Reply by Hans-Bernhard Bröker●November 20, 20232023-11-20
Am 20.11.2023 um 08:29 schrieb pozz:
> Il 14/11/2023 19:47, Hans-Bernhard Bröker ha scritto:
>> Am 13.11.2023 um 09:10 schrieb pozz:
>>
>>> However, in some cases, the device is installed far from a PC and
>>> it's difficult to have USB wired cable connection.
>>
>> Define "far",
>
> 10-15 meters should be ok
>
>> and "UART"
>
> Standard TX and RX asynchronous signals as in RS232 standard, but at
> UART low level voltages (3.3V or 5V). Baudrates that I often use are the
> standard from 9600bps up to 115.2kbps.
Then you need an active device that shifts and boosts signal levels, a
good deal closer to the machine in question. A MAX232 equivalent in a
box small enough to count as a plug casing would probably do it.
> The problem with a long cable is often the position of the device that
> is uncomfortable to reach.
"Uncomfortable" should only rule out doing that for use cases at or
below the urgency of "nice-to-have."
Or, to put it differently: if you can't even get there with a suitable
plug attached to some thin-ish cable, that puts the situation beyond
"uncomfortable," into the realm of "practically impossible to use."
Reply by pozz●November 20, 20232023-11-20
Il 14/11/2023 19:47, Hans-Bernhard Bröker ha scritto:
> Am 13.11.2023 um 09:10 schrieb pozz:
>
>> However, in some cases, the device is installed far from a PC and it's
>> difficult to have USB wired cable connection.
>
> Define "far",
10-15 meters should be ok
> and "UART"
Standard TX and RX asynchronous signals as in RS232 standard, but at
UART low level voltages (3.3V or 5V). Baudrates that I often use are the
standard from 9600bps up to 115.2kbps.
> If the interface is actual RS232 of modest baudrate, it could be as
> simple as: make the RS232 cable long, so the USB doesn't have to be.
The problem with a long cable is often the position of the device that
is uncomfortable to reach. Moreover, if I want to record a long session
log (for one or more days), the long cable isn't an option.
Reply by pozz●November 20, 20232023-11-20
Il 15/11/2023 09:16, Peter Heitzer ha scritto:
> Hans-Bernhard Bröker <HBBroeker@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Am 13.11.2023 um 09:10 schrieb pozz:
>
>>> However, in some cases, the device is installed far from a PC and it's
>>> difficult to have USB wired cable connection.
>
>> Define "far", and "UART"
>
>> If the interface is actual RS232 of modest baudrate, it could be as
>> simple as: make the RS232 cable long, so the USB doesn't have to be.
> Or remote control a notebook connected to the devices UART via ssh or
> RDP (if you are using Windows).
As I said, the device is difficult to physically reach and it is often
impossible to install a notebook near it.
Reply by Peter Heitzer●November 15, 20232023-11-15
>> However, in some cases, the device is installed far from a PC and it's
>> difficult to have USB wired cable connection.
>Define "far", and "UART"
>If the interface is actual RS232 of modest baudrate, it could be as
>simple as: make the RS232 cable long, so the USB doesn't have to be.
Or remote control a notebook connected to the devices UART via ssh or
RDP (if you are using Windows).
--
Dipl.-Inform(FH) Peter Heitzer, peter.heitzer@rz.uni-regensburg.de
Reply by Hans-Bernhard Bröker●November 14, 20232023-11-14
Am 13.11.2023 um 09:10 schrieb pozz:
> However, in some cases, the device is installed far from a PC and it's
> difficult to have USB wired cable connection.
Define "far", and "UART"
If the interface is actual RS232 of modest baudrate, it could be as
simple as: make the RS232 cable long, so the USB doesn't have to be.
Reply by Theo●November 13, 20232023-11-13
David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> wrote:
> As I say, look at Silicon Labs Bluetooth modules. There's no point in
> me trying to give the details of the devices I used, since that was
> three or four years ago, but those were close to out-of-the-box - just
> configuration and setup, using the Silicon Labs mobile app. (I was
> communicating between two other cards, rather than a PC, but that should
> make little difference.) There are no doubt a dozen different vendors
> with similar solutions.
>> As I say, look at Silicon Labs Bluetooth modules. There's no point in
>> me trying to give the details of the devices I used, since that was
>> three or four years ago, but those were close to out-of-the-box - just
>> configuration and setup, using the Silicon Labs mobile app. (I was
>> communicating between two other cards, rather than a PC, but that
>> should make little difference.) There are no doubt a dozen different
>> vendors with similar solutions.
>
> I will check.
>
> In the meantime, I found many UART/WiFi adapter based on ESP-01 module.
> I think it should be ok.
>
Yes, I would expect it to be easy to get hold of such modules and
ready-made software for the ESP-32 if you prefer Wifi.
>
>> You haven't said if you need this for two systems or two thousand
>> systems, so that's the best answer you can get so far.
>
> Less than 10 pieces should be ok :-D
>
>
Just make sure that they are not considered part of the main system that
you make, so that you don't have to test and certify them.
Reply by pozz●November 13, 20232023-11-13
Il 13/11/2023 13:15, David Brown ha scritto:
> On 13/11/2023 10:39, pozz wrote:
>> Il 13/11/2023 10:00, David Brown ha scritto:
>>> On 13/11/2023 09:10, pozz wrote:
>>>> I often have embedded boards with a UART that shows debug logging
>>>> messages. Most of the times, only the TX signal is of interest, in a
>>>> few cases the debug UART features a full command line console, so
>>>> both TX and RX lines are of interest.
>>>>
>>>> I have many UART/USB adapters and they work well when I have a
>>>> desktop or mobile PC, running putty or Realterm or a similar
>>>> software, near the device.
>>>>
>>>> However, in some cases, the device is installed far from a PC and
>>>> it's difficult to have USB wired cable connection. So I'm wondering
>>>> if there's an off-the-shelf UART/wireless adapter that could help in
>>>> these cases. Bluetooth? WiFi? Proprietary wireless protocol (with a
>>>> priorietary dongle USB receiver)?
>>>>
>>>> Do you have the same problem as me? How did you solve?
>>>
>>> There are plenty of Bluetooth modules with UART connections, but of
>>> course you need something at the other end. A couple of Silicon Labs
>>> evaluation boards can be configured as linked to each other - then
>>> they can act mostly like a UART cable with a wireless cable, with
>>> very little effort.
>>>
>>> If you need to have the Bluetooth module inside the device, and have
>>> one master PC talking to lots of devices, then you'll need to do a
>>> bit more work. And if it is always installed, then suddenly your
>>> device is classified as a radio communications device, with all the
>>> standards, certifications, EMC rules, and testing that goes along
>>> with that.
>>>
>>> If it is okay to plug something temporarily into the board that needs
>>> debugged, you could set up a Rasberry Pi with a USB battery pack, and
>>> plug that into your TTL-level UART debug signals on the board. Then
>>> you can have Wifi configured in any way you like. A tty to tcp/ip
>>> port converter for remote access should not be difficult to make -
>>> with Python Twisted, it's probably no more than a couple of dozen lines.
>>
>> I know I can design my own solution, maybe using some evaluation boards.
>>
>> However I was asking about something ready to use. Plug the wireless
>> adapter on the debug UART of the device and open putty on the remote
>> PC (here remote means reachable by the RF signal, whatever it is).
>>
>>
>
> As I say, look at Silicon Labs Bluetooth modules. There's no point in
> me trying to give the details of the devices I used, since that was
> three or four years ago, but those were close to out-of-the-box - just
> configuration and setup, using the Silicon Labs mobile app. (I was
> communicating between two other cards, rather than a PC, but that should
> make little difference.) There are no doubt a dozen different vendors
> with similar solutions.
I will check.
In the meantime, I found many UART/WiFi adapter based on ESP-01 module.
I think it should be ok.
> You haven't said if you need this for two systems or two thousand
> systems, so that's the best answer you can get so far.
Less than 10 pieces should be ok :-D
Reply by David Brown●November 13, 20232023-11-13
On 13/11/2023 10:39, pozz wrote:
> Il 13/11/2023 10:00, David Brown ha scritto:
>> On 13/11/2023 09:10, pozz wrote:
>>> I often have embedded boards with a UART that shows debug logging
>>> messages. Most of the times, only the TX signal is of interest, in a
>>> few cases the debug UART features a full command line console, so
>>> both TX and RX lines are of interest.
>>>
>>> I have many UART/USB adapters and they work well when I have a
>>> desktop or mobile PC, running putty or Realterm or a similar
>>> software, near the device.
>>>
>>> However, in some cases, the device is installed far from a PC and
>>> it's difficult to have USB wired cable connection. So I'm wondering
>>> if there's an off-the-shelf UART/wireless adapter that could help in
>>> these cases. Bluetooth? WiFi? Proprietary wireless protocol (with a
>>> priorietary dongle USB receiver)?
>>>
>>> Do you have the same problem as me? How did you solve?
>>
>> There are plenty of Bluetooth modules with UART connections, but of
>> course you need something at the other end. A couple of Silicon Labs
>> evaluation boards can be configured as linked to each other - then
>> they can act mostly like a UART cable with a wireless cable, with very
>> little effort.
>>
>> If you need to have the Bluetooth module inside the device, and have
>> one master PC talking to lots of devices, then you'll need to do a bit
>> more work. And if it is always installed, then suddenly your device
>> is classified as a radio communications device, with all the
>> standards, certifications, EMC rules, and testing that goes along with
>> that.
>>
>> If it is okay to plug something temporarily into the board that needs
>> debugged, you could set up a Rasberry Pi with a USB battery pack, and
>> plug that into your TTL-level UART debug signals on the board. Then
>> you can have Wifi configured in any way you like. A tty to tcp/ip
>> port converter for remote access should not be difficult to make -
>> with Python Twisted, it's probably no more than a couple of dozen lines.
>
> I know I can design my own solution, maybe using some evaluation boards.
>
> However I was asking about something ready to use. Plug the wireless
> adapter on the debug UART of the device and open putty on the remote PC
> (here remote means reachable by the RF signal, whatever it is).
>
>
As I say, look at Silicon Labs Bluetooth modules. There's no point in
me trying to give the details of the devices I used, since that was
three or four years ago, but those were close to out-of-the-box - just
configuration and setup, using the Silicon Labs mobile app. (I was
communicating between two other cards, rather than a PC, but that should
make little difference.) There are no doubt a dozen different vendors
with similar solutions.
You haven't said if you need this for two systems or two thousand
systems, so that's the best answer you can get so far.
Reply by pozz●November 13, 20232023-11-13
Il 13/11/2023 10:00, David Brown ha scritto:
> On 13/11/2023 09:10, pozz wrote:
>> I often have embedded boards with a UART that shows debug logging
>> messages. Most of the times, only the TX signal is of interest, in a
>> few cases the debug UART features a full command line console, so both
>> TX and RX lines are of interest.
>>
>> I have many UART/USB adapters and they work well when I have a desktop
>> or mobile PC, running putty or Realterm or a similar software, near
>> the device.
>>
>> However, in some cases, the device is installed far from a PC and it's
>> difficult to have USB wired cable connection. So I'm wondering if
>> there's an off-the-shelf UART/wireless adapter that could help in
>> these cases. Bluetooth? WiFi? Proprietary wireless protocol (with a
>> priorietary dongle USB receiver)?
>>
>> Do you have the same problem as me? How did you solve?
>
> There are plenty of Bluetooth modules with UART connections, but of
> course you need something at the other end. A couple of Silicon Labs
> evaluation boards can be configured as linked to each other - then they
> can act mostly like a UART cable with a wireless cable, with very little
> effort.
>
> If you need to have the Bluetooth module inside the device, and have one
> master PC talking to lots of devices, then you'll need to do a bit more
> work. And if it is always installed, then suddenly your device is
> classified as a radio communications device, with all the standards,
> certifications, EMC rules, and testing that goes along with that.
>
> If it is okay to plug something temporarily into the board that needs
> debugged, you could set up a Rasberry Pi with a USB battery pack, and
> plug that into your TTL-level UART debug signals on the board. Then you
> can have Wifi configured in any way you like. A tty to tcp/ip port
> converter for remote access should not be difficult to make - with
> Python Twisted, it's probably no more than a couple of dozen lines.
I know I can design my own solution, maybe using some evaluation boards.
However I was asking about something ready to use. Plug the wireless
adapter on the debug UART of the device and open putty on the remote PC
(here remote means reachable by the RF signal, whatever it is).