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Discussion Groups

Discussion Groups | Piclist | Re: programmer board

A discussion group for the PICMicro microcontroller. Also called the Microchip PIC, this list is dedicated to the use and abuse of this fine, simple, microcontroller. Close to topic posts are welcome, ie. general electronics.

Compiler - martin de lange - Jul 22 4:12:00 2003


Hi All
For all those asking about compilers I noticed at http://www.xcprod.com/titan/index.html a basic compiler and although I have not used it the examples looked sensible eg. lcd, 232
It can do 628, f877 and others
 
Charles you might be interested in this since you're doing the dumb terminal
 
regards
martin


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Compiler - Robert Oliver - Mar 5 22:05:00 2004

I am reasonably new to pic chip. and am looking for a good compiler.

I am fluent in basic and I know C, have done some work with java.

I nead the compiler to be low cost, and reasonalby simple so I don't have to
put to much time into learning it.

Do you have any ideas??





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Re: Compiler - sergio masci - Mar 6 8:56:00 2004


----- Original Message -----
From: Robert Oliver <>
To: <>
Sent: Saturday, March 06, 2004 3:05 AM
Subject: [piclist] Compiler > I am reasonably new to pic chip. and am looking for a good compiler.
>
> I am fluent in basic and I know C, have done some work with java.
>
> I nead the compiler to be low cost, and reasonalby simple so I don't have
to
> put to much time into learning it.
>
> Do you have any ideas??

XCSB is a structured PIC BASIC with 8, 16, 32 integer, 32 bit floating
point, array, ponter, user function and multitasking support. The compiler
produces VERY efficient native machine code executables (not tokenised code
or virtual machine code).

The LITE edition of the compiler is FREE for personal non-commercial use.

Regards
Sergio Masci

http://www.xcprod.com/titan/XCSB - optimising structured PIC BASIC compiler.




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programmer board - John Baker - Mar 6 10:16:00 2004

Hello. I am very new to pics. I've used a Basic Stamp 2 in the past, and would like to start with pics. Will anyone direct me towards a board I can buy or build to download an assembly or Pic Basic program to? My budget is up to $50, so if anyone can help, I'd be very appreciative.

Thank you, John Baker 


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Re: programmer board - Dave Mucha - Mar 6 21:50:00 2004

--- In , John Baker <johnbaker_erie_pa@y...>
wrote:
>
> Hello. I am very new to pics. I've used a Basic Stamp 2 in the
past, and would like to start with pics. Will anyone direct me
towards a board I can buy or build to download an assembly or Pic
Basic program to? My budget is up to $50, so if anyone can help, I'd
be very appreciative.
>
> Thank you, John Baker >

Hi John,

Sounds like you need to do a little more research on your needs and
what is available. Generally, a programmer board can send a program to your PIC. you'll
need to know if you are using an 8 pin, 28 or 40 pin PIC. Don't
worrry too much as your options are open to upgrade, but there are
often some limits on the chip.

Glitchbuster.com has a $10.00 programmer kit.

This is the programmier only and not an in circuit debugger.

If you are handy with making your own boards, there are a lot of
different programmers you can make.

Dave






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Re: programmer board - Phil - Mar 7 2:54:00 2004

good advice. in addition, look into in circuit system programming -
ICSP. If you get an ICSP programmer, you can then program any PIC
that supports it by building an ICSP header into your boards. Its
really easy - 4 connections and you are good to go. I use it a lot
with solderless breadboards. I cant imagine moving a PIC between the
target environment and the programmer each time I wanted to change
the software.

--- In , "Dave Mucha" <davemucha@j...> wrote:
> --- In , John Baker <johnbaker_erie_pa@y...>
> wrote:
> >
> > Hello. I am very new to pics. I've used a Basic Stamp 2 in the
> past, and would like to start with pics. Will anyone direct me
> towards a board I can buy or build to download an assembly or Pic
> Basic program to? My budget is up to $50, so if anyone can help,
I'd
> be very appreciative.
> >
> > Thank you, John Baker
> >
> >
> >
>
> Hi John,
>
> Sounds like you need to do a little more research on your needs and
> what is available. > Generally, a programmer board can send a program to your PIC.
you'll
> need to know if you are using an 8 pin, 28 or 40 pin PIC. Don't
> worrry too much as your options are open to upgrade, but there are
> often some limits on the chip.
>
> Glitchbuster.com has a $10.00 programmer kit.
>
> This is the programmier only and not an in circuit debugger.
>
> If you are handy with making your own boards, there are a lot of
> different programmers you can make.
>
> Dave




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Re: programmer board - classify features ? - Dave Mucha - Mar 7 11:44:00 2004

I'm not sure if anybody put together a diagram of the tiers of
programmers, but it might roughly be set out as

tier one
serial port programmer, bring PIC chip out of the board to the
programmer.

Tier two
serial port programmer with additional connections for in-circuit-
serial-programming (ICSP)

Tier three
above with the addition of debug that can show on the PC what is
happening on in the program.

If this is not already out on the web, maybe we can get a group input
and do a much better job defining the differences ?

A copy should be in the files secton of the list.

Dave






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Re: programmer board - classify features ? - Phil - Mar 7 12:41:00 2004

ICSP is a tiny step from a basic programmer. all it does is bring
out the lines from the chip to a header. I'd call it tier 1.01. :)
By the way, you can take a chip socket for the chip your programmer
supports and, by adding the programming lines (mclr, sdata, sclk, gnd
and optionally +5), create an ICSP cable. keep the cables short -
I've heard 6", not sure the real limit, though.

also, I'd include dumb parallel port programmers. kind of tier 0

your tier 3 is basically the ICD. Has anyone cloned ICD2 yet?

--- In , "Dave Mucha" <davemucha@j...> wrote:
> I'm not sure if anybody put together a diagram of the tiers of
> programmers, but it might roughly be set out as
>
> tier one
> serial port programmer, bring PIC chip out of the board to the
> programmer.
>
> Tier two
> serial port programmer with additional connections for in-circuit-
> serial-programming (ICSP)
>
> Tier three
> above with the addition of debug that can show on the PC what is
> happening on in the program.
>
> If this is not already out on the web, maybe we can get a group
input
> and do a much better job defining the differences ?
>
> A copy should be in the files secton of the list.
>
> Dave




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RE: Re: programmer board - classify features ? - Wouter van Ooijen - Mar 7 15:14:00 2004

> Tier two
> serial port programmer with additional connections for in-circuit-
> serial-programming (ICSP)

You should make a distinction between

- serial-port-powered programmers, who relay on the voltages produced by
ther serial port and use 'pin fiddeling' to do the programming, and

- serial-communicating programmers, who use the serial port only as a
means of communication

For some more words about this: http://www.voti.nl/swp

Wouter van Ooijen

-- -------------------------------------------
Van Ooijen Technische Informatica: www.voti.nl
consultancy, development, PICmicro products





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RE: Re: programmer board - classify features ? - Chad Russel - Mar 7 16:25:00 2004

Hi Wouter,

Nice write up, I skimmed through it. You have not included Tech Tools,
any reason? I am very pleased with their programmer, it has some
quirks, but so do I ;).

Chad

--- Wouter van Ooijen <> wrote:
> > Tier two
> > serial port programmer with additional connections for in-circuit-
> > serial-programming (ICSP)
>
> You should make a distinction between
>
> - serial-port-powered programmers, who relay on the voltages produced
> by
> ther serial port and use 'pin fiddeling' to do the programming, and
>
> - serial-communicating programmers, who use the serial port only as a
> means of communication
>
> For some more words about this: http://www.voti.nl/swp
>
> Wouter van Ooijen
>
> -- -------------------------------------------
> Van Ooijen Technische Informatica: www.voti.nl
> consultancy, development, PICmicro products =====
My software has no bugs. Only undocumented features.

__________________________________


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RE: Re: programmer board - classify features ? - Wouter van Ooijen - Mar 7 17:02:00 2004

> Nice write up, I skimmed through it. You have not included
> Tech Tools,
> any reason? I am very pleased with their programmer, it has some
> quirks, but so do I ;).

I have some too, including a chronical shortage of time :(

Wouter van Ooijen

-- -------------------------------------------
Van Ooijen Technische Informatica: www.voti.nl
consultancy, development, PICmicro products




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Re: programmer board - classify features ? - Dave Mucha - Mar 7 18:27:00 2004

--- In , "Wouter van Ooijen" <wouter@v...>
wrote:
> > Tier two
> > serial port programmer with additional connections for in-circuit-
> > serial-programming (ICSP)
>
> You should make a distinction between
>
> - serial-port-powered programmers, who relay on the voltages
produced by
> ther serial port and use 'pin fiddeling' to do the programming, and
>
> - serial-communicating programmers, who use the serial port only as
a
> means of communication
>
> For some more words about this: http://www.voti.nl/swp
>
> Wouter van Ooijen

Very nice introduction into the world of programmers.

As I see quite a few people migrating from Stamps, the whole concept
of a seperate hardware programmer adds to the confusion.

And, as I attemted to point out to the origional poster, there are
quite a few variations of programmers and what they do and how they
work.

Dave





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Re: programmer board - classify features ? - Dave Mucha - Mar 7 22:00:00 2004

--- In , "Phil" <phil1960us@y...> wrote:
> ICSP is a tiny step from a basic programmer. all it does is bring
> out the lines from the chip to a header. I'd call it tier
1.01. :)
> By the way, you can take a chip socket for the chip your programmer
> supports and, by adding the programming lines (mclr, sdata, sclk,
gnd
> and optionally +5), create an ICSP cable. keep the cables short -
> I've heard 6", not sure the real limit, though. I was thinking that as I was writing it. The pin count of the PIC
really has to do with where the lines go on a PCB to the socket.
Wouter bypassed that with the WISP628 and he went straight into the
chip clip. Two birds with one stone....

Others use different transistors to direct where the signals will go
so they can use one socket for 8,14,18,28 pin chips and such.

But since the origional poster was asking about what is available I
was trying to get a generic table and alert him that a $10.00 device
will not offer teh same features as a $100.00 device.

Dave >
> also, I'd include dumb parallel port programmers. kind of tier 0
>
> your tier 3 is basically the ICD. Has anyone cloned ICD2 yet?
>
> --- In , "Dave Mucha" <davemucha@j...> wrote:
> > I'm not sure if anybody put together a diagram of the tiers of
> > programmers, but it might roughly be set out as
> >
> > tier one
> > serial port programmer, bring PIC chip out of the board to the
> > programmer.
> >
> > Tier two
> > serial port programmer with additional connections for in-circuit-
> > serial-programming (ICSP)
> >
> > Tier three
> > above with the addition of debug that can show on the PC what is
> > happening on in the program.
> >
> > If this is not already out on the web, maybe we can get a group
> input
> > and do a much better job defining the differences ?
> >
> > A copy should be in the files secton of the list.
> >
> > Dave




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Re: Re: programmer board - classify features ? - Chad Russel - Mar 7 23:12:00 2004

Since I see key words new, build, programmer; I need a USB ICSP for a
laptop/PDA that does not require additional power. Any one know of
one, or do I have to build one.

Chad
--- Dave Mucha <> wrote:
> --- In , "Phil" <phil1960us@y...> wrote:
> > ICSP is a tiny step from a basic programmer. all it does is bring
> > out the lines from the chip to a header. I'd call it tier
> 1.01. :)
> > By the way, you can take a chip socket for the chip your programmer
>
> > supports and, by adding the programming lines (mclr, sdata, sclk,
> gnd
> > and optionally +5), create an ICSP cable. keep the cables short -
> > I've heard 6", not sure the real limit, though. > I was thinking that as I was writing it. The pin count of the PIC
> really has to do with where the lines go on a PCB to the socket.
> Wouter bypassed that with the WISP628 and he went straight into the
> chip clip. Two birds with one stone....
>
> Others use different transistors to direct where the signals will go
> so they can use one socket for 8,14,18,28 pin chips and such.
>
> But since the origional poster was asking about what is available I
> was trying to get a generic table and alert him that a $10.00 device
> will not offer teh same features as a $100.00 device.
>
> Dave > >
> > also, I'd include dumb parallel port programmers. kind of tier 0
> >
> > your tier 3 is basically the ICD. Has anyone cloned ICD2 yet?
> >
> > --- In , "Dave Mucha" <davemucha@j...>
> wrote:
> > > I'm not sure if anybody put together a diagram of the tiers of
> > > programmers, but it might roughly be set out as
> > >
> > > tier one
> > > serial port programmer, bring PIC chip out of the board to the
> > > programmer.
> > >
> > > Tier two
> > > serial port programmer with additional connections for
> in-circuit-
> > > serial-programming (ICSP)
> > >
> > > Tier three
> > > above with the addition of debug that can show on the PC what is
> > > happening on in the program.
> > >
> > > If this is not already out on the web, maybe we can get a group
> > input
> > > and do a much better job defining the differences ?
> > >
> > > A copy should be in the files secton of the list.
> > >
> > > Dave

=====
My software has no bugs. Only undocumented features.

__________________________________





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RE: Re: programmer board - classify features ? - Wouter van Ooijen - Mar 8 1:53:00 2004

> > and optionally +5), create an ICSP cable. keep the cables short -
> > I've heard 6", not sure the real limit, though.

Depends on the programmer hardware. I have use up to 3 meteres without
problems (with Wisp628).

Wouter van Ooijen

-- -------------------------------------------
Van Ooijen Technische Informatica: www.voti.nl
consultancy, development, PICmicro products




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Re: Re: programmer board - classify features ? - Bert Drake - Mar 8 12:27:00 2004

If you are willing to pay for it, you can get one from
http://www.dlpdesign.com/usb/dlpflash.html

But it is an expensive little programmer at around $85 US.

I build a kit 150 of the kitsrus.com design, which requries external power.

However, you could get an olimex USB power adapter from sparkfun.com for
$23.
http://www.sparkfun.com/shop/index.php?shop=1&cart=833&cat=1&itemid=211
It provides 18v and a serial port from a single usb connection. With that,
you could use about any serial programmer. (And you can use it for other
things as well.)

----- Original Message -----
From: "Chad Russel" <>
To: <>
Sent: Sunday, March 07, 2004 10:12 PM
Subject: Re: [piclist] Re: programmer board - classify features ? > Since I see key words new, build, programmer; I need a USB ICSP for a
> laptop/PDA that does not require additional power. Any one know of
> one, or do I have to build one.
>
> Chad
> --- Dave Mucha <> wrote:
> > --- In , "Phil" <phil1960us@y...> wrote:
> > > ICSP is a tiny step from a basic programmer. all it does is bring
> > > out the lines from the chip to a header. I'd call it tier
> > 1.01. :)
> > > By the way, you can take a chip socket for the chip your programmer
> >
> > > supports and, by adding the programming lines (mclr, sdata, sclk,
> > gnd
> > > and optionally +5), create an ICSP cable. keep the cables short -
> > > I've heard 6", not sure the real limit, though.
> >
> >
> > I was thinking that as I was writing it. The pin count of the PIC
> > really has to do with where the lines go on a PCB to the socket.
> > Wouter bypassed that with the WISP628 and he went straight into the
> > chip clip. Two birds with one stone....
> >
> > Others use different transistors to direct where the signals will go
> > so they can use one socket for 8,14,18,28 pin chips and such.
> >
> > But since the origional poster was asking about what is available I
> > was trying to get a generic table and alert him that a $10.00 device
> > will not offer teh same features as a $100.00 device.
> >
> > Dave
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > >
> > > also, I'd include dumb parallel port programmers. kind of tier 0
> > >
> > > your tier 3 is basically the ICD. Has anyone cloned ICD2 yet?
> > >
> > > --- In , "Dave Mucha" <davemucha@j...>
> > wrote:
> > > > I'm not sure if anybody put together a diagram of the tiers of
> > > > programmers, but it might roughly be set out as
> > > >
> > > > tier one
> > > > serial port programmer, bring PIC chip out of the board to the
> > > > programmer.
> > > >
> > > > Tier two
> > > > serial port programmer with additional connections for
> > in-circuit-
> > > > serial-programming (ICSP)
> > > >
> > > > Tier three
> > > > above with the addition of debug that can show on the PC what is
> > > > happening on in the program.
> > > >
> > > > If this is not already out on the web, maybe we can get a group
> > > input
> > > > and do a much better job defining the differences ?
> > > >
> > > > A copy should be in the files secton of the list.
> > > >
> > > > Dave
> >
> > =====
> My software has no bugs. Only undocumented features.
>
> __________________________________ >
> to unsubscribe, go to http://www.yahoogroups.com and follow the
instructions
> Yahoo! Groups Links




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Re: Re: programmer board - classify features ? - Chad Russel - Mar 8 18:51:00 2004

Thanks,

Almost exactly what I am looking for. Just need to add some physical
protection to it. These are for people who can barely be trusted to
open a laptop without a crowbar or a pull tab. :-)

Chad

--- Bert Drake <> wrote:
> If you are willing to pay for it, you can get one from
> http://www.dlpdesign.com/usb/dlpflash.html
>
> But it is an expensive little programmer at around $85 US.
>
> I build a kit 150 of the kitsrus.com design, which requries external
> power.
>
> However, you could get an olimex USB power adapter from sparkfun.com
> for
> $23.
>
http://www.sparkfun.com/shop/index.php?shop=1&cart=833&cat=1&itemid=211
> It provides 18v and a serial port from a single usb connection. With
> that,
> you could use about any serial programmer. (And you can use it for
> other
> things as well.)
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Chad Russel" <>
> To: <>
> Sent: Sunday, March 07, 2004 10:12 PM
> Subject: Re: [piclist] Re: programmer board - classify features ? > > Since I see key words new, build, programmer; I need a USB ICSP for
> a
> > laptop/PDA that does not require additional power. Any one know of
> > one, or do I have to build one.
> >
> > Chad
> > --- Dave Mucha <> wrote:
> > > --- In , "Phil" <phil1960us@y...> wrote:
> > > > ICSP is a tiny step from a basic programmer. all it does is
> bring
<<< snip >>>

=====
My software has no bugs. Only undocumented features.

__________________________________


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Re: Re: programmer board - classify features ? - Mr S - Mar 8 23:16:00 2004

Ohhh, they are for management??? :D

( the above comment is made in jest )

--- Chad Russel <> wrote:
> Thanks,
>
> Almost exactly what I am looking for. Just need to
> add some physical
> protection to it. These are for people who can
> barely be trusted to
> open a laptop without a crowbar or a pull tab. :-)
>
> Chad
>
> --- Bert Drake <> wrote:
> > If you are willing to pay for it, you can get one
> from
> > http://www.dlpdesign.com/usb/dlpflash.html
> >
> > But it is an expensive little programmer at around
> $85 US.
> >
> > I build a kit 150 of the kitsrus.com design, which
> requries external
> > power.
> >
> > However, you could get an olimex USB power adapter
> from sparkfun.com
> > for
> > $23.
> >
>
http://www.sparkfun.com/shop/index.php?shop=1&cart=833&cat=1&itemid=211
> > It provides 18v and a serial port from a single
> usb connection. With
> > that,
> > you could use about any serial programmer. (And
> you can use it for
> > other
> > things as well.)
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Chad Russel" <>
> > To: <>
> > Sent: Sunday, March 07, 2004 10:12 PM
> > Subject: Re: [piclist] Re: programmer board -
> classify features ?
> >
> >
> > > Since I see key words new, build, programmer; I
> need a USB ICSP for
> > a
> > > laptop/PDA that does not require additional
> power. Any one know of
> > > one, or do I have to build one.
> > >
> > > Chad
> > > --- Dave Mucha <> wrote:
> > > > --- In , "Phil"
> <phil1960us@y...> wrote:
> > > > > ICSP is a tiny step from a basic programmer.
> all it does is
> > bring
> <<< snip >>>
>
> =====
> My software has no bugs. Only undocumented
> features.
>
> __________________________________ > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
>
> to unsubscribe, go to http://www.yahoogroups.com and
> follow the instructions
> Yahoo! Groups Links __________________________________




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Re: Re: programmer board - classify features ? - Chad Russel - Mar 9 20:25:00 2004

No, you are in fact correct.
--- Mr S <> wrote:
> Ohhh, they are for management??? :D
>
> ( the above comment is made in jest )
>
> --- Chad Russel <> wrote:
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Almost exactly what I am looking for. Just need to
> > add some physical
> > protection to it. These are for people who can
> > barely be trusted to
> > open a laptop without a crowbar or a pull tab. :-)
> >
> > Chad
> >
> > --- Bert Drake <> wrote:
> > > If you are willing to pay for it, you can get one
> > from
> > > http://www.dlpdesign.com/usb/dlpflash.html
> > >
> > > But it is an expensive little programmer at around
> > $85 US.
> > >
> > > I build a kit 150 of the kitsrus.com design, which
> > requries external
> > > power.
> > >
> > > However, you could get an olimex USB power adapter
> > from sparkfun.com
> > > for
> > > $23.
> > >
> >
>
http://www.sparkfun.com/shop/index.php?shop=1&cart=833&cat=1&itemid=211
> > > It provides 18v and a serial port from a single
> > usb connection. With
> > > that,
> > > you could use about any serial programmer. (And
> > you can use it for
> > > other
> > > things as well.)
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "Chad Russel" <>
> > > To: <>
> > > Sent: Sunday, March 07, 2004 10:12 PM
> > > Subject: Re: [piclist] Re: programmer board -
> > classify features ?
> > >
> > >
> > > > Since I see key words new, build, programmer; I
> > need a USB ICSP for
> > > a
> > > > laptop/PDA that does not require additional
> > power. Any one know of
> > > > one, or do I have to build one.
> > > >
> > > > Chad
> > > > --- Dave Mucha <> wrote:
> > > > > --- In , "Phil"
> > <phil1960us@y...> wrote:
> > > > > > ICSP is a tiny step from a basic programmer.
> > all it does is
> > > bring
> > <<< snip >>>
> >
> > =====
> > My software has no bugs. Only undocumented
> > features.
> >
> > __________________________________
> >
> >
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My software has no bugs. Only undocumented features.

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