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Discussion Groups | Piclist | Re: I need advice..new to pics :-)

A discussion group for the PICMicro microcontroller. Also called the Microchip PIC, this list is dedicated to the use and abuse of this fine, simple, microcontroller. Close to topic posts are welcome, ie. general electronics.

I need advice..new to pics :-) - oi2all - Sep 16 20:15:00 2004

Hi :-)

I work in a field called FES (Functional Electrical Stimulation)
Basically I need to design a new portable muscle stimulator that
can be programmed to deliver .1ms-3ms length pulses to 2 small
opto-isolator chips. I need to be able to create a train of pulses
to the isolators at a rate up to 120 pulses per second... in order
to end up with a bi-lateral pulse train (pulsed ac square wave).

Currently I use an assembler program I wrote for the PC that delivers
such a series of pulses via the lpt port to 2 opto-isolators that
drive
a simple H-bridge.

Is the pic processor a good choice to make a self-contained device
that can do such a thing?

Can a pic chip maintain reasonable accuracy on the length of the
pulses? Say a 1.0ms pulse would be delivered reliably within a range
of 0.95ms-1.05ms





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Re: I need advice..new to pics :-) - Kees Stenekes - Sep 17 8:49:00 2004

oi!

Absolutely, you could use the cheapest PIC12f629 for
it and the accuracy needed depends on the choice of
oscilator. Furthermore PIC's consume very little power
so a 'self-contained' device with just a battery will
last for hours and hours (and hours if programmed
well) (and even more hours if the LP-version is used).

Kees

--- oi2all <> wrote:

> Hi :-)
>
> I work in a field called FES (Functional Electrical
> Stimulation)
> Basically I need to design a new portable muscle
> stimulator that
> can be programmed to deliver .1ms-3ms length pulses
> to 2 small
> opto-isolator chips. I need to be able to create a
> train of pulses
> to the isolators at a rate up to 120 pulses per
> second... in order
> to end up with a bi-lateral pulse train (pulsed ac
> square wave).
>
> Currently I use an assembler program I wrote for the
> PC that delivers
> such a series of pulses via the lpt port to 2
> opto-isolators that
> drive
> a simple H-bridge.
>
> Is the pic processor a good choice to make a
> self-contained device
> that can do such a thing?
>
> Can a pic chip maintain reasonable accuracy on the
> length of the
> pulses? Say a 1.0ms pulse would be delivered
> reliably within a range
> of 0.95ms-1.05ms

__________________________________


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Re: I need advice..new to pics :-) - Phil - Sep 17 11:25:00 2004

The suggestion of the 12F629/675 family is a reasonable one. From what
you described any PIC, even the new 10F (6 pins) series would do. The
software is pretty easy and if you use a crystal you can get extremely
accurate timings.

If cost is not a big factor ($1 vs $3 or so), you might want to look
at the 14 and 18 pin PICs. (16F630, 16F688, 16F628A, 16F819, 16F88).
They have a number of features including ADC and serial I/O. Not to
mention more I/O pins. The 16F88 is nice because you can use a
bootloader and reprogram the thing via a serial cable.

Also, I'd take a look at how to use the EEPROM in the PIC. Its very
usefull for storing configuration information and if you have serial
I/O, you can write code to change the configuration on the fly.

--- In , "oi2all" <oi2all@y...> wrote:
> Hi :-)
>
> I work in a field called FES (Functional Electrical Stimulation)
> Basically I need to design a new portable muscle stimulator that
> can be programmed to deliver .1ms-3ms length pulses to 2 small
> opto-isolator chips. I need to be able to create a train of pulses
> to the isolators at a rate up to 120 pulses per second... in order
> to end up with a bi-lateral pulse train (pulsed ac square wave).
>
> Currently I use an assembler program I wrote for the PC that delivers
> such a series of pulses via the lpt port to 2 opto-isolators that
> drive
> a simple H-bridge.
>
> Is the pic processor a good choice to make a self-contained device
> that can do such a thing?
>
> Can a pic chip maintain reasonable accuracy on the length of the
> pulses? Say a 1.0ms pulse would be delivered reliably within a range
> of 0.95ms-1.05ms




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Re: I need advice..new to pics :-) - oi2all - Sep 17 11:52:00 2004

Thanks for all the good suggestions :-)

Now all I need do is find a good hardware/software setup
for a newbie like me.... any suggestions? also any suggestions
for reading materials/websites that will give me a good start? --- In , "Phil" <phil1960us@y...> wrote:
> The suggestion of the 12F629/675 family is a reasonable one. From
what
> you described any PIC, even the new 10F (6 pins) series would do.
The
> software is pretty easy and if you use a crystal you can get
extremely
> accurate timings.
>
> If cost is not a big factor ($1 vs $3 or so), you might want to look
> at the 14 and 18 pin PICs. (16F630, 16F688, 16F628A, 16F819,
16F88).
> They have a number of features including ADC and serial I/O. Not to
> mention more I/O pins. The 16F88 is nice because you can use a
> bootloader and reprogram the thing via a serial cable.
>
> Also, I'd take a look at how to use the EEPROM in the PIC. Its very
> usefull for storing configuration information and if you have serial
> I/O, you can write code to change the configuration on the fly.





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RE: Re: I need advice..new to pics :-) - Wouter van Ooijen - Sep 17 12:44:00 2004

> Thanks for all the good suggestions :-)
>
> Now all I need do is find a good hardware/software setup
> for a newbie like me.... any suggestions? also any suggestions
> for reading materials/websites that will give me a good start?

http://www.voti.nl/swp and read the rest of my website too :)

For advice on a good startup you must specify your cost/time ratio. If
(relatively) high and ICD2 might be a good idea, if (very) low try
www.ic-prog.com for various very cheap (but not always reliable)
do-it-youlself programmers. My Wisp628 fits somewehere inbetween, along
with several others.

And that was only programmer hardware...

Wouter van Ooijen

-- -------------------------------------------
Van Ooijen Technische Informatica: www.voti.nl
consultancy, development, PICmicro products
docent Hogeschool van Utrecht: www.voti.nl/hvu




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Re: Re: I need advice..new to pics :-) - Peter van Hoof - Sep 17 19:12:00 2004

I would look in to the pickit1 for 8 to 14 pin pic's
Digikey and others have it for $36
http://www.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?Detail?Ref=201620&Row=247988&Site=US

you can program and learn on this , led's on board for
testing and it comes with an 8 pin pic to start
inmediately.

Another thing i can recomend for a beginner is pic
simulator ide (free trial , $19 for home licence) from
http://www.oshonsoft.com it's a nice simulator and
simple basic compiler ...much easyer to use than mplab
from microchip

Peter
--- oi2all <> wrote:

> Thanks for all the good suggestions :-)
>
> Now all I need do is find a good hardware/software
> setup
> for a newbie like me.... any suggestions? also any
> suggestions
> for reading materials/websites that will give me a
> good start? > --- In , "Phil"
> <phil1960us@y...> wrote:
> > The suggestion of the 12F629/675 family is a
> reasonable one. From
> what
> > you described any PIC, even the new 10F (6 pins)
> series would do.
> The
> > software is pretty easy and if you use a crystal
> you can get
> extremely
> > accurate timings.
> >
> > If cost is not a big factor ($1 vs $3 or so), you
> might want to look
> > at the 14 and 18 pin PICs. (16F630, 16F688,
> 16F628A, 16F819,
> 16F88).
> > They have a number of features including ADC and
> serial I/O. Not to
> > mention more I/O pins. The 16F88 is nice because
> you can use a
> > bootloader and reprogram the thing via a serial
> cable.
> >
> > Also, I'd take a look at how to use the EEPROM in
> the PIC. Its very
> > usefull for storing configuration information and
> if you have serial
> > I/O, you can write code to change the
> configuration on the fly.
>
__________________________________


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Re: Re: I need advice..new to pics :-) - hafizul effendi - Sep 17 19:26:00 2004

i use Proteus as a simulator....it is very good

Peter van Hoof <p...@yahoo.com> wrote:
I would look in to the pickit1 for 8 to 14 pin pic's
Digikey and others have it for $36
http://www.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?Detail?Ref=201620&Row=247988&Site=US

you can program and learn on this , led's on board for
testing and it comes with an 8 pin pic to start
inmediately.

Another thing i can recomend for a beginner is pic
simulator ide (free trial , $19 for home licence) from
http://www.oshonsoft.com it's a nice simulator and
simple basic compiler ...much easyer to use than mplab
from microchip

Peter
--- oi2all <o...@yahoo.com> wrote:

> Thanks for all the good suggestions :-)
>
> Now all I need do is find a good hardware/software
> setup
> for a newbie like me.... any suggestions?  also any
> suggestions
> for reading materials/websites that will give me a
> good start?> --- In p...@yahoogroups.com, "Phil"
> <phil1960us@y...> wrote:
> > The suggestion of the 12F629/675 family is a
> reasonable one. From
> what
> > you described any PIC, even the new 10F (6 pins)
> series would do.
> The
> > software is pretty easy and if you use a crystal
> you can get
> extremely
> > accurate timings.
> >
> > If cost is not a big factor ($1 vs $3 or so), you
> might want to look
> > at the 14 and 18 pin PICs. (16F630, 16F688,
> 16F628A, 16F819,
> 16F88).
> > They have a number of features including ADC and
> serial I/O. Not to
> > mention more I/O pins.  The 16F88 is nice because
> you can use a
> > bootloader and reprogram the thing via a serial
> cable.
> >
> > Also, I'd take a look at how to use the EEPROM in
> the PIC.  Its very
> > usefull for storing configuration information and
> if you have serial
> > I/O, you can write code to change the
> configuration on the fly.
>            
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Re: I need advice..new to pics :-) - oi2all - Sep 18 2:24:00 2004

Thanks for your comments :-)

I have been looking around the web and found a site that recommends
the 16F84 and 12C508A for pic newbies to experiment with.
http://www4.tpg.com.au/users/talking/index_of_chapters.html

This little pic chip looks like a lot of fun! I wonder if I could
get it to handle my project?

Can the ouputs on this little pic source the drive LED inside
of your typical opto-isolator chip?

BTW is there a pic that can write to it's own memory..either flash or
eeprom??? If there was it could really add a new dimension to my
planned low-cost muscle stimulator for physical therapy use. It
could be programmed in the field for new stim patterns...cool! --- In , Kees Stenekes <knalkeez@y...> wrote:
> oi!
>
> Absolutely, you could use the cheapest PIC12f629 for
> it and the accuracy needed depends on the choice of
> oscilator. Furthermore PIC's consume very little power
> so a 'self-contained' device with just a battery will
> last for hours and hours (and hours if programmed
> well) (and even more hours if the LP-version is used).
>
> Kees





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RE: Re: I need advice..new to pics :-) - Wouter van Ooijen - Sep 18 2:33:00 2004

> I have been looking around the web and found a site that recommends
> the 16F84 and 12C508A for pic newbies to experiment with.
> http://www4.tpg.com.au/users/talking/index_of_chapters.html

That must be a very old page. Using the 12C nowadays is plain stupid
(except for building an existing project) because these are one-time
programmeable chips. The successor is the 12F629/12F675, or (when it
becomes available) the 12F508/12F509.

Using the 16F84 for anything but re-building existing projects is also
stupid because better chips exist that are much cheaper. For a simple
chip consider the 16F630, for a more capable chip consider the 16F688,
16F88, 16F877A, or switch to the 16-bit cores like the 18F452.

Wouter van Ooijen

-- -------------------------------------------
Van Ooijen Technische Informatica: www.voti.nl
consultancy, development, PICmicro products
docent Hogeschool van Utrecht: www.voti.nl/hvu





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Re: I need advice..new to pics :-) - oi2all - Sep 18 3:07:00 2004

Thanks Wouter :-)

Just took a look at your website...VERY impressive!
Lots of good stuff there.

The 18F452 that your site lists as a 1st choice for a new
pic programmer looks promising...and at 10$ is reasonably cheap.
And if the 12F629 can manage the rather simple things I need to
do then it is at a give-away price...nice.

Guess I should spring for a programmer that can handle these 2 chips
and start reading some books :-)

I wonder if there are some simulators for these chips?

I'm thinking..
-USB chip programmer with a ZIF socket
-Software emulator for the chips
-Prototype board for the chips
Is what I need for a starter..

--- In , "Wouter van Ooijen" <wouter@v...>
wrote:
> > I have been looking around the web and found a site that
recommends
> > the 16F84 and 12C508A for pic newbies to experiment with.
> > http://www4.tpg.com.au/users/talking/index_of_chapters.html
>
> That must be a very old page. Using the 12C nowadays is plain stupid
> (except for building an existing project) because these are one-time
> programmeable chips. The successor is the 12F629/12F675, or (when it
> becomes available) the 12F508/12F509.
>
> Using the 16F84 for anything but re-building existing projects is
also
> stupid because better chips exist that are much cheaper. For a
simple
> chip consider the 16F630, for a more capable chip consider the
16F688,
> 16F88, 16F877A, or switch to the 16-bit cores like the 18F452.
>
> Wouter van Ooijen
>
> -- -------------------------------------------
> Van Ooijen Technische Informatica: www.voti.nl
> consultancy, development, PICmicro products
> docent Hogeschool van Utrecht: www.voti.nl/hvu




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RE: Re: I need advice..new to pics :-) - Wouter van Ooijen - Sep 18 3:47:00 2004

> I wonder if there are some simulators for these chips?

I find simulators of very limited use. MPLAB has a build-in simulator,
there gpsim (open source), and there are commercial ones. Except for
your very first steps (to see what those instructions realy do) I would
guess you will seldom use a simulator. But

> I'm thinking..
> -USB chip programmer with a ZIF socket
> -Software emulator for the chips
> -Prototype board for the chips
> Is what I need for a starter..

Forget the ZIF, go for ICSP.

Wouter van Ooijen

-- -------------------------------------------
Van Ooijen Technische Informatica: www.voti.nl
consultancy, development, PICmicro products
docent Hogeschool van Utrecht: www.voti.nl/hvu




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Re: Re: I need advice..new to pics :-) - Paul Snuggs - Sep 22 16:58:00 2004

Try www.fored.co.uk for a good simulator and USB programmer/ICD.
Paul.
> -USB chip programmer with a ZIF socket
> -Software emulator for the chips
> -Prototype board for the chips



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