Hello experts,

For a new project, I am considering the AT91 series of ARM processors from
Atmel.

Anybody here have experience with these processors, and the tools?
I know the "which compiler is best" is a very "religionbased" question, but
nevertheless I'll give it a shot.

So, in your opinion, which tools is worth a look, and which is NOT?

Thanking you in advance.

Best regards
Henrik

In article <43f2e2da$0$144$e...@dread11.news.tele.dk>, henrik8381
@ofir.dk says...
> Hello experts,
> 
> For a new project, I am considering the AT91 series of ARM processors from
> Atmel.
> 
> Anybody here have experience with these processors, and the tools?
> I know the "which compiler is best" is a very "religionbased" question, but
> nevertheless I'll give it a shot.
> 
> So, in your opinion, which tools is worth a look, and which is NOT?
> 
> Thanking you in advance.
> 
> Best regards
> Henrik
> 

Rowley CrossWorks for ARM gets my endorsement.
A custom IDE and debugger using GCC for the compiler/linker.

http://www.rowley.co.uk

--Gene

In article <43f2e2da$0$144$e...@dread11.news.tele.dk>, henrik8381
@ofir.dk says...
> Hello experts,
> 
> For a new project, I am considering the AT91 series of ARM processors from
> Atmel.
> 
> Anybody here have experience with these processors, and the tools?
> I know the "which compiler is best" is a very "religionbased" question, but
> nevertheless I'll give it a shot.
> 
> So, in your opinion, which tools is worth a look, and which is NOT?
> 

I've used the IAR ARM compiler and IDE for several years now.  After one 
or two bugs (which IAR fixed or for which they sent me new source) in 
the first few months, it has run without problems and produced code that
has done the job.  It's rather expensive at about $4000 US.

I've been using gcc-arm  for a few months now.  I must admit that the
system arrived on a laptop set up with Ubuntu Linux  and I have no
idea of the effort required to install the arm tool chain.  It just
works, and the code it generates runs without problems (other than
those intrinsic to the  project).  I now understand just enough about
the Linux system to do the specific programming tasks required.  I'm
sure others on this newsgroup can tell you more about gcc and Linux.


Mark Borgerson

Mark Borgerson wrote:
> In article <43f2e2da$0$144$e...@dread11.news.tele.dk>, henrik8381
> @ofir.dk says...
> 
>>Hello experts,
>>
>>For a new project, I am considering the AT91 series of ARM processors from
>>Atmel.
>>
>>Anybody here have experience with these processors, and the tools?
>>I know the "which compiler is best" is a very "religionbased" question, but
>>nevertheless I'll give it a shot.
>>
>>So, in your opinion, which tools is worth a look, and which is NOT?
>>
> 
> 
> I've used the IAR ARM compiler and IDE for several years now.  After one 
> or two bugs (which IAR fixed or for which they sent me new source) in 
> the first few months, it has run without problems and produced code that
> has done the job.  It's rather expensive at about $4000 US.
> 
> I've been using gcc-arm  for a few months now.  I must admit that the
> system arrived on a laptop set up with Ubuntu Linux  and I have no
> idea of the effort required to install the arm tool chain.  It just
> works, and the code it generates runs without problems (other than
> those intrinsic to the  project).  I now understand just enough about
> the Linux system to do the specific programming tasks required.  I'm
> sure others on this newsgroup can tell you more about gcc and Linux.

I built the GNU toolchains for ARM under both Linux and
Windows/Cygwin. A half-day job, properly done.

Since then, they have been used to produce some hundreds
of kilobytes of very tight embedded code for Atmel AT91's.

-- 

Tauno Voipio
tauno voipio (at) iki fi

In article <0iLIf.383$X...@read3.inet.fi>, t...@INVALIDiki.fi 
says...
> Mark Borgerson wrote:
> > In article <43f2e2da$0$144$e...@dread11.news.tele.dk>, henrik8381
> > @ofir.dk says...
> > 
> >>Hello experts,
> >>
> >>For a new project, I am considering the AT91 series of ARM processors from
> >>Atmel.
> >>
> >>Anybody here have experience with these processors, and the tools?
> >>I know the "which compiler is best" is a very "religionbased" question, but
> >>nevertheless I'll give it a shot.
> >>
> >>So, in your opinion, which tools is worth a look, and which is NOT?
> >>
> > 
> > 
> > I've used the IAR ARM compiler and IDE for several years now.  After one 
> > or two bugs (which IAR fixed or for which they sent me new source) in 
> > the first few months, it has run without problems and produced code that
> > has done the job.  It's rather expensive at about $4000 US.
> > 
> > I've been using gcc-arm  for a few months now.  I must admit that the
> > system arrived on a laptop set up with Ubuntu Linux  and I have no
> > idea of the effort required to install the arm tool chain.  It just
> > works, and the code it generates runs without problems (other than
> > those intrinsic to the  project).  I now understand just enough about
> > the Linux system to do the specific programming tasks required.  I'm
> > sure others on this newsgroup can tell you more about gcc and Linux.
> 
> I built the GNU toolchains for ARM under both Linux and
> Windows/Cygwin. A half-day job, properly done.
> 
> Since then, they have been used to produce some hundreds
> of kilobytes of very tight embedded code for Atmel AT91's.

I'll add that getting Rowley CrossWorks up took all of about 9 minutes,
as they have taken care of all the messy bits.  Price is 495 GBP, or ~US
$860.

--Gene

Gene S. Berkowitz wrote:
> In article <0iLIf.383$X...@read3.inet.fi>, t...@INVALIDiki.fi
> says...
> > Mark Borgerson wrote:
> > > In article <43f2e2da$0$144$e...@dread11.news.tele.dk>, henrik8381
> > > @ofir.dk says...
> > >
> > >>Hello experts,
> > >>
> > >>For a new project, I am considering the AT91 series of ARM processors from
> > >>Atmel.
> > >>
> > >>Anybody here have experience with these processors, and the tools?
> > >>I know the "which compiler is best" is a very "religionbased" question, but
> > >>nevertheless I'll give it a shot.
> > >>
> > >>So, in your opinion, which tools is worth a look, and which is NOT?
> > >>
> > >
> > >
> > > I've used the IAR ARM compiler and IDE for several years now.  After one
> > > or two bugs (which IAR fixed or for which they sent me new source) in
> > > the first few months, it has run without problems and produced code that
> > > has done the job.  It's rather expensive at about $4000 US.
> > >
> > > I've been using gcc-arm  for a few months now.  I must admit that the
> > > system arrived on a laptop set up with Ubuntu Linux  and I have no
> > > idea of the effort required to install the arm tool chain.  It just
> > > works, and the code it generates runs without problems (other than
> > > those intrinsic to the  project).  I now understand just enough about
> > > the Linux system to do the specific programming tasks required.  I'm
> > > sure others on this newsgroup can tell you more about gcc and Linux.
> >
> > I built the GNU toolchains for ARM under both Linux and
> > Windows/Cygwin. A half-day job, properly done.
> >
> > Since then, they have been used to produce some hundreds
> > of kilobytes of very tight embedded code for Atmel AT91's.
>
> I'll add that getting Rowley CrossWorks up took all of about 9 minutes,
> as they have taken care of all the messy bits.  Price is 495 GBP, or ~US
> $860.


Their debugger is very comprehensive, and they also supply a nice USB
JTAG interface - CrossConnect - for 99 GBP. Their software also works
with low-cost Wiggler clones, which can cause problems when using GNU
tools.

Leon

Op Wed, 15 Feb 2006 16:44:31 +0100 schreef Mark Borgerson  
<mborgerson.at.comcast.net>:

> In article <43f2e2da$0$144$e...@dread11.news.tele.dk>, henrik8381
> @ofir.dk says...
>> Hello experts,
>>
>> For a new project, I am considering the AT91 series of ARM processors  
>> from Atmel.
>>
>> Anybody here have experience with these processors, and the tools?
>> I know the "which compiler is best" is a very "religionbased" question,  
>> but nevertheless I'll give it a shot.
>>
>> So, in your opinion, which tools is worth a look, and which is NOT?
>>
>
> I've used the IAR ARM compiler and IDE for several years now.  After one
> or two bugs (which IAR fixed or for which they sent me new source) in
> the first few months, it has run without problems and produced code that
> has done the job.  It's rather expensive at about $4000 US.

For very low volumes, yes.  For high volumes, it costs less than GNU.   
Assuming reduced code size means you can use a cheaper device, that is.


-- 
Gemaakt met Opera's revolutionaire e-mailprogramma:  
http://www.opera.com/mail/

"Boudewijn Dijkstra" <b...@indes.com> writes:

> Op Wed, 15 Feb 2006 16:44:31 +0100 schreef Mark Borgerson
> <mborgerson.at.comcast.net>:
>
>> In article <43f2e2da$0$144$e...@dread11.news.tele.dk>, henrik8381
>> @ofir.dk says...
>>> Hello experts,
>>>
>>> For a new project, I am considering the AT91 series of ARM
>>> processors  from Atmel.
>>>
>>> Anybody here have experience with these processors, and the tools?
>>> I know the "which compiler is best" is a very "religionbased"
>>> question,  but nevertheless I'll give it a shot.
>>>
>>> So, in your opinion, which tools is worth a look, and which is NOT?
>>>
>>
>> I've used the IAR ARM compiler and IDE for several years now.  After one
>> or two bugs (which IAR fixed or for which they sent me new source) in
>> the first few months, it has run without problems and produced code that
>> has done the job.  It's rather expensive at about $4000 US.
>
> For very low volumes, yes.  For high volumes, it costs less than GNU.
> Assuming reduced code size means you can use a cheaper device, that
> is.

And assuming that it does in fact out perform GNU. This is not at all
obvious to me, in fact the reverse seems more likely.

<http://www.compuphase.com/dhrystone.htm>;

-- 

John Devereux

Op Fri, 17 Feb 2006 12:25:53 +0100 schreef John Devereux  
<j...@THISdevereux.me.uk>:

> "Boudewijn Dijkstra" <b...@indes.com> writes:
>
>> Op Wed, 15 Feb 2006 16:44:31 +0100 schreef Mark Borgerson
>> <mborgerson.at.comcast.net>:
>>
>>> In article <43f2e2da$0$144$e...@dread11.news.tele.dk>, henrik8381
>>> @ofir.dk says...
>>>> Hello experts,
>>>>
>>>> For a new project, I am considering the AT91 series of ARM
>>>> processors  from Atmel.
>>>>
>>>> Anybody here have experience with these processors, and the tools?
>>>> I know the "which compiler is best" is a very "religionbased"
>>>> question,  but nevertheless I'll give it a shot.
>>>>
>>>> So, in your opinion, which tools is worth a look, and which is NOT?
>>>>
>>>
>>> I've used the IAR ARM compiler and IDE for several years now.  After  
>>> one
>>> or two bugs (which IAR fixed or for which they sent me new source) in
>>> the first few months, it has run without problems and produced code  
>>> that
>>> has done the job.  It's rather expensive at about $4000 US.
>>
>> For very low volumes, yes.  For high volumes, it costs less than GNU.
>> Assuming reduced code size means you can use a cheaper device, that
>> is.
>
> And assuming that it does in fact out perform GNU. This is not at all
> obvious to me, in fact the reverse seems more likely.
>
> <http://www.compuphase.com/dhrystone.htm>;

Interesting article, but fairly irrelevant for a comparison between GNU  
and IAR (which is not Keil).

<http://www.iar.se/index.php?show=4082_ENG&reflogin=4082_ENG>;



-- 
Gemaakt met Opera's revolutionaire e-mailprogramma:  
http://www.opera.com/mail/

Boudewijn Dijkstra wrote:
> Op Fri, 17 Feb 2006 12:25:53 +0100 schreef John Devereux 
> <j...@THISdevereux.me.uk>:
> 
>> "Boudewijn Dijkstra" <b...@indes.com> writes:
>>
>>> Op Wed, 15 Feb 2006 16:44:31 +0100 schreef Mark Borgerson
>>> <mborgerson.at.comcast.net>:
>>>
>>>> In article <43f2e2da$0$144$e...@dread11.news.tele.dk>, henrik8381
>>>> @ofir.dk says...
>>>>> Hello experts,
>>>>>
>>>>> For a new project, I am considering the AT91 series of ARM
>>>>> processors  from Atmel.
>>>>>
>>>>> Anybody here have experience with these processors, and the tools?
>>>>> I know the "which compiler is best" is a very "religionbased"
>>>>> question,  but nevertheless I'll give it a shot.
>>>>>
>>>>> So, in your opinion, which tools is worth a look, and which is NOT?
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I've used the IAR ARM compiler and IDE for several years now.  After 
>>>> one
>>>> or two bugs (which IAR fixed or for which they sent me new source) in
>>>> the first few months, it has run without problems and produced code 
>>>> that
>>>> has done the job.  It's rather expensive at about $4000 US.
>>>
>>> For very low volumes, yes.  For high volumes, it costs less than GNU.
>>> Assuming reduced code size means you can use a cheaper device, that
>>> is.
>>
>> And assuming that it does in fact out perform GNU. This is not at all
>> obvious to me, in fact the reverse seems more likely.
>>
>> <http://www.compuphase.com/dhrystone.htm>;
> 
> Interesting article, but fairly irrelevant for a comparison between GNU 
> and IAR (which is not Keil).
> 
> <http://www.iar.se/index.php?show=4082_ENG&reflogin=4082_ENG>;
> 

Disclaimer - I have never used the ARM, and I don't know how the various 
ARM compilers compare in practice, so I'm just looking at this from a 
general viewpoint.

The IAR comparison page is slightly better than Keil's, but not much, 
for similar reasons.  Other points are: there is no source code 
available for the benchmarks, there are no run-time speeds given (for 
all we know from this page, the extra code compactness has come at a 
large run-time penalty, which has its own cost), and there is no 
indication as to the libraries.  Some of the benchmarks look very much 
like large extra sections of library were linked in (by gcc and Keil), 
which gives a large skew to the results.  This is typical of things like 
full printf support.  There are several ways to reduce this overhead, 
which will also depend on how the tools were set up in the first place. 
  And of course, library overhead may not be as much of an issue in a 
real application if lots of other code sections use the libraries.

If I were considering using an ARM, and choosing a compiler toolkit with 
a view to generating fast and/or compact code, I would not consider IAR 
or Keil's pages to be worth the pixels they written on.  I'd ask around, 
such as in this newsgroup, and I'd try out demo versions myself. 
Reading a vendor's own "benchmark" page is hardly an objective reference.