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Discussion Groups | Piclist | Re: new to PIC, what to read/buy?
A discussion group for the PICMicro microcontroller. Also called the Microchip PIC, this list is dedicated to the use and abuse of this fine, simple, microcontroller. Close to topic posts are welcome, ie. general electronics.
new to PIC, what to read/buy? - softmoo - Jan 22 15:56:00 2005
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Hi, Which books should I buy about PICS, and which kit should I buy? Here is some info about me: I've never touched this stuff before. I've done about 4 years of java programming. I'm a chemistry student and work in the lab a lot. After seeing that rotory-cellphone thing on slashdot.com, I wanted to learn about PICs, and perhaps automate tasks in the labratory. That would entail making decisions based on various sensors then controlling a motor or two and giving a nice LCD readout of what's going on. I know nothing of electronics or reading schematics and I it's been years since I've done anything programming-wise that wasn't java- based. I'm the sort of person who learns buy doing. I'll have under $100 including money for books. One idea I had was a machine to automate placing a breaker under vacuum then filling it with N2. I usually flush air sensitive things 3-4 times this way. Another was a hotplate that is plugged into a machine which measures temperature and turns the hotplate on or off based on temp. You can buy these, but I want one with a shut-off timer. |
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RE: new to PIC, what to read/buy? - Wouter van Ooijen - Jan 23 3:06:00 2005
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> Which books should I buy about PICS, and which kit should I buy? A good printer to print out the datasheet(s) and other Microchip stuff. Kit, programmer etc. depends a lot on your budget. There are ~ $0 programmers that can take a lot of your time, I sell the Wisp628 kit for ~ $30 that should take much less time. If you can afford it check the ICD2. If you want only to play check the pickit1. These are just a few options, there are zillions more. Wouter van Ooijen -- ------------------------------------------- Van Ooijen Technische Informatica: www.voti.nl consultancy, development, PICmicro products docent Hogeschool van Utrecht: www.voti.nl/hvu |
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Re: new to PIC, what to read/buy? - dan michaels - Jan 23 11:33:00 2005
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--- In , "softmoo" <frenchmoo@g...> wrote: > Hi, > Which books should I buy about PICS, and which kit should I buy? You might look at "Customizing and Programming PICMicro Microcontrollers" by Myke Predko. - dan michaels www.oricomtech.com ======================== |
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Re: new to PIC, what to read/buy? - rtstofer - Jan 23 13:56:00 2005
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Take a look at the MiniSumo Mark II robot from www.junun.org. After "some assembly required", you will have a PIC 16F877 device which pretty much has everything, interfaces to servos, photoreflective line sensors, IR distance sensors and a serial port. For what it is worth, the controller board alone makes a decent development environment. You can add your own devices by attaching a prototype board. The PIC has a built in boot loader so no external programmer is necessary. Skip the Hyperterminal experience and download the BotLoader application from the Files section of the MiniSumo Mark III group here on Yahoo. The robot can be programmed in C (demo version of cc5x), CHBasic (free license included), ASM (you need to download MPASM from Microchip in any event), or JAL (modified version required) among MANY others. Most of the books I have skimmed appear to show poor programming style applied to obsolete PICs. I would go with the programming examples in C on the Mark III group and download the datasheets and manuals from Microchip. Some of their app notes show good programming style as well. Some don't... Since you want to deal with the physical world, you might as well start with sensors and servos. The assembly instructions are quite good - just be careful with your soldering. And skip the Hyperterminal stuff - nobody gets it right in the first hundred attempts. Mostly because they skip the instruction about selecting a 100 mS end of line delay. --- In , "softmoo" <frenchmoo@g...> wrote: > Hi, > Which books should I buy about PICS, and which kit should I buy? > > Here is some info about me: I've never touched this stuff before. I've > done about 4 years of java programming. I'm a chemistry student and > work in the lab a lot. After seeing that rotory-cellphone thing on > slashdot.com, I wanted to learn about PICs, and perhaps automate tasks > in the labratory. That would entail making decisions based on various > sensors then controlling a motor or two and giving a nice LCD readout > of what's going on. > > I know nothing of electronics or reading schematics and I it's been > years since I've done anything programming-wise that wasn't java- > based. I'm the sort of person who learns buy doing. I'll have under > $100 including money for books. > > One idea I had was a machine to automate placing a breaker under > vacuum then filling it with N2. I usually flush air sensitive things > 3-4 times this way. Another was a hotplate that is plugged into a > machine which measures temperature and turns the hotplate on or off > based on temp. You can buy these, but I want one with a shut-off > timer. |
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Re: new to PIC, what to read/buy? - upand_at_them - Jan 23 14:25:00 2005
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In addition to the mentioned Predko book, which I find to be a good resource, these should be considered for the beginner: "Easy Microcontrol'n": A Beginner's Guide to Using PIC Microcontrollers", by David Benson -- available from Paul Anderson (http://stores.ebay.com/PHAnderson-Electronics). "PIC Microcontroller Project Book: For PIC Basic and PIC Basic Pro Compilers", 2nd ed., by John Iovine. -Mike --- In , "softmoo" <frenchmoo@g...> wrote: > Hi, > Which books should I buy about PICS, and which kit should I buy? > > Here is some info about me: I've never touched this stuff before. I've > done about 4 years of java programming. I'm a chemistry student and > work in the lab a lot. After seeing that rotory-cellphone thing on > slashdot.com, I wanted to learn about PICs, and perhaps automate tasks > in the labratory. That would entail making decisions based on various > sensors then controlling a motor or two and giving a nice LCD readout > of what's going on. > > I know nothing of electronics or reading schematics and I it's been > years since I've done anything programming-wise that wasn't java- > based. I'm the sort of person who learns buy doing. I'll have under > $100 including money for books. > > One idea I had was a machine to automate placing a breaker under > vacuum then filling it with N2. I usually flush air sensitive things > 3-4 times this way. Another was a hotplate that is plugged into a > machine which measures temperature and turns the hotplate on or off > based on temp. You can buy these, but I want one with a shut-off > timer. |
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Re: new to PIC, what to read/buy? - dan michaels - Jan 23 16:22:00 2005
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--- In , "rtstofer" <rstofer@p...> wrote: > The PIC has a built in boot loader so no external programmer is > necessary. Skip the Hyperterminal experience and download the > BotLoader application from the Files section of the MiniSumo Mark > III group here on Yahoo. ........ > The assembly instructions are quite good - just be careful with your > soldering. And skip the Hyperterminal stuff - nobody gets it right > in the first hundred attempts. Mostly because they skip the > instruction about selecting a 100 mS end of line delay. Possibly because that particular factoid is buried too deeply in most descriptions of using the bootloader. I'm not sure about junung.org. BTW, I did get the PICLoader to work after your help, and even downloaded a massive file (6,000 lines of code) that uses interrupts and most of the other PIC peripherals. Worked fine. - dan =========== |
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Re: new to PIC, what to read/buy? - dan michaels - Jan 23 16:26:00 2005
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--- In , "upand_at_them" <upand_at_them@y...> wrote: > > In addition to the mentioned Predko book, which I find to be a good > resource, these should be considered for the beginner: > > "Easy Microcontrol'n": A Beginner's Guide to Using PIC > Microcontrollers", by David Benson -- available from Paul Anderson > (http://stores.ebay.com/PHAnderson-Electronics). > > "PIC Microcontroller Project Book: For PIC Basic and PIC Basic Pro > Compilers", 2nd ed., by John Iovine. > > -Mike Iovine also has the book "PIC Robotics", for someone interested in that area - although I'm not familiar with this book in detail. |
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Re: new to PIC, what to read/buy? - rtstofer - Jan 23 16:39:00 2005
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--- In , "dan michaels" <dan@o...> wrote: > > --- In , "rtstofer" <rstofer@p...> wrote: > > > The PIC has a built in boot loader so no external programmer is > > necessary. Skip the Hyperterminal experience and download the > > BotLoader application from the Files section of the MiniSumo Mark > > III group here on Yahoo. > > ........ > > The assembly instructions are quite good - just be careful with > your > > soldering. And skip the Hyperterminal stuff - nobody gets it right > > in the first hundred attempts. Mostly because they skip the > > instruction about selecting a 100 mS end of line delay. > > Possibly because that particular factoid is buried too deeply in most > descriptions of using the bootloader. I'm not sure about junung.org. Yes, it is buried which is why it is often missed. There is no other reason to avoid Hyperterminal, I use it all the time to communicate among computers. The other thing that is missing is a decent FAQ. There are 3 groups that are in serious need: MiniSumo Mark III, OOPic and PICList. I kind of like the PHP type of forum with 'sticky' posts. > > BTW, I did get the PICLoader to work after your help, and even > downloaded a massive file (6,000 lines of code) that uses interrupts > and most of the other PIC peripherals. Worked fine. > > - dan > =========== |
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Re: new to PIC, what to read/buy? - pondindustrial - Jan 24 1:30:00 2005
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> Which books should I buy about PICS Well I bought the "PIC Microcontroller Project Book" just because it was available off the shelf at a local Barnes & Noble store. It taught me the basics, pun intended, PicBasic and PicBasic Pro (PBP). My advice to one just scratching the surface would be to evaluate your budget vs. learning curve expectations. Typically speaking, the length of your learning curve is an inversely proportional trade off of the amount you spend, i.e. the more you spend, the shorter your learning curve will usually be. This perhaps is a result of the higher priced compilers requiring more work to develop, in that; someone else has done the hard work for you and supplies drop in functions for what it would take some code length to accomplish writing in long-hand (assembly). If your looking to develop a few projects with relatively trifling complexity, then a basic-stamp may be in order, these guys are aimed at the `project or two' market and provide a vast amount of `show-you- how' literature for that purpose. This would definitely come in handy considering no experience ("I know nothing of electronics") with electronics. To add, a basic-stamp utilizes a PIC microcontroller as the primary component, I have been known to `cheat' and use basic stamp documentation for my work, I just decipher what is useful for my application. PicBasic/Pro: http://www.melabs.com/products/index.htm Basic Stamp: http://www.parallax.com/ Thanks, Eric --- In , "softmoo" <frenchmoo@g...> wrote: > Hi, > Which books should I buy about PICS, and which kit should I buy? > > Here is some info about me: I've never touched this stuff before. I've > done about 4 years of java programming. I'm a chemistry student and > work in the lab a lot. After seeing that rotory-cellphone thing on > slashdot.com, I wanted to learn about PICs, and perhaps automate tasks > in the labratory. That would entail making decisions based on various > sensors then controlling a motor or two and giving a nice LCD readout > of what's going on. > > I know nothing of electronics or reading schematics and I it's been > years since I've done anything programming-wise that wasn't java- > based. I'm the sort of person who learns buy doing. I'll have under > $100 including money for books. > > One idea I had was a machine to automate placing a breaker under > vacuum then filling it with N2. I usually flush air sensitive things > 3-4 times this way. Another was a hotplate that is plugged into a > machine which measures temperature and turns the hotplate on or off > based on temp. You can buy these, but I want one with a shut-off > timer. |
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Re: Re: new to PIC, what to read/buy? - JCullins - Jan 24 2:35:00 2005
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I have done that a couple of times myself
Eric.
Jim
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Re: new to PIC, what to read/buy? - timbox2005 - Jan 24 4:55:00 2005
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Your back ground in Java means you might be better suited to the structured programming languages. Look for …. XCSB JAL Mikroelektronika Basic There are also the C languages CCS etc etc Then there are the Basic stamp derived compilers. Crownhill Proton+ Melabs Basic compilers Pic basic, Pic basic Pro And dont forget stamps them selves As for books once you get past how a pic works (very important) then your programming skills will carry you through until you want to know how to interface to other devices (remember there little micros and have limited ram and prom space!!). This is where a good user forum helps. Not all compilers are equal so look carefully at the specs, value for money and stability. Also look for continued support and upgrades some compilers are living on past history and have not made any major additions in years. As you budget is small you might as well start with the Freebies --- In , "softmoo" <frenchmoo@g...> wrote: > Hi, > Which books should I buy about PICS, and which kit should I buy? > > Here is some info about me: I've never touched this stuff before. I've > done about 4 years of java programming. I'm a chemistry student and > work in the lab a lot. After seeing that rotory-cellphone thing on > slashdot.com, I wanted to learn about PICs, and perhaps automate tasks > in the labratory. That would entail making decisions based on various > sensors then controlling a motor or two and giving a nice LCD readout > of what's going on. > > I know nothing of electronics or reading schematics and I it's been > years since I've done anything programming-wise that wasn't java- > based. I'm the sort of person who learns buy doing. I'll have under > $100 including money for books. > > One idea I had was a machine to automate placing a breaker under > vacuum then filling it with N2. I usually flush air sensitive things > 3-4 times this way. Another was a hotplate that is plugged into a > machine which measures temperature and turns the hotplate on or off > based on temp. You can buy these, but I want one with a shut-off > timer. |
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Re: new to PIC, what to read/buy? - Allan Lane - Jan 24 12:51:00 2005
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I haven't read the other replies yet, but I just had to put in my 2-cents first. $100 is not going to get you anywhere. $500.00 might be more realistic. You're going to want to buy the Michael Predko book, at least. You're going to want to buy or make a programmer -- parts are not free. You're going to want to buy some prototyping hardware, or a prototyping board. www.basicmicro.com has some of the most cost-effective, but they're $12.00 per board, and $25.00 for a parts kit. If you go the Parallax Basic Stamp (BS2) route, the board and Stamp will cost around $150.00. This has the advantage of having LOTS of tutorials and help. The BasicAtom has more performance, but less support. While the MPASM assembler is free from MicroChip, I think you'd like a good high-level language. www.picant.com/c2c is very nice, and includes an assembly level simulator. I don't want to discourage you. If you had a mentor who had done all this before, and could steer you to the most cost-effective solution, EVEN THEN $100.00 is not very realistic -- especially if that includes books. I just wanted you to be aware what a more realistic cost would be. You minimally need: 1. Assembler (software) -- free 2. Mike Predko book -- $30.00 (?) 3. Some PIC parts, with resonator, capacitors, regulator -- $10.00 4. Wall-wart -- $7.00 5. Prototype board to plug PIC into. $12 to $100. So, it can be done, but you are trading dollars for time. It's going to take you a LONG time to get anything useful out of the above. If you went the BasicAtom or Parallax BasicStamp route, you'd have something useful for $150.00 within days. --- In , "softmoo" <frenchmoo@g...> wrote: > Hi, > Which books should I buy about PICS, and which kit should I buy? > > Here is some info about me: I've never touched this stuff before. I've > done about 4 years of java programming. I'm a chemistry student and > work in the lab a lot. After seeing that rotory-cellphone thing on > slashdot.com, I wanted to learn about PICs, and perhaps automate tasks > in the labratory. That would entail making decisions based on various > sensors then controlling a motor or two and giving a nice LCD readout > of what's going on. > > I know nothing of electronics or reading schematics and I it's been > years since I've done anything programming-wise that wasn't java- > based. I'm the sort of person who learns buy doing. I'll have under > $100 including money for books. > > One idea I had was a machine to automate placing a breaker under > vacuum then filling it with N2. I usually flush air sensitive things > 3-4 times this way. Another was a hotplate that is plugged into a > machine which measures temperature and turns the hotplate on or off > based on temp. You can buy these, but I want one with a shut-off > timer. |
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Re: new to PIC, what to read/buy? - rj_satterlee - Jan 24 13:00:00 2005
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Hi- Well here's one link that I thought was pretty good: http://www.winpicprog.co.uk/pic_tutorial.htm Please be advised that I'm a grizzled old hardware/software fart. Been around the industry for a couple three decades. And, I cut my teeth on the likes of the 8080, 6502, Z80, 6800 etc. So a lot of this stuff was old hat for me. BUT, this was really neat! I didn't have to have a big ass ICE development station, $10K or more logic analyzer, $2K eprom programmer. Those are all the tools we used to use when I got started. That's a pretty hefty investment to make for midnight engineering projects. The PIC a PC and a couple of real inexpensive tools are all you need these days. Neato! Now the caveats that I went with. 1. I did my own pic programmer board from the ottowa robotics society. I since have been using the $14.95 Tait like programmers available from MPJE and there are others from additional sources. I use pp06 from sourceforge and with the "-hw 2" option, seems to work just fine for a "prototype" programmer. I started off with Nigel's free software, however, the pp06 s/w is open source, modifiable and has the newer 16f648A chips. Note that I downloaded the linux version first and it core dumped on me! The windoze version worked fine on both win98 and win2000. Go figure! Anyway, since the rest of the software is in the windoze enviornment, I use that (miss my CVS though). 2. Go to microchip and download the free ide software. This will give you a free assembler and a simulator. That's all you need to get started. Total cost for software development = $0.00 Oh, and you might want to look at the hardware selections from microchip. They used to allow you 5 free samples (it's down to 3 now). Takes a long time to get them. I ordered some PICs of choice from Digikey, but they are available through MANY suppliers. I picked a "medium range" chip, the 16f628 and migrated to the 16F648As and a "high end" chip the 16F877. There are so many variants of the PICs that are available, I stick with these two devices (although I did use a 16F77 for a different project). Learn the in's and out's of these devices well. I would suggest that you then stick with these unless you want to go to a PIC that has some special support variant that is not available on your favorite PICs. YMMV. O.K. So, if you build a simple TAIT programmer, that's a few transistors, a couple of 3 terminal voltage regulators and a buffer chip of choice, a couple of sockets a 25pin D connector and a one to one cable. Say $5.00 for the programmer if you are very frugal ($15.00) or so if you are not. So your hardware investment so far is $5.00. You will also need a wall wart in the range of 15VDC or 15-20VAC. The designs are not critical but they do require a fairly high (greater than 12V, but I can't remember how much more offhand) for the programming voltage. Nigel builds up these little boards for the projects. I prefer using the push in prototype boards. Here you have to be carefull. You can pay as little as $5.00 or so for a board. Or you can go to Radio Shack and pay $20.00 for the same thing mounted on a metal base with 3 binding posts. Now we have to talk about insturmentation. I would suggest the following as a minimum: 1. Digital VOM. They run about $15.00 for a cheap, but useable meter. 2. Logic probe. I picked one up for $16.00 that was assembled and tested, but it's pretty low speed. 3. Some sort of power supply. This can be anything in the 5VDC range. You might look around for some cast off consumer products that have "wall wort" type power supplies. I have a couple of old HP warts that supply 5VDC just fine. Otherwise, you can whomp one up with a 7805 3 terminal regulator with optional bridge and filter caps if your wall wart is AC and and anywhere from say 7.5VAC to 15-16VAC. By the way, the $14.95 type programmer does not come with a wall wart. You will have to scare one up. I found a couple of 16VAC wall warts at the local surplus supply house for a $1.00 each. You can use the programmer wall wort with a 3 terminal voltage regulator (with a series resistor). But shoot, wall warts are so darn cheap, go ahead and forrage around for two. 4. Soldering iron and (optional) hardware geek mentor. The PIC is a low level machine. As you pointed out for your projects you will most likely have real time, direct I/O. That means that somewhere down the line you will have to learn how to solder. That's where the h/w geek comes in. It doesn't have to be a computer geek. You can look to guys/gals that are ham radio operators, R/C aircraft builders, model train buffs, etc. If you already know how to solder, you can skip this step. I would suggest a 25Watt or so soldering pencil (also called and iron). These are available at Home Depot, Radio Shack, etc, etc. Just get one and learn how to use it. 5. (optional). There are some "logic analyzers" available for your parallel port of your PC. These freeware are pretty lousy, slow, inaccurate. But they do show you the timing relationships between multiple signals. You whomp up a little cable with some clips on the end and you can get some sort of idea what's happening. 6. Some LEDs and resistors. I would have a stock on hand of 1/4 watt or 1/8 watt carbon resistors. - 330 ohm Good for series current limiting of the LEDs. - 1K ohm - 4.7-5.2K ohm - 10K ohm - some 0.01 microfarad caps used for bypassing the chips - a couple of NPN transistors. I use 2N2222s, but other popular choices are out there. - Maybe throw in a couple of 10 microfarad electrolytics for bulk bypass, just for grins. - some general purpose LEDs. Nothing fancy, just something you can turn off and on. You can certianly add from this. PNP transistors, MOSFETs, relays, TRIACs, optocouplers, all sorts of good stuff. And that's just the output side of things. You can get temp. pressure, humidity, pH sensors of all types for your input side, but I would suggest doing these on a project by project basis. Operational (Op) Amps are another good thing to help with setting up your stock of parts and knowledge. Whew, well that's quite a list. Please remember you are building a computer here. Granted, most of it is in the PIC, but you still have to interface it with something. In summary, you can do software development and simulation for nothing. You can prototype your PIC for about $20.00 or so, allbeit very bottom end and time consuming. I did several projects with just a logic probe, digital VOM, power supply and protoboard. Soon you will want to commit the design to some "real hardware". I suggest that you wander over to the local EE department of the college that you attend and see what sort of facilities they will share with you. When I was in college (many moons ago), I got to take home an oscilloscope and a TTY that I borrowed from the physics department. You may not be as lucky, but you might be able to use their facilities for making PC boards for example. They may also be a ready source of misc. parts and stuff like that. You may also do a little bartering with some of the students. Like a little tutoring work in organic chem, for say an LCD display..... These PICs are fun little tools to have. I've done several projects with them and find them to be an absolute gas to play with. At less than $2.00 in quantity 25 or so, you can throw them at many many applications that range from 10 milliseconds type signals up. As mentioned in the other posts, you can get free compilers for these critters too! I kinda like the cc5x stuff, but that's just my opinion. As a 'nix programmer, I prefer not to learn yet another high level language and stick to C pretty much for the high level stuff. Again YMMV. All the best of luck with your efforts. Let us know when you have interfaced a pic 16F877 up to an LC. Cheers, Rich S. --- In , "softmoo" <frenchmoo@g...> wrote: > Hi, > Which books should I buy about PICS, and which kit should I buy? > > Here is some info about me: I've never touched this stuff before. I've > done about 4 years of java programming. I'm a chemistry student and > work in the lab a lot. After seeing that rotory-cellphone thing on > slashdot.com, I wanted to learn about PICs, and perhaps automate tasks > in the labratory. That would entail making decisions based on various > sensors then controlling a motor or two and giving a nice LCD readout > of what's going on. > > I know nothing of electronics or reading schematics and I it's been > years since I've done anything programming-wise that wasn't java- > based. I'm the sort of person who learns buy doing. I'll have under > $100 including money for books. > > One idea I had was a machine to automate placing a breaker under > vacuum then filling it with N2. I usually flush air sensitive things > 3-4 times this way. Another was a hotplate that is plugged into a > machine which measures temperature and turns the hotplate on or off > based on temp. You can buy these, but I want one with a shut-off > timer. |
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