Reply by John F. Eldredge March 1, 20092009-03-01
On Thu, 29 Jan 2009 22:42:30 -0800, nnadal wrote:

> On 29 ene, 17:04, LittleAlex <alex.lo...@email.com> wrote: >> On Jan 28, 11:40 pm, nna...@terra.es wrote: >> >> > INCREDIBLE!! >> > the problem on a new series PCB, the prototype worked well but in the >> > last version there was some resistance or short circuit in the bus >> > lines wich hangued the cpu and possibly destroyed the XCS05 (with >> > strange white or black substance going out of the gnd or vcc pins). >> > With a 5V supply between the line and GND we eliminated the shorts >> > but >> > appeared after few minutes. We try to measure the resistance of the >> > lines with a tester and found to be lower and lower, accelerating the >> > decrease if we heated the PCB. Anybody knows the explanation of that >> > ? >> > thank you >> >> > Narcis Nadal >> >> I have seen something like this before. >> >> In my case, the PCB laminate was slightly porous, and the tin plating >> oozed into cracks. &nbsp;I would set me bench supply to 5V, and up the >> current limit until I burned them out. &nbsp;I would need to repeat this >> ever other day until I got new PCB's in. >> >> AL > > I don't know if it is foam but is so dense. We speculate about heated > flux. Arround the "resistance" of the tracks, can be possible for a > liquid proceeding from the manufacture of the pcb to stay unther the > green barnish ? If it where an acid there were possible to change the > resistance with the temperature and the copper ? Is possible to do > something similar with defluxer drained in a via and interacting with > something inside the pcb? > > Thank you > Narcis Nadal
The black substance could be melted IC casing plastic, if the ICs are getting hot enough. I once had a lamp power cord short out, due to excessive flexing cracking the synthetic-rubber insulation. Some of the rubber insulation was transformed into a viscous green liquid, which remained liquid even after everything cooled down. Apparently the heat had triggered a chemical reaction between the insulation and the copper wiring, hence the green color. -- John F. Eldredge -- john@jfeldredge.com PGP key available from http://pgp.mit.edu "Reserve your right to think, for even to think wrongly is better than not to think at all." -- Hypatia of Alexandria
Reply by LittleAlex January 30, 20092009-01-30
On Jan 29, 2:51 pm, David Brown
<david.br...@hesbynett.removethisbit.no> wrote:
> LittleAlex wrote: > > On Jan 28, 11:40 pm, nna...@terra.es wrote: > >> INCREDIBLE!! > >> the problem on a new series PCB, the prototype worked well but in the > >> last version there was some resistance or > >> short circuit in the bus lines wich hangued the cpu and possibly > >> destroyed the XCS05 (with strange white or black substance going out > >> of the gnd or vcc pins). > >> With a 5V supply between the line and GND we eliminated the shorts > >> but > >> appeared after few minutes. We try to measure the resistance of the > >> lines with a tester and found to be lower and lower, accelerating the > >> decrease if we heated the PCB. Anybody knows the explanation of > >> that ? > >> thank you > > >> Narcis Nadal > > > I have seen something like this before. > > > In my case, the PCB laminate was slightly porous, and the tin plating > > oozed into cracks. I would set me bench supply to 5V, and up the > > current limit until I burned them out. I would need to repeat this > > ever other day until I got new PCB's in. > > Wouldn't it work better with a higher voltage supply (with a large > current capability) to more permanently blow out the shorts? It would > also make it easier to see where the problems are (look for the black > marks!).
The theory was that anything over 5V would let the magic smoke out of the IC's. I was doing this to stuffed boards. AL
Reply by January 30, 20092009-01-30
On 29 ene, 17:04, LittleAlex <alex.lo...@email.com> wrote:
> On Jan 28, 11:40 pm, nna...@terra.es wrote: > > > INCREDIBLE!! > > the problem on a new series PCB, the prototype worked well but in the > > last version there was some resistance or > > short circuit in the bus lines wich hangued the cpu and possibly > > destroyed the XCS05 (with strange white or black substance going out > > of the gnd or vcc pins). > > With a 5V supply between the line and GND we eliminated the shorts > > but > > appeared after few minutes. We try to measure the resistance of the > > lines with a tester and found to be lower and lower, accelerating the > > decrease if we heated the PCB. Anybody knows the explanation of > > that ? > > thank you > > > Narcis Nadal > > I have seen something like this before. > > In my case, the PCB laminate was slightly porous, and the tin plating > oozed into cracks. =A0I would set me bench supply to 5V, and up the > current limit until I burned them out. =A0I would need to repeat this > ever other day until I got new PCB's in. > > AL
I don't know if it is foam but is so dense. We speculate about heated flux. Arround the "resistance" of the tracks, can be possible for a liquid proceeding from the manufacture of the pcb to stay unther the green barnish ? If it where an acid there were possible to change the resistance with the temperature and the copper ? Is possible to do something similar with defluxer drained in a via and interacting with something inside the pcb? Thank you Narcis Nadal
Reply by Stephen Pelc January 29, 20092009-01-29
On Thu, 29 Jan 2009 23:01:08 +0100, Falk Willberg
<Faweglassenlk@falk-willberg.de> wrote:

>In order to remove the short circuits on my homebrew PCBs I used an old >2200uF Capacitor and his maximum rated voltage (~30V).
When I worked in an old (Strowger) telephone exchange, the 50v bus bars were huge, and we did everything on live equipment. When a pice of wirewrap (remember when you wire-wrapped with Lindstrom pliers) wire fell into the frame, we just changed the rack fuses for something unmentionably large. The day a spanner fell across the bus bars was memorable. A single cell of the exchange battery was a cube about 5 feet in each dimension! Stephen -- Stephen Pelc, stephenXXX@mpeforth.com MicroProcessor Engineering Ltd - More Real, Less Time 133 Hill Lane, Southampton SO15 5AF, England tel: +44 (0)23 8063 1441, fax: +44 (0)23 8033 9691 web: http://www.mpeforth.com - free VFX Forth downloads
Reply by Falk Willberg January 29, 20092009-01-29
David Brown schrieb:
> LittleAlex wrote:
...
>> In my case, the PCB laminate was slightly porous, and the tin plating >> oozed into cracks. I would set me bench supply to 5V, and up the >> current limit until I burned them out. I would need to repeat this >> ever other day until I got new PCB's in. >> > > Wouldn't it work better with a higher voltage supply (with a large > current capability) to more permanently blow out the shorts? It would > also make it easier to see where the problems are (look for the black > marks!).
In order to remove the short circuits on my homebrew PCBs I used an old 2200uF Capacitor and his maximum rated voltage (~30V). Falk
Reply by David Brown January 29, 20092009-01-29
LittleAlex wrote:
> On Jan 28, 11:40 pm, nna...@terra.es wrote: >> INCREDIBLE!! >> the problem on a new series PCB, the prototype worked well but in the >> last version there was some resistance or >> short circuit in the bus lines wich hangued the cpu and possibly >> destroyed the XCS05 (with strange white or black substance going out >> of the gnd or vcc pins). >> With a 5V supply between the line and GND we eliminated the shorts >> but >> appeared after few minutes. We try to measure the resistance of the >> lines with a tester and found to be lower and lower, accelerating the >> decrease if we heated the PCB. Anybody knows the explanation of >> that ? >> thank you >> >> Narcis Nadal > > I have seen something like this before. > > In my case, the PCB laminate was slightly porous, and the tin plating > oozed into cracks. I would set me bench supply to 5V, and up the > current limit until I burned them out. I would need to repeat this > ever other day until I got new PCB's in. >
Wouldn't it work better with a higher voltage supply (with a large current capability) to more permanently blow out the shorts? It would also make it easier to see where the problems are (look for the black marks!).
Reply by -jg January 29, 20092009-01-29
On Jan 30, 5:47=A0am, "John B" <spamj_baraclo...@blockerzetnet.co.uk>
wrote:
> Ah, the joys of RoHS. You probably have tin whiskers. See here: > > http://www.siliconfareast.com/whiskers.htm
We have struck some field reliability issues we suspect is tin whiskers/ fretting corrosion on PLCC sockets. - the joys of RoHS indeed.... :( -jg
Reply by -jg January 29, 20092009-01-29
On Jan 29, 7:40=A0pm, nna...@terra.es wrote:
> INCREDIBLE!! > the problem on a new series PCB, the prototype worked well but in the > last version there was some resistance or > short circuit in the bus lines wich hangued the cpu and possibly > destroyed the XCS05 (with strange white or black substance going out > of the gnd or vcc pins). > With a 5V supply between the line and GND we eliminated the shorts > but > appeared after few minutes. We try to measure the resistance of the > lines with a tester and found to be lower and lower, accelerating the > decrease if we heated the PCB. Anybody knows the explanation of > that ? > thank you > > Narcis Nadal
Rodent urine ? -jg
Reply by John B January 29, 20092009-01-29
On 29/01/2009 nnadal@terra.es wrote:

> > INCREDIBLE!! > the problem on a new series PCB, the prototype worked well but in the > last version there was some resistance or > short circuit in the bus lines wich hangued the cpu and possibly > destroyed the XCS05 (with strange white or black substance going out > of the gnd or vcc pins). > With a 5V supply between the line and GND we eliminated the shorts > but > appeared after few minutes. We try to measure the resistance of the > lines with a tester and found to be lower and lower, accelerating the > decrease if we heated the PCB. Anybody knows the explanation of > that ? > thank you > > Narcis Nadal
Ah, the joys of RoHS. You probably have tin whiskers. See here: http://www.siliconfareast.com/whiskers.htm -- John B
Reply by LittleAlex January 29, 20092009-01-29
On Jan 28, 11:40 pm, nna...@terra.es wrote:
> INCREDIBLE!! > the problem on a new series PCB, the prototype worked well but in the > last version there was some resistance or > short circuit in the bus lines wich hangued the cpu and possibly > destroyed the XCS05 (with strange white or black substance going out > of the gnd or vcc pins). > With a 5V supply between the line and GND we eliminated the shorts > but > appeared after few minutes. We try to measure the resistance of the > lines with a tester and found to be lower and lower, accelerating the > decrease if we heated the PCB. Anybody knows the explanation of > that ? > thank you > > Narcis Nadal
I have seen something like this before. In my case, the PCB laminate was slightly porous, and the tin plating oozed into cracks. I would set me bench supply to 5V, and up the current limit until I burned them out. I would need to repeat this ever other day until I got new PCB's in. AL