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Discussion Groups

Discussion Groups | Piclist | PICSTART ICSP (& microchip annoyance"...)

A discussion group for the PICMicro microcontroller. Also called the Microchip PIC, this list is dedicated to the use and abuse of this fine, simple, microcontroller. Close to topic posts are welcome, ie. general electronics.

PICSTART ICSP (& microchip annoyance"...) - M Core - Jul 30 19:02:00 2004




Does anyone use a picstart plus to program incircuit flash chips??

I find it quite annoying that PIC doesn't want you to do it, and instead
made another $160US cable for this instead of making a simple buffer board
or something for the Picstart +.
ATMEL made a cable for theirs and it is only 29$ !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I've seen some guys that say they can do it. Others have had luck with this?
Just use pgd, pgc, gnd, vdd, /mclr pins?
The picstart + programs serially then, it isn't a parallel programmer?

(I've also seen someone selling some type of add-on to the picstart + but
not sure if it was ICSP or to just allow you to put a cable over your whole
IC when it is on the board).

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Re: PICSTART ICSP (& microchip annoyance"...) - Daryl Berryhill - Jul 30 21:11:00 2004

sure! all you need is build a level shifter to go in between the PIC and
the parallel port. or it may be simplier just to buy one off the shelf.
check out http://www.sparkfun.com click on "programmers" I like the PG1
and the PG3B. they both will program almost any PIC. for $8.95 can't be beat At 07:02 PM 7/30/2004, you wrote: >Does anyone use a picstart plus to program incircuit flash chips??
>
>I find it quite annoying that PIC doesn't want you to do it, and instead
>made another $160US cable for this instead of making a simple buffer board
>or something for the Picstart +.
>ATMEL made a cable for theirs and it is only 29$ !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
>
>I've seen some guys that say they can do it. Others have had luck with this?
> Just use pgd, pgc, gnd, vdd, /mclr pins?
>The picstart + programs serially then, it isn't a parallel programmer?
>
>(I've also seen someone selling some type of add-on to the picstart + but
>not sure if it was ICSP or to just allow you to put a cable over your whole
>IC when it is on the board).
>
>_________________________________________________________________
>Take charge with a pop-up guard built on patented Microsoft® SmartScreen
>Technology.
>http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-ca&page=byoa/prem&xAPID=1994&DI=1034&SU=http://hotmail.com/enca&HL=Market_MSNIS_Taglines
>
> Start enjoying all the benefits of MSN® Premium right now and get the
>first two months FREE*. >
>
>to unsubscribe, go to http://www.yahoogroups.com and follow the instructions
>Yahoo! Groups Links





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Re: PICSTART ICSP (& microchip annoyance"...) - Ahmet Uyar - Jul 31 1:00:00 2004

hi

Look at http://www.LancOS.com for SI Prog - Serial Interface for PonyProg I think it is easy way and cheap




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Re: PICSTART ICSP (& microchip annoyance"...) - M Core - Jul 31 18:52:00 2004


>From: Daryl Berryhill <>
>Subject: Re: PICSTART ICSP (& microchip annoyance"...)

>sure! all you need is build a level shifter to go in between the PIC and
>the parallel port. or it may be simplier just to buy one off the shelf.
>check out http://www.sparkfun.com click on "programmers" I like the PG1
>and the PG3B. they both will program almost any PIC. for $8.95 can't be
>beat Hi Dary,
The main point of the question was to use the PicStart Plus to do it, not
really buy or make a new programmer. (but yes I'm sure buying/making
another would work... although then usually that's another can of worms
making sure it supports all other chips etc.)

_________________________________________________________________
Don’t just search. Find. Check out the new MSN Search!
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Re: Re: PICSTART ICSP (& microchip annoyance"...) - Wilson - Aug 2 8:11:00 2004

yes, i use picstart plus to programm in-circuit flash PIC micros. Indeed,
there is a product that must be modified to accept programming. The cause is
RB7 and RB6 are shared to command an led display, so at programming moment
picstart is not enough (i say about power) to drive micro and display.

Be aware with power capabilities of picstart plus!!!

Good Luck! Wilson Antonieti Engenharia de Desenvolvimento Tel.: (11) 4223-5117 Fax.:
(11) 4223-5103 Visite nosso site: www.contemp.com.br
PRECISÃO AO SEU ALCANCE!!!
----- Original Message -----
From: "M Core" <>
To: <>
Sent: Saturday, July 31, 2004 8:52 PM
Subject: [piclist] Re: PICSTART ICSP (& microchip annoyance"...) >
> >From: Daryl Berryhill <>
> >Subject: Re: PICSTART ICSP (& microchip annoyance"...)
>
> >sure! all you need is build a level shifter to go in between the PIC and
> >the parallel port. or it may be simplier just to buy one off the shelf.
> >check out http://www.sparkfun.com click on "programmers" I like the
PG1
> >and the PG3B. they both will program almost any PIC. for $8.95 can't be
> >beat > Hi Dary,
> The main point of the question was to use the PicStart Plus to do it,
not
> really buy or make a new programmer. (but yes I'm sure buying/making
> another would work... although then usually that's another can of worms
> making sure it supports all other chips etc.)
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Don't just search. Find. Check out the new MSN Search!
> http://search.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200636ave/direct/01/ >
>
> to unsubscribe, go to http://www.yahoogroups.com and follow the
instructions
> Yahoo! Groups Links






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Re: PICSTART ICSP (& microchip annoyance"...) - Phil - Aug 2 11:31:00 2004

I think this is more than an annoyance and goes well beyond the
PICStart product. Microchip has failed to help us when it comes to
using the ICSP pins on PICs for something other than programming.
They have only the meagerest of information on this topic so you are
forced to experiment. I usually put switches or high
resistance/impedence things on Data and Clock but it would be good to
have a set of rules and some cookbook circuits that can be directly
applied. Its not a super big deal when you are using a 40 pin PIC
but an 8 pin 12Fxxx is a different animal. I will but mention the
10F line...

What makes this suprising is that the level of product support from
microchip is otherwise simply incredible.

--- In , "Wilson" <wantoniet@y...> wrote:
> yes, i use picstart plus to programm in-circuit flash PIC micros.
Indeed,
> there is a product that must be modified to accept programming. The
cause is
> RB7 and RB6 are shared to command an led display, so at programming
moment
> picstart is not enough (i say about power) to drive micro and
display.
>
> Be aware with power capabilities of picstart plus!!!
>
> Good Luck! > Wilson Antonieti Engenharia de Desenvolvimento Tel.: (11) 4223-5117
Fax.:
> (11) 4223-5103 wilson@c... Visite nosso site: www.contemp.com.br
> PRECISÃO AO SEU ALCANCE!!!
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "M Core" <cmosis5@h...>
> To: <>
> Sent: Saturday, July 31, 2004 8:52 PM
> Subject: [piclist] Re: PICSTART ICSP (& microchip annoyance"...) > >
> >
> >
> >
> > >From: Daryl Berryhill <djberry@h...>
> > >Subject: Re: PICSTART ICSP (& microchip annoyance"...)
> >
> > >sure! all you need is build a level shifter to go in between the
PIC and
> > >the parallel port. or it may be simplier just to buy one off the
shelf.
> > >check out http://www.sparkfun.com click on "programmers" I
like the
> PG1
> > >and the PG3B. they both will program almost any PIC. for $8.95
can't be
> > >beat
> >
> >
> > Hi Dary,
> > The main point of the question was to use the PicStart Plus to
do it,
> not
> > really buy or make a new programmer. (but yes I'm sure
buying/making
> > another would work... although then usually that's another can of
worms
> > making sure it supports all other chips etc.)
> >
> > _________________________________________________________________
> > Don't just search. Find. Check out the new MSN Search!
> > http://search.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200636ave/direct/01/
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > to unsubscribe, go to http://www.yahoogroups.com and follow the
> instructions
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
>




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Re: Re: PICSTART ICSP (& microchip annoyance"...) - Chad Russel - Aug 2 13:06:00 2004

I assume you have read the In-circuit Serial Programming Guide. It
says the impedance of the programmer must be considered when designing
any interface to the programming pins, i.e., the programming pins serve
a dual function. Dual functions pins are not appropriate for cookbook
designing. The safe rule is high impedance or output only.

Chad

--- Phil <> wrote:

> I think this is more than an annoyance and goes well beyond the
> PICStart product. Microchip has failed to help us when it comes to
> using the ICSP pins on PICs for something other than programming.
> They have only the meagerest of information on this topic so you are
> forced to experiment. I usually put switches or high
> resistance/impedence things on Data and Clock but it would be good to
>
> have a set of rules and some cookbook circuits that can be directly
> applied. Its not a super big deal when you are using a 40 pin PIC
> but an 8 pin 12Fxxx is a different animal. I will but mention the
> 10F line...
>
> What makes this suprising is that the level of product support from
> microchip is otherwise simply incredible.
>
> --- In , "Wilson" <wantoniet@y...> wrote:
> > yes, i use picstart plus to programm in-circuit flash PIC micros.
> Indeed,
> > there is a product that must be modified to accept programming. The
>
> cause is
> > RB7 and RB6 are shared to command an led display, so at programming
>
> moment
> > picstart is not enough (i say about power) to drive micro and
> display.
> >
> > Be aware with power capabilities of picstart plus!!!
> >
> > Good Luck!
> >
> >
> > Wilson Antonieti Engenharia de Desenvolvimento Tel.: (11) 4223-5117
>
> Fax.:
> > (11) 4223-5103 wilson@c... Visite nosso site: www.contemp.com.br
> > PRECISÃO AO SEU ALCANCE!!!
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "M Core" <cmosis5@h...>
> > To: <>
> > Sent: Saturday, July 31, 2004 8:52 PM
> > Subject: [piclist] Re: PICSTART ICSP (& microchip annoyance"...)
> >
> >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > >From: Daryl Berryhill <djberry@h...>
> > > >Subject: Re: PICSTART ICSP (& microchip annoyance"...)
> > >
> > > >sure! all you need is build a level shifter to go in between the
>
> PIC and
> > > >the parallel port. or it may be simplier just to buy one off the
>
> shelf.
> > > >check out http://www.sparkfun.com click on "programmers" I
> like the
> > PG1
> > > >and the PG3B. they both will program almost any PIC. for $8.95
> can't be
> > > >beat
> > >
> > >
> > > Hi Dary,
> > > The main point of the question was to use the PicStart Plus to
> do it,
> > not
> > > really buy or make a new programmer. (but yes I'm sure
> buying/making
> > > another would work... although then usually that's another can of
>
> worms
> > > making sure it supports all other chips etc.)
> > >
> > > _________________________________________________________________
> > > Don't just search. Find. Check out the new MSN Search!
> > > http://search.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200636ave/direct/01/
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > to unsubscribe, go to http://www.yahoogroups.com and follow the
> > instructions
> > > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >

=====
My software has no bugs. Only undocumented features.
__________________________________





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RE: Re: PICSTART ICSP (& microchip annoyance"...) - Wouter van Ooijen - Aug 2 13:48:00 2004

> I think this is more than an annoyance and goes well beyond the
> PICStart product. Microchip has failed to help us when it comes to
> using the ICSP pins on PICs for something other than programming.
> They have only the meagerest of information on this topic so you are
> forced to experiment.

I do not understand what you mean. All information that you need is in
the datasheet and/or the programming manual. The consequences for your
target circuit might be a bit complex, but that is not Microchips fault.

Note that the PICStart is not meant to be used for ICSP, so it is not
M'chips fault if it is not easy to use as such!

Wouter van Ooijen

-- -------------------------------------------
Van Ooijen Technische Informatica: www.voti.nl
consultancy, development, PICmicro products





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Re: PICSTART ICSP (& microchip annoyance"...) - Phil - Aug 2 15:29:00 2004

I dont understand what you mean - all I've ever seen about what you
can and can't do on the ICSP pins in a PIC design (not a programmer)
is a short discussion on isolation in TB013. It says:

"As a designer, you must consider what type of circuitry is connected
to RB6 and RB7 and then make a decision on how to isolate these pins.
Figure 1 does not show any circuitry to isolate RB6 and RB7 on the
application circuit because this is very application dependent." It
also suggests that the designer NOT USE the programming pins though
they state that is unlikely to be realistic.

Unfortunately, it gives little guidance beyond "You must take into
consideration the output impedance of the programmer when isolating
RB6 and RB7 from the rest of the circuit". These are direct quotes.

Contrast this with how they describe isolating /MCLR which is very
specific.

Now Atmel, on the other hand, has a decent discussion on the ways you
can isolate the in-circuit programming pins with some ideas (iirc, 3
different ones) as to how to do it. Guess I like their approach
better.

--- In , "Wouter van Ooijen" <wouter@v...>
wrote:
> > I think this is more than an annoyance and goes well beyond the
> > PICStart product. Microchip has failed to help us when it comes
to
> > using the ICSP pins on PICs for something other than
programming.
> > They have only the meagerest of information on this topic so you
are
> > forced to experiment.
>
> I do not understand what you mean. All information that you need is
in
> the datasheet and/or the programming manual. The consequences for
your
> target circuit might be a bit complex, but that is not Microchips
fault.
>
> Note that the PICStart is not meant to be used for ICSP, so it is
not
> M'chips fault if it is not easy to use as such!
>
> Wouter van Ooijen
>
> -- -------------------------------------------
> Van Ooijen Technische Informatica: www.voti.nl
> consultancy, development, PICmicro products




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RE: Re: PICSTART ICSP (& microchip annoyance"...) - Wouter van Ooijen - Aug 2 15:51:00 2004

> I dont understand what you mean - all I've ever seen about what you
> can and can't do on the ICSP pins in a PIC design (not a programmer)
> is a short discussion on isolation in TB013. It says:

You said that you are forced to experiment, yet all the info is there so
you can just think it out. As a general rule
1) RB6 and RB7 must be connected to the rest of your circuit via
resistors that of a significantly higher impedance than the driving
impedance of your programmer (for instance my Wisp628 uses 47 ohm series
resistors in the programmer, so your 'isolation' resistors should be 1k
or more)
2) the 'fiddeling' of RB6/RB7 hould do no harm (for instance, don't
connect it to pyrotechnics, or a H-bridge without short-protection)

Wouter van Ooijen

-- -------------------------------------------
Van Ooijen Technische Informatica: www.voti.nl
consultancy, development, PICmicro products




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Re: PICSTART ICSP (& microchip annoyance"...) - rtstofer - Aug 2 18:46:00 2004

Specific to the 16F877(A) - you'll have to investigate other devices
for yourself:

Don't we also have to hold RB3 to ground until at least the LVP
config bit has been cleared? So, I believe this is another pin you
have to consider.

I thought I saw a recommendation by Microchip to use a dual row
header for MCLR', VCC, RB6, RB7 & RB3 such that, in normal operation
shunts were installed to connect the PIC to external circuitry and
in programming mode the shunts were removed and the programmer could
connect to the header.

I remember doing this a couple of times with a 10 pin header but it
has been a while.

--- In , "Wouter van Ooijen" <wouter@v...>
wrote:
> > I dont understand what you mean - all I've ever seen about what
you
> > can and can't do on the ICSP pins in a PIC design (not a
programmer)
> > is a short discussion on isolation in TB013. It says:
>
> You said that you are forced to experiment, yet all the info is
there so
> you can just think it out. As a general rule
> 1) RB6 and RB7 must be connected to the rest of your circuit via
> resistors that of a significantly higher impedance than the driving
> impedance of your programmer (for instance my Wisp628 uses 47 ohm
series
> resistors in the programmer, so your 'isolation' resistors should
be 1k
> or more)
> 2) the 'fiddeling' of RB6/RB7 hould do no harm (for instance, don't
> connect it to pyrotechnics, or a H-bridge without short-protection)
>
> Wouter van Ooijen
>
> -- -------------------------------------------
> Van Ooijen Technische Informatica: www.voti.nl
> consultancy, development, PICmicro products



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Re: PICSTART ICSP (& microchip annoyance"...) - Phil - Aug 3 2:12:00 2004

well, I really appreciate your information but, again, I don't see
where they actually say what you said. I believe it and I'll add
that to my thinking when I design my next project. It would have
been nice for their app note to say it explicitly.

--- In , "Wouter van Ooijen" <wouter@v...>
wrote:
> > I dont understand what you mean - all I've ever seen about what
you
> > can and can't do on the ICSP pins in a PIC design (not a
programmer)
> > is a short discussion on isolation in TB013. It says:
>
> You said that you are forced to experiment, yet all the info is
there so
> you can just think it out. As a general rule
> 1) RB6 and RB7 must be connected to the rest of your circuit via
> resistors that of a significantly higher impedance than the driving
> impedance of your programmer (for instance my Wisp628 uses 47 ohm
series
> resistors in the programmer, so your 'isolation' resistors should
be 1k
> or more)
> 2) the 'fiddeling' of RB6/RB7 hould do no harm (for instance, don't
> connect it to pyrotechnics, or a H-bridge without short-protection)
>
> Wouter van Ooijen
>
> -- -------------------------------------------
> Van Ooijen Technische Informatica: www.voti.nl
> consultancy, development, PICmicro products




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RE: Re: PICSTART ICSP (& microchip annoyance"...) - Vasile Surducan - Aug 3 3:13:00 2004


On Mon, 2 Aug 2004, Wouter van Ooijen wrote:

> > I dont understand what you mean - all I've ever seen about what you
> > can and can't do on the ICSP pins in a PIC design (not a programmer)
> > is a short discussion on isolation in TB013. It says:
>
> You said that you are forced to experiment, yet all the info is there so
> you can just think it out. As a general rule
> 1) RB6 and RB7 must be connected to the rest of your circuit via
> resistors that of a significantly higher impedance than the driving
> impedance of your programmer (for instance my Wisp628 uses 47 ohm series
> resistors in the programmer, so your 'isolation' resistors should be 1k
> or more)
> 2) the 'fiddeling' of RB6/RB7 hould do no harm (for instance, don't
> connect it to pyrotechnics, or a H-bridge without short-protection) could we use the RB6/RB7 for racket firing and programming the PIC
via ICSP without launching the racket ?
:)
Vasile





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Re: Re: PICSTART ICSP (& microchip annoyance"...) - Vasile Surducan - Aug 3 3:37:00 2004


On Tue, 3 Aug 2004, Phil wrote:

> well, I really appreciate your information but, again, I don't see
> where they actually say what you said.

Unfortunately you have right. Even a healty capitalist economy is making
mistakes isn't it ? :)
However there is an interesting figure: fig.14-18 on chapter14, special
features of the CPU, for example in DS400300C (16F628 datasheet, page 106)
where the producer have a small text: "to normal connections"
Well, the whole Wouter's story is compressed in that three words.
Microchip believes all PIC users are smart. So do I, else they
can't work with it.

best,
Vasile
I believe it and I'll add
> that to my thinking when I design my next project. It would have
> been nice for their app note to say it explicitly.
>
> --- In , "Wouter van Ooijen" <wouter@v...>
> wrote:
> > > I dont understand what you mean - all I've ever seen about what
> you
> > > can and can't do on the ICSP pins in a PIC design (not a
> programmer)
> > > is a short discussion on isolation in TB013. It says:
> >
> > You said that you are forced to experiment, yet all the info is
> there so
> > you can just think it out. As a general rule
> > 1) RB6 and RB7 must be connected to the rest of your circuit via
> > resistors that of a significantly higher impedance than the driving
> > impedance of your programmer (for instance my Wisp628 uses 47 ohm
> series
> > resistors in the programmer, so your 'isolation' resistors should
> be 1k
> > or more)
> > 2) the 'fiddeling' of RB6/RB7 hould do no harm (for instance, don't
> > connect it to pyrotechnics, or a H-bridge without short-protection)
> >
> > Wouter van Ooijen
> >
> > -- -------------------------------------------
> > Van Ooijen Technische Informatica: www.voti.nl
> > consultancy, development, PICmicro products >
>
> to unsubscribe, go to http://www.yahoogroups.com and follow the instructions
> Yahoo! Groups Links





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Re: PICSTART ICSP (& microchip annoyance"...) - rtstofer - Aug 3 9:35:00 2004


Among other places where the isolation requirement is shown,
Microchip document
http://ww1.microchip.com/downloads/en/DeviceDoc/30277d.pdf page 33
Figure 1 shows a recommendation for 'isolation circuits' on RB6 &
RB7.

There is also a lengthy discussion on the circuit requirements for
successful application.

This isolation circuit is also shown on page 512 of the Mid Range
MCU Family Reference Manual DS33023A, again with a length
discussion. Sorry I don't have the full link to this document.

For initial programming I believe RB3/PGM also has to be held low on
devices like the 16F877. Once the LVP config bit is reset I don't
think the requirement remains. This PGM port/pin moves around
depending on which device is being used.

--- In , Vasile Surducan <vasile@s...> wrote: >
>
> On Tue, 3 Aug 2004, Phil wrote:
>
> > well, I really appreciate your information but, again, I don't
see
> > where they actually say what you said.
>
> Unfortunately you have right. Even a healty capitalist economy is
making
> mistakes isn't it ? :)
> However there is an interesting figure: fig.14-18 on chapter14,
special
> features of the CPU, for example in DS400300C (16F628 datasheet,
page 106)
> where the producer have a small text: "to normal connections"
> Well, the whole Wouter's story is compressed in that three words.
> Microchip believes all PIC users are smart. So do I, else they
> can't work with it.
>
> best,
> Vasile >
> I believe it and I'll add
> > that to my thinking when I design my next project. It would have
> > been nice for their app note to say it explicitly.
> >
> > --- In , "Wouter van Ooijen" <wouter@v...>
> > wrote:
> > > > I dont understand what you mean - all I've ever seen about
what
> > you
> > > > can and can't do on the ICSP pins in a PIC design (not a
> > programmer)
> > > > is a short discussion on isolation in TB013. It says:
> > >
> > > You said that you are forced to experiment, yet all the info is
> > there so
> > > you can just think it out. As a general rule
> > > 1) RB6 and RB7 must be connected to the rest of your circuit
via
> > > resistors that of a significantly higher impedance than the
driving
> > > impedance of your programmer (for instance my Wisp628 uses 47
ohm
> > series
> > > resistors in the programmer, so your 'isolation' resistors
should
> > be 1k
> > > or more)
> > > 2) the 'fiddeling' of RB6/RB7 hould do no harm (for instance,
don't
> > > connect it to pyrotechnics, or a H-bridge without short-
protection)
> > >
> > > Wouter van Ooijen
> > >
> > > -- -------------------------------------------
> > > Van Ooijen Technische Informatica: www.voti.nl
> > > consultancy, development, PICmicro products
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > to unsubscribe, go to http://www.yahoogroups.com and follow the
instructions
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
>



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Re: PICSTART ICSP (& microchip annoyance"...) - M Core - Aug 3 17:37:00 2004

Message: 13
Date: Mon, 2 Aug 2004 20:48:35 +0200
From: "Wouter van Ooijen" <>
Subject: RE: Re: PICSTART ICSP (& microchip annoyance"...)

>I think this is more than an annoyance and goes well beyond the PICStart
>product. Microchip has failed to help us when it comes to using the ICSP
>pins on PICs for something other than programming. They have only the
>meagerest of information on this topic so you are forced to experiment.

>I do not understand what you mean. All information that you need is in
the datasheet and/or the programming manual. The consequences for your
target circuit might be a bit complex, but that is not Microchips fault.

Note that the PICStart is not meant to be used for ICSP, so it is not
M'chips fault if it is not easy to use as such!

Wouter van Ooijen
-------
HI,
My point is for a 300US$ product, they should / could have made it to do
that instead of just saying. Oh, why don't you now buy another 200$ US
product to do it. So I feel it is annoying that they seem to be so money
grabbing for their development tools.
While ATMEL will sell you a 29$ product that will ICSP all their chips !!

So out of all this - I see that there was one guy that does use the
PicStart + to program ICSP. But no insight was really given. Just be
carefull as rb&7 might not have enough drive current. (Not sure what he was
meaning by display - assume that is just his particular board). It sounds
like the PicStart + programs in an ICSP mode anyways while the chip is on
the programmer from what I've heard / seen. (?)

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Re: Re: PICSTART ICSP (& microchip annoyance"...) - Wilson - Aug 4 7:20:00 2004

Well, i comprehend that PS may be not targeted to ICSP, however it works at
all with me and others. I guess that Microchip built an programmer that
could program in ICSP mode too, just let designers free and aware about
impedance concerns.

I use PS much more for ICSP than "stand alone". I only have a problem (as i
posted before) with one equipment that share RB6 and RB7 with driving leds
on a display module. However i know this and i fix this annoyance with
jumpers... When i program, jumpers are open, after this operation, i close
them.

It is just what i can say about PS... It is my experience...

Wilson

Wilson Antonieti Engenharia de Desenvolvimento Tel.: (11) 4223-5117 Fax.:
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PRECISÃO AO SEU ALCANCE!!!
----- Original Message -----
From: "Wouter van Ooijen" <>
To: <>
Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 2004 3:07 AM
Subject: RE: [piclist] Re: PICSTART ICSP (& microchip annoyance"...) > > So out of all this - I see that there was one guy that
> > does use the
> > PicStart + to program ICSP. But no insight was really given.
>
> check www.piclist.com
>
> > like the PicStart + programs in an ICSP mode anyways while
> > the chip is on
> > the programmer from what I've heard / seen. (?)
>
> I don't understand what you say (or maybe you don't understand it). ICSP
> is in-circuit, not a different way of programming.
>
> Wouter van Ooijen
>
> -- -------------------------------------------
> Van Ooijen Technische Informatica: www.voti.nl
> consultancy, development, PICmicro products > to unsubscribe, go to http://www.yahoogroups.com and follow the
instructions
> Yahoo! Groups Links





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RE: PICSTART ICSP (& microchip annoyance"...) - M Core - Aug 4 14:20:00 2004



>Subject: Re: PICSTART ICSP (& microchip annoyance"...)
>like the PicStart + programs in an ICSP mode anyways while the chip is on
>the programmer from what I've heard / seen. (?)

I don't understand what you say (or maybe you don't understand it). ICSP
is in-circuit, not a different way of programming.

Wouter van Ooijen

-- -------------------------------------------
Van Ooijen Technische Informatica: www.voti.nl
consultancy, development, PICmicro products

Hi,

I know what icsp stands for, I was talking about the Ps+. I wondered if it
always programs in serial mode (ICSP) or if it used other modes since it has
access to the whole chip when you are programming out of circuit.

Thanks to the guy that mentioned his buffer circuit. I was thinking I would
just build a buffered board to provide enough drive that I can just hook
onto the PS+... I'll check your titled "stoopid" one out.

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