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Discussion Groups | Piclist | PIC10F competition

A discussion group for the PICMicro microcontroller. Also called the Microchip PIC, this list is dedicated to the use and abuse of this fine, simple, microcontroller. Close to topic posts are welcome, ie. general electronics.

PIC10F competition - Leon Heller - Aug 19 0:19:00 2004


Electronics Weekly recently held a competition for designs using the new
PIC10F, the results have just been announced:

http://www.electronicsweekly.com/articles/article.asp?liArticleID=37176&liArticleTypeID=6&liCategoryID=1&liChannelID=114&liFlavourID=1&sSearch=&nPage=1

I was one of the winners. 8-)

Leon
--
Leon Heller, G1HSM
http://www.geocities.com/leon_heller




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Re: PIC10F competition - Chad Russel - Aug 19 0:39:00 2004

Congratulations. :) :) :D

--- Leon Heller <> wrote:

> Electronics Weekly recently held a competition for designs using the
> new
> PIC10F, the results have just been announced: http://www.electronicsweekly.com/articles/article.asp?liArticleID=37176&liArticleTypeID=6&liCategoryID=1&liChannelID=114&liFlavourID=1&sSearch=&nPage=1
>
> I was one of the winners. 8-)
>
> Leon
> --
> Leon Heller, G1HSM
> http://www.geocities.com/leon_heller

=====
My software has no bugs, only undocumented features.
_______________________________





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Re: PIC10F competition - Trent - Aug 19 2:14:00 2004

Congratulations! Now you have to tell us though, has it improved your
golf game? :D

Trent --- In , "Leon Heller" <leon.heller@d...>
wrote:
> Electronics Weekly recently held a competition for designs using
the new
> PIC10F, the results have just been announced: http://www.electronicsweekly.com/articles/article.
asp?liArticleID=37176&liArticleTypeID=6&liCategory
ID=1&liChannelID=114&liFlavourID=1&sSearch=&nPage=1
>
> I was one of the winners. 8-)
>
> Leon
> --
> Leon Heller, G1HSM
> http://www.geocities.com/leon_heller



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Re: Re: PIC10F competition - Leon Heller - Aug 19 2:44:00 2004

----- Original Message -----
From: "Trent" <>
To: <>
Sent: Thursday, August 19, 2004 8:14 AM
Subject: [piclist] Re: PIC10F competition > Congratulations! Now you have to tell us though, has it improved your
> golf game? :D

I don't know much about golf. Whilst I was thinking about a suitable design
for the competition, golf was on the TV and I remembered something about
players keeping their heads still whilst hitting the ball. I will actually
build a prototype but I'll use an ATtiny11 AVR as I've actually got some of
them, and I don't have any PIC10Fs. I prefer the AVR architecture, anyway,
and having some more I/Os will make things easier.

Leon




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Re: PIC10F competition - Trent - Aug 19 3:11:00 2004

I don't want to get flamed or start a cpu war but I checked out
AVR's (lightly, looking at info on their website) and it seemed that
the AVR's didn't have any peripherals except timers and AD, did I
miss something? I have heard a lot of people say they liked AVR's
better for architecture. What is better about them? do you not
have to keep track of things like which bank you are accessing or
running code from, stuff like that? Being your standard enginerd
I'd get a few to play with but I didn't see the appeal at first
glance. What'd I miss?

Trent

--- In , "Leon Heller" <leon.heller@d...>
wrote:
>
> I don't know much about golf. Whilst I was thinking about a
suitable design
> for the competition, golf was on the TV and I remembered something
about
> players keeping their heads still whilst hitting the ball. I will
actually
> build a prototype but I'll use an ATtiny11 AVR as I've actually
got some of
> them, and I don't have any PIC10Fs. I prefer the AVR architecture,
anyway,
> and having some more I/Os will make things easier.
>
> Leon



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Re: Re: PIC10F competition - Leon Heller - Aug 19 3:39:00 2004

----- Original Message -----
From: "Trent" <>
To: <>
Sent: Thursday, August 19, 2004 9:11 AM
Subject: [piclist] Re: PIC10F competition > I don't want to get flamed or start a cpu war but I checked out
> AVR's (lightly, looking at info on their website) and it seemed that
> the AVR's didn't have any peripherals except timers and AD, did I
> miss something? I have heard a lot of people say they liked AVR's
> better for architecture. What is better about them? do you not
> have to keep track of things like which bank you are accessing or
> running code from, stuff like that? Being your standard enginerd
> I'd get a few to play with but I didn't see the appeal at first
> glance. What'd I miss?

Some advantages are:
(mostly) 1 clock per instruction
32 registers
no banks
easier ISP

Leon


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Re: PIC10F competition - Wilson - Aug 19 6:48:00 2004

Congratulations!!! ----- Original Message -----
From: "Leon Heller" <>
To: <>
Sent: Thursday, August 19, 2004 2:19 AM
Subject: [piclist] PIC10F competition >
> Electronics Weekly recently held a competition for designs using the new
> PIC10F, the results have just been announced: http://www.electronicsweekly.com/articles/article.asp?liArticleID=37176&liArticleTypeID=6&liCategoryID=1&liChannelID=114&liFlavourID=1&sSearch=&nPage=1
>
> I was one of the winners. 8-)
>
> Leon
> --
> Leon Heller, G1HSM
> http://www.geocities.com/leon_heller >
>
> to unsubscribe, go to http://www.yahoogroups.com and follow the
instructions
> Yahoo! Groups Links




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Re: Re: PIC10F competition - David Duley - Aug 19 10:42:00 2004

On Thu, 19 Aug 2004 09:39:46 +0100, you wrote: >----- Original Message -----
>From: "Trent" <>
>To: <>
>Sent: Thursday, August 19, 2004 9:11 AM
>Subject: [piclist] Re: PIC10F competition >> I don't want to get flamed or start a cpu war but I checked out
>> AVR's (lightly, looking at info on their website) and it seemed that
>> the AVR's didn't have any peripherals except timers and AD, did I
>> miss something? I have heard a lot of people say they liked AVR's
>> better for architecture. What is better about them? do you not
>> have to keep track of things like which bank you are accessing or
>> running code from, stuff like that? Being your standard enginerd
>> I'd get a few to play with but I didn't see the appeal at first
>> glance. What'd I miss?
>
>Some advantages are:
> (mostly) 1 clock per instruction
> 32 registers
> no banks
> easier ISP
>
>Leon
Don't forget a way better instruction set.

Dave Duley




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Re: PIC10F competition - t402_owner - Aug 20 3:26:00 2004

golf swing gadget ... meter er... thingy?... :-) Way cool! Congrats!

btw did you read about the guy who sent over 30 designs ? amazing...

i thought of sending something - a light operated burglar alarm that
would continuously check the level of luminosity against a 10 minute
average - but somewhat lost interest in the process (not that
original either...)

Anyway just to say... well done! :-)

Cheers

Fernando
Portsmouth, UK
--- In , "Leon Heller" <leon.heller@d...>
wrote:
> Electronics Weekly recently held a competition for designs using
the new
> PIC10F, the results have just been announced:
>
> http://www.electronicsweekly.com/articles/article.asp?
liArticleID=37176&liArticleTypeID=6&liCategoryID=1&liChannelID=114&liF
lavourID=1&sSearch=&nPage=1
>
> I was one of the winners. 8-)
>
> Leon
> --
> Leon Heller, G1HSM
> http://www.geocities.com/leon_heller




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Re: PIC10F competition - Dennis Clark - Aug 28 18:34:00 2004

The AVR has a better instruction set for high level programming
I think. Although the new 18F PIC series has greatly improved
their instruction set giving you access to the stack (also check
out the dsPIC stuff for even better support) and allowing you to
get access directly to FLASH memory for table moves and such.
The AVRs don't segment their data and code spaces requiring
bank switching (again, the 18F does not bank switch the code, but
does bank switch some of the data memory).

The AVR is faster due to a better pipeline I think, but again,
the PIC seems to be catching up there too with the 18F parts.

The one BIG difference that gives the AVRs a negative to me is
that Atmel doesn't hold a candle to Microchip for engineering
support and while Microchip never obsoletes a part, Atmel seems
to change parts and obsolete old lines almost at the drop of a
hat. That and I STILL seem to have problems getting some AVR
parts...

IMO,
DLC --- In , David Duley <dduley@d...> wrote:
> On Thu, 19 Aug 2004 09:39:46 +0100, you wrote:
>
> >
> >----- Original Message -----
> >From: "Trent" <scoobytw@y...>
> >To: <>
> >Sent: Thursday, August 19, 2004 9:11 AM
> >Subject: [piclist] Re: PIC10F competition
> >
> >
> >> I don't want to get flamed or start a cpu war but I checked out
> >> AVR's (lightly, looking at info on their website) and it seemed that
> >> the AVR's didn't have any peripherals except timers and AD, did I
> >> miss something? I have heard a lot of people say they liked AVR's
> >> better for architecture. What is better about them? do you not
> >> have to keep track of things like which bank you are accessing or
> >> running code from, stuff like that? Being your standard enginerd
> >> I'd get a few to play with but I didn't see the appeal at first
> >> glance. What'd I miss?
> >
> >Some advantages are:
> > (mostly) 1 clock per instruction
> > 32 registers
> > no banks
> > easier ISP
> >
> >Leon
> Don't forget a way better instruction set.
>
> Dave Duley




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Re: Re: PIC10F competition - Roy E. Burrage - Aug 29 5:36:00 2004

When Atmel obsoletes a part there is a pin compatible replacement that has more functionality.  Examples of this would be replacing the 90S1200/2313 with the ATTiny26 and 90S8535 with the ATMega8535.  Comparable tools are also less expensive in general.  Compare the cost of an STK500 with that of a DV164006.

You're correct that they're getting closer with the 18F series, but there are still the issues of 4:1 clock:instruction cycles and the accumulator (W) register.  I'll take 32 working registers over an accumulator any day.

To be sure, Microchip's sample policy is probably a bit easier but 5 or 10 dollars for a part isn't a big deal.

REB

Dennis Clark wrote: 
The AVR has a better instruction set for high level programming
I think. Although the new 18F PIC series has greatly improved
their instruction set giving you access to the stack (also check
out the dsPIC stuff for even better support) and allowing you to
get access directly to FLASH memory for table moves and such.
The AVRs don't segment their data and code spaces requiring bank switching (again, the
18F does not bank switch the code, but
does bank switch some of the data memory).
The AVR is faster due to a better pipeline I think, but again,
the PIC seems to be catching up there too with the 18F parts.
The one BIG difference that gives the AVRs a negative to me is that Atmel doesn't hold a
candle to Microchip for engineering
support and while Microchip never obsoletes a part, Atmel seems
to change parts and obsolete old lines almost at the drop of a hat. That and I STILL seem
to have problems getting some AVR
parts...
IMO,
DLC
--- In p...@yahoogroups.com, David Duley <dduley@d...> wrote:

On Thu, 19 Aug 2004 09:39:46 +0100, you wrote:

----- Original Message ----- From: "Trent" <scoobytw@y...>
To: <p...@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, August 19, 2004 9:11 AM
Subject: [piclist] Re: PIC10F competition

I don't want to get flamed or start a cpu war but I checked out AVR's (lightly,
looking at info on their website) and it seemed that the AVR's didn't have any peripherals
except timers and AD, did I miss something? I have heard a lot of people say they liked
AVR's better for architecture. What is better about them? do you not have to keep track of
things like which bank you are accessing or running code from, stuff like that? Being your
standard enginerd I'd get a few to play with but I didn't see the appeal at first glance.
What'd I miss?

Some advantages are:
(mostly) 1 clock per instruction
32 registers
no banks
easier ISP
Leon

Don't forget a way better instruction set.
Dave Duley


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Re: Re: PIC10F competition - Matt Pobursky - Aug 29 10:13:00 2004

On Sun, 29 Aug 2004 06:36:31 -0400, Roy E. Burrage wrote:
> Comparable tools are also less expensive in general.  Compare the
> cost of an STK500 with that of a DV164006.

To be fair, you're not comparing apples to apples. With the STK500 you
are getting a "development board" that can program *some* AVR parts,
some require an additional cost STK501 or STK502 module. The STK500 is
not exactly compact and portable either.

On the Microchip side, the DV164006 includes an ICD2 *and* a PICDEM2
development board. The ICD2 will pretty much program any PIC through
ICSP and debug any flash based part with on-chip debugging, no adapters
required except for some of the very low pin count devices. You also
get the ICD2 which is in a case and very portable.

They are both very similar in cost -- $100-$250 in cost to get started,
both low cost by my account. You get a bit more flexibility with
Microchip, Atmel gives you a slightly lower cost entry (but I can't see
the difference being significant for anyone that's serious about doing
development work on an ongoing basis).

There's a real question as to the availability of parts though. Atmel
doesn't have the fab capacity of Microchip. Atmel will put parts on
allocation at the drop of a hat once their fab facilities are loaded.
Over the 15 years or so I've used Microchip parts I've never had a
problem getting production quantities of parts, I can't say the same
about Atmel. In fact, I had a couple good years in the late 90's re-
designing products for clients that had Atmel parts made of
"Unobatanium" and replacing them with equivalent PICs that were readily
available.

Microchip parts tend to be slightly cheaper in production quantities
than Atmel chips with the equivalent functionality too. Also, Microchip
has a much better peripheral spread in their chips -- you can almost
always get a PIC with *exactly* the peripherals you need for a given
design. Atmel is more limited in your options since they have much
fewer chip models to choose from.

I know there are a lot of hobbyists out there in both camps, but quite
honestly neither chip company is there to serve them. It's all about
*selling* chips and they'll both go where they sell the most chips.
Yes, it's an advantage to get hobbyists and students on-board with
their chips, but it's a minor consideration next to where the volume
sales are. Both companies are relatively "hobbyist friendly", as
compared to Motorola (or whatever they are calling themselves these
days) for instance.

That all said, they are both good microcontroller families that each
have their strengths and weaknesses.

Matt Pobursky
Maximum Performance Systems



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Re: Re: PIC10F competition - Chad Russel - Aug 29 10:38:00 2004

Number wars can be interesting. Especially in the software arena.
Figures don't lie, but liars can figure. :-)

Software benchmarks, I don't put much trust in. It is what you are
comfortable with, and what gets the job done. One instruction set may
be better at one type of application, the other better at a different
application. They are probably are both reasonably good having been
developed specifically for microcontroller, unlike the Intel line which
has maintained compatibility(to their credit), but at an extreme cost.
The little quirks of the original 4004 which were there to fully
utilize hardware(forget software for now) still haunt your P4.

I am more concerned about hardware. There you can see some posturing
in data sheets. I glanced at one(I hope represtentative) data sheet
from Atmel and Microchip, and just a few parameters. I see Atmel has
max IO current of 40 ma. I thought great, I could use that. However,
IO port current limit is 100 ma vs. 200 ma. and VSS/VDD current limit
is 200 ma. vs. 250/300 ma., so be careful out there. The really
interesting number I saw on the Atmel sheet was that maximum leakage
current on a typical pin is 980 na. and Microchip is way up there at 1
ua.

Chad --- "Roy E. Burrage" <> wrote:

> When Atmel obsoletes a part there is a pin compatible replacement
> that
> has more functionality. Examples of this would be replacing the
> 90S1200/2313 with the ATTiny26 and 90S8535 with the ATMega8535.
> Comparable tools are also less expensive in general. Compare the
> cost
> of an STK500 with that of a DV164006.
>
> You're correct that they're getting closer with the 18F series, but
> there are still the issues of 4:1 clock:instruction cycles and the
> accumulator (W) register. I'll take 32 working registers over an
> accumulator any day.
>
> To be sure, Microchip's sample policy is probably a bit easier but 5
> or
> 10 dollars for a part isn't a big deal.
>
> REB
>
> Dennis Clark wrote:
>
> >The AVR has a better instruction set for high level programming
> >I think. Although the new 18F PIC series has greatly improved
> >their instruction set giving you access to the stack (also check
> >out the dsPIC stuff for even better support) and allowing you to
> >get access directly to FLASH memory for table moves and such.
> >The AVRs don't segment their data and code spaces requiring
> >bank switching (again, the 18F does not bank switch the code, but
> >does bank switch some of the data memory).
> >
> >The AVR is faster due to a better pipeline I think, but again,
> >the PIC seems to be catching up there too with the 18F parts.
> >
> >The one BIG difference that gives the AVRs a negative to me is
> >that Atmel doesn't hold a candle to Microchip for engineering
> >support and while Microchip never obsoletes a part, Atmel seems
> >to change parts and obsolete old lines almost at the drop of a
> >hat. That and I STILL seem to have problems getting some AVR
> >parts...
> >
> >IMO,
> >DLC
> >
> >
> >--- In , David Duley <dduley@d...> wrote:
> >
> >
> >>On Thu, 19 Aug 2004 09:39:46 +0100, you wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>>----- Original Message -----
> >>>From: "Trent" <scoobytw@y...>
> >>>To: <>
> >>>Sent: Thursday, August 19, 2004 9:11 AM
> >>>Subject: [piclist] Re: PIC10F competition
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>I don't want to get flamed or start a cpu war but I checked out
> >>>>AVR's (lightly, looking at info on their website) and it seemed
> that
> >>>>the AVR's didn't have any peripherals except timers and AD, did I
>
> >>>>miss something? I have heard a lot of people say they liked
> AVR's
> >>>>better for architecture. What is better about them? do you not
> >>>>have to keep track of things like which bank you are accessing or
>
> >>>>running code from, stuff like that? Being your standard enginerd
>
> >>>>I'd get a few to play with but I didn't see the appeal at first
> >>>>glance. What'd I miss?
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>Some advantages are:
> >>> (mostly) 1 clock per instruction
> >>> 32 registers
> >>> no banks
> >>> easier ISP
> >>>
> >>>Leon
> >>>
> >>>
> >>Don't forget a way better instruction set.
> >>
> >>Dave Duley
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >to unsubscribe, go to http://www.yahoogroups.com and follow the
> instructions
> >Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> =====
My software has no bugs, only undocumented features.
__________________________________


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RE: Re: PIC10F competition - Wouter van Ooijen - Aug 29 10:39:00 2004

> The really
> interesting number I saw on the Atmel sheet was that maximum leakage
> current on a typical pin is 980 na. and Microchip is way up there at 1
> ua.

Am I too rusty in my powers of 10 or is this just a difference 2% ?

Wouter van Ooijen

-- -------------------------------------------
Van Ooijen Technische Informatica: www.voti.nl
consultancy, development, PICmicro products





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RE: Re: PIC10F competition - Mr S - Aug 29 12:30:00 2004

It looks like 2% to me?
18 pins = something like < 15uamps on a PIC if ground
and Vcc do not have leakage.

Same size Atmel would be < 14.7 uamps?

Why is that interesting? Does either have a 'sleep
mode' with zero leakage? That would be interesting?
--- Wouter van Ooijen <> wrote:

> > The really
> > interesting number I saw on the Atmel sheet was
> that maximum leakage
> > current on a typical pin is 980 na. and Microchip
> is way up there at 1
> > ua.
>
> Am I too rusty in my powers of 10 or is this just a
> difference 2% ?
>
> Wouter van Ooijen
>
> -- -------------------------------------------
> Van Ooijen Technische Informatica: www.voti.nl
> consultancy, development, PICmicro products >
>
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__________________________________________________
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RE: Re: PIC10F competition - Carlos Marcano - Aug 29 13:04:00 2004

> > The really
> > interesting number I saw on the Atmel sheet was that maximum leakage
> > current on a typical pin is 980 na. and Microchip is way up there at 1
> > ua.
>
> Am I too rusty in my powers of 10 or is this just a difference 2% ?
>
> Wouter van Ooijen I had the same thought and I am not too old to be rusty about anything!

*Carlos Marcano*
-Guri, Venezuela-
---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.745 / Virus Database: 497 - Release Date: 27/08/04




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RE: Re: PIC10F competition - Chad Russel - Aug 29 13:16:00 2004

I thought it interesting that they would bother to take the 2% and 2
extra digits, so as to be able to use nano rather than rounding it to 1
micro. :p

Chad

--- Carlos Marcano <> wrote: >
> >
> > > The really
> > > interesting number I saw on the Atmel sheet was that maximum
> leakage
> > > current on a typical pin is 980 na. and Microchip is way up there
> at 1
> > > ua.
> >
> > Am I too rusty in my powers of 10 or is this just a difference 2% ?
> >
> > Wouter van Ooijen
> >
>
> I had the same thought and I am not too old to be rusty about
> anything!
>
> *Carlos Marcano*
> -Guri, Venezuela-
> ---
=====
My software has no bugs, only undocumented features.
__________________________________





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Re: Re: PIC10F competition - Michael Puchol - Aug 29 14:18:00 2004

Hi Matt,

I agree completely with what you say. In my case, Atmel has chosen local
reps that completely ignore potential costumers, requests for samples made
via Atmel's site are automatically forwarded to them, which means they are
promply ignored. So, any request for sample parts is an ordeal which makes a
costumer fear what he'll have to go through to get production quantities.
Imagine what a student will have to go through.

Microchip, however, has an EXCELLENT sample parts request system, it's
convenient, fast (most of the time if parts are in stock, longest it has
taken for me was 2 1/2 weeks), and you can get quite a few different parts
for testing what's best for your design, no questions asked.

One thing I learned when I was an engineering student was that companies
that give students facilities to use their products or services in their
research or projects are likely to get bussiness from them when (and if)
they end up in some company's development team. "Yeah, when I was a student,
Microchip was excellent, they sent me sample parts with no problems, whereas
Atmel completely ignored me". I've seen this happen, not with
Atmel/Microchip, but with other manufacturers. I think manufacturers should
be very aware that students will be tomorrow's engineers, managers, purchase
department heads, etc. etc.

Best regards,

Mike ----- Original Message -----
From: "Matt Pobursky" <>
To: <>
Sent: Sunday, August 29, 2004 5:13 PM
Subject: Re: [piclist] Re: PIC10F competition > To be fair, you're not comparing apples to apples. With the STK500 you
> are getting a "development board" that can program *some* AVR parts,
> some require an additional cost STK501 or STK502 module. The STK500 is
> not exactly compact and portable either.

<SNIP





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Re: Re: PIC10F competition - Michael Puchol - Aug 29 17:36:00 2004

Hi,

"rtstofer" <> Wrote:

> The devices chosen for a design will ALWAYS come down to the least
> expensive device capable of doing the job at hand. Engineers don't
> choose devices, Purchasing does. Who cares how nice they treated
> you in college - if the company needs 100,000+ parts Purchasing will
> be making the choices, with or without input from Engineering -
> engineers probably won't even be invited to the meetings. Ever
> notice how the Sales people come to talk to engineers but always
> want to know who is making the decisions? They know full well it
> isn't Engineering.

This is true, but very very sad. This is also why we see so many crappy,
buggy and unstable products on the market more and more often. There was a
time when the engineer chose the tool, and purchasing bought it, but asked
the engineer if they thought a cheaper one could also do. Now, as you say,
they don't bother asking. A good engineer, however, will always use the
cheapest possible part that will do the job too, and won't choose the latest
chip just because it's cool.

> At the end of the day, its about profit margin - for everyone. A
> product has a price target and competition to keep it there; every
> bit of manufacturing cost that can be driven out, will be. So what
> if the engineering time and programming expense is a little higher
> if a company can get lower production costs and higher margins?
> Engineering is an expense; a side issue of getting the product out
> the door.

But if the product is inferior, in the long run it will be worse for the
company image - the sad thing too is that a lot of companies are relying on
cheap labor, usually students not having finished their degrees, to design
their products. Yes, they should be supervised, but more often than not,
they are given a job and told to 'get on with it'. Who is going to bother
checking the hundreds or thousands of lines of code this inexperienced
person has written? If they had to double-check everything, they wouldn't
bother getting these people in the first place. Note: I have nothing against
work experience while you are a student or just come out of faculty, but I
don't agree with putting them at the wheel unsupervised.

Best regards,

Mike





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RE: Re: PIC10F competition - Vasile Surducan - Aug 30 2:41:00 2004


Leackage is a trick often understandable just by the analog engineers.
That's maybe why, on a software discussion group noone will stop to answer
to your question. That current does not matter for the sleep state
comparable with the microcontroller sourced current.
But it is very important for the AD input impedance or for the DA
conversion using filtered PWM. Probably for the comparator inputs too.
Knowing exactly the AD input leackage you know for instance that can go
much higher than 20K (or 10K for some PICs) input impedance, value that
Microchip is strongly suggesting in the datasheet.
That means sometime you don't need buffers. And that means for 1K
product will be cheaper because will be a smaller pcb, less components to
solder etc.

top 10 wishes,
Vasile
http://surducan.netfirms.com On Sun, 29 Aug 2004, Mr S wrote:

> It looks like 2% to me?
> 18 pins = something like < 15uamps on a PIC if ground
> and Vcc do not have leakage.
>
> Same size Atmel would be < 14.7 uamps?
>
> Why is that interesting? Does either have a 'sleep
> mode' with zero leakage? That would be interesting? >
> --- Wouter van Ooijen <> wrote:
>
> > > The really
> > > interesting number I saw on the Atmel sheet was
> > that maximum leakage
> > > current on a typical pin is 980 na. and Microchip
> > is way up there at 1
> > > ua.
> >
> > Am I too rusty in my powers of 10 or is this just a
> > difference 2% ?
> >
> > Wouter van Ooijen
> >
> > -- -------------------------------------------
> > Van Ooijen Technische Informatica: www.voti.nl
> > consultancy, development, PICmicro products
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
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RE: Re: PIC10F competition - Mr S - Aug 30 7:42:00 2004

Vasile,
Thank you, leakage current on the analog i/o makes
sense now, and IS interesting.

Cheers

--- Vasile Surducan <> wrote: > Leackage is a trick often understandable just by the
> analog engineers.
> That's maybe why, on a software discussion group
> noone will stop to answer
> to your question. That current does not matter for
> the sleep state
> comparable with the microcontroller sourced current.
> But it is very important for the AD input impedance
> or for the DA
> conversion using filtered PWM. Probably for the
> comparator inputs too.
> Knowing exactly the AD input leackage you know for
> instance that can go
> much higher than 20K (or 10K for some PICs) input
> impedance, value that
> Microchip is strongly suggesting in the datasheet.
> That means sometime you don't need buffers. And that
> means for 1K
> product will be cheaper because will be a smaller
> pcb, less components to
> solder etc.
>
> top 10 wishes,
> Vasile
> http://surducan.netfirms.com > On Sun, 29 Aug 2004, Mr S wrote:
>
> > It looks like 2% to me?
> > 18 pins = something like < 15uamps on a PIC if
> ground
> > and Vcc do not have leakage.
> >
> > Same size Atmel would be < 14.7 uamps?
> >
> > Why is that interesting? Does either have a 'sleep
> > mode' with zero leakage? That would be
> interesting?
> >
> >
> >
> > --- Wouter van Ooijen <> wrote:
> >
> > > > The really
> > > > interesting number I saw on the Atmel sheet
> was
> > > that maximum leakage
> > > > current on a typical pin is 980 na. and
> Microchip
> > > is way up there at 1
> > > > ua.
> > >
> > > Am I too rusty in my powers of 10 or is this
> just a
> > > difference 2% ?
> > >
> > > Wouter van Ooijen
> > >
> > > -- -------------------------------------------
> > > Van Ooijen Technische Informatica: www.voti.nl
> > > consultancy, development, PICmicro products
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
> > >
> > >
> > > to unsubscribe, go to http://www.yahoogroups.com
> and
> > > follow the instructions
> > > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > __________________________________________________
> > ">http://mail.yahoo.com
> >
> >
> >
> > to unsubscribe, go to http://www.yahoogroups.com
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Re: Re: PIC10F competition - Leon Heller - Aug 31 2:46:00 2004

----- Original Message -----
From: "t402_owner" <>
To: <>
Sent: Friday, August 20, 2004 9:26 AM
Subject: [piclist] Re: PIC10F competition > golf swing gadget ... meter er... thingy?... :-) Way cool! Congrats!
>
> btw did you read about the guy who sent over 30 designs ? amazing...
>
> i thought of sending something - a light operated burglar alarm that
> would continuously check the level of luminosity against a 10 minute
> average - but somewhat lost interest in the process (not that
> original either...)
>
> Anyway just to say... well done! :-)

Thanks. I have subsequently found a similar device on the web (using a
3-axis accelerometer), but it's *much* more complex, larger and quite
expensive.

The PICkit 1 prize has given me a few ideas for interesting applications
using the 12F675.

Leon
--
Leon Heller, G1HSM
http://www.geocities.com/leon_heller



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