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Discussion Groups | Piclist | Help choosing the right PIC

A discussion group for the PICMicro microcontroller. Also called the Microchip PIC, this list is dedicated to the use and abuse of this fine, simple, microcontroller. Close to topic posts are welcome, ie. general electronics.

Help choosing the right PIC - Matt McIntyre - Jun 9 1:58:00 2004

I have never designed a device using a PIC but have been reading
about them for a while now. Since I am new I would really appreciate
some advise from people who are more familiar than I am with the
line. I am building a "one off" bicycle light controller. The
controller will be responsible for controlling the two headlights, a
running light, and turn signals which will also serve as brake
lights. My plan so far is to have at least two hardware PWM outputs
that I can use to dim the two headlights to different levels. I need
to be able to flash the turn signals to indicate turning and I think
this might be done using two normal I/O pins. Right now I am
planning on using a membrane keypad of some type for UI and will
have to come up with some kind of micro switch or optical sensor to
sense the vehicle braking. I would like to use the PIC to monitor
the supply voltage and indicate when the voltage drops below a set
point.

In short, I think I need a PIC with two outputs I can use for
hardware PWM and at least 8 normal I/O.

I don't begin to expect anyone to write my code for me or give me a
schematic but if anyone has any suggestons I would absolutely
appreciate them!

Thanks!





(You need to be a member of piclist -- send a blank email to piclist-subscribe@yahoogroups.com )


Re: Help choosing the right PIC - rtstofer - Jun 15 0:03:00 2004


There are MANY PIC selections that can fill the requirements -
probably more than a hundred. So, it comes down to picking
something that will get you started and let you see results. There
are just as many development systems as PIC choices so again it
comes down to picking something.

I am going to suggest something a little off the wall - many will
disagree. Go to www.junun.org and wander around the Mark III robot
site until you find the page where you can purchase the robot
controller for $30. The is a complete development system with a
boot loader already programmed in the chip. If you go to the
MiniSumoMarkIII group here on Yahoo you can get the BotLoader
software that will allow you to download hex files to the controller.

There is also a prototype board available for any extra stuff you
want and it has the advantage that it plugs in to the main board
with a 40 pin header.

Anyway, the controller runs from a 9V battery (use rechargeable as
they only last an hour) but you can deal with that problem later - a
12V battery will probably work just as well.

Now you can download various development software packages - may I
suggest either PIC C Lite (www.htsoft.com) or cc5x (search Google).
You will, in both cases, need to download the latest MPASM assembler
package from www.microchip.com. Look at the C examples at
MiniSumoMarkIII to see how to handle the fact that your program must
have an origin at 0x003 not 0x000. If you have a problem with that
part, post back. There is a special file required to accomplish the
same thing in PIC C Lite - I have it when you get that far.

Using this type of development platform eliminates the problem of
buying a chip programmer, programmer software and all that stuff.
Later, when you have a fully functional design and want to go into
production you can change to a more appropriate (smaller, much
smaller) chip and program it directly. But in the meantime you can
program all day long with no extra costs.

Have fun!

--- In , "Matt McIntyre" <mamcinty@u...>
wrote:
> I have never designed a device using a PIC but have been reading
> about them for a while now. Since I am new I would really
appreciate
> some advise from people who are more familiar than I am with the
> line. I am building a "one off" bicycle light controller. The
> controller will be responsible for controlling the two headlights,
a
> running light, and turn signals which will also serve as brake
> lights. My plan so far is to have at least two hardware PWM
outputs
> that I can use to dim the two headlights to different levels. I
need
> to be able to flash the turn signals to indicate turning and I
think
> this might be done using two normal I/O pins. Right now I am
> planning on using a membrane keypad of some type for UI and will
> have to come up with some kind of micro switch or optical sensor
to
> sense the vehicle braking. I would like to use the PIC to monitor
> the supply voltage and indicate when the voltage drops below a set
> point.
>
> In short, I think I need a PIC with two outputs I can use for
> hardware PWM and at least 8 normal I/O.
>
> I don't begin to expect anyone to write my code for me or give me
a
> schematic but if anyone has any suggestons I would absolutely
> appreciate them!
>
> Thanks!




(You need to be a member of piclist -- send a blank email to piclist-subscribe@yahoogroups.com )

Re: Help choosing the right PIC - bean bean - Jun 15 6:06:00 2004

I had very good luck getting started with the PICKit1, you can get it from digikey for only $36. I comes with an 8-pin PIC but you will probably want to get one of the supported 14-pin PICs for your project. You can get PICs with analog to digital converters too.
 
P.S. I really like your idea for the project.
 
Bean.

Matt McIntyre <m...@uncg.edu> wrote:
I have never designed a device using a PIC but have been reading
about them for a while now. Since I am new I would really appreciate
some advise from people who are more familiar than I am with the
line. I am building a "one off" bicycle light controller. The
controller will be responsible for controlling the two headlights, a
running light, and turn signals which will also serve as brake
lights. My plan so far is to have at least two hardware PWM outputs
that I can use to dim the two headlights to different levels. I need
to be able to flash the turn signals to indicate turning and I think
this might be done using two normal I/O pins. Right now I am
planning on using a membrane keypad of some type for UI and will
have to come up with some kind of micro switch or optical sensor to
sense the vehicle braking. I would like to use the PIC to monitor
the supply voltage and indicate when the voltage drops below a set
point.

In short, I think I need a PIC with two outputs I can use for
hardware PWM and at least 8 normal I/O.

I don't begin to expect anyone to write my code for me or give me a
schematic but if anyone has any suggestons I would absolutely
appreciate them!

Thanks!

to unsubscribe, go to http://www.yahoogroups.com and follow the instructions




(You need to be a member of piclist -- send a blank email to piclist-subscribe@yahoogroups.com )

Re: Help choosing the right PIC - Phil - Jun 15 11:39:00 2004

The mkIII controller is not a bad choice - it can do every thing in
the "spec". Development is fairly easy. However, its awfully big
for the application - at least, I'd want something smaller. Any of
the 18 pin PICs can do what he wants with some pins to spare and can
probably be packaged into a 1"x3" or so form factor. With some
effort and SMT components, it could be gotten down to a bikecomputer-
ish form factor (1"x1" or so).

Maybe this heresy in a PIC group but, except for light dimming, this
can be done with out a micro at all.

--- In , "rtstofer" <rstofer@p...> wrote:
>
> There are MANY PIC selections that can fill the requirements -
> probably more than a hundred. So, it comes down to picking
> something that will get you started and let you see results. There
> are just as many development systems as PIC choices so again it
> comes down to picking something.
>
> I am going to suggest something a little off the wall - many will
> disagree. Go to www.junun.org and wander around the Mark III robot
> site until you find the page where you can purchase the robot
> controller for $30. The is a complete development system with a
> boot loader already programmed in the chip. If you go to the
> MiniSumoMarkIII group here on Yahoo you can get the BotLoader
> software that will allow you to download hex files to the
controller.
>
> There is also a prototype board available for any extra stuff you
> want and it has the advantage that it plugs in to the main board
> with a 40 pin header.
>
> Anyway, the controller runs from a 9V battery (use rechargeable as
> they only last an hour) but you can deal with that problem later -
a
> 12V battery will probably work just as well.
>
> Now you can download various development software packages - may I
> suggest either PIC C Lite (www.htsoft.com) or cc5x (search
Google).
> You will, in both cases, need to download the latest MPASM
assembler
> package from www.microchip.com. Look at the C examples at
> MiniSumoMarkIII to see how to handle the fact that your program
must
> have an origin at 0x003 not 0x000. If you have a problem with that
> part, post back. There is a special file required to accomplish
the
> same thing in PIC C Lite - I have it when you get that far.
>
> Using this type of development platform eliminates the problem of
> buying a chip programmer, programmer software and all that stuff.
> Later, when you have a fully functional design and want to go into
> production you can change to a more appropriate (smaller, much
> smaller) chip and program it directly. But in the meantime you can
> program all day long with no extra costs.
>
> Have fun!
>
> --- In , "Matt McIntyre" <mamcinty@u...>
> wrote:
> > I have never designed a device using a PIC but have been reading
> > about them for a while now. Since I am new I would really
> appreciate
> > some advise from people who are more familiar than I am with the
> > line. I am building a "one off" bicycle light controller. The
> > controller will be responsible for controlling the two
headlights,
> a
> > running light, and turn signals which will also serve as brake
> > lights. My plan so far is to have at least two hardware PWM
> outputs
> > that I can use to dim the two headlights to different levels. I
> need
> > to be able to flash the turn signals to indicate turning and I
> think
> > this might be done using two normal I/O pins. Right now I am
> > planning on using a membrane keypad of some type for UI and will
> > have to come up with some kind of micro switch or optical sensor
> to
> > sense the vehicle braking. I would like to use the PIC to monitor
> > the supply voltage and indicate when the voltage drops below a
set
> > point.
> >
> > In short, I think I need a PIC with two outputs I can use for
> > hardware PWM and at least 8 normal I/O.
> >
> > I don't begin to expect anyone to write my code for me or give me
> a
> > schematic but if anyone has any suggestons I would absolutely
> > appreciate them!
> >
> > Thanks!




(You need to be a member of piclist -- send a blank email to piclist-subscribe@yahoogroups.com )

Re: Help choosing the right PIC - rtstofer - Jun 15 12:49:00 2004


All true but the hardware development time plus software development
plus integration is just too long. In my opinion, it is better to
get a prototype working for proof of concept and a fully functioning
development system speeds that along.

But, its just one approach.

My guess is that this project is for intellectual curiosity. As you
point out, this thing doesn't need a PIC. --- In , "Phil" <phil1960us@y...> wrote:
> The mkIII controller is not a bad choice - it can do every thing
in
> the "spec". Development is fairly easy. However, its awfully big
> for the application - at least, I'd want something smaller. Any
of
> the 18 pin PICs can do what he wants with some pins to spare and
can
> probably be packaged into a 1"x3" or so form factor. With some
> effort and SMT components, it could be gotten down to a
bikecomputer-
> ish form factor (1"x1" or so).
>
> Maybe this heresy in a PIC group but, except for light dimming,
this
> can be done with out a micro at all.
>
> --- In , "rtstofer" <rstofer@p...> wrote:
> >
> > There are MANY PIC selections that can fill the requirements -
> > probably more than a hundred. So, it comes down to picking
> > something that will get you started and let you see results.
There
> > are just as many development systems as PIC choices so again it
> > comes down to picking something.
> >
> > I am going to suggest something a little off the wall - many
will
> > disagree. Go to www.junun.org and wander around the Mark III
robot
> > site until you find the page where you can purchase the robot
> > controller for $30. The is a complete development system with a
> > boot loader already programmed in the chip. If you go to the
> > MiniSumoMarkIII group here on Yahoo you can get the BotLoader
> > software that will allow you to download hex files to the
> controller.
> >
> > There is also a prototype board available for any extra stuff
you
> > want and it has the advantage that it plugs in to the main board
> > with a 40 pin header.
> >
> > Anyway, the controller runs from a 9V battery (use rechargeable
as
> > they only last an hour) but you can deal with that problem
later -
> a
> > 12V battery will probably work just as well.
> >
> > Now you can download various development software packages - may
I
> > suggest either PIC C Lite (www.htsoft.com) or cc5x (search
> Google).
> > You will, in both cases, need to download the latest MPASM
> assembler
> > package from www.microchip.com. Look at the C examples at
> > MiniSumoMarkIII to see how to handle the fact that your program
> must
> > have an origin at 0x003 not 0x000. If you have a problem with
that
> > part, post back. There is a special file required to accomplish
> the
> > same thing in PIC C Lite - I have it when you get that far.
> >
> > Using this type of development platform eliminates the problem
of
> > buying a chip programmer, programmer software and all that
stuff.
> > Later, when you have a fully functional design and want to go
into
> > production you can change to a more appropriate (smaller, much
> > smaller) chip and program it directly. But in the meantime you
can
> > program all day long with no extra costs.
> >
> > Have fun!
> >
> > --- In , "Matt McIntyre" <mamcinty@u...>
> > wrote:
> > > I have never designed a device using a PIC but have been
reading
> > > about them for a while now. Since I am new I would really
> > appreciate
> > > some advise from people who are more familiar than I am with
the
> > > line. I am building a "one off" bicycle light controller. The
> > > controller will be responsible for controlling the two
> headlights,
> > a
> > > running light, and turn signals which will also serve as brake
> > > lights. My plan so far is to have at least two hardware PWM
> > outputs
> > > that I can use to dim the two headlights to different levels.
I
> > need
> > > to be able to flash the turn signals to indicate turning and I
> > think
> > > this might be done using two normal I/O pins. Right now I am
> > > planning on using a membrane keypad of some type for UI and
will
> > > have to come up with some kind of micro switch or optical
sensor
> > to
> > > sense the vehicle braking. I would like to use the PIC to
monitor
> > > the supply voltage and indicate when the voltage drops below a
> set
> > > point.
> > >
> > > In short, I think I need a PIC with two outputs I can use for
> > > hardware PWM and at least 8 normal I/O.
> > >
> > > I don't begin to expect anyone to write my code for me or give
me
> > a
> > > schematic but if anyone has any suggestons I would absolutely
> > > appreciate them!
> > >
> > > Thanks!




(You need to be a member of piclist -- send a blank email to piclist-subscribe@yahoogroups.com )

Re: Help choosing the right PIC - Allan Lane - Jun 15 13:26:00 2004

One nice choice would be the Atom processor, with
a development board, from www.basicmicro.com.

Their "LCD Prototype" board fits in a small
PacTec HML enclosure. Their 'Basic' language is
relatively PBasic compatible, and their debugger
is outstanding.

--- In , "rtstofer" <rstofer@p...> wrote:
>
> All true but the hardware development time plus software
development
> plus integration is just too long. In my opinion, it is better to
> get a prototype working for proof of concept and a fully
functioning
> development system speeds that along.
>
> But, its just one approach.
>
> My guess is that this project is for intellectual curiosity. As
you
> point out, this thing doesn't need a PIC. > --- In , "Phil" <phil1960us@y...> wrote:
> > The mkIII controller is not a bad choice - it can do every thing
> in
> > the "spec". Development is fairly easy. However, its awfully
big
> > for the application - at least, I'd want something smaller. Any
> of
> > the 18 pin PICs can do what he wants with some pins to spare and
> can
> > probably be packaged into a 1"x3" or so form factor. With some
> > effort and SMT components, it could be gotten down to a
> bikecomputer-
> > ish form factor (1"x1" or so).
> >
> > Maybe this heresy in a PIC group but, except for light dimming,
> this
> > can be done with out a micro at all.
> >
> > --- In , "rtstofer" <rstofer@p...> wrote:
> > >
> > > There are MANY PIC selections that can fill the requirements -
> > > probably more than a hundred. So, it comes down to picking
> > > something that will get you started and let you see results.
> There
> > > are just as many development systems as PIC choices so again it
> > > comes down to picking something.
> > >
> > > I am going to suggest something a little off the wall - many
> will
> > > disagree. Go to www.junun.org and wander around the Mark III
> robot
> > > site until you find the page where you can purchase the robot
> > > controller for $30. The is a complete development system with
a
> > > boot loader already programmed in the chip. If you go to the
> > > MiniSumoMarkIII group here on Yahoo you can get the BotLoader
> > > software that will allow you to download hex files to the
> > controller.
> > >
> > > There is also a prototype board available for any extra stuff
> you
> > > want and it has the advantage that it plugs in to the main
board
> > > with a 40 pin header.
> > >
> > > Anyway, the controller runs from a 9V battery (use rechargeable
> as
> > > they only last an hour) but you can deal with that problem
> later -
> > a
> > > 12V battery will probably work just as well.
> > >
> > > Now you can download various development software packages -
may
> I
> > > suggest either PIC C Lite (www.htsoft.com) or cc5x (search
> > Google).
> > > You will, in both cases, need to download the latest MPASM
> > assembler
> > > package from www.microchip.com. Look at the C examples at
> > > MiniSumoMarkIII to see how to handle the fact that your program
> > must
> > > have an origin at 0x003 not 0x000. If you have a problem with
> that
> > > part, post back. There is a special file required to
accomplish
> > the
> > > same thing in PIC C Lite - I have it when you get that far.
> > >
> > > Using this type of development platform eliminates the problem
> of
> > > buying a chip programmer, programmer software and all that
> stuff.
> > > Later, when you have a fully functional design and want to go
> into
> > > production you can change to a more appropriate (smaller, much
> > > smaller) chip and program it directly. But in the meantime you
> can
> > > program all day long with no extra costs.
> > >
> > > Have fun!
> > >
> > > --- In , "Matt McIntyre" <mamcinty@u...>
> > > wrote:
> > > > I have never designed a device using a PIC but have been
> reading
> > > > about them for a while now. Since I am new I would really
> > > appreciate
> > > > some advise from people who are more familiar than I am with
> the
> > > > line. I am building a "one off" bicycle light controller. The
> > > > controller will be responsible for controlling the two
> > headlights,
> > > a
> > > > running light, and turn signals which will also serve as
brake
> > > > lights. My plan so far is to have at least two hardware PWM
> > > outputs
> > > > that I can use to dim the two headlights to different levels.
> I
> > > need
> > > > to be able to flash the turn signals to indicate turning and
I
> > > think
> > > > this might be done using two normal I/O pins. Right now I am
> > > > planning on using a membrane keypad of some type for UI and
> will
> > > > have to come up with some kind of micro switch or optical
> sensor
> > > to
> > > > sense the vehicle braking. I would like to use the PIC to
> monitor
> > > > the supply voltage and indicate when the voltage drops below
a
> > set
> > > > point.
> > > >
> > > > In short, I think I need a PIC with two outputs I can use for
> > > > hardware PWM and at least 8 normal I/O.
> > > >
> > > > I don't begin to expect anyone to write my code for me or
give
> me
> > > a
> > > > schematic but if anyone has any suggestons I would absolutely
> > > > appreciate them!
> > > >
> > > > Thanks!




(You need to be a member of piclist -- send a blank email to piclist-subscribe@yahoogroups.com )

Re: Help choosing the right PIC - rtstofer - Jun 15 14:51:00 2004


Also the Domino 2 from www.micromint.com. But we are supposed to be
pushing the PICs. There are a bunch of other fully integrated Basic
based chips around.

As a side issue, I don't like paying a lot of money for
documentation (Domino) or development software (Atom). But there is
that learning curve. With either the Domino or Atom the application
is running in minutes not withstanding external hardware issues.
That will not be the case for the PIC. Well, maybe PICBasic brings
something to the party - I have never used it.

I just like that Mark III controller board - everything is there and
it is known to work. Assuming, of course, that it is properly
assembled. And $30 is hard to beat! --- In , "Allan Lane" <allan.lane@h...> wrote:
> One nice choice would be the Atom processor, with
> a development board, from www.basicmicro.com.
>
> Their "LCD Prototype" board fits in a small
> PacTec HML enclosure. Their 'Basic' language is
> relatively PBasic compatible, and their debugger
> is outstanding.
>
> --- In , "rtstofer" <rstofer@p...> wrote:
> >
> > All true but the hardware development time plus software
> development
> > plus integration is just too long. In my opinion, it is better
to
> > get a prototype working for proof of concept and a fully
> functioning
> > development system speeds that along.
> >
> > But, its just one approach.
> >
> > My guess is that this project is for intellectual curiosity. As
> you
> > point out, this thing doesn't need a PIC.
> >
> >
> > --- In , "Phil" <phil1960us@y...> wrote:
> > > The mkIII controller is not a bad choice - it can do every
thing
> > in
> > > the "spec". Development is fairly easy. However, its awfully
> big
> > > for the application - at least, I'd want something smaller.
Any
> > of
> > > the 18 pin PICs can do what he wants with some pins to spare
and
> > can
> > > probably be packaged into a 1"x3" or so form factor. With
some
> > > effort and SMT components, it could be gotten down to a
> > bikecomputer-
> > > ish form factor (1"x1" or so).
> > >
> > > Maybe this heresy in a PIC group but, except for light
dimming,
> > this
> > > can be done with out a micro at all.
> > >
> > > --- In , "rtstofer" <rstofer@p...>
wrote:
> > > >
> > > > There are MANY PIC selections that can fill the
requirements -
> > > > probably more than a hundred. So, it comes down to picking
> > > > something that will get you started and let you see
results.
> > There
> > > > are just as many development systems as PIC choices so again
it
> > > > comes down to picking something.
> > > >
> > > > I am going to suggest something a little off the wall - many
> > will
> > > > disagree. Go to www.junun.org and wander around the Mark
III
> > robot
> > > > site until you find the page where you can purchase the
robot
> > > > controller for $30. The is a complete development system
with
> a
> > > > boot loader already programmed in the chip. If you go to
the
> > > > MiniSumoMarkIII group here on Yahoo you can get the
BotLoader
> > > > software that will allow you to download hex files to the
> > > controller.
> > > >
> > > > There is also a prototype board available for any extra
stuff
> > you
> > > > want and it has the advantage that it plugs in to the main
> board
> > > > with a 40 pin header.
> > > >
> > > > Anyway, the controller runs from a 9V battery (use
rechargeable
> > as
> > > > they only last an hour) but you can deal with that problem
> > later -
> > > a
> > > > 12V battery will probably work just as well.
> > > >
> > > > Now you can download various development software packages -
> may
> > I
> > > > suggest either PIC C Lite (www.htsoft.com) or cc5x (search
> > > Google).
> > > > You will, in both cases, need to download the latest MPASM
> > > assembler
> > > > package from www.microchip.com. Look at the C examples at
> > > > MiniSumoMarkIII to see how to handle the fact that your
program
> > > must
> > > > have an origin at 0x003 not 0x000. If you have a problem
with
> > that
> > > > part, post back. There is a special file required to
> accomplish
> > > the
> > > > same thing in PIC C Lite - I have it when you get that far.
> > > >
> > > > Using this type of development platform eliminates the
problem
> > of
> > > > buying a chip programmer, programmer software and all that
> > stuff.
> > > > Later, when you have a fully functional design and want to
go
> > into
> > > > production you can change to a more appropriate (smaller,
much
> > > > smaller) chip and program it directly. But in the meantime
you
> > can
> > > > program all day long with no extra costs.
> > > >
> > > > Have fun!
> > > >
> > > > --- In , "Matt McIntyre"
<mamcinty@u...>
> > > > wrote:
> > > > > I have never designed a device using a PIC but have been
> > reading
> > > > > about them for a while now. Since I am new I would really
> > > > appreciate
> > > > > some advise from people who are more familiar than I am
with
> > the
> > > > > line. I am building a "one off" bicycle light controller.
The
> > > > > controller will be responsible for controlling the two
> > > headlights,
> > > > a
> > > > > running light, and turn signals which will also serve as
> brake
> > > > > lights. My plan so far is to have at least two hardware
PWM
> > > > outputs
> > > > > that I can use to dim the two headlights to different
levels.
> > I
> > > > need
> > > > > to be able to flash the turn signals to indicate turning
and
> I
> > > > think
> > > > > this might be done using two normal I/O pins. Right now I
am
> > > > > planning on using a membrane keypad of some type for UI
and
> > will
> > > > > have to come up with some kind of micro switch or optical
> > sensor
> > > > to
> > > > > sense the vehicle braking. I would like to use the PIC to
> > monitor
> > > > > the supply voltage and indicate when the voltage drops
below
> a
> > > set
> > > > > point.
> > > > >
> > > > > In short, I think I need a PIC with two outputs I can use
for
> > > > > hardware PWM and at least 8 normal I/O.
> > > > >
> > > > > I don't begin to expect anyone to write my code for me or
> give
> > me
> > > > a
> > > > > schematic but if anyone has any suggestons I would
absolutely
> > > > > appreciate them!
> > > > >
> > > > > Thanks!




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Re: Help choosing the right PIC - Phil - Jun 15 15:05:00 2004

Assuming that he just wants to get it running, then I'd suggest
finding a complete premade unit if one exists. If he wants to learn
PIC development, then the not insignificant overhead is probably
acceptable. I'm not sure we agree, though, that development with a
mkIII controller would be that much shorter. There is still a lot of
fussing and, if he is using basic, he would need to buy the ch basic
package (discount isn't available for the bare board). I've built 2
mkIIIs and programmed them in both basic and assembler, btw. Its a
great little controller board. well designed and thought out.

For shorter dev cycle, I'd push a BS2. You can do simple PWM in
software and, for an LED or incandescent light, you dont need a very
high frequency. This option is going to be more expensive but easy
to develop and can be easily packaged into any form factor he needs.

I still think form factor is a huge issue here (pun semi intended).
A case for the mkIII board would be around 4"x4"x2". While not big
in the scheme of things, I'd want something <1/2 that size for my
bicycle and maybe integrated into the tail light assembly.

--- In , "rtstofer" <rstofer@p...> wrote:
>
> All true but the hardware development time plus software
development
> plus integration is just too long. In my opinion, it is better to
> get a prototype working for proof of concept and a fully
functioning
> development system speeds that along.
>
> But, its just one approach.
>
> My guess is that this project is for intellectual curiosity. As
you
> point out, this thing doesn't need a PIC. > --- In , "Phil" <phil1960us@y...> wrote:
> > The mkIII controller is not a bad choice - it can do every thing
> in
> > the "spec". Development is fairly easy. However, its awfully
big
> > for the application - at least, I'd want something smaller. Any
> of
> > the 18 pin PICs can do what he wants with some pins to spare and
> can
> > probably be packaged into a 1"x3" or so form factor. With some
> > effort and SMT components, it could be gotten down to a
> bikecomputer-
> > ish form factor (1"x1" or so).
> >
> > Maybe this heresy in a PIC group but, except for light dimming,
> this
> > can be done with out a micro at all.
> >
> > --- In , "rtstofer" <rstofer@p...> wrote:
> > >
> > > There are MANY PIC selections that can fill the requirements -
> > > probably more than a hundred. So, it comes down to picking
> > > something that will get you started and let you see results.
> There
> > > are just as many development systems as PIC choices so again it
> > > comes down to picking something.
> > >
> > > I am going to suggest something a little off the wall - many
> will
> > > disagree. Go to www.junun.org and wander around the Mark III
> robot
> > > site until you find the page where you can purchase the robot
> > > controller for $30. The is a complete development system with
a
> > > boot loader already programmed in the chip. If you go to the
> > > MiniSumoMarkIII group here on Yahoo you can get the BotLoader
> > > software that will allow you to download hex files to the
> > controller.
> > >
> > > There is also a prototype board available for any extra stuff
> you
> > > want and it has the advantage that it plugs in to the main
board
> > > with a 40 pin header.
> > >
> > > Anyway, the controller runs from a 9V battery (use rechargeable
> as
> > > they only last an hour) but you can deal with that problem
> later -
> > a
> > > 12V battery will probably work just as well.
> > >
> > > Now you can download various development software packages -
may
> I
> > > suggest either PIC C Lite (www.htsoft.com) or cc5x (search
> > Google).
> > > You will, in both cases, need to download the latest MPASM
> > assembler
> > > package from www.microchip.com. Look at the C examples at
> > > MiniSumoMarkIII to see how to handle the fact that your program
> > must
> > > have an origin at 0x003 not 0x000. If you have a problem with
> that
> > > part, post back. There is a special file required to
accomplish
> > the
> > > same thing in PIC C Lite - I have it when you get that far.
> > >
> > > Using this type of development platform eliminates the problem
> of
> > > buying a chip programmer, programmer software and all that
> stuff.
> > > Later, when you have a fully functional design and want to go
> into
> > > production you can change to a more appropriate (smaller, much
> > > smaller) chip and program it directly. But in the meantime you
> can
> > > program all day long with no extra costs.
> > >
> > > Have fun!
> > >
> > > --- In , "Matt McIntyre" <mamcinty@u...>
> > > wrote:
> > > > I have never designed a device using a PIC but have been
> reading
> > > > about them for a while now. Since I am new I would really
> > > appreciate
> > > > some advise from people who are more familiar than I am with
> the
> > > > line. I am building a "one off" bicycle light controller. The
> > > > controller will be responsible for controlling the two
> > headlights,
> > > a
> > > > running light, and turn signals which will also serve as
brake
> > > > lights. My plan so far is to have at least two hardware PWM
> > > outputs
> > > > that I can use to dim the two headlights to different levels.
> I
> > > need
> > > > to be able to flash the turn signals to indicate turning and
I
> > > think
> > > > this might be done using two normal I/O pins. Right now I am
> > > > planning on using a membrane keypad of some type for UI and
> will
> > > > have to come up with some kind of micro switch or optical
> sensor
> > > to
> > > > sense the vehicle braking. I would like to use the PIC to
> monitor
> > > > the supply voltage and indicate when the voltage drops below
a
> > set
> > > > point.
> > > >
> > > > In short, I think I need a PIC with two outputs I can use for
> > > > hardware PWM and at least 8 normal I/O.
> > > >
> > > > I don't begin to expect anyone to write my code for me or
give
> me
> > > a
> > > > schematic but if anyone has any suggestons I would absolutely
> > > > appreciate them!
> > > >
> > > > Thanks!



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Re: Help choosing the right PIC - Allan Lane - Jun 15 15:34:00 2004

Very good points. I mentioned the Atom because it
is PIC16F876 based, and the IDE is free. The
module (PIC plus support circuitry) is $50.00, and
the support board is around $25.00. However, the
MBasic Pro environment (so you can use your own
PIC16Fxxx flavor) is a bit pricey (around $350).

However, the Atom 'MBasic' language does give you
access to all the PIC16F876 hardware, so it is a
nice introduction to the PIC, while it holds your
hand (so to speak) regarding oscillators, watch dog
timer, other timers, etc.

You're right, though, the $30.00 board sounds like
a better price-point.

--- In , "rtstofer" <rstofer@p...> wrote:
>
> Also the Domino 2 from www.micromint.com. But we are supposed to
be
> pushing the PICs. There are a bunch of other fully integrated
Basic
> based chips around.
>
> As a side issue, I don't like paying a lot of money for
> documentation (Domino) or development software (Atom). But there
is
> that learning curve. With either the Domino or Atom the
application
> is running in minutes not withstanding external hardware issues.
> That will not be the case for the PIC. Well, maybe PICBasic brings
> something to the party - I have never used it.
>
> I just like that Mark III controller board - everything is there
and
> it is known to work. Assuming, of course, that it is properly
> assembled. And $30 is hard to beat! > --- In , "Allan Lane" <allan.lane@h...>
wrote:
> > One nice choice would be the Atom processor, with
> > a development board, from www.basicmicro.com.
> >
> > Their "LCD Prototype" board fits in a small
> > PacTec HML enclosure. Their 'Basic' language is
> > relatively PBasic compatible, and their debugger
> > is outstanding.
> >
> > --- In , "rtstofer" <rstofer@p...> wrote:
> > >
> > > All true but the hardware development time plus software
> > development
> > > plus integration is just too long. In my opinion, it is better
> to
> > > get a prototype working for proof of concept and a fully
> > functioning
> > > development system speeds that along.
> > >
> > > But, its just one approach.
> > >
> > > My guess is that this project is for intellectual curiosity.
As
> > you
> > > point out, this thing doesn't need a PIC.
> > >
> > >
> > > --- In , "Phil" <phil1960us@y...> wrote:
> > > > The mkIII controller is not a bad choice - it can do every
> thing
> > > in
> > > > the "spec". Development is fairly easy. However, its
awfully
> > big
> > > > for the application - at least, I'd want something smaller.
> Any
> > > of
> > > > the 18 pin PICs can do what he wants with some pins to spare
> and
> > > can
> > > > probably be packaged into a 1"x3" or so form factor. With
> some
> > > > effort and SMT components, it could be gotten down to a
> > > bikecomputer-
> > > > ish form factor (1"x1" or so).
> > > >
> > > > Maybe this heresy in a PIC group but, except for light
> dimming,
> > > this
> > > > can be done with out a micro at all.
> > > >
> > > > --- In , "rtstofer" <rstofer@p...>
> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > There are MANY PIC selections that can fill the
> requirements -
> > > > > probably more than a hundred. So, it comes down to picking
> > > > > something that will get you started and let you see
> results.
> > > There
> > > > > are just as many development systems as PIC choices so
again
> it
> > > > > comes down to picking something.
> > > > >
> > > > > I am going to suggest something a little off the wall -
many
> > > will
> > > > > disagree. Go to www.junun.org and wander around the Mark
> III
> > > robot
> > > > > site until you find the page where you can purchase the
> robot
> > > > > controller for $30. The is a complete development system
> with
> > a
> > > > > boot loader already programmed in the chip. If you go to
> the
> > > > > MiniSumoMarkIII group here on Yahoo you can get the
> BotLoader
> > > > > software that will allow you to download hex files to the
> > > > controller.
> > > > >
> > > > > There is also a prototype board available for any extra
> stuff
> > > you
> > > > > want and it has the advantage that it plugs in to the main
> > board
> > > > > with a 40 pin header.
> > > > >
> > > > > Anyway, the controller runs from a 9V battery (use
> rechargeable
> > > as
> > > > > they only last an hour) but you can deal with that problem
> > > later -
> > > > a
> > > > > 12V battery will probably work just as well.
> > > > >
> > > > > Now you can download various development software packages -

> > may
> > > I
> > > > > suggest either PIC C Lite (www.htsoft.com) or cc5x (search
> > > > Google).
> > > > > You will, in both cases, need to download the latest MPASM
> > > > assembler
> > > > > package from www.microchip.com. Look at the C examples at
> > > > > MiniSumoMarkIII to see how to handle the fact that your
> program
> > > > must
> > > > > have an origin at 0x003 not 0x000. If you have a problem
> with
> > > that
> > > > > part, post back. There is a special file required to
> > accomplish
> > > > the
> > > > > same thing in PIC C Lite - I have it when you get that far.
> > > > >
> > > > > Using this type of development platform eliminates the
> problem
> > > of
> > > > > buying a chip programmer, programmer software and all that
> > > stuff.
> > > > > Later, when you have a fully functional design and want to
> go
> > > into
> > > > > production you can change to a more appropriate (smaller,
> much
> > > > > smaller) chip and program it directly. But in the meantime
> you
> > > can
> > > > > program all day long with no extra costs.
> > > > >
> > > > > Have fun!
> > > > >
> > > > > --- In , "Matt McIntyre"
> <mamcinty@u...>
> > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > I have never designed a device using a PIC but have been
> > > reading
> > > > > > about them for a while now. Since I am new I would really
> > > > > appreciate
> > > > > > some advise from people who are more familiar than I am
> with
> > > the
> > > > > > line. I am building a "one off" bicycle light controller.
> The
> > > > > > controller will be responsible for controlling the two
> > > > headlights,
> > > > > a
> > > > > > running light, and turn signals which will also serve as
> > brake
> > > > > > lights. My plan so far is to have at least two hardware
> PWM
> > > > > outputs
> > > > > > that I can use to dim the two headlights to different
> levels.
> > > I
> > > > > need
> > > > > > to be able to flash the turn signals to indicate turning
> and
> > I
> > > > > think
> > > > > > this might be done using two normal I/O pins. Right now I
> am
> > > > > > planning on using a membrane keypad of some type for UI
> and
> > > will
> > > > > > have to come up with some kind of micro switch or optical
> > > sensor
> > > > > to
> > > > > > sense the vehicle braking. I would like to use the PIC to
> > > monitor
> > > > > > the supply voltage and indicate when the voltage drops
> below
> > a
> > > > set
> > > > > > point.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > In short, I think I need a PIC with two outputs I can use
> for
> > > > > > hardware PWM and at least 8 normal I/O.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I don't begin to expect anyone to write my code for me or
> > give
> > > me
> > > > > a
> > > > > > schematic but if anyone has any suggestons I would
> absolutely
> > > > > > appreciate them!
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Thanks!




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Re: Help choosing the right PIC - package size - Dave Mucha - Jun 15 16:18:00 2004

--- In , "Phil" <phil1960us@y...> wrote:
> The mkIII controller is not a bad choice - it can do every thing in
> the "spec". Development is fairly easy. However, its awfully big
> for the application - at least, I'd want something smaller. Any of
> the 18 pin PICs can do what he wants with some pins to spare and
can
> probably be packaged into a 1"x3" or so form factor. With some
> effort and SMT components, it could be gotten down to a
bikecomputer-
> ish form factor (1"x1" or so).
>
> Maybe this heresy in a PIC group but, except for light dimming,
this
> can be done with out a micro at all.
Hi,

I agree with both points, but would add that the dimming can be done
in hardware. someone will touch a switch or a pot and that is all
one needs.

As for the size, I looked at Mouser and found a small waterproof
enclosure that would hold a small board and either a 9V or three AAA
batteries.

If you look at battery boxes, they will be quite large, so the
electronics should not matter.

Dave






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Re: Help choosing the right PIC - Dave Mucha - Jun 15 16:34:00 2004

The BasicStamp offers a complete development with the price of the
unit itself.

The $49.99 per chip is high, but offers free software and all you
need is a cable and you're set.

for a PIC, you can use a proto-board for less than $15.00 buy a
bootlloaded PIC for $4.00 more than list from Glitchbuster and use
free asm to program.

Since we are offering complete heresy the all I would say is AVR-
Butterfly. <snip



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Re: Help choosing the right PIC - package size - Phil - Jun 16 21:26:00 2004

--- In , "Dave Mucha" <davemucha@j...> wrote:
...
> Hi,
>
> I agree with both points, but would add that the dimming can be
done
> in hardware. someone will touch a switch or a pot and that is all
> one needs.
>
> As for the size, I looked at Mouser and found a small waterproof
> enclosure that would hold a small board and either a 9V or three
AAA
> batteries.
>
> If you look at battery boxes, they will be quite large, so the
> electronics should not matter.
>
> Dave

Actually, form factor on a bike is pretty important. I've done a lot
of long distance riding and would want something that is long and
skinny to clamp next to a tube or the right size to tuck under the
seat or maybe integrate into the tail light assembly. I've made PCBs
with AA battery clips that slip perfectly into a 3/4" PVC pipe.

On the dimming, wouldn't a voltage divider drain the batteries faster
than PWM? I presumed that dimming is to preserve battery power.

Phil



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RE: Re: Help choosing the right PIC - Kevin Van Winkle - Jun 18 13:45:00 2004

I didn't cartch the resolution required of the dimming, but if it's just
hi-lo, this is easily done with 2 transistors and 1 resistor. Arranged as
Q1 and a resistor for low beam, and Q2 shorting that out for high beam,
assuming NPN's:

Q1 Q2 Result
low low off
hi low low beam
x hi hi beam

x= Don't care

Of course this is simple can can be modified or expanded many ways. Without
going too far, I was thinking a digital potenitiometer and transistor with a
couple supporting bits could make a very nice digital dimmer on the cheap.
Many are available with 255 or more steps. I can't imaging this is really
necessary in this app., and outside of a learning excercise, and PWM is
overkill too.

Personally, I would be inclined to use LED lighting for this given the
battery power requirement, and some of the LED driver chips have dimming
abilities.

Most PICs are still overkill for this app., maybe put some of that power to
use and add a hall effect sensor and magnet for tach/speed/distance, and USb
2.0 and a laptop with GPS, with streaming webcam with an L band upconverter
to a transponder on G5 via Digicipher II off the gyro stabalized 12 foot
dish and 80 Kw generator on the trailer behind the bike.....you're right, 16
foot would give us much valued gain in the northern lats......

>Message: 3
> Date: Tue, 15 Jun 2004 16:39:30 -0000
> From: "Phil" <>
>Subject: Re: Help choosing the right PIC
>
>The mkIII controller is not a bad choice - it can do every thing in
>the "spec". Development is fairly easy. However, its awfully big
>for the application - at least, I'd want something smaller. Any of
>the 18 pin PICs can do what he wants with some pins to spare and can
>probably be packaged into a 1"x3" or so form factor. With some
>effort and SMT components, it could be gotten down to a bikecomputer-
>ish form factor (1"x1" or so).
>
>Maybe this heresy in a PIC group but, except for light dimming, this
>can be done with out a micro at all. _________________________________________________________________
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Re: Help choosing the right PIC - martin de lange - Jun 18 20:42:00 2004

Buy a PicKit from Microchip right away and start experimenting.
----- Original Message -----
From: bean bean
To: p...@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, June 15, 2004 11:06 PM
Subject: Re: [piclist] Help choosing the right PIC

I had very good luck getting started with the PICKit1, you can get it from digikey for only $36. I comes with an 8-pin PIC but you will probably want to get one of the supported 14-pin PICs for your project. You can get PICs with analog to digital converters too.
 
P.S. I really like your idea for the project.
 
Bean.

Matt McIntyre <m...@uncg.edu> wrote:
I have never designed a device using a PIC but have been reading
about them for a while now. Since I am new I would really appreciate
some advise from people who are more familiar than I am with the
line. I am building a "one off" bicycle light controller. The
controller will be responsible for controlling the two headlights, a
running light, and turn signals which will also serve as brake
lights. My plan so far is to have at least two hardware PWM outputs
that I can use to dim the two headlights to different levels. I need
to be able to flash the turn signals to indicate turning and I think
this might be done using two normal I/O pins. Right now I am
planning on using a membrane keypad of some type for UI and will
have to come up with some kind of micro switch or optical sensor to
sense the vehicle braking. I would like to use the PIC to monitor
the supply voltage and indicate when the voltage drops below a set
point.

In short, I think I need a PIC with two outputs I can use for
hardware PWM and at least 8 normal I/O.

I don't begin to expect anyone to write my code for me or give me a
schematic but if anyone has any suggestons I would absolutely
appreciate them!

Thanks!

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