Very Very sorry for the multiple posts. Every body Tim --- In , "xob_jt" <tim@t...> wrote: > > Have you Looked at Proton+ it knocks all picbasic's into a cocked > hat. > > http://www.crownhill.co.uk/proton_comparison.php > > No other basic comes near it for funtionality and device support. > Its a good price too £125. > > Tim > > > --- In , "clayforge" <festave@t...> wrote: > > I am looking for input on which BASIC compiler to get to program > > PICs. I have it narrowed down to PicBASIC Pro, and Celestial > > Horizons CH Flash Basic. While I know that PicBasic Pro will work > > with more types of chips, I will really only be using the 16's, so > > that is not a real issue. Is there ANYTHING that would justify > the > > purchase of PicBasic Pro over the CH Flash Basic, considering that > > Pro costs more than double the CH Flash? Thanks for all input, > > advice, and suggestions! > > > > Scott |
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Re: Re: BASIC advice... - martin de lange - Sep 6 1:43:00 2003
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Hi
I tried installing the Proton std and Proton+ with XP
but only the installer runs and then nothing. Has anyone had this
happen?
regards
Martin
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Re: BASIC advice... - Cliff - Sep 6 11:35:00 2003
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I have PicBasic Pro, and have been using it off and on for a few years, and have recently downloaded the trial version of CH Flash. Here are my 2 bits, in a nutshell: the CH Flash compiler doesn't match the professional useability or maturaty of the PicBAsic Pro compiler. You get what you pay for. CHF is good if you want to learn PIC assembly. PBP is good if you want to develop useable PIC code. More details: The CHF compiler is not too user friendly, and the online help manual is (even) much worse than the PBP manual. An online search for CHF sample programs results in VERY few resources, with only 17 basic examples on their own web site. PBP help is abundant--including probably over 100 programs just on the MELabs site. (By the way, I bought mine from www.rentron.com ...bruce has ALWAYS been very helpful with excellent tech support, and you might find a slightly cheaper site, but I doubt you'll find better support.) There is also a PBP email list that is far more active than this group. CHF has crashed on me at least three times in the first half hour I used it. It also hangs regularly with XP. CHF is designed more for learning assembler, and isn't user friendly when it comes to actually entering in the program--you have to click buttons instead of typing in the command, and often the dialog boxes that pop up aren't explained well in the help. Some have complained that PBP requires a third party editer. To that, I say--SO WHAT!!! Using the free MicroCode Studio, you can't tell they aren't just one program. The MC Studio Plus is even better, with great debugging capabilities. MCS and MCS+ both have context sensitive highlighting and coloring of text. They also allow you to quick jump to a variable declaration or a label, which is handy in large programs. While it's true that CHF has procedures and allows you to pass values...if you look at the code produced, you can do it manually with PBP. (i.e. instead of CHF's "Call Procedure_1 (x, y)", you use three lines that amount to "Proc_1_A = X : Proc_1_B = Y : Gosub Procedure_1") The compiled code is nearly identical. Also, CHF has float capability. PBP does, too...but you have to port in some assembly code to do so...and the samples are on their web site. The bottom line: If you need to save money, and want to learn assembly for PIC's, and don't mind spending extra time, go with the CHF. If you want to get programming quickly with compact and robust code, regular (and useful) upgrades at reasonable prices ($10), go with PicBasic Pro. Cliff --- In , "clayforge" <festave@t...> wrote: > I am looking for input on which BASIC compiler to get to program > PICs. I have it narrowed down to PicBASIC Pro, and Celestial > Horizons CH Flash Basic. While I know that PicBasic Pro will work > with more types of chips, I will really only be using the 16's, so > that is not a real issue. Is there ANYTHING that would justify the > purchase of PicBasic Pro over the CH Flash Basic, considering that > Pro costs more than double the CH Flash? Thanks for all input, > advice, and suggestions! > > Scott |
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Re: Re: BASIC advice... - sergio masci - Sep 7 9:18:00 2003
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----- Original Message ----- From: Cliff <> To: <> Sent: Saturday, September 06, 2003 5:35 PM Subject: [piclist] Re: BASIC advice... > I have PicBasic Pro, and have been using it off and on for a few > years, and have recently downloaded the trial version of CH Flash. > Here are my 2 bits, in a nutshell: the CH Flash compiler doesn't > match the professional useability or maturaty of the PicBAsic Pro > compiler. You get what you pay for. CHF is good if you want to learn > PIC assembly. PBP is good if you want to develop useable PIC code. > > More details: The CHF compiler is not too user friendly, and the > online help manual is (even) much worse than the PBP manual. An > online search for CHF sample programs results in VERY few resources, > with only 17 basic examples on their own web site. PBP help is > abundant--including probably over 100 programs just on the MELabs > site. (By the way, I bought mine from www.rentron.com ...bruce has > ALWAYS been very helpful with excellent tech support, and you might > find a slightly cheaper site, but I doubt you'll find better > support.) There is also a PBP email list that is far more active than > this group. > > CHF has crashed on me at least three times in the first half hour I > used it. It also hangs regularly with XP. CHF is designed more for > learning assembler, and isn't user friendly when it comes to actually > entering in the program--you have to click buttons instead of typing > in the command, and often the dialog boxes that pop up aren't > explained well in the help. Some have complained that PBP requires a > third party editer. To that, I say--SO WHAT!!! Using the free > MicroCode Studio, you can't tell they aren't just one program. The MC > Studio Plus is even better, with great debugging capabilities. MCS > and MCS+ both have context sensitive highlighting and coloring of > text. They also allow you to quick jump to a variable declaration or > a label, which is handy in large programs. > > While it's true that CHF has procedures and allows you to pass > values...if you look at the code produced, you can do it manually > with PBP. (i.e. instead of CHF's "Call Procedure_1 (x, y)", you use > three lines that amount to "Proc_1_A = X : Proc_1_B = Y : Gosub > Procedure_1") The compiled code is nearly identical. Also, CHF has > float capability. PBP does, too...but you have to port in some > assembly code to do so...and the samples are on their web site. The point is not weather you can get past the limitations of a language using a different language, it is not even about how clever or lazy the programmer is. The point is that humans doing a repetitive task are prone to error. The computer does not get tired or distracted, it does not take short cuts of feel down. It does what it is told from start to finish no mater how stupid or menial the task. A good language and compiler will offload the work from the programmer to the computer letting the programmer get on with his/her main objective: to understand the problem and describe it as a program. By defining a function calling protocol within the language you are allowing the compiler to take more of the burden from the programmer, you are allowing the compiler to better understand the interaction between statements within your program and ultimately to produce faster more compact error free code. Consider the situation where you run out of RAM during program development and you decide to share a variable between different sections of your program. Would it not be better to have the compiler check that this is safe after every change you make to your program. Better still, how about letting the compiler check your program and let it decide which variables are safe to re-use and where. consider the following section of code proc output_high(int bit_number) PORTB = PORTB | (1 << bit_number) endproc proc output_low(int bit_number) PORTB = PORTB & ~(1 << bit_number) endproc proc main() output_high(0) output_low(0) output_high(0) output_low(0) endproc This compiles to just 4 (four) machine code instructions using the XCSB compiler, and the programmer did not have to worry about fancy optimisations or obscuring the meaning by writing extra code or pre-processing the program in his head to embed strange constants into the code. And the greatest benefit of all is that you can turn sections of code (like this) into libraries which you can use over and over in different projects and the compiler will do all the work of checking it and optimising it each and every time you compile it. Yes you get what you pay for, but sometimes the payment takes the form of learning. Regards Sergio Masci http://www.xcprod.com/titan/XCSB - optimising structured PIC BASIC compiler |
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Re: Re: BASIC advice... - Author Unknown - Sep 7 12:31:00 2003
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In a message dated 9/7/2003 7:29:40 AM Eastern Daylight Time, t...@tjbsystems.com
writes:
Lastly ask a Pbro user when the last feature upgread was? 1 may be 2 Tim,
I am just starting in PICS as an extention to my hobby (Model Railroading). I
have been toying with the idea of getting Pic Basic. However from your description above
Proton seems to be the better deal! Where can it be purchased? Is there a trial version
any where that I might take a test drive before buying it? How much does it cost?
Thanks in advance! Ray Russell
NMRA-40609 General Contractor Norfolk & Western Railroad Pocahontas Division Circa 1958 Visit The "NEW" Pocahontas Website at: Click here: N & W Pocahontas Division http://members.aol.com/rruss45826/public_html/index.html OR Click here: Pocahontas Home for the old website! http://milliron.home.sprynet.com/Pocahontas/Pocahontas1.htm |
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Re: BASIC advice... - clayforge - Sep 7 15:35:00 2003
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Does Protom+ have Xin or Xout commands, to use PICs with X10 devices? A few of my ideas involve that. I know PBPro does... Thanks, Scott --- In , "xob_jt" <tim@t...> wrote: > > Have you Looked at Proton+ it knocks all picbasic's into a cocked > hat. > > http://www.crownhill.co.uk/proton_comparison.php > > No other basic comes near it for funtionality and device support. > Its a good price too £125. |
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Re: Re: BASIC advice... - Mike W - Sep 7 15:57:00 2003
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On 7 Sep 03, at 20:35, clayforge wrote: > Does Protom+ have Xin or Xout commands, to use PICs with X10 > devices? A few of my ideas involve that. I know PBPro does... > While on this topic, I know PBPro is now available in a crippled version for appraisal/ hobby use. How seriously is it crippled and in what way?. Mike W |
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Re: BASIC advice... - xob_jt - Sep 7 16:59:00 2003
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Hello Scott Yes XIN and XOUT is supported a v small snippet from the manual XIN Syntax XIN DataPin , ZeroPin , {Timeout , Timeout Label} , [Variable{,...}] Overview Receive X-10 data and store the House Code and Key Code in a variable. Tim --- In , "clayforge" <festave@t...> wrote: > Does Protom+ have Xin or Xout commands, to use PICs with X10 > devices? A few of my ideas involve that. I know PBPro does... > > Thanks, > > Scott > > --- In , "xob_jt" <tim@t...> wrote: > > > > Have you Looked at Proton+ it knocks all picbasic's into a cocked > > hat. > > > > http://www.crownhill.co.uk/proton_comparison.php > > > > No other basic comes near it for funtionality and device support. > > Its a good price too £125. > |
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Re: BASIC advice... - xob_jt - Sep 7 17:06:00 2003
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Mike Pbpro is available (only recently) with a 31 line limit Proton+ is available with a 35 line limit Hope that helps Tim --- In , "Mike W" <mike@c...> wrote: > On 7 Sep 03, at 20:35, clayforge wrote: > > > Does Protom+ have Xin or Xout commands, to use PICs with X10 > > devices? A few of my ideas involve that. I know PBPro does... > > > While on this topic, I know PBPro is now available in a crippled > version for appraisal/ hobby use. How seriously is it crippled and in > what way?. > Mike W |
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Re: Re: BASIC advice... - martin de lange - Sep 8 6:52:00 2003
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Hi Tim
I am still having no luck with installing either of the
demos on XP home.
The installer runs and then nothing - not even an error
message. Using the admin logon with all rights. Have not had any problems with
installing other software. Rebooted and checked everything I could. Switched anti
virus off but still nothing.
One more thing as you seem to be somehow connected with
the company. I had a look at the website as well and the product - is it all about
slating other similar products as this is certainly the message myself and I am sure many
others are getting. On the site the slating is even worse than on this site. I
have been commercially programming pics for ages but have found a need to do protos
quicker and Proton seems my way out. It looks like a good product. I am just
concerned about what I have seen.
Any ideas?
regards
Martin
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Re: Re: BASIC advice... - Author Unknown - Sep 8 9:22:00 2003
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In a message dated 9/8/2003 9:15:39 AM Eastern Daylight Time, t...@tjbsystems.com
writes:
As for my connection with the company. My connection is only that I WOW!
1 new guy asks for help and advice on a getting started with PICS and I start a
war!
Come on Guys!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Ray Russell
NMRA-40609 General Contractor Norfolk & Western Railroad Pocahontas Division Circa 1958 Visit The "NEW" Pocahontas Website at: Click here: N & W Pocahontas Division OR Click here: Pocahontas Home for the old website! http://milliron.home.sprynet.com/Pocahontas/Pocahontas1.htm |
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Re: Re: BASIC advice... - Author Unknown - Sep 8 12:11:00 2003
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In a message dated 9/8/2003 12:48:16 PM Eastern Daylight Time, s...@xcprod.com
writes:
War? Have I missed somthing? All I see is a passionate exchange. Maybe you have to look at it from my point of view! I am so new 3/4's of what you
just went back and forth on meant nothing to me! To me at this point a Lay Person as far
as PICS go it would seem that the software that is used to program PICS is as buggy or
worse then Gates stuff. Since I do not really understand what is going on it seems
to me that when I pick one of these products I am going to alienate a large portion of
this group who might otherwise help me. Kinda leves you wondering if you (I) should
bother. Remember for me it is a hobby not a source of income! Ray Russell
NMRA-40609 General Contractor Norfolk & Western Railroad Pocahontas Division Circa 1958 Visit The "NEW" Pocahontas Website at: Click here: N & W Pocahontas Division OR Click here: Pocahontas Home for the old website! http://milliron.home.sprynet.com/Pocahontas/Pocahontas1.htm |
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Re: Re: BASIC advice... - Author Unknown - Sep 8 14:19:00 2003
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Tim,
I downloaded the Proton+ demo. Is there a document some where that lists the proper
syntax for all it's commands?
Ray Russell
NMRA-40609 General Contractor Norfolk & Western Railroad Pocahontas Division Circa 1958 Visit The "NEW" Pocahontas Website at: Click here: N & W Pocahontas Division OR Click here: Pocahontas Home for the old website! http://milliron.home.sprynet.com/Pocahontas/Pocahontas1.htm |
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Re: Re: BASIC advice... - hogmail - Sep 10 21:34:00 2003
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Ray, I need that link to a command syntax for
proton! thanks Lloyd
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