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Discussion Groups | Piclist | 16f877 cant use ICSP
A discussion group for the PICMicro microcontroller. Also called the Microchip PIC, this list is dedicated to the use and abuse of this fine, simple, microcontroller. Close to topic posts are welcome, ie. general electronics.
16f877 cant use ICSP - Author Unknown - Nov 13 23:31:00 2004
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I have built an ICSP programmer that has worked fine fro my 16f84a both onthe board and in their circuits. But now i picked up some 877's and 16f88's. both support HVP and LVP. In the doc's it states HVP is active all the time and works with standard HVP programmers. I tried pulling rbs(PGM) to ground, no effect I stepped through the signals and all voltages are normal. though rb6 and rb7 only hit 3.37VDC. ill try to pull these up more. other then that, no idea. is there something else i may have missed? Michael |
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RE: 16f877 cant use ICSP - Wouter van Ooijen - Nov 14 3:17:00 2004
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> I have built an ICSP programmer that has worked fine fro my 16f84a > both onthe board and in their circuits. But now i picked up some 877's > and 16f88's. both support HVP and LVP. In the doc's it states HVP is > active all the time and works with standard HVP programmers. The 877 (not the 877A!) is sufficiently like the F84A that most programming methods can use both. The F88 is definitely different. > I tried pulling rbs(PGM) to ground, no effect > I stepped through the signals and all voltages are normal. though rb6 > and rb7 only hit 3.37VDC. That is very strange. I suspect you did something very wrong, like applying Ground/Vcc or MCLR to the wrong oinsw? Does the programmer (and its software) state that the 877 and/or F88 are supported? Do you use a nice and clean +5Volt? Wouter van Ooijen -- ------------------------------------------- Van Ooijen Technische Informatica: www.voti.nl consultancy, development, PICmicro products docent Hogeschool van Utrecht: www.voti.nl/hvu |
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Re: 16f877 cant use ICSP - Author Unknown - Nov 14 10:31:00 2004
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Sorry, im trying to use the 877A . yes, i have 13.3v on mclr. 5v on vdd and ground on vss. i was using a 21V (3x nimh 9v) supply tho recently went to a 20v dc adapter . --- In , "Wouter van Ooijen" <wouter@v...> wrote: > > I have built an ICSP programmer that has worked fine fro my 16f84a > > both onthe board and in their circuits. But now i picked up some 877's > > and 16f88's. both support HVP and LVP. In the doc's it states HVP is > > active all the time and works with standard HVP programmers. > > The 877 (not the 877A!) is sufficiently like the F84A that most > programming methods can use both. The F88 is definitely different. > > > I tried pulling rbs(PGM) to ground, no effect > > I stepped through the signals and all voltages are normal. though rb6 > > and rb7 only hit 3.37VDC. > > That is very strange. I suspect you did something very wrong, like > applying Ground/Vcc or MCLR to the wrong oinsw? > > Does the programmer (and its software) state that the 877 and/or F88 are > supported? > > Do you use a nice and clean +5Volt? > > Wouter van Ooijen > > -- ------------------------------------------- > Van Ooijen Technische Informatica: www.voti.nl > consultancy, development, PICmicro products > docent Hogeschool van Utrecht: www.voti.nl/hvu |
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Re: 16f877 cant use ICSP - rtstofer - Nov 14 12:08:00 2004
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The programming algorithm for the 877A is completely different than the 877. Unless your software states that it can handle the revised strategy, it probably won't. More details are available by comparing the datasheets of the 877 and 877A. You can still buy 877s (non-A) so it isn't much of a problem. Unfortunately, the 877 is a little more expensive. --- In , michaelerath@n... wrote: > > Sorry, im trying to use the 877A . yes, i have 13.3v on mclr. 5v on > vdd and ground on vss. i was using a 21V (3x nimh 9v) supply tho > recently went to a 20v dc adapter . > > --- In , "Wouter van Ooijen" <wouter@v...> wrote: > > > I have built an ICSP programmer that has worked fine fro my 16f84a > > > both onthe board and in their circuits. But now i picked up some 877's > > > and 16f88's. both support HVP and LVP. In the doc's it states HVP is > > > active all the time and works with standard HVP programmers. > > > > The 877 (not the 877A!) is sufficiently like the F84A that most > > programming methods can use both. The F88 is definitely different. > > > > > I tried pulling rbs(PGM) to ground, no effect > > > I stepped through the signals and all voltages are normal. though rb6 > > > and rb7 only hit 3.37VDC. > > > > That is very strange. I suspect you did something very wrong, like > > applying Ground/Vcc or MCLR to the wrong oinsw? > > > > Does the programmer (and its software) state that the 877 and/or F88 are > > supported? > > > > Do you use a nice and clean +5Volt? > > > > Wouter van Ooijen > > > > -- ------------------------------------------- > > Van Ooijen Technische Informatica: www.voti.nl > > consultancy, development, PICmicro products > > docent Hogeschool van Utrecht: www.voti.nl/hvu |
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Re: 16f877 cant use ICSP - dan michaels - Nov 16 0:34:00 2004
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--- In , michaelerath@n... wrote: > > I have built an ICSP programmer that has worked fine fro my 16f84a > both onthe board and in their circuits. But now i picked up some 877's > and 16f88's. both support HVP and LVP. In the doc's it states HVP is > active all the time and works with standard HVP programmers. > > I tried pulling rbs(PGM) to ground, no effect > I stepped through the signals and all voltages are normal. though rb6 > and rb7 only hit 3.37VDC. ill try to pull these up more. other then > that, no idea. is there something else i may have missed? > > Michael As rtstofer said, the programming algorithm for the 877A is totally different from that for the 877. When I switched chips, I needed to get a software upgrade for my EPIC programmer from melabs. Regards rb6/7 hitting only 3.37v, well, you might need to disconnect whatever loads are connected to those 2 pins in order to do ICSP successfully. You might be getting a voltage-divider effect. In addition, you may also need to use a diode or large value R in the Mclr line [going to the reset cktry], in order that your programmer can pull up the Mclr pin. Mchp discusses these issues in its programming docos. Regards pulling PGM to gnd ... a couple of years ago, you couldn't program an 876/877 in HVP mode without grounding that pin, but the newer chips all seem to program fine without it. - dan michaels www.oricomtech.com ========================= |
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RE: Re: 16f877 cant use ICSP - michaelerath - Nov 21 14:43:00 2004
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Well looks like
microchip screwed me. I tried
several programmers and then borrowed a friends
picstart. None of the chips I ordered work. They are all dead from the factory.
I think im done with microchip. Has anyone else had
this problem? Michael -----Original Message-----
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RE: Re: 16f877 cant use ICSP - Dwayne Reid - Nov 21 15:33:00 2004
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At 12:43 PM 11/21/2004, michaelerath wrote: >Well looks like microchip screwed me. I tried several programmers and then >borrowed a friends picstart. None of the chips I ordered work. They are >all dead from the factory. I think im done with microchip. >Has anyone else had this problem? Nope - not ever. Are you sure that the earlier programmers you tried didn't damage the chips? Why not borrow a chip from the friend who has the PS+ and try your code in that. Or - try your buddy's code in your chips. One thing: does your friend have the Picstart Plus (in the plastic case) or one of the earlier Picstart programmers (bare PCB only, no case)? dwayne -- Dwayne Reid <> Trinity Electronics Systems Ltd Edmonton, AB, CANADA (780) 489-3199 voice (780) 487-6397 fax Celebrating 20 years of Engineering Innovation (1984 - 2004) .-. .-. .-. .-. .-. .-. .-. .-. .-. .- `-' `-' `-' `-' `-' `-' `-' `-' `-' Do NOT send unsolicited commercial email to this email address. This message neither grants consent to receive unsolicited commercial email nor is intended to solicit commercial email. |
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Re: 16f877 cant use ICSP - Phil - Nov 21 16:01:00 2004
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--- In , Dwayne Reid <dwayner@p...> wrote: > At 12:43 PM 11/21/2004, michaelerath wrote: > >Well looks like microchip screwed me. I tried several programmers and then > >borrowed a friends picstart. None of the chips I ordered work. They are > >all dead from the factory. I think im done with microchip. > >Has anyone else had this problem? > > Nope - not ever. Are you sure that the earlier programmers you tried > didn't damage the chips? I've programmed about 100 PICs now and only one that had a problem but I could have damaged it through an overly long soldering episode (don't ask...). even that one is readable, just not writable. I might believe 1 chip but not multiple. That just doesn't happen. Their QA is pretty good and the processes they use are very reliable (same for the entire industry). I bet they got damaged some where in the process. static? wiring wrong? |
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Re: 16f877 cant use ICSP - dan michaels - Nov 21 17:18:00 2004
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--- In , "michaelerath" <michaelerath@n...> wrote: > Well looks like microchip screwed me. I tried several programmers and > then borrowed a friends picstart. None of the chips I ordered work. They > are all dead from the factory. I think im done with microchip. > Has anyone else had this problem? > > Michael It's not clear what your problem is, but I program these chips every day, using a regular programmer - not ICSP. I've never had a chip not program. I rarely use ICSP, as then I have to disconnect loads from the pins, etc. As I indicated last time, if you're trying to use ICSP, and the chips are not programming, then it's probably due to the board they are soldered into. You have to pay attention to the "other" components wired to the RB6, RB7, RB3, and Mclr pins. - dan michaels www.oricomtech.com ======================== > -----Original Message----- > From: rtstofer [mailto:rstofer@p...] > Sent: Sunday, November 14, 2004 10:08 AM > To: > Subject: [piclist] Re: 16f877 cant use ICSP > > The programming algorithm for the 877A is completely different than > the 877. Unless your software states that it can handle the revised > strategy, it probably won't. > > More details are available by comparing the datasheets of the 877 and > 877A. > > You can still buy 877s (non-A) so it isn't much of a problem. > Unfortunately, the 877 is a little more expensive. > > --- In , michaelerath@n... wrote: > > > > Sorry, im trying to use the 877A . yes, i have 13.3v on mclr. 5v on > > vdd and ground on vss. i was using a 21V (3x nimh 9v) supply tho > > recently went to a 20v dc adapter . > > > > --- In , "Wouter van Ooijen" <wouter@v...> > wrote: > > > > I have built an ICSP programmer that has worked fine fro my 16f84a > > > > both onthe board and in their circuits. But now i picked up some > 877's > > > > and 16f88's. both support HVP and LVP. In the doc's it states HVP > is > > > > active all the time and works with standard HVP programmers. > > > > > > The 877 (not the 877A!) is sufficiently like the F84A that most > > > programming methods can use both. The F88 is definitely different. > > > > > > > I tried pulling rbs(PGM) to ground, no effect > > > > I stepped through the signals and all voltages are normal. > though rb6 > > > > and rb7 only hit 3.37VDC. > > > > > > That is very strange. I suspect you did something very wrong, like > > > applying Ground/Vcc or MCLR to the wrong oinsw? > > > > > > Does the programmer (and its software) state that the 877 and/or > F88 are > > > supported? > > > > > > Do you use a nice and clean +5Volt? > > > > > > Wouter van Ooijen > > > > > > -- ------------------------------------------- > > > Van Ooijen Technische Informatica: www.voti.nl > > > consultancy, development, PICmicro products > > > docent Hogeschool van Utrecht: www.voti.nl/hvu > to unsubscribe, go to http://www.yahoogroups.com and follow the > instructions > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > ADVERTISEMENT <http://us.ard.yahoo.com/SIG=129nnpogp/M=298184.5584357.6650215.300117 6/ > D=groups/S=1706554205:HM/EXP=1100538495/A=2426683/R=0/SIG=11eeoolb0/*h tt > p:/www.netflix.com/Default?mqso=60185400> click here > <http://us.adserver.yahoo.com/l? M=298184.5584357.6650215.3001176/D=group > s/S=:HM/A=2426683/rand=381576968> > > _____ > > > Service. |
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Re: 16f877 cant use ICSP - rtstofer - Nov 21 18:26:00 2004
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Of course, there is the possibility of the famous 877 versus 877A problem. Are you sure you have it selected properly? --- In , "dan michaels" <dan@o...> wrote: > > --- In , "michaelerath" <michaelerath@n...> > wrote: > > Well looks like microchip screwed me. I tried several programmers > and > > then borrowed a friends picstart. None of the chips I ordered work. > They > > are all dead from the factory. I think im done with microchip. > > Has anyone else had this problem? > > > > Michael > It's not clear what your problem is, but I program these chips every > day, using a regular programmer - not ICSP. I've never had a chip not > program. > > I rarely use ICSP, as then I have to disconnect loads from the pins, > etc. As I indicated last time, if you're trying to use ICSP, and the > chips are not programming, then it's probably due to the board they > are soldered into. You have to pay attention to the "other" > components wired to the RB6, RB7, RB3, and Mclr pins. > - dan michaels > www.oricomtech.com > ======================== > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: rtstofer [mailto:rstofer@p...] > > Sent: Sunday, November 14, 2004 10:08 AM > > To: > > Subject: [piclist] Re: 16f877 cant use ICSP > > > > > > > > The programming algorithm for the 877A is completely different than > > the 877. Unless your software states that it can handle the revised > > strategy, it probably won't. > > > > More details are available by comparing the datasheets of the 877 > and > > 877A. > > > > You can still buy 877s (non-A) so it isn't much of a problem. > > Unfortunately, the 877 is a little more expensive. > > > > --- In , michaelerath@n... wrote: > > > > > > Sorry, im trying to use the 877A . yes, i have 13.3v on mclr. 5v > on > > > vdd and ground on vss. i was using a 21V (3x nimh 9v) supply tho > > > recently went to a 20v dc adapter . > > > > > > --- In , "Wouter van Ooijen" <wouter@v...> > > wrote: > > > > > I have built an ICSP programmer that has worked fine fro my > 16f84a > > > > > both onthe board and in their circuits. But now i picked up > some > > 877's > > > > > and 16f88's. both support HVP and LVP. In the doc's it states > HVP > > is > > > > > active all the time and works with standard HVP programmers. > > > > > > > > The 877 (not the 877A!) is sufficiently like the F84A that most > > > > programming methods can use both. The F88 is definitely > different. > > > > > > > > > I tried pulling rbs(PGM) to ground, no effect > > > > > I stepped through the signals and all voltages are normal. > > though rb6 > > > > > and rb7 only hit 3.37VDC. > > > > > > > > That is very strange. I suspect you did something very wrong, > like > > > > applying Ground/Vcc or MCLR to the wrong oinsw? > > > > > > > > Does the programmer (and its software) state that the 877 and/or > > F88 are > > > > supported? > > > > > > > > Do you use a nice and clean +5Volt? > > > > > > > > Wouter van Ooijen > > > > > > > > -- ------------------------------------------- > > > > Van Ooijen Technische Informatica: www.voti.nl > > > > consultancy, development, PICmicro products > > > > docent Hogeschool van Utrecht: www.voti.nl/hvu > > > > > > > > > > > > to unsubscribe, go to http://www.yahoogroups.com and follow the > > instructions > > > > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > > > > > > ADVERTISEMENT > > > > > <http://us.ard.yahoo.com/SIG=129nnpogp/M=298184.5584357.6650215.30011 7 > 6/ > > > D=groups/S=1706554205:HM/EXP=1100538495/A=2426683/R=0/SIG=11eeoolb0/* h > tt > > p:/www.netflix.com/Default?mqso=60185400> click here > > > > > > <http://us.adserver.yahoo.com/l? > M=298184.5584357.6650215.3001176/D=group > > s/S=:HM/A=2426683/rand=381576968> > > > > _____ > > > > > Service. |
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RE: Re: 16f877 cant use ICSP - Matt Pobursky - Nov 21 19:51:00 2004
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On Sun, 21 Nov 2004 12:43:06 -0700, michaelerath wrote: > Well looks like microchip screwed me. I seriously doubt that. > I tried several programmers and then borrowed a friends picstart. > None of the chips I ordered work. They are all dead from the factory. > I think im done with microchip. That would be your loss then. > Has anyone else had this problem? I've been doing electronic design work professionally for about 25 years now. I can count on one hand the number of times I've had chips from *any* manufacturer that were "bad out of the box". In fact, it's been at least a decade since that's happened. I've never gotten a bad chip from Microchip. IC's are very rarely bad. They occasionally go bad when you do something -- known or unknown -- to them. If your chips don't work, start by assuming you did something bad to them and don't just keep pumping new chips into the same circuit (or programmer in your case) assuming the chips were bad and things will change. They rarely do. If I have a circuit and the first IC doesn't work I may try a second. If the second doesn't work I stop there and try to figure out what I did wrong or where the problem is. Matt Pobursky Maximum Performance Systems |
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Re: 16f877 cant use ICSP - gettingalongwouldbenice - Nov 21 19:58:00 2004
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It's a pretty big leap from "I can't make it work" to "microchip screwed me" don't you think? I think the clue might be in the "several programmers". mike --- In , "michaelerath" <michaelerath@n...> wrote: > Well looks like microchip screwed me. I tried several programmers and > then borrowed a friends picstart. None of the chips I ordered work. They > are all dead from the factory. I think im done with microchip. > Has anyone else had this problem? > > Michael > -----Original Message----- > From: rtstofer [mailto:rstofer@p...] > Sent: Sunday, November 14, 2004 10:08 AM > To: > Subject: [piclist] Re: 16f877 cant use ICSP > > The programming algorithm for the 877A is completely different than > the 877. Unless your software states that it can handle the revised > strategy, it probably won't. > > More details are available by comparing the datasheets of the 877 and > 877A. > > You can still buy 877s (non-A) so it isn't much of a problem. > Unfortunately, the 877 is a little more expensive. > > --- In , michaelerath@n... wrote: > > > > Sorry, im trying to use the 877A . yes, i have 13.3v on mclr. 5v on > > vdd and ground on vss. i was using a 21V (3x nimh 9v) supply tho > > recently went to a 20v dc adapter . > > > > --- In , "Wouter van Ooijen" <wouter@v...> > wrote: > > > > I have built an ICSP programmer that has worked fine fro my 16f84a > > > > both onthe board and in their circuits. But now i picked up some > 877's > > > > and 16f88's. both support HVP and LVP. In the doc's it states HVP > is > > > > active all the time and works with standard HVP programmers. > > > > > > The 877 (not the 877A!) is sufficiently like the F84A that most > > > programming methods can use both. The F88 is definitely different. > > > > > > > I tried pulling rbs(PGM) to ground, no effect > > > > I stepped through the signals and all voltages are normal. > though rb6 > > > > and rb7 only hit 3.37VDC. > > > > > > That is very strange. I suspect you did something very wrong, like > > > applying Ground/Vcc or MCLR to the wrong oinsw? > > > > > > Does the programmer (and its software) state that the 877 and/or > F88 are > > > supported? > > > > > > Do you use a nice and clean +5Volt? > > > > > > Wouter van Ooijen > > > > > > -- ------------------------------------------- > > > Van Ooijen Technische Informatica: www.voti.nl > > > consultancy, development, PICmicro products > > > docent Hogeschool van Utrecht: www.voti.nl/hvu > to unsubscribe, go to http://www.yahoogroups.com and follow the > instructions > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > ADVERTISEMENT > > <http://us.ard.yahoo.com/SIG=129nnpogp/M=298184.5584357.6650215.3001176/ > D=groups/S=1706554205:HM/EXP=1100538495/A=2426683/R=0/SIG=11eeoolb0/*htt > p:/www.netflix.com/Default?mqso=60185400> click here > <http://us.adserver.yahoo.com/l?M=298184.5584357.6650215.3001176/D=group > s/S=:HM/A=2426683/rand=381576968> > > _____ > > > Service. |
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RE: Re: 16f877 cant use ICSP - michaelerath - Nov 22 1:35:00 2004
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It is my loss, I've normally worked with fpgas for now. And then went to the 16f84's. I built an icsp programmer which worked fine with my 84's but didn’t work for 877,871 or the 88's. the design doesn’t change for hvp and the software is supposed to be compatible. But wouldn’t work. When I tried my friends picstart, I used fresh 871's from the tube. it programmed them and verified (which really is weird) but the programmer read back as being empty (if there it failure it will report failure to access pic). And the pics wouldn’t function in cct. Now what just came to mind is, does the PGM pin have to be pulled low for the chip to run? If so , then that where I went wrong. Either way. I don’t know why these programmers are failing to work. I can check out each signal and all are fine now with 0 and 5v . but when I go into program, it flops. Hvp or lvp. (burnt out an lpt card when I realized the 12v transistor was backwards, opps. That’s one isa card out). I tired keeping the line length down two 6 inches. Still no dice. Frustrated. -----Original Message----- From: Matt Pobursky [mailto:] Sent: Sunday, November 21, 2004 5:52 PM To: Subject: RE: [piclist] Re: 16f877 cant use ICSP On Sun, 21 Nov 2004 12:43:06 -0700, michaelerath wrote: > Well looks like microchip screwed me. I seriously doubt that. > I tried several programmers and then borrowed a friends picstart. > None of the chips I ordered work. They are all dead from the factory. > I think im done with microchip. That would be your loss then. > Has anyone else had this problem? I've been doing electronic design work professionally for about 25 years now. I can count on one hand the number of times I've had chips from *any* manufacturer that were "bad out of the box". In fact, it's been at least a decade since that's happened. I've never gotten a bad chip from Microchip. IC's are very rarely bad. They occasionally go bad when you do something -- known or unknown -- to them. If your chips don't work, start by assuming you did something bad to them and don't just keep pumping new chips into the same circuit (or programmer in your case) assuming the chips were bad and things will change. They rarely do. If I have a circuit and the first IC doesn't work I may try a second. If the second doesn't work I stop there and try to figure out what I did wrong or where the problem is. Matt Pobursky Maximum Performance Systems to unsubscribe, go to http://www.yahoogroups.com and follow the instructions Yahoo! Groups Links |
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RE: Re: 16f877 cant use ICSP - Wouter van Ooijen - Nov 22 3:30:00 2004
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> When I tried my friends picstart, I used fresh 871's from the tube. it > programmed them and verified (which really is weird) but the > programmer > read back as being empty (if there it failure it will report > failure to > access pic). Sounds as if you might have code protection enabled. But I'd recommend starting with zero unknowns: take a fresh chip, the PicStart+, and a known good program. I have blink-a-led code for a lot of PICs at http://www.voti.nl/swp. If that works change one thing at a time. Wouter van Ooijen -- ------------------------------------------- Van Ooijen Technische Informatica: www.voti.nl consultancy, development, PICmicro products docent Hogeschool van Utrecht: www.voti.nl/hvu |
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