On 2007-03-27, Chris Hills <c...@phaedsys.org> wrote:

>>> See  http://www.phaedsys.demon.co.uk/chris/mistrayc/MISTRAYC.pdf
>>> for a REAL programmers guide for people who do not want their creativity
>>> limited.
>>
>>Except that the file could not be opened (even from the web page above it).
>
> Very strange as I cut and pasted the link from the web browser....
> Can any one else see the pdf OK?

Worked fine for me.

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow!  NOT fucking!! Also
                                  at               not a PACKAGE of LOOSE-LEAF
                               visi.com            PAPER!!

"Chris Hills" <c...@phaedsys.org> wrote in message 
news:T...@phaedsys.demon.co.uk...
> In article <eubpe9$538$1$8...@news.demon.co.uk>, Paul E. Bennett 
> <p...@amleth.demon.co.uk> writes
>>Chris Hills wrote:
>>
>>> You might think that I could not possibly comment
>>>
>>>
>>> See  http://www.phaedsys.demon.co.uk/chris/mistrayc/MISTRAYC.pdf
>>> for a REAL programmers guide for people who do not want their creativity
>>> limited.
>>
>>Except that the file could not be opened (even from the web page above 
>>it).
>>
>
> Very strange as I cut and pasted the link from the web browser....
> Can any one else see the pdf OK?

Looks fine here. (Apart from some of the spelling ;) ;).)

Steve
http://www.fivetrees.com 

> Yes, there is a lot of silly things like that in MISRA. It is quite
> difficult to be 100% compliant.
I accept this comment - maybe stupidity comes from people who expect
100% MISRA compliance. But unfortunately it is expected from me.

> Yes, this is correct. First of all, an integer should not be used as the
> switch argument; switches should be used with enums only.
It is just an example. The same example applies to enumerated type.

> Yes, this is correct. You should not modify, alias or copy the pointers.
> Work with arrays and indexes only.
a = &x[i] is absolutely equivalent to a=x+i (assuming i is an integer
and a&x are pointers of the same type). It is not a big problem but it
is a senseless warning. And a = x+i makes more sense in some
circumstances. I acknowledge that this is my personal opinion and
maybe it is not entirely correct, and it is finally minor problem - I
can always use a=&x[i].

> It is better then nothing, anyway.
I agree.

> I had to write MISRA compliant code, and yes, it is too restrictive and
> very annoying at times. Nevertheless it does a good job on extirpating
> the hackery.
So in order to stop hackery we should code in BASIC ?

> MISRA is not too bad. You just have to get used to it.
10x, unfotunately I USE it.

> Unfortunately, there is no replacement for the common sense, experience,
> good taste and intelligence (Stroustrup).
yes, I acknowledge - I am stupid too.

> If you are paid to write MISRA compliant code, you should write MISRA
> compliant code. What is the problem?
If I'm paid to be a hooker, it will be a problem for me to be a hooker.

> I hope you are referring to the latest examples/code snippets released
> (earlier this year I think) and not the snippets that came out with the
> earlier version of the MISRA guidelines. Engineers should all be working to
> current best practice and that means mindful of the latest and emergent
> standards.
>
> I notice that the link you provided was from 2005.

Correct - I have to clarify that I refer to old MISRA rules. I am not
aware of latest MISRA rules. They are not freely available and I have
not access to latest rules but I sincerely hope that latest rules are
a lot better.

> If your job requires that you write MISRA-compliant code, I would
> think you'd learn how to avoid the warnings and stop wasting precious
> time.
I agree but it is annoying all the time. And the official position of
my employer is not clean.
And also clients of my employer think that _every_ MISRA deviation is
dangerous and terrible. And what I claim is that MISRA people are
guilty about this situation. It is not about me - I can always find
another job. It is about many poor embedded developers all over the
world.

d...@rootshell.be wrote:


>>I had to write MISRA compliant code, and yes, it is too restrictive and
>>very annoying at times. Nevertheless it does a good job on extirpating
>>the hackery.
> 
> So in order to stop hackery we should code in BASIC ?

Actually, it would be good to code the embedded stuff in Ada, Java or at 
least C#. However, hackery is a not a technical problem. The 
non-technical problems can't be avoided by any technical means. You may 
think of MISRA as something like a marching drill in the army. Albeit it 
is useless from the combat prospective, it makes everyone disciplined 
and compliant.



>>If you are paid to write MISRA compliant code, you should write MISRA
>>compliant code. What is the problem?
> 
> If I'm paid to be a hooker, it will be a problem for me to be a hooker.
> 

Not really, in the wide sense. You are leasing your head and hands, and 
a hooker is leasing the other body members. The top class hooker is 
called a celeb, the difference is only in the amount of many paid.

VLV

In article <1...@n76g2000hsh.googlegroups.com>, 
d...@rootshell.be writes
>
>
>> I hope you are referring to the latest examples/code snippets released
>> (earlier this year I think) and not the snippets that came out with the
>> earlier version of the MISRA guidelines. Engineers should all be working to
>> current best practice and that means mindful of the latest and emergent
>> standards.
>>
>> I notice that the link you provided was from 2005.
>
>Correct - I have to clarify that I refer to old MISRA rules. I am not
>aware of latest MISRA rules. They are not freely available

They are freely available.

>and I have
>not access to latest rules

http://www.misra-c.com/


-- 
\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\
\/\/\/\/\ Chris Hills  Staffs  England     /\/\/\/\/
/\/\/ c...@phaedsys.org      www.phaedsys.org \/\/\
\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/

In article <1...@b75g2000hsg.googlegroups.com>, 
d...@rootshell.be writes
>> If your job requires that you write MISRA-compliant code, I would
>> think you'd learn how to avoid the warnings and stop wasting precious
>> time.
>I agree but it is annoying all the time. And the official position of
>my employer is not clean.
>And also clients of my employer think that _every_ MISRA deviation is
>dangerous and terrible.

Well you have to be able to justify them.  What deviations do you want?

> And what I claim is that MISRA people are
>guilty about this situation.

What situation?

> It is not about me - I can always find
>another job. It is about many poor embedded developers all over the
>world.

They can also find other jobs.

-- 
\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\
\/\/\/\/\ Chris Hills  Staffs  England     /\/\/\/\/
/\/\/ c...@phaedsys.org      www.phaedsys.org \/\/\
\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/

Chris Hills wrote:


> See  http://www.phaedsys.demon.co.uk/chris/mistrayc/MISTRAYC.pdf
> for a REAL programmers guide for people who do not want their creativity 
> limited.

Though it is not too creative just to take MISRA and revert every rule 
upside down.

VLV

Chris Hills wrote:

> They are freely available.

Unless he was another cheapskate looking for the zero cost version. 
 
>>and I have
>>not access to latest rules
> 
> http://www.misra-c.com/

...and quite reasonable prices too. 

-- 
********************************************************************
Paul E. Bennett ....................<email://p...@amleth.demon.co.uk>
Forth based HIDECS Consultancy .....<http://www.amleth.demon.co.uk/>;
Mob: +44 (0)7811-639972
Tel: +44 (0)1235-811095
Going Forth Safely ..... EBA. www.electric-boat-association.org.uk..
********************************************************************