Murray R. Van Luyn. wrote:
> "David Brown" <david.brown@hesbynett.removethisbit.no> wrote in message 
> news:cf-dnc_nMfetiavWnZ2dnUVZ7oSdnZ2d@lyse.net...
>> Murray R. Van Luyn wrote:
>>> "Cesar Rabak" <csrabak@bol.com.br> wrote in message 
>>> news:hh3uct$4j1$1@news.eternal-september.org...
>>>> Murray R. Van Luyn escreveu:
>>>>> "David Brown" <david.brown@hesbynett.removethisbit.no> wrote in message 
>>>>> news:LcSdnfd4yZ6K07jWnZ2dnUVZ8i-dnZ2d@lyse.net...
>>>>>> don wrote:
>>>>>>> Murray R. Van Luyn wrote:
>>>>>>>> A news bulletin concerning website changes has been freshly posted 
>>>>>>>> on my 8052 microcontroller HomePage at:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> http://members.iinet.net.au/~vanluynm/
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Get around to taking a last look at the site in the next 1-month if 
>>>>>>>> you can, as it will comprehensively vanish at the end of that 
>>>>>>>> period.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>>>> Murray R. Van Luyn.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> What did China do to piss you off this bad ??
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> don
>>>>>> Perhaps more to the point, why are you (the OP - not Don) so angry at 
>>>>>> people for downloading things from your website without paying?  You 
>>>>>> offer them for free - payment is clearly optional.  You give no 
>>>>>> indication about licenses or conditions on anything (perhaps there is 
>>>>>> information after downloading, but that's too late).  When you provide 
>>>>>> downloads on a website, there are three choices - you can provide 
>>>>>> things entirely for free, you can charge for them, or you provide them 
>>>>>> for free and ask for donations.  But if you take this third road, you 
>>>>>> don't get to moan at people and call them "malevolent copyright 
>>>>>> violators".
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I also think it's a bit unreasonable to complain so violently about 
>>>>>> people downloading "your" stuff for free, when some of the things you 
>>>>>> want to charge for are other peoples' work that /they/ have given out 
>>>>>> for free. Adam Dunkels asks nothing for the use of his uIP software in 
>>>>>> any context - people can freely modify it and use it in commercial and 
>>>>>> non-commercial systems.  And yet you want to charge people to use 
>>>>>> /his/ code.  It is certainly /legal/ to charge people for his code - 
>>>>>> that's allowed by Adam's choice of licence.  But it makes it hard for 
>>>>>> people to treat your moral indignation seriously.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I can well understand you want to make a little bit of money on the 
>>>>>> site to cover your costs, and that you want to be able to offer free 
>>>>>> or low cost information and software to people.  But this isn't the 
>>>>>> way to do it - and insulting your visitors is the fastest way to lose 
>>>>>> them.
>>>>> Hi David,
>>>>>
>>>>> So, what's your background, David? What interests in the 
>>>>> microcontroller field do you have? I found your perspective a little 
>>>>> unexpected, and I'm very interested for you to help me please 
>>>>> understand where it's coming from?
>>>>>
>>>>> Regards,
>>>> Murray,
>>>>
>>>> Having read the all thread, I would like you consider some additional 
>>>> thoughts.
>>>>
>>>> Your last post seems to be produced by a sort of automaton of the famous 
>>>> "Elisa" AI demo programs.
>>>>
>>>> If one gets this impression pass, then another aspect surfaces: your 
>>>> reply sugar coated with a polite writing seems to be a disguised 
>>>> personal attack.
>>>>
>>>> Why is David's background or interests on the field matters w.r.t. his 
>>>> post?
>>>>
>>>> OTOH, what do you mean with "perspective a little unexpected"?
>>>>
>>>> -- 
>>>> Cesar Rabak
>>>> GNU/Linux User 52247.
>>>> Get counted: http://counter.li.org/
>>> You seem to be troubled by my post, Cesar. Please tell me how we can work 
>>> together to find a solution?
>>>
>> I can see what Cesar means about ELIZA!
>> <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ELIZA>
>>
>> And don't worry, /I/ don't see anything here as a personal attack, 
>> disguised or otherwise.
>>
>>> Seriously, no personal attacks intended, Cesar. David has raised some 
>>> very worthwhile points which he is aware have given me cause to think. I 
>>> thank him for his important contribution, regardless of how expected, or 
>>> otherwise, I may have found it.
>>>
>>> David appears to write from a position of great authority in addressing 
>>> my many apparent failures, Cesar. I had merely invited him to qualify his 
>>> perspective a little, before I made any decision on whether to address 
>>> the more though-provoking elements of his discussion.
>>>
>> As Cesar says, my background or interests are not relevant to the 
>> discussion.  I made my comments for your benefit, and for others in the 
>> group here to agree with, disagree with, or expand if they want.  I'm 
>> happy to talk more in this thread if you want to discuss the actual 
>> topic - I'm not here for self-promotion.  The thread is not about me, or 
>> even about /you/ - it's about your website, and your post berating people 
>> for downloading the software you make freely available.
>>
> 
> Okay, so you haven't the slightest positive contribution of your own to 
> report. I wholly expected that.
> 
> Good day, sir. 
> 

Are you sure you have kept track of who has posted what in this thread? 
  If you are trying to have a real discussion, or to promote support for 
your website, I am not sure this is the best tactic!

larwe escreveu:
> On Dec 26, 7:01 pm, Cesar Rabak <csra...@bol.com.br> wrote:
> 
>> [1] Just for the yucks, did you it by hand or used Emacs ;-D
> 
> Oh, by hand. But you see, I have on the shelf right in front of my
> eyes if I look up, the TRS-80 edition of "MORE BASIC COMPUTER
> GAMES"  (David Ahl, Creative Computing 1980), which has an Eliza
> program on p.60. I remember translating that version to the VIC-20 in
> 1985 or thereabouts (from an older edition of the same book).
> 

I see!  TRS-80s never got popular in this corner of World.

> And I am working right now on an AI engine using Neuroph, the test
> cases of which look very much like Eliza sessions.

Cool!

> 
> Aah, Eliza isn't truly therapeutic unless it's run on a REAL MAN'S
> paper tty.

Well, you can cut a little of this nostalgia with a bit of sound effects 
using your computers speakers, can't you? :-D

Regards,

-- 
Cesar Rabak
GNU/Linux User 52247.
Get counted: http://counter.li.org/

On Dec 26, 7:01=A0pm, Cesar Rabak <csra...@bol.com.br> wrote:

> [1] Just for the yucks, did you it by hand or used Emacs ;-D

Oh, by hand. But you see, I have on the shelf right in front of my
eyes if I look up, the TRS-80 edition of "MORE BASIC COMPUTER
GAMES"  (David Ahl, Creative Computing 1980), which has an Eliza
program on p.60. I remember translating that version to the VIC-20 in
1985 or thereabouts (from an older edition of the same book).

And I am working right now on an AI engine using Neuroph, the test
cases of which look very much like Eliza sessions.

Aah, Eliza isn't truly therapeutic unless it's run on a REAL MAN'S
paper tty.

Murray R. Van Luyn wrote:
> A news bulletin concerning website changes has been freshly posted on my 
> 8052 microcontroller HomePage at:
> 
> http://members.iinet.net.au/~vanluynm/
> 
> Get around to taking a last look at the site in the next 1-month if you can, 
> as it will comprehensively vanish at the end of that period.
> 
> Regards,
> Murray R. Van Luyn. 
> 
> 

It will still be in the archives though.

Cheers

ian

larwe escreveu:
> On Dec 26, 1:23 pm, John Devereux <j...@devereux.me.uk> wrote:
> 
>> It is you that have made no "positive contribution" to the thread, you
>> have not actually addressed any of the points David made. (Hence the
>> Eliza reference).
> 
> HMM. THAT'S INTERESTING. CAN YOU TELL ME MORE ABOUT ADDRESSED ANY OF
> THE POINTS DAVID MADE?
> 
> ]*

ROTFL&#4294967295;

-- 
Cesar Rabak
GNU/Linux User 52247.
Get counted: http://counter.li.org/

[1] Just for the yucks, did you it by hand or used Emacs ;-D

larwe <zwsdotcom@gmail.com> writes:

> On Dec 26, 1:23&nbsp;pm, John Devereux <j...@devereux.me.uk> wrote:
>
>> It is you that have made no "positive contribution" to the thread, you
>> have not actually addressed any of the points David made. (Hence the
>> Eliza reference).
>
> HMM. THAT'S INTERESTING. CAN YOU TELL ME MORE ABOUT ADDRESSED ANY OF
> THE POINTS DAVID MADE?
>
> ]*

 :)


-- 

John Devereux

On Dec 26, 1:23=A0pm, John Devereux <j...@devereux.me.uk> wrote:

> It is you that have made no "positive contribution" to the thread, you
> have not actually addressed any of the points David made. (Hence the
> Eliza reference).

HMM. THAT'S INTERESTING. CAN YOU TELL ME MORE ABOUT ADDRESSED ANY OF
THE POINTS DAVID MADE?

]*

"Murray R. Van Luyn." <valid@email.address> writes:

> "David Brown" <david.brown@hesbynett.removethisbit.no> wrote in message 
> news:cf-dnc_nMfetiavWnZ2dnUVZ7oSdnZ2d@lyse.net...
>> Murray R. Van Luyn wrote:
>>> "Cesar Rabak" <csrabak@bol.com.br> wrote in message 
>>> news:hh3uct$4j1$1@news.eternal-september.org...
>>>> Murray R. Van Luyn escreveu:
>>>>> "David Brown" <david.brown@hesbynett.removethisbit.no> wrote in message 
>>>>> news:LcSdnfd4yZ6K07jWnZ2dnUVZ8i-dnZ2d@lyse.net...
>>>>>> don wrote:
>>>>>>> Murray R. Van Luyn wrote:
>>>>>>>> A news bulletin concerning website changes has been freshly posted 
>>>>>>>> on my 8052 microcontroller HomePage at:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> http://members.iinet.net.au/~vanluynm/
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Get around to taking a last look at the site in the next 1-month if 
>>>>>>>> you can, as it will comprehensively vanish at the end of that 
>>>>>>>> period.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>>>> Murray R. Van Luyn.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> What did China do to piss you off this bad ??
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> don
>>>>>> Perhaps more to the point, why are you (the OP - not Don) so angry at 
>>>>>> people for downloading things from your website without paying?  You 
>>>>>> offer them for free - payment is clearly optional.  You give no 
>>>>>> indication about licenses or conditions on anything (perhaps there is 
>>>>>> information after downloading, but that's too late).  When you provide 
>>>>>> downloads on a website, there are three choices - you can provide 
>>>>>> things entirely for free, you can charge for them, or you provide them 
>>>>>> for free and ask for donations.  But if you take this third road, you 
>>>>>> don't get to moan at people and call them "malevolent copyright 
>>>>>> violators".
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I also think it's a bit unreasonable to complain so violently about 
>>>>>> people downloading "your" stuff for free, when some of the things you 
>>>>>> want to charge for are other peoples' work that /they/ have given out 
>>>>>> for free. Adam Dunkels asks nothing for the use of his uIP software in 
>>>>>> any context - people can freely modify it and use it in commercial and 
>>>>>> non-commercial systems.  And yet you want to charge people to use 
>>>>>> /his/ code.  It is certainly /legal/ to charge people for his code - 
>>>>>> that's allowed by Adam's choice of licence.  But it makes it hard for 
>>>>>> people to treat your moral indignation seriously.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I can well understand you want to make a little bit of money on the 
>>>>>> site to cover your costs, and that you want to be able to offer free 
>>>>>> or low cost information and software to people.  But this isn't the 
>>>>>> way to do it - and insulting your visitors is the fastest way to lose 
>>>>>> them.
>>>>> Hi David,
>>>>>
>>>>> So, what's your background, David? What interests in the 
>>>>> microcontroller field do you have? I found your perspective a little 
>>>>> unexpected, and I'm very interested for you to help me please 
>>>>> understand where it's coming from?
>>>>>
>>>>> Regards,
>>>> Murray,
>>>>
>>>> Having read the all thread, I would like you consider some additional 
>>>> thoughts.
>>>>
>>>> Your last post seems to be produced by a sort of automaton of the famous 
>>>> "Elisa" AI demo programs.
>>>>
>>>> If one gets this impression pass, then another aspect surfaces: your 
>>>> reply sugar coated with a polite writing seems to be a disguised 
>>>> personal attack.
>>>>
>>>> Why is David's background or interests on the field matters w.r.t. his 
>>>> post?
>>>>
>>>> OTOH, what do you mean with "perspective a little unexpected"?
>>>>
>>>> -- 
>>>> Cesar Rabak
>>>> GNU/Linux User 52247.
>>>> Get counted: http://counter.li.org/
>>>
>>> You seem to be troubled by my post, Cesar. Please tell me how we can work 
>>> together to find a solution?
>>>
>>
>> I can see what Cesar means about ELIZA!
>> <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ELIZA>
>>
>> And don't worry, /I/ don't see anything here as a personal attack, 
>> disguised or otherwise.
>>
>>> Seriously, no personal attacks intended, Cesar. David has raised some 
>>> very worthwhile points which he is aware have given me cause to think. I 
>>> thank him for his important contribution, regardless of how expected, or 
>>> otherwise, I may have found it.
>>>
>>> David appears to write from a position of great authority in addressing 
>>> my many apparent failures, Cesar. I had merely invited him to qualify his 
>>> perspective a little, before I made any decision on whether to address 
>>> the more though-provoking elements of his discussion.
>>>
>>
>> As Cesar says, my background or interests are not relevant to the 
>> discussion.  I made my comments for your benefit, and for others in the 
>> group here to agree with, disagree with, or expand if they want.  I'm 
>> happy to talk more in this thread if you want to discuss the actual 
>> topic - I'm not here for self-promotion.  The thread is not about me, or 
>> even about /you/ - it's about your website, and your post berating people 
>> for downloading the software you make freely available.
>>
>
> Okay, so you haven't the slightest positive contribution of your own to 
> report. I wholly expected that.

Davids post was spot on. If Chris Hills agrees with him, I suspect
everyone else will! :)

It is you that have made no "positive contribution" to the thread, you
have not actually addressed any of the points David made. (Hence the
Eliza reference).

-- 

John Devereux

In message <LcSdnfd4yZ6K07jWnZ2dnUVZ8i-dnZ2d@lyse.net>, David Brown
<david.brown@hesbynett.removethisbit.no> writes
>don wrote:
>> Murray R. Van Luyn wrote:
>>> A news bulletin concerning website changes has been freshly posted
>>>on  my 8052 microcontroller HomePage at:
>>>
>>> http://members.iinet.net.au/~vanluynm/
>>>
>>> Get around to taking a last look at the site in the next 1-month if
>>>you can, as it will comprehensively vanish at the end of that period.
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>> Murray R. Van Luyn.
>>>
>> What did China do to piss you off this bad ??
>>  don
>
>Perhaps more to the point, why are you (the OP - not Don) so angry at
>people for downloading things from your website without paying?  You
>offer them for free - payment is clearly optional.  You give no
>indication about licenses or conditions on anything (perhaps there is
>information after downloading, but that's too late).  When you provide
>downloads on a website, there are three choices - you can provide
>things entirely for free, you can charge for them, or you provide them
>for free and ask for donations.  But if you take this third road, you
>don't get to moan at people and call them "malevolent copyright
>violators".
>
>I also think it's a bit unreasonable to complain so violently about
>people downloading "your" stuff for free, when some of the things you
>want to charge for are other peoples' work that /they/ have given out
>for free.  Adam Dunkels asks nothing for the use of his uIP software in
>any context - people can freely modify it and use it in commercial and
>non-commercial systems.  And yet you want to charge people to use /his/
>code.  It is certainly /legal/ to charge people for his code - that's
>allowed by Adam's choice of licence.  But it makes it hard for people
>to treat your moral indignation seriously.
>
>I can well understand you want to make a little bit of money on the
>site to cover your costs, and that you want to be able to offer free or
>low cost information and software to people.  But this isn't the way to
>do it - and insulting your visitors is the fastest way to lose them.


I have to say I completely agree with David.

Also I can't see what your problem with China is. Why are the Chinese a
problem?

-- 
\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\
\/\/\/\/\ Chris Hills  Staffs  England     /\/\/\/\/
\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/

"David Brown" <david.brown@hesbynett.removethisbit.no> wrote in message 
news:cf-dnc_nMfetiavWnZ2dnUVZ7oSdnZ2d@lyse.net...
> Murray R. Van Luyn wrote:
>> "Cesar Rabak" <csrabak@bol.com.br> wrote in message 
>> news:hh3uct$4j1$1@news.eternal-september.org...
>>> Murray R. Van Luyn escreveu:
>>>> "David Brown" <david.brown@hesbynett.removethisbit.no> wrote in message 
>>>> news:LcSdnfd4yZ6K07jWnZ2dnUVZ8i-dnZ2d@lyse.net...
>>>>> don wrote:
>>>>>> Murray R. Van Luyn wrote:
>>>>>>> A news bulletin concerning website changes has been freshly posted 
>>>>>>> on my 8052 microcontroller HomePage at:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> http://members.iinet.net.au/~vanluynm/
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Get around to taking a last look at the site in the next 1-month if 
>>>>>>> you can, as it will comprehensively vanish at the end of that 
>>>>>>> period.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>>> Murray R. Van Luyn.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> What did China do to piss you off this bad ??
>>>>>>
>>>>>> don
>>>>> Perhaps more to the point, why are you (the OP - not Don) so angry at 
>>>>> people for downloading things from your website without paying?  You 
>>>>> offer them for free - payment is clearly optional.  You give no 
>>>>> indication about licenses or conditions on anything (perhaps there is 
>>>>> information after downloading, but that's too late).  When you provide 
>>>>> downloads on a website, there are three choices - you can provide 
>>>>> things entirely for free, you can charge for them, or you provide them 
>>>>> for free and ask for donations.  But if you take this third road, you 
>>>>> don't get to moan at people and call them "malevolent copyright 
>>>>> violators".
>>>>>
>>>>> I also think it's a bit unreasonable to complain so violently about 
>>>>> people downloading "your" stuff for free, when some of the things you 
>>>>> want to charge for are other peoples' work that /they/ have given out 
>>>>> for free. Adam Dunkels asks nothing for the use of his uIP software in 
>>>>> any context - people can freely modify it and use it in commercial and 
>>>>> non-commercial systems.  And yet you want to charge people to use 
>>>>> /his/ code.  It is certainly /legal/ to charge people for his code - 
>>>>> that's allowed by Adam's choice of licence.  But it makes it hard for 
>>>>> people to treat your moral indignation seriously.
>>>>>
>>>>> I can well understand you want to make a little bit of money on the 
>>>>> site to cover your costs, and that you want to be able to offer free 
>>>>> or low cost information and software to people.  But this isn't the 
>>>>> way to do it - and insulting your visitors is the fastest way to lose 
>>>>> them.
>>>> Hi David,
>>>>
>>>> So, what's your background, David? What interests in the 
>>>> microcontroller field do you have? I found your perspective a little 
>>>> unexpected, and I'm very interested for you to help me please 
>>>> understand where it's coming from?
>>>>
>>>> Regards,
>>> Murray,
>>>
>>> Having read the all thread, I would like you consider some additional 
>>> thoughts.
>>>
>>> Your last post seems to be produced by a sort of automaton of the famous 
>>> "Elisa" AI demo programs.
>>>
>>> If one gets this impression pass, then another aspect surfaces: your 
>>> reply sugar coated with a polite writing seems to be a disguised 
>>> personal attack.
>>>
>>> Why is David's background or interests on the field matters w.r.t. his 
>>> post?
>>>
>>> OTOH, what do you mean with "perspective a little unexpected"?
>>>
>>> -- 
>>> Cesar Rabak
>>> GNU/Linux User 52247.
>>> Get counted: http://counter.li.org/
>>
>> You seem to be troubled by my post, Cesar. Please tell me how we can work 
>> together to find a solution?
>>
>
> I can see what Cesar means about ELIZA!
> <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ELIZA>
>
> And don't worry, /I/ don't see anything here as a personal attack, 
> disguised or otherwise.
>
>> Seriously, no personal attacks intended, Cesar. David has raised some 
>> very worthwhile points which he is aware have given me cause to think. I 
>> thank him for his important contribution, regardless of how expected, or 
>> otherwise, I may have found it.
>>
>> David appears to write from a position of great authority in addressing 
>> my many apparent failures, Cesar. I had merely invited him to qualify his 
>> perspective a little, before I made any decision on whether to address 
>> the more though-provoking elements of his discussion.
>>
>
> As Cesar says, my background or interests are not relevant to the 
> discussion.  I made my comments for your benefit, and for others in the 
> group here to agree with, disagree with, or expand if they want.  I'm 
> happy to talk more in this thread if you want to discuss the actual 
> topic - I'm not here for self-promotion.  The thread is not about me, or 
> even about /you/ - it's about your website, and your post berating people 
> for downloading the software you make freely available.
>

Okay, so you haven't the slightest positive contribution of your own to 
report. I wholly expected that.

Good day, sir.