I agree that having JTAG on board debugging is extremely helpful.
However, I use my debugger (whether JTAG or Rabbit) in conjunction with
printing data out a serial port. I believe that using the two of them
together helps me create a better product, with fewer problems, in a
shorter period of time. In a system with many different tasks all
running concurrently it really helps to see the interactions via the
serial port while the system is running.

If cost and or real estate is a factor we add some pads for RX, TX and
ground. Then I take those signals to an RS232 level converter
breadboard.

From: r...@yahoogroups.com [mailto:r...@yahoogroups.com]
On Behalf Of Alexis
Sent: Wednesday, March 05, 2008 12:11 PM
To: r...@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [rabbit-semi] Re: Newbie Rabbit vs. Netburner question...

Most modern CPUs have JTAG on board debugging. It's a bonus and
simplifies debugging. Especially when you have vectored interrupt issues

(As I had on an ARM 9) yesterday.

Saves time, you can see the assembly code and the internal registers.
You don't have to recompile to print the data out of a serial port. And
to search/guess where to put the command.

Debugging by printing out of a serial port went out of fashion years
ago. The last time I used that technique was in 1999 on a Philips XAS3
CPU. Today I will never design a CPU onto my board without hardware
debugging features. It saves time. 10% of the time is spent coding and
90% of the time debugging. If you can reduce this debugging period you
become more productive and earn more $$.

A.

seulaterbuddy wrote:
>
> they have it, but i have never used it and have not read up on it.
>
> personally, i never did understand why anyone would need debugging /
> break points. there must be a reason because people use it and want
> it. for me if i am having trouble with something i just slap a printf
> there to see whats going on. Dont quite see why there would be a need
> for something more that that.
>
> --- In r...@yahoogroups.com

> , Mike van Meeteren
> wrote:
> >
> > How is NetBurner debugging? I have a kit but I haven't had a
> chance to
> > play with it yet. The thing I like about the Rabbit is the ability
> to
> > compile to RAM and set breakpoints and examine variables, much like
> a PC
> > program. How does NetBurner handle that?
> >
> > -Mike
> > --
> > Mike vanMeeteren FASTechnologies Corp.
> > Wakeboarding as much as possible, on a 2007 Air Nautique SV-211.
> >



(You need to be a member of rabbit-semi -- send a blank email to rabbit-semi-subscribe@yahoogroups.com )

I agree - there is only one way to really test a serial port and that is
to send and receive data from / to it. Here JTAG is not much use.

The point I was trying to make was that until you have your serial
communication driver debugged it can be a nightmare to get started. How
do you find the bug except by painstaking searching? Once the
communication driver is running things become a lot easier. With JTAG
one can debug the serial driver a lot more easily - especially on a new
hardware platform which you are still coming to grips with. With FIFOs
and DMA on these things today it becomes quite tricky.

A.

Kevin Franzen wrote:
>
> I agree that having JTAG on board debugging is extremely helpful.
> However, I use my debugger (whether JTAG or Rabbit) in conjunction
> with printing data out a serial port. I believe that using the two of
> them together helps me create a better product, with fewer problems,
> in a shorter period of time. In a system with many different tasks all
> running concurrently it really helps to see the interactions via the
> serial port while the system is running.
>
>
>
> If cost and or real estate is a factor we add some pads for RX, TX
> and ground. Then I take those signals to an RS232 level converter
> breadboard.
>
>
>
> *From:* r...@yahoogroups.com
> [mailto:r...@yahoogroups.com] *On Behalf Of *Alexis
> *Sent:* Wednesday, March 05, 2008 12:11 PM
> *To:* r...@yahoogroups.com
> *Subject:* Re: [rabbit-semi] Re: Newbie Rabbit vs. Netburner question...
>
>
>
> Most modern CPUs have JTAG on board debugging. It's a bonus and
> simplifies debugging. Especially when you have vectored interrupt issues
> (As I had on an ARM 9) yesterday.
>
> Saves time, you can see the assembly code and the internal registers.
> You don't have to recompile to print the data out of a serial port. And
> to search/guess where to put the command.
>
> Debugging by printing out of a serial port went out of fashion years
> ago. The last time I used that technique was in 1999 on a Philips XAS3
> CPU. Today I will never design a CPU onto my board without hardware
> debugging features. It saves time. 10% of the time is spent coding and
> 90% of the time debugging. If you can reduce this debugging period you
> become more productive and earn more $$.
>
> A.
>
> seulaterbuddy wrote:
> >
> > they have it, but i have never used it and have not read up on it.
> >
> > personally, i never did understand why anyone would need debugging /
> > break points. there must be a reason because people use it and want
> > it. for me if i am having trouble with something i just slap a printf
> > there to see whats going on. Dont quite see why there would be a need
> > for something more that that.
> >
> > --- In r...@yahoogroups.com
>
> > , Mike van Meeteren
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > How is NetBurner debugging? I have a kit but I haven't had a
> > chance to
> > > play with it yet. The thing I like about the Rabbit is the ability
> > to
> > > compile to RAM and set breakpoints and examine variables, much like
> > a PC
> > > program. How does NetBurner handle that?
> > >
> > > -Mike
> > > --
> > > Mike vanMeeteren FASTechnologies Corp.
> > > Wakeboarding as much as possible, on a 2007 Air Nautique SV-211.
> > >
> >
> >


(You need to be a member of rabbit-semi -- send a blank email to rabbit-semi-subscribe@yahoogroups.com )

i still dont see the light, but thanks for trying. i would say if a
guy cannot get something as simple as the serial driver working on a
new device, then debugging would be out of the question for him to
fall back on. seeing the registers in debug mode would probably make
no sense to that individual anyway.

The fact of the matter is that in all my years working with uP's i
have yet to have one person show me a definitive example of why a
debugger is better than a simple printf.

i am still looking though ;) in the mean time i will still run my
code real time and slap a printf here and there.

--- In r...@yahoogroups.com, Alexis wrote:
>
> I agree - there is only one way to really test a serial port and
that is
> to send and receive data from / to it. Here JTAG is not much use.
>
> The point I was trying to make was that until you have your serial
> communication driver debugged it can be a nightmare to get started.
How
> do you find the bug except by painstaking searching? Once the
> communication driver is running things become a lot easier. With
JTAG
> one can debug the serial driver a lot more easily - especially on a
new
> hardware platform which you are still coming to grips with. With
FIFOs
> and DMA on these things today it becomes quite tricky.
>
> A.
>
> Kevin Franzen wrote:
> >
> > I agree that having JTAG on board debugging is extremely
helpful.
> > However, I use my debugger (whether JTAG or Rabbit) in
conjunction
> > with printing data out a serial port. I believe that using the
two of
> > them together helps me create a better product, with fewer
problems,
> > in a shorter period of time. In a system with many different
tasks all
> > running concurrently it really helps to see the interactions via
the
> > serial port while the system is running.
> >
> >
> >
> > If cost and or real estate is a factor we add some pads for RX,
TX
> > and ground. Then I take those signals to an RS232 level converter
> > breadboard.
> >
> >
> >
> > *From:* r...@yahoogroups.com
> > [mailto:r...@yahoogroups.com] *On Behalf Of *Alexis
> > *Sent:* Wednesday, March 05, 2008 12:11 PM
> > *To:* r...@yahoogroups.com
> > *Subject:* Re: [rabbit-semi] Re: Newbie Rabbit vs. Netburner
question...
> >
> >
> >
> > Most modern CPUs have JTAG on board debugging. It's a bonus and
> > simplifies debugging. Especially when you have vectored interrupt
issues
> > (As I had on an ARM 9) yesterday.
> >
> > Saves time, you can see the assembly code and the internal
registers.
> > You don't have to recompile to print the data out of a serial
port. And
> > to search/guess where to put the command.
> >
> > Debugging by printing out of a serial port went out of fashion
years
> > ago. The last time I used that technique was in 1999 on a Philips
XAS3
> > CPU. Today I will never design a CPU onto my board without
hardware
> > debugging features. It saves time. 10% of the time is spent
coding and
> > 90% of the time debugging. If you can reduce this debugging
period you
> > become more productive and earn more $$.
> >
> > A.
> >
> > seulaterbuddy wrote:
> > >
> > > they have it, but i have never used it and have not read up on
it.
> > >
> > > personally, i never did understand why anyone would need
debugging /
> > > break points. there must be a reason because people use it and
want
> > > it. for me if i am having trouble with something i just slap a
printf
> > > there to see whats going on. Dont quite see why there would be
a need
> > > for something more that that.
> > >
> > > --- In r...@yahoogroups.com
> >
> > > , Mike van Meeteren

> > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > How is NetBurner debugging? I have a kit but I haven't had a
> > > chance to
> > > > play with it yet. The thing I like about the Rabbit is the
ability
> > > to
> > > > compile to RAM and set breakpoints and examine variables,
much like
> > > a PC
> > > > program. How does NetBurner handle that?
> > > >
> > > > -Mike
> > > > --
> > > > Mike vanMeeteren FASTechnologies Corp.
> > > > Wakeboarding as much as possible, on a 2007 Air Nautique SV-
211.
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
>



(You need to be a member of rabbit-semi -- send a blank email to rabbit-semi-subscribe@yahoogroups.com )

HI

I feel serial printf is useful to deabug problem at customer site or in team where you have reamot team doing testing... for any issue / bug we can just ask serial deabug data ..

In all of my projects i add printf on serial port and these printf are enabled only when deabuging is enabled.. os on runtime I can enable printf and get data when bug is there... now I have started UDP port to print same data which I use to print on serial port ...

Thanks
Pankaj

seulaterbuddy wrote:
i still dont see the light, but thanks for trying. i would say if a
guy cannot get something as simple as the serial driver working on a
new device, then debugging would be out of the question for him to
fall back on. seeing the registers in debug mode would probably make
no sense to that individual anyway.

The fact of the matter is that in all my years working with uP's i
have yet to have one person show me a definitive example of why a
debugger is better than a simple printf.

i am still looking though ;) in the mean time i will still run my
code real time and slap a printf here and there.

--- In r...@yahoogroups.com, Alexis wrote:
>
> I agree - there is only one way to really test a serial port and
that is
> to send and receive data from / to it. Here JTAG is not much use.
>
> The point I was trying to make was that until you have your serial
> communication driver debugged it can be a nightmare to get started.
How
> do you find the bug except by painstaking searching? Once the
> communication driver is running things become a lot easier. With
JTAG
> one can debug the serial driver a lot more easily - especially on a
new
> hardware platform which you are still coming to grips with. With
FIFOs
> and DMA on these things today it becomes quite tricky.
>
> A.
>
> Kevin Franzen wrote:
> >
> > I agree that having JTAG on board debugging is extremely
helpful.
> > However, I use my debugger (whether JTAG or Rabbit) in
conjunction
> > with printing data out a serial port. I believe that using the
two of
> > them together helps me create a better product, with fewer
problems,
> > in a shorter period of time. In a system with many different
tasks all
> > running concurrently it really helps to see the interactions via
the
> > serial port while the system is running.
> >
> >
> >
> > If cost and or real estate is a factor we add some pads for RX,
TX
> > and ground. Then I take those signals to an RS232 level converter
> > breadboard.
> >
> >
> >
> > *From:* r...@yahoogroups.com
> > [mailto:r...@yahoogroups.com] *On Behalf Of *Alexis
> > *Sent:* Wednesday, March 05, 2008 12:11 PM
> > *To:* r...@yahoogroups.com
> > *Subject:* Re: [rabbit-semi] Re: Newbie Rabbit vs. Netburner
question...
> >
> >
> >
> > Most modern CPUs have JTAG on board debugging. It's a bonus and
> > simplifies debugging. Especially when you have vectored interrupt
issues
> > (As I had on an ARM 9) yesterday.
> >
> > Saves time, you can see the assembly code and the internal
registers.
> > You don't have to recompile to print the data out of a serial
port. And
> > to search/guess where to put the command.
> >
> > Debugging by printing out of a serial port went out of fashion
years
> > ago. The last time I used that technique was in 1999 on a Philips
XAS3
> > CPU. Today I will never design a CPU onto my board without
hardware
> > debugging features. It saves time. 10% of the time is spent
coding and
> > 90% of the time debugging. If you can reduce this debugging
period you
> > become more productive and earn more $$.
> >
> > A.
> >
> > seulaterbuddy wrote:
> > >
> > > they have it, but i have never used it and have not read up on
it.
> > >
> > > personally, i never did understand why anyone would need
debugging /
> > > break points. there must be a reason because people use it and
want
> > > it. for me if i am having trouble with something i just slap a
printf
> > > there to see whats going on. Dont quite see why there would be
a need
> > > for something more that that.
> > >
> > > --- In r...@yahoogroups.com
> >
> > > , Mike van Meeteren

> > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > How is NetBurner debugging? I have a kit but I haven't had a
> > > chance to
> > > > play with it yet. The thing I like about the Rabbit is the
ability
> > > to
> > > > compile to RAM and set breakpoints and examine variables,
much like
> > > a PC
> > > > program. How does NetBurner handle that?
> > > >
> > > > -Mike
> > > > --
> > > > Mike vanMeeteren FASTechnologies Corp.
> > > > Wakeboarding as much as possible, on a 2007 Air Nautique SV-
211.
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
>

---------------------------------
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(You need to be a member of rabbit-semi -- send a blank email to rabbit-semi-subscribe@yahoogroups.com )

At 12:53 AM 3/6/2008 +0000, you wrote:
>The fact of the matter is that in all my years working with uP's i
>have yet to have one person show me a definitive example of why a
>debugger is better than a simple printf.

printf is fine for watching variables. How about finding rogue code? A
single step debug is often the only way to find it. For example, this week
I had a PC program (yeah I know, not Rabbit, but the example applies) I had
a nil deference in. The program crashed with an exception error, but I had
no idea where. I knew how to cause it though. So I hit the button that
caused the exception and just single stepped until the program crashed, and
then I knew exactly what code was causing it.

Sure, you can do that with turning on an LED and sticking the code to turn
that on to see how far you got in the execution, but every time you stick
in the code to "wave the flag" so to speak, you have to recompile, and
start over. A tedious process, expecially if it happens on the 304th
iteration through a loop.

Single stepping, variable watches, and all the other normal debugging tools
you get when you work with a debugger on a PC program, make it SOOO much
easier and faster than flying blind. Don't get me wrong, I've done it both
ways, especially when working with small chips (AVR parts for example) that
have no on chip debugging facilities, but I much prefer a real debugger as
opposed to watching from the outside.

-Mike
--
Mike vanMeeteren FASTechnologies Corp.
Wakeboarding as much as possible, on a 2007 Air Nautique SV-211.



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