Michael N. Moran wrote:

> Gary Kato wrote:
>>>All of that long winded non-sense to say that
>>>I agree the best tools include the whiteboard
>>>and markers ;-)
>>>
>> 
>> 
>> And don't forget a camera or a white board scanner to capture it!
> 
> The camera has never worked very well for me.
> 
> I usually sit down with the laptop and capture
> to Visio, or more recently Open Office Draw.
> 
> I've always lusted after one of those huge white
> boards with the vector drawing capture. I have
> no experience with their *actual* usability, however.
> 
> 
I've used both - one a 4'x8' with printer attached and one with wireless 
pens with a reciever suction cupped to the side.  The printer one was the 
best.  The wireless one ... the rule was write slow and big for it to 
capture with any legibility

Jim

There is a low cost ($80 or so) package from Pixid called Whiteboard
Photo that
does a great job of turning a digital camera image of a white board or a
sketched
sheet into a clean image. Even corrects perspective error on the
original image.

w..


> >All of that long winded non-sense to say that
> >I agree the best tools include the whiteboard
> >and markers ;-)
> >
>
> And don't forget a camera or a white board scanner to capture it!

We have two and both work fine (different brands). We use them
all the time to remind people of the outcomes of meetings
(diagrams, todo lists, designs, etc). One is fourteen years old
and needs the "darker" button pressed. The other has a computer
interface to send the scan to your PC, neat but not often used.

Clifford Heath.

> I've always lusted after one of those huge white
> boards with the vector drawing capture. I have
> no experience with their *actual* usability, however.

Not sure about the purely electronic ones, but the
electro-photographic (?) ones that can print your doodlings are very
unreliable. Every time I've been in a conference room that has one,
I've been told it's out of order. And now I work for a company that
can afford such toys, I find that there are two in my building, on my
floor, and neither of them work either.

Gary Kato wrote:
>>All of that long winded non-sense to say that
>>I agree the best tools include the whiteboard
>>and markers ;-)
>>
> 
> 
> And don't forget a camera or a white board scanner to capture it!

The camera has never worked very well for me.

I usually sit down with the laptop and capture
to Visio, or more recently Open Office Draw.

I've always lusted after one of those huge white
boards with the vector drawing capture. I have
no experience with their *actual* usability, however.


-- 
Michael N. Moran           (h) 770 516 7918
5009 Old Field Ct.         (c) 678 521 5460
Kennesaw, GA, USA 30144    http://mnmoran.org

"... abstractions save us time working, but they don't
  save us time learning."
Joel Spolsky, The Law of Leaky Abstractions

The Beatles were wrong: 1 & 1 & 1 is 1

>All of that long winded non-sense to say that
>I agree the best tools include the whiteboard
>and markers ;-)
>

And don't forget a camera or a white board scanner to capture it!

Gems Bond wrote:
> Thanks for those wonderful and ingenious answers. Actually I heard
> about one tool called "Rhapsody" and found it's features to be
> interesting, although I didn't try that. It's not that I am against
> UML but I'd be glad if I can find a similar tool that isn't UML-based.
> Thanks again.

Although I'm *not* a big fan of graphical s/w engineering tools,
I have to ask you *why* the aversion to UML?

IMHO, one of the problems with UML is that the vendors have
tried to specify it in such a way that it can be compiled.
I also believe that the UML meta-model is such that a vendor
can use their own visual representations and still claim to
be UML compliant. The tool formerly known as Object-Time and
(last I heard/cared) now known as Rational Real-Time
(or something along those lines) is a good case-in-point.

Object-Time was based on the ROOM (I forget what that
stood/stands for) Method. I was impressed with the
methodology that I read the ROOM book.

However, Object-Time was way beyond my means
(and the means of my employer at the time.)

After the UML conference several years ago,
I developed the following motto:

"Tools are for fools."

Which, although a *bit* overly general,
neatly expresses my sentiment wrt the
graphical s/w engineering tools of the time.

These days, I use UML, and some of my own personal
graphical conventions for conveying analysis and
design ideas graphically.

Such models will never compile, but they work great
for capturing and describing both architectural
issues (encountered during analysis), and both
behavioral and structural ideas during design phases.

My favorite graphics are the UML state machine
descriptions, and of course class diagrams.

I also use circles, arrows, and a few other graphics,
(both solid and dashed line variants), to convey
ojects such as threads, signals, interrupts, and
inter-thread communications objects.

All of that long winded non-sense to say that
I agree the best tools include the whiteboard
and markers ;-)

-- 
Michael N. Moran           (h) 770 516 7918
5009 Old Field Ct.         (c) 678 521 5460
Kennesaw, GA, USA 30144    http://mnmoran.org

"... abstractions save us time working, but they don't
   save us time learning."
Joel Spolsky, The Law of Leaky Abstractions

The Beatles were wrong: 1 & 1 & 1 is 1

In article <b5e72de9.0407310011.f80e9d5@posting.google.com>, Gems Bond
<skv4@yahoo.com> writes
>Pete Fenelon <pete@fenelon.com> wrote in message news:<k3taec.muk.ln@fenelon.com
>>...
>> Vcc Ground <vccground@yahoo.co.in> wrote:
>> > Hello
>> > Can anybody suggest some "free" embedded software engineering tools? I
>> > am looking for tools that help in the design and documentation of
>> > embedded software and that are "not" UML-based.
>> > Thank you
>> 
>> I find that a whiteboard and some coloured marker pens are useful, as is
>> a large supply of coffee and a product manager who's willing to listen.
>> 
>> pete
>
>Hi
>Thanks for those wonderful and ingenious answers. Actually I heard
>about one tool called "Rhapsody" and found it's features to be
>interesting, although I didn't try that. It's not that I am against
>UML but I'd be glad if I can find a similar tool that isn't UML-based.
>Thanks again.


That is a VERY good tool but it depends on your target. 

For small systems using C I think there are better (lighter) tools
available.  C can be used as OB or Object Based and i-Logix can support
this as opposed to full OO. However, call me a ludite, I still prefer
for use a structured methodology and modular techniques for C with small
MCU



 
/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\
\/\/\/\/\ Chris Hills  Staffs  England    /\/\/\/\/\
/\/\/ chris@phaedsys.org       www.phaedsys.org \/\/
\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/

Pete Fenelon <pete@fenelon.com> wrote in message news:<k3taec.muk.ln@fenelon.com>...
> Vcc Ground <vccground@yahoo.co.in> wrote:
> > Hello
> > Can anybody suggest some "free" embedded software engineering tools? I
> > am looking for tools that help in the design and documentation of
> > embedded software and that are "not" UML-based.
> > Thank you
> 
> I find that a whiteboard and some coloured marker pens are useful, as is
> a large supply of coffee and a product manager who's willing to listen.
> 
> pete

Hi
Thanks for those wonderful and ingenious answers. Actually I heard
about one tool called "Rhapsody" and found it's features to be
interesting, although I didn't try that. It's not that I am against
UML but I'd be glad if I can find a similar tool that isn't UML-based.
Thanks again.

Vcc Ground <vccground@yahoo.co.in> wrote:
> Hello
> Can anybody suggest some "free" embedded software engineering tools? I
> am looking for tools that help in the design and documentation of
> embedded software and that are "not" UML-based.
> Thank you

I find that a whiteboard and some coloured marker pens are useful, as is
a large supply of coffee and a product manager who's willing to listen.

pete
-- 
pete@fenelon.com "there's no room for enigmas in built-up areas"