On Jun 16, 10:29 pm, Jim Granville <no.s...@designtools.maps.co.nz>
wrote:
>   That is likely also the legal framework, behind the note Joerg found :
>
> Quote: "After June 18th you have the option to purchase Windows Vista
> Business or Windows Vista Ultimate with a downgrade (sic) service to
> Windows XP Professional."


No, this is what they call "Vista Bonus" which is the most expensive
version.  In essence, you are paying for both versions of the OS.

Rick

On Jun 16, 9:09 pm, Tom=E1s =D3 h=C9ilidhe <t...@lavabit.com> wrote:
>
> I'd switch to Mac myself but I'm just a bit... eh... set in my ways. I
> tried to switch to Linux but I jut got pissed off with the bugs and
> lack of functionality and now I've pretty much given it the boot.
> There's projects running at the moment where people are trying to get
> Mac OS to run on normal IBM-compatible machines that normally run
> Windows. I might give it a go at some stage... but for now I'm more
> than happy with my heavily customised installation of XP.


I would be happy to consider the Mac if it would run the software that
I use.  But the FGPA vendors don't support it and the PCB layout
software I like doesn't run on it... at least I haven't heard that it
does.  Will the Mac run PC software like Linux does using something
like WINE?

Rick

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ZnJhaWQgb2YuDQo=

rickman wrote:
>Will the Mac run PC software like Linux does
>using something like WINE?

There are several ways:
www.javarants.com/C1242049796/E20060904143855+A.true.Windows.install+V" target=_blank rel="nofollow">http://www.google.com/search?q=cache:XxGa8W27lKkJ:www.javarants.com/C1242049796/E20060904143855+A.true.Windows.install+V
irtual.machine+libraries+poor.3D.performance+much.lower.disk.performance+partial-access-to-the-hardware+*-reduced-CPU-pe
rformance+reboot+Windows-license+*-*-*-license-*-*-*-required&strip=1

On Jun 16, 10:58=A0pm, rickman <gnu...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I use. =A0But the FGPA vendors don't support it and the PCB layout
> software I like doesn't run on it... at least I haven't heard that it
> does. =A0Will the Mac run PC software like Linux does using something

Sorta. You can dual-boot Intel Macs to Windows - but this puts you
back in exactly the same position of needing to acquire a Windows
license. You can also use virtualization software like Parallels
Desktop, but (a) you still need a Windows license, and (b) my
experience at least is that a fair percentage of embedded dev hardware
doesn't work in virtualization. Some does, some doesn't, it's very hit
or miss. Currently I do about 60% of my work on a MacBook in MacOS;
the remainder is split between Linux and WinXP. I was given a free
Vista Professional license by Microsoft, but I haven't got a machine
that's capable of running it, due to missing drivers. Really, I don't
think it's missing drivers, I think it's that none of my machines have
graphics cards that support Vista's DRM requirements, but whatever -
the installer complains and I haven't bothered to go further and see
what happens.

Software vendors are starting to take more notice of MacOS. The usual
route is for the Linux version to be rebuilt as an X11 binary for
MacOS, since that's not much work. Ugly, but serviceable. The next
step is for it to be rebuilt as a native app. EAGLE has taken that
route (yay! V5 is MacOS native!)

BTW you haven't yet mentioned the fact that 60% of the drivers for
embedded dev hardware are unsigned. Vista 32-bit will not by default
allow you to load unsigned drivers (though it is possible to coerce
it). Vista 64-bit will not load unsigned drivers, period.

rickman wrote:
> 
... snip ...
> 
> What experiences have people had with Vista?

See for yourself:

 <http://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/~pgut001/pubs/vista_cost.txt>;
 <http://www.securityfocus.com/columnists/423>;
 <http://www.schneier.com/crypto-gram-0702.html#8>;
 <http://www.aaxnet.com/editor/edit043.html>;

-- 
 [mail]: Chuck F (cbfalconer at maineline dot net) 
 [page]: <http://cbfalconer.home.att.net>;
            Try the download section.


** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **

Tomás Ó hÉilidhe wrote:
> On Jun 17, 1:53 am, rickman <gnu...@gmail.com> wrote:
<snip>

My first-hand experience with Vista is fairly limited - it came with a 
laptop I have, and I was not impressed.  If I had wanted a toy, I'd have 
bought a playstation.

For each generation of windows, MS have been trying to make the OS 
easier to use for common tasks.  The problem is that it's only *their* 
definition of common tasks, and it comes at the expense of making less 
common things harder.

People often say that Linux has a steep learning curve compared to 
Windows.  That's not actually a very accurate picture.  It's more 
correct to think that Windows has a steep learning curve, but fairly low 
offset - it's easy to get into, but hard to do more advanced stuff.  And 
it's getting steeper all the time.  Linux, on the other hand, has a much 
flatter learning curve, but a higher offset - once you've got the 
basics, you can get a lot further more easily.  And the offset and start 
curve are getting easier all the time.

> As for Linux... well at the moment I've got Kubuntu and Backtrack
> installed. Linux is still a long way away from replacing Windows, and
> both sadly and frankly, I don't think a free operating system can ever
> replace a paid-for one. Don't get me wrong, there's bucketloads of
> fantastic free software out there, OpenVPN for example, but when it
> comes to a great big operating system, you need to pay the lads.
> 

This all depends on your use.  For an experienced "power user" on 
windows, it's hard to move to Linux - things don't work as you expect. 
It takes time to re-learn things.  I use XP for my main desktop, because 
it is what I am most familiar with - but I have kubuntu on a Virtual Box 
machine for when I need something windows can't provide (such as the 
occasional application, better networking, or more convenient software 
installation).  I also use kubuntu on my laptop.

For an everyday user of OpenOffice, FireFox and Thunderbird, the change 
is barely noticeably - my wife and kids have no problems using the 
kubuntu laptop.

And for server usage, Windows has a very long way to go before it can 
come close to the power, flexibility, convenience, manageability and 
value for money of Linux.

rickman wrote:
> On Jun 16, 10:29 pm, Jim Granville <no.s...@designtools.maps.co.nz>
> wrote:
>>   That is likely also the legal framework, behind the note Joerg found :
>>
>> Quote: "After June 18th you have the option to purchase Windows Vista
>> Business or Windows Vista Ultimate with a downgrade (sic) service to
>> Windows XP Professional."
> 
> 
> No, this is what they call "Vista Bonus" which is the most expensive
> version.  In essence, you are paying for both versions of the OS.
> 
> Rick

I don't think you are paying for both versions of the OS - you are 
paying MS for a single OS license, and you are paying Dell for the 
"downgrade service".  At least, that's how I interpret the wording.

You can also think of it as a simple price increase - after all, XP is 
worth a lot more than Vista.

rickman wrote:
> Will the Mac run PC software like Linux does using something like WINE?

Perfectly well using either Parallels or VMWare.
You still need a Windows license, of course.

On Jun 17, 10:06 am, Clifford Heath <n...@spam.please.net> wrote:
> rickman wrote:
> > Will the Mac run PC software like Linux does using something like WINE?
>
> Perfectly well using either Parallels or VMWare.
> You still need a Windows license, of course.

Hi,

by chance have you tried the Codewarrior Suite from Freescale with
Parallels (and/or Bootcamp)? It's is working? and what about the
USBTap and USBtoSerial adapter?

Another thing: some of you is using Altium Designer with a Mac
(through Parallels or Bootcamp)?

Thanks

Bye Jack