I once had a problem where ADDING a printf "fixed" (actually "masked" is
the right word) the problem I was troubleshooting. Turned out to be an
improper push/pop sequence in assembly and if the timing was just right,
it didn't affect anything. Every time I added code to troubleshoot
through a printf, the problem went away.

Every tool has it's proper use at the proper time. Example: I've done
miter joints on a 10 ft piece of molding with a table saw. It was not
easy. A chop saw would have been faster and more accurate, but I need
to do this twice every 5 years, so I STILL don't have a chop saw.

So I say, if your choice is more tools for the same money, take the
tools.

-Pete

________________________________

From: r...@yahoogroups.com [mailto:r...@yahoogroups.com]
On Behalf Of Scott Henion
Sent: Wednesday, March 05, 2008 9:15 PM
To: r...@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [rabbit-semi] Re: Newbie Rabbit vs. Netburner question...
seulaterbuddy wrote:

every time you stick in the code to "wave the flag" so
to speak, you
have to recompile, and start over.

Mike, i dont know why that would be such a big deal. add the
printf
hit the compile button, 1-2 seconds later press teh download
button,
4-5 seconds after that start your back in business.

As opposed to a fraction of a second for each single-step?

The last time I used DC it took about 25 seconds to compile/download.
You must be using very small programs..

you have made me think about why is it that i have this
stubbornness
to move out of printf's. i have a vague memory of working with a

debugger years ago. i noticed that the device worked in debug
mode
but when i ran her flat out she behaved differently. as it turns
out
when you run something in single step you may get different
results,
because is running that slow. when she's full out she will act
different. so since i know that she will be running full out all
the
time i prefer to keep it that way and stick a printf here and
there.
i must say that i cannot see using anything beyond printf. if in
time
you think of a solid reason to use a debugger shoot it to me.

Yes, DC runs considerably slower with the debug code enabled. Most never
compile a version without the code as it may run different. One of the
advantages of Softools is it runs code the same speed with or without
the debugger. Using printf's in DC slows code way down as their stdio
support is not interrupt driven. It can have a real effect on
performance.

I debug most of my code via my debug interface over the LAN. That
provides printf output and I can look at variables in semi-real time.
Usually printf's are already in the code anyway, and I can do much of
the debugging with it. Real help on the board controlling my generator.
Don't want to drag laptop outside in the freezing code to debug. I just
connect via the LAN and view the debug output. I can add watches for
variables and structures so I can see what is going on. When the
debugger is not connected, printf's are thrown out. So it has minimal
effect on arunning system.

A lot of the debugging has to do with the large amount of code in libs.
There you often have to use the debugger to see what the lib code is
doing A lot of my code is interrupt driven (external ints, timer ints),
printf's are no use there.

There are uP's that do not support printf's or serial ports. I use DSP
processors in my designs, they don't even support a char type in
hardware. The ONCE debugger has been real helpful although, once I wrote
my own debug interface, I don't need it.

I use PIC processors in a lot of designs. Most do not have a serial
port. They do support a debug interface. Real helpful as the chip has
only a few external pins.

I must admit I do not use the DC debugger, it is too slow, buggy and
cumbersome. I usually compile a .bin download it via ethernet then debug
via LAN debug. If that does not work, then I do use their debugger.
--
------------------------------------------
| Scott G. Henion| s...@shdesigns.org |
| Consultant | Stone Mountain, GA |
| SHDesigns http://www.shdesigns.org |
------------------------------------------
Rabbit libs: http://www.shdesigns.org/rabbit/
today's fortune
Hope that the day after you die is a nice day.



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