Posted by David Brown December 27, 20092009-12-27
Murray R. Van Luyn. wrote:
> "David Brown" <david.brown@hesbynett.removethisbit.no> wrote in message > news:cf-dnc_nMfetiavWnZ2dnUVZ7oSdnZ2d@lyse.net... >> Murray R. Van Luyn wrote: >>> "Cesar Rabak" <csrabak@bol.com.br> wrote in message >>> news:hh3uct$4j1$1@news.eternal-september.org... >>>> Murray R. Van Luyn escreveu: >>>>> "David Brown" <david.brown@hesbynett.removethisbit.no> wrote in message >>>>> news:LcSdnfd4yZ6K07jWnZ2dnUVZ8i-dnZ2d@lyse.net... >>>>>> don wrote: >>>>>>> Murray R. Van Luyn wrote: >>>>>>>> A news bulletin concerning website changes has been freshly posted >>>>>>>> on my 8052 microcontroller HomePage at: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> http://members.iinet.net.au/~vanluynm/ >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Get around to taking a last look at the site in the next 1-month if >>>>>>>> you can, as it will comprehensively vanish at the end of that >>>>>>>> period. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Regards, >>>>>>>> Murray R. Van Luyn. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> What did China do to piss you off this bad ?? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> don >>>>>> Perhaps more to the point, why are you (the OP - not Don) so angry at >>>>>> people for downloading things from your website without paying? You >>>>>> offer them for free - payment is clearly optional. You give no >>>>>> indication about licenses or conditions on anything (perhaps there is >>>>>> information after downloading, but that's too late). When you provide >>>>>> downloads on a website, there are three choices - you can provide >>>>>> things entirely for free, you can charge for them, or you provide them >>>>>> for free and ask for donations. But if you take this third road, you >>>>>> don't get to moan at people and call them "malevolent copyright >>>>>> violators". >>>>>> >>>>>> I also think it's a bit unreasonable to complain so violently about >>>>>> people downloading "your" stuff for free, when some of the things you >>>>>> want to charge for are other peoples' work that /they/ have given out >>>>>> for free. Adam Dunkels asks nothing for the use of his uIP software in >>>>>> any context - people can freely modify it and use it in commercial and >>>>>> non-commercial systems. And yet you want to charge people to use >>>>>> /his/ code. It is certainly /legal/ to charge people for his code - >>>>>> that's allowed by Adam's choice of licence. But it makes it hard for >>>>>> people to treat your moral indignation seriously. >>>>>> >>>>>> I can well understand you want to make a little bit of money on the >>>>>> site to cover your costs, and that you want to be able to offer free >>>>>> or low cost information and software to people. But this isn't the >>>>>> way to do it - and insulting your visitors is the fastest way to lose >>>>>> them. >>>>> Hi David, >>>>> >>>>> So, what's your background, David? What interests in the >>>>> microcontroller field do you have? I found your perspective a little >>>>> unexpected, and I'm very interested for you to help me please >>>>> understand where it's coming from? >>>>> >>>>> Regards, >>>> Murray, >>>> >>>> Having read the all thread, I would like you consider some additional >>>> thoughts. >>>> >>>> Your last post seems to be produced by a sort of automaton of the famous >>>> "Elisa" AI demo programs. >>>> >>>> If one gets this impression pass, then another aspect surfaces: your >>>> reply sugar coated with a polite writing seems to be a disguised >>>> personal attack. >>>> >>>> Why is David's background or interests on the field matters w.r.t. his >>>> post? >>>> >>>> OTOH, what do you mean with "perspective a little unexpected"? >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Cesar Rabak >>>> GNU/Linux User 52247. >>>> Get counted: http://counter.li.org/ >>> You seem to be troubled by my post, Cesar. Please tell me how we can work >>> together to find a solution? >>> >> I can see what Cesar means about ELIZA! >> <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ELIZA> >> >> And don't worry, /I/ don't see anything here as a personal attack, >> disguised or otherwise. >> >>> Seriously, no personal attacks intended, Cesar. David has raised some >>> very worthwhile points which he is aware have given me cause to think. I >>> thank him for his important contribution, regardless of how expected, or >>> otherwise, I may have found it. >>> >>> David appears to write from a position of great authority in addressing >>> my many apparent failures, Cesar. I had merely invited him to qualify his >>> perspective a little, before I made any decision on whether to address >>> the more though-provoking elements of his discussion. >>> >> As Cesar says, my background or interests are not relevant to the >> discussion. I made my comments for your benefit, and for others in the >> group here to agree with, disagree with, or expand if they want. I'm >> happy to talk more in this thread if you want to discuss the actual >> topic - I'm not here for self-promotion. The thread is not about me, or >> even about /you/ - it's about your website, and your post berating people >> for downloading the software you make freely available. >> > > Okay, so you haven't the slightest positive contribution of your own to > report. I wholly expected that. > > Good day, sir. >
Are you sure you have kept track of who has posted what in this thread? If you are trying to have a real discussion, or to promote support for your website, I am not sure this is the best tactic!
Posted by Cesar Rabak December 27, 20092009-12-27
larwe escreveu:
> On Dec 26, 7:01 pm, Cesar Rabak <csra...@bol.com.br> wrote: > >> [1] Just for the yucks, did you it by hand or used Emacs ;-D > > Oh, by hand. But you see, I have on the shelf right in front of my > eyes if I look up, the TRS-80 edition of "MORE BASIC COMPUTER > GAMES" (David Ahl, Creative Computing 1980), which has an Eliza > program on p.60. I remember translating that version to the VIC-20 in > 1985 or thereabouts (from an older edition of the same book). >
I see! TRS-80s never got popular in this corner of World.
> And I am working right now on an AI engine using Neuroph, the test > cases of which look very much like Eliza sessions.
Cool!
> > Aah, Eliza isn't truly therapeutic unless it's run on a REAL MAN'S > paper tty.
Well, you can cut a little of this nostalgia with a bit of sound effects using your computers speakers, can't you? :-D Regards, -- Cesar Rabak GNU/Linux User 52247. Get counted: http://counter.li.org/
Posted by larwe December 26, 20092009-12-26
On Dec 26, 7:01=A0pm, Cesar Rabak <csra...@bol.com.br> wrote:

> [1] Just for the yucks, did you it by hand or used Emacs ;-D
Oh, by hand. But you see, I have on the shelf right in front of my eyes if I look up, the TRS-80 edition of "MORE BASIC COMPUTER GAMES" (David Ahl, Creative Computing 1980), which has an Eliza program on p.60. I remember translating that version to the VIC-20 in 1985 or thereabouts (from an older edition of the same book). And I am working right now on an AI engine using Neuroph, the test cases of which look very much like Eliza sessions. Aah, Eliza isn't truly therapeutic unless it's run on a REAL MAN'S paper tty.
Posted by Ian Bell December 26, 20092009-12-26
Murray R. Van Luyn wrote:
> A news bulletin concerning website changes has been freshly posted on my > 8052 microcontroller HomePage at: > > http://members.iinet.net.au/~vanluynm/ > > Get around to taking a last look at the site in the next 1-month if you can, > as it will comprehensively vanish at the end of that period. > > Regards, > Murray R. Van Luyn. > >
It will still be in the archives though. Cheers ian
Posted by Cesar Rabak December 26, 20092009-12-26
larwe escreveu:
> On Dec 26, 1:23 pm, John Devereux <j...@devereux.me.uk> wrote: > >> It is you that have made no "positive contribution" to the thread, you >> have not actually addressed any of the points David made. (Hence the >> Eliza reference). > > HMM. THAT'S INTERESTING. CAN YOU TELL ME MORE ABOUT ADDRESSED ANY OF > THE POINTS DAVID MADE? > > ]*
ROTFL&#2013266105; -- Cesar Rabak GNU/Linux User 52247. Get counted: http://counter.li.org/ [1] Just for the yucks, did you it by hand or used Emacs ;-D
Posted by John Devereux December 26, 20092009-12-26
larwe <zwsdotcom@gmail.com> writes:

> On Dec 26, 1:23&nbsp;pm, John Devereux <j...@devereux.me.uk> wrote: > >> It is you that have made no "positive contribution" to the thread, you >> have not actually addressed any of the points David made. (Hence the >> Eliza reference). > > HMM. THAT'S INTERESTING. CAN YOU TELL ME MORE ABOUT ADDRESSED ANY OF > THE POINTS DAVID MADE? > > ]*
:) -- John Devereux
Posted by larwe December 26, 20092009-12-26
On Dec 26, 1:23=A0pm, John Devereux <j...@devereux.me.uk> wrote:

> It is you that have made no "positive contribution" to the thread, you > have not actually addressed any of the points David made. (Hence the > Eliza reference).
HMM. THAT'S INTERESTING. CAN YOU TELL ME MORE ABOUT ADDRESSED ANY OF THE POINTS DAVID MADE? ]*
Posted by John Devereux December 26, 20092009-12-26
"Murray R. Van Luyn." <valid@email.address> writes:

> "David Brown" <david.brown@hesbynett.removethisbit.no> wrote in message > news:cf-dnc_nMfetiavWnZ2dnUVZ7oSdnZ2d@lyse.net... >> Murray R. Van Luyn wrote: >>> "Cesar Rabak" <csrabak@bol.com.br> wrote in message >>> news:hh3uct$4j1$1@news.eternal-september.org... >>>> Murray R. Van Luyn escreveu: >>>>> "David Brown" <david.brown@hesbynett.removethisbit.no> wrote in message >>>>> news:LcSdnfd4yZ6K07jWnZ2dnUVZ8i-dnZ2d@lyse.net... >>>>>> don wrote: >>>>>>> Murray R. Van Luyn wrote: >>>>>>>> A news bulletin concerning website changes has been freshly posted >>>>>>>> on my 8052 microcontroller HomePage at: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> http://members.iinet.net.au/~vanluynm/ >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Get around to taking a last look at the site in the next 1-month if >>>>>>>> you can, as it will comprehensively vanish at the end of that >>>>>>>> period. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Regards, >>>>>>>> Murray R. Van Luyn. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> What did China do to piss you off this bad ?? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> don >>>>>> Perhaps more to the point, why are you (the OP - not Don) so angry at >>>>>> people for downloading things from your website without paying? You >>>>>> offer them for free - payment is clearly optional. You give no >>>>>> indication about licenses or conditions on anything (perhaps there is >>>>>> information after downloading, but that's too late). When you provide >>>>>> downloads on a website, there are three choices - you can provide >>>>>> things entirely for free, you can charge for them, or you provide them >>>>>> for free and ask for donations. But if you take this third road, you >>>>>> don't get to moan at people and call them "malevolent copyright >>>>>> violators". >>>>>> >>>>>> I also think it's a bit unreasonable to complain so violently about >>>>>> people downloading "your" stuff for free, when some of the things you >>>>>> want to charge for are other peoples' work that /they/ have given out >>>>>> for free. Adam Dunkels asks nothing for the use of his uIP software in >>>>>> any context - people can freely modify it and use it in commercial and >>>>>> non-commercial systems. And yet you want to charge people to use >>>>>> /his/ code. It is certainly /legal/ to charge people for his code - >>>>>> that's allowed by Adam's choice of licence. But it makes it hard for >>>>>> people to treat your moral indignation seriously. >>>>>> >>>>>> I can well understand you want to make a little bit of money on the >>>>>> site to cover your costs, and that you want to be able to offer free >>>>>> or low cost information and software to people. But this isn't the >>>>>> way to do it - and insulting your visitors is the fastest way to lose >>>>>> them. >>>>> Hi David, >>>>> >>>>> So, what's your background, David? What interests in the >>>>> microcontroller field do you have? I found your perspective a little >>>>> unexpected, and I'm very interested for you to help me please >>>>> understand where it's coming from? >>>>> >>>>> Regards, >>>> Murray, >>>> >>>> Having read the all thread, I would like you consider some additional >>>> thoughts. >>>> >>>> Your last post seems to be produced by a sort of automaton of the famous >>>> "Elisa" AI demo programs. >>>> >>>> If one gets this impression pass, then another aspect surfaces: your >>>> reply sugar coated with a polite writing seems to be a disguised >>>> personal attack. >>>> >>>> Why is David's background or interests on the field matters w.r.t. his >>>> post? >>>> >>>> OTOH, what do you mean with "perspective a little unexpected"? >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Cesar Rabak >>>> GNU/Linux User 52247. >>>> Get counted: http://counter.li.org/ >>> >>> You seem to be troubled by my post, Cesar. Please tell me how we can work >>> together to find a solution? >>> >> >> I can see what Cesar means about ELIZA! >> <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ELIZA> >> >> And don't worry, /I/ don't see anything here as a personal attack, >> disguised or otherwise. >> >>> Seriously, no personal attacks intended, Cesar. David has raised some >>> very worthwhile points which he is aware have given me cause to think. I >>> thank him for his important contribution, regardless of how expected, or >>> otherwise, I may have found it. >>> >>> David appears to write from a position of great authority in addressing >>> my many apparent failures, Cesar. I had merely invited him to qualify his >>> perspective a little, before I made any decision on whether to address >>> the more though-provoking elements of his discussion. >>> >> >> As Cesar says, my background or interests are not relevant to the >> discussion. I made my comments for your benefit, and for others in the >> group here to agree with, disagree with, or expand if they want. I'm >> happy to talk more in this thread if you want to discuss the actual >> topic - I'm not here for self-promotion. The thread is not about me, or >> even about /you/ - it's about your website, and your post berating people >> for downloading the software you make freely available. >> > > Okay, so you haven't the slightest positive contribution of your own to > report. I wholly expected that.
Davids post was spot on. If Chris Hills agrees with him, I suspect everyone else will! :) It is you that have made no "positive contribution" to the thread, you have not actually addressed any of the points David made. (Hence the Eliza reference). -- John Devereux
Posted by Chris H December 26, 20092009-12-26
In message <LcSdnfd4yZ6K07jWnZ2dnUVZ8i-dnZ2d@lyse.net>, David Brown
<david.brown@hesbynett.removethisbit.no> writes
>don wrote: >> Murray R. Van Luyn wrote: >>> A news bulletin concerning website changes has been freshly posted >>>on my 8052 microcontroller HomePage at: >>> >>> http://members.iinet.net.au/~vanluynm/ >>> >>> Get around to taking a last look at the site in the next 1-month if >>>you can, as it will comprehensively vanish at the end of that period. >>> >>> Regards, >>> Murray R. Van Luyn. >>> >> What did China do to piss you off this bad ?? >> don > >Perhaps more to the point, why are you (the OP - not Don) so angry at >people for downloading things from your website without paying? You >offer them for free - payment is clearly optional. You give no >indication about licenses or conditions on anything (perhaps there is >information after downloading, but that's too late). When you provide >downloads on a website, there are three choices - you can provide >things entirely for free, you can charge for them, or you provide them >for free and ask for donations. But if you take this third road, you >don't get to moan at people and call them "malevolent copyright >violators". > >I also think it's a bit unreasonable to complain so violently about >people downloading "your" stuff for free, when some of the things you >want to charge for are other peoples' work that /they/ have given out >for free. Adam Dunkels asks nothing for the use of his uIP software in >any context - people can freely modify it and use it in commercial and >non-commercial systems. And yet you want to charge people to use /his/ >code. It is certainly /legal/ to charge people for his code - that's >allowed by Adam's choice of licence. But it makes it hard for people >to treat your moral indignation seriously. > >I can well understand you want to make a little bit of money on the >site to cover your costs, and that you want to be able to offer free or >low cost information and software to people. But this isn't the way to >do it - and insulting your visitors is the fastest way to lose them.
I have to say I completely agree with David. Also I can't see what your problem with China is. Why are the Chinese a problem? -- \/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\ \/\/\/\/\ Chris Hills Staffs England /\/\/\/\/ \/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/
Posted by Murray R. Van Luyn. December 26, 20092009-12-26
"David Brown" <david.brown@hesbynett.removethisbit.no> wrote in message 
news:cf-dnc_nMfetiavWnZ2dnUVZ7oSdnZ2d@lyse.net...
> Murray R. Van Luyn wrote: >> "Cesar Rabak" <csrabak@bol.com.br> wrote in message >> news:hh3uct$4j1$1@news.eternal-september.org... >>> Murray R. Van Luyn escreveu: >>>> "David Brown" <david.brown@hesbynett.removethisbit.no> wrote in message >>>> news:LcSdnfd4yZ6K07jWnZ2dnUVZ8i-dnZ2d@lyse.net... >>>>> don wrote: >>>>>> Murray R. Van Luyn wrote: >>>>>>> A news bulletin concerning website changes has been freshly posted >>>>>>> on my 8052 microcontroller HomePage at: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> http://members.iinet.net.au/~vanluynm/ >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Get around to taking a last look at the site in the next 1-month if >>>>>>> you can, as it will comprehensively vanish at the end of that >>>>>>> period. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Regards, >>>>>>> Murray R. Van Luyn. >>>>>>> >>>>>> What did China do to piss you off this bad ?? >>>>>> >>>>>> don >>>>> Perhaps more to the point, why are you (the OP - not Don) so angry at >>>>> people for downloading things from your website without paying? You >>>>> offer them for free - payment is clearly optional. You give no >>>>> indication about licenses or conditions on anything (perhaps there is >>>>> information after downloading, but that's too late). When you provide >>>>> downloads on a website, there are three choices - you can provide >>>>> things entirely for free, you can charge for them, or you provide them >>>>> for free and ask for donations. But if you take this third road, you >>>>> don't get to moan at people and call them "malevolent copyright >>>>> violators". >>>>> >>>>> I also think it's a bit unreasonable to complain so violently about >>>>> people downloading "your" stuff for free, when some of the things you >>>>> want to charge for are other peoples' work that /they/ have given out >>>>> for free. Adam Dunkels asks nothing for the use of his uIP software in >>>>> any context - people can freely modify it and use it in commercial and >>>>> non-commercial systems. And yet you want to charge people to use >>>>> /his/ code. It is certainly /legal/ to charge people for his code - >>>>> that's allowed by Adam's choice of licence. But it makes it hard for >>>>> people to treat your moral indignation seriously. >>>>> >>>>> I can well understand you want to make a little bit of money on the >>>>> site to cover your costs, and that you want to be able to offer free >>>>> or low cost information and software to people. But this isn't the >>>>> way to do it - and insulting your visitors is the fastest way to lose >>>>> them. >>>> Hi David, >>>> >>>> So, what's your background, David? What interests in the >>>> microcontroller field do you have? I found your perspective a little >>>> unexpected, and I'm very interested for you to help me please >>>> understand where it's coming from? >>>> >>>> Regards, >>> Murray, >>> >>> Having read the all thread, I would like you consider some additional >>> thoughts. >>> >>> Your last post seems to be produced by a sort of automaton of the famous >>> "Elisa" AI demo programs. >>> >>> If one gets this impression pass, then another aspect surfaces: your >>> reply sugar coated with a polite writing seems to be a disguised >>> personal attack. >>> >>> Why is David's background or interests on the field matters w.r.t. his >>> post? >>> >>> OTOH, what do you mean with "perspective a little unexpected"? >>> >>> -- >>> Cesar Rabak >>> GNU/Linux User 52247. >>> Get counted: http://counter.li.org/ >> >> You seem to be troubled by my post, Cesar. Please tell me how we can work >> together to find a solution? >> > > I can see what Cesar means about ELIZA! > <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ELIZA> > > And don't worry, /I/ don't see anything here as a personal attack, > disguised or otherwise. > >> Seriously, no personal attacks intended, Cesar. David has raised some >> very worthwhile points which he is aware have given me cause to think. I >> thank him for his important contribution, regardless of how expected, or >> otherwise, I may have found it. >> >> David appears to write from a position of great authority in addressing >> my many apparent failures, Cesar. I had merely invited him to qualify his >> perspective a little, before I made any decision on whether to address >> the more though-provoking elements of his discussion. >> > > As Cesar says, my background or interests are not relevant to the > discussion. I made my comments for your benefit, and for others in the > group here to agree with, disagree with, or expand if they want. I'm > happy to talk more in this thread if you want to discuss the actual > topic - I'm not here for self-promotion. The thread is not about me, or > even about /you/ - it's about your website, and your post berating people > for downloading the software you make freely available. >
Okay, so you haven't the slightest positive contribution of your own to report. I wholly expected that. Good day, sir.