On Mar 8, 5:39=A0am, hamilton <hamil...@nothere.com> wrote:
> I have found the SiLabs to be expensive for parts they have.
>
> The speed is nice, but not enough to not use more modern CPUs.
>
> Two companies I have worked for in the last few years used SiLabs parts.


yes, because they work well.

> When I asked why they still used 8051 architecture they said they did
> not want to spend the time learning anything new.
>
> I found that reasoning to be very short sighted.

 hehe - Now that _is_ bizarre logic. I trust you are NOT
writing that on an X86 PC!!!! It would be very short-sighted of you,
to still be using that core.
(or Arm, as that too, is an old lineage!)

> But, to be adding new 8051 chips on the market must mean there is still
> need for it.

Look at the Cypress PSoC3.

 Of course. The 80C51 is still the most-shipped core in the world.
There are truckloads of Asian variants (license free, and good
tools).
 Only when your project goes above a certain size, does it make sense
to look at something else.

-jg

Antti wrote:

>> WOW, I started with the 8031 in 1982 !!
>>
>> I guess you can teach an old dog new tricks :-D.
>>
>> Thanks
>>
>> hamilton
> 
> oh there are plenty of very modern MCU's based on 8051 core
> 
> Antti

This is true.

I have found the SiLabs to be expensive for parts they have.

The speed is nice, but not enough to not use more modern CPUs.

Two companies I have worked for in the last few years used SiLabs parts.

When I asked why they still used 8051 architecture they said they did 
not want to spend the time learning anything new.

I found that reasoning to be very short sighted.

But, to be adding new 8051 chips on the market must mean there is still 
need for it.

Maybe I'll put 8051 back on my resume and see what happens. :-)

hamilton

On Mar 7, 3:04=A0am, hamilton <hamil...@nothere.com> wrote:
> -jg wrote:
> > On Mar 7, 12:33 pm, hamilton <hamil...@nothere.com> wrote:
> >>>>> there was free give away of XC822 based development boards on embed=
ded
> >> I must have missed something, What is a XC822 ?
>
> > A new 80C51 core, Industrial/Automotive small package
> > TSSOP16 and up, from Infineon.
>
> WOW, I started with the 8031 in 1982 !!
>
> I guess you can teach an old dog new tricks :-D.
>
> Thanks
>
> hamilton

oh there are plenty of very modern MCU's based on 8051 core

Antti

-jg wrote:
> On Mar 7, 12:33 pm, hamilton <hamil...@nothere.com> wrote:
>>>>> there was free give away of XC822 based development boards on embedded
>> I must have missed something, What is a XC822 ?
> 
> A new 80C51 core, Industrial/Automotive small package
> TSSOP16 and up, from Infineon.

WOW, I started with the 8031 in 1982 !!

I guess you can teach an old dog new tricks :-D.

Thanks

hamilton

On Mar 7, 12:33=A0pm, hamilton <hamil...@nothere.com> wrote:
> >>> there was free give away of XC822 based development boards on embedde=
d
>
> I must have missed something, What is a XC822 ?

A new 80C51 core, Industrial/Automotive small package
TSSOP16 and up, from Infineon.

XC82x data is rather well hidden on the Infineon website, more info is
also in the 133MB Tools download.

http://de.sitestat.com/infineon/infineon/s?infineon.Products.Microcontrolle=
rs.8-Bit.XC800_I-Family__Industrial___Multimarket_.XC82x-Series__Industrial=
___Multimarket_.DOCUMENTS.XC822_XC824_PB.pdf&ns_type=3Dpdf&ns_url=3Dhttp://=
www.infineon.com/dgdl/XC822_XC824_PB.pdf?folderId=3Ddb3a304412b407950112b40=
c497b0af6&fileId=3Ddb3a304326dfb13001270adc825b3375

http://de.sitestat.com/infineon/infineon/s?infineon.Products.Microcontrolle=
rs.8-Bit.XC800_I-Family__Industrial___Multimarket_.XC82x-Series__Industrial=
___Multimarket_.DOCUMENTS.XC822_824_UM_v1.0.pdf&ns_type=3Dpdf&ns_url=3Dhttp=
://www.infineon.com/dgdl/XC822_824_UM_v1.0.pdf?folderId=3Ddb3a304412b407950=
112b40c497b0af6&fileId=3Ddb3a3043271faefd01272e620b6a7511

["XC82x and XC83x series ranges from 2KB to 8KB of programmable flash
and from 16-pin to 28-pin...
prices range from Euro 0.39 (US $0.55) to Euro 0.72 (US $1.01) in
100k quantities. Engineering samples of the XC82x series are
available, samples of the XC83X series starting April 2010."] e

>>> there was free give away of XC822 based development boards on embedded


I must have missed something, What is a XC822 ?

thanks

hamilton

On Mar 6, 11:14=A0pm, -jg <jim.granvi...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Mar 6, 8:59=A0pm, Antti <antti.luk...@googlemail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Mar 5, 11:53=A0pm, -jg <jim.granvi...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > On Mar 4, 9:30=A0am, -jg <jim.granvi...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > > Atmel also overlooked ANY xtal modes (?!) in the Tiny10, and it is =
no
> > > > longer that cheap (~55c/10K)
>
> > > > Contrast that, with the newest MSP430s
> > > > - 128 bytes RAM vs 32
> > > > - 14 Pins, [;)] 10 IO, in TSOP14, and 4mm MLF16
> > > > - 25c/100k, or 37c/1K
> > > > - It DOES have a 32Khz Xtal mode
> > > > (downside: Narrow Vcc range)
>
> > > > - So this part can make a smart RTC/System Monitor
> > > > (for that. you'd likely choose the 46c SPI variant,
> > > > or the 49c ADC model, where TI _did_ remember to
> > > > include a temperature sensor!! )
>
> > > and some more references at that (almost) same 55c
> > > price point, this one moves a column, but does have
> > > more Flash, more ram, more timers, and
> > > is quite a new step for Lumbering Infineon into a
> > > low-price pool. There are many Asian vendors with
> > > small 8051's, but it is good to see a serious industrial/automotive
> > > vendor hit the low price points.
>
> > > ["XC82x and XC83x series ranges from 2KB to 8KB of programmable flash
> > > and from 16-pin to 28-pin...
> > > =A0prices range from Euro 0.39 (US $0.55) to Euro 0.72 (US $1.01) in
> > > 100k quantities. Engineering samples of the XC82x series are
> > > available, samples of the XC83X series starting April 2010."]
>
> > > -jg
>
> > there was free give away of XC822 based development boards on embedded
>
> Did you score some ?
>
> Scanning the data: nice devices, extremely well resourced for a
> TSSOP16 pin device; unlike TI.
> they are 5.5V and can drive power fets directly.
> They also have ECC flash!.
>
> A couple of minor design decisions have me ???
> * They have RTC, and good RTC HW, but 'forgot' to
> include a Crystal support - just one RTCIN pin ?
> (also no HF crystal support - perhaps unreliable?)
> * BOD protects the core, but seems not settable above
> ~2.9V
> - A ~4.5V setpoint would be good for mosfet drive protection ?
>
> The ADC is fast, so perhaps that is for SOA usage ?
>
> Some good ROM features, but unclear if the non MDU models have still-
> working MathLibs?
>
> -jg
>
> -jg

hm, I wasnt hunting much :)

i scored:
- XC822 touch demo (includes FT232 based programmer)
- renesas "rtos evaluatuor" ? H8S, + sram, made as USB dongle, assumed
with some loader
- st8 discovery kit OF COURSE (includes STM32 based programmer)
- silabs ir slider kit (c8051f326 based programmer + silabs mcu + ir
detectorstuff)
- some NEC kit with LCD (maybe also with onboard programmer, need
check out)

some pencil's and one non digital memory device :)
(paper based notebook!)

Antti

On Mar 6, 8:59=A0pm, Antti <antti.luk...@googlemail.com> wrote:
> On Mar 5, 11:53=A0pm, -jg <jim.granvi...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Mar 4, 9:30=A0am, -jg <jim.granvi...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > Atmel also overlooked ANY xtal modes (?!) in the Tiny10, and it is no
> > > longer that cheap (~55c/10K)
>
> > > Contrast that, with the newest MSP430s
> > > - 128 bytes RAM vs 32
> > > - 14 Pins, [;)] 10 IO, in TSOP14, and 4mm MLF16
> > > - 25c/100k, or 37c/1K
> > > - It DOES have a 32Khz Xtal mode
> > > (downside: Narrow Vcc range)
>
> > > - So this part can make a smart RTC/System Monitor
> > > (for that. you'd likely choose the 46c SPI variant,
> > > or the 49c ADC model, where TI _did_ remember to
> > > include a temperature sensor!! )
>
> > and some more references at that (almost) same 55c
> > price point, this one moves a column, but does have
> > more Flash, more ram, more timers, and
> > is quite a new step for Lumbering Infineon into a
> > low-price pool. There are many Asian vendors with
> > small 8051's, but it is good to see a serious industrial/automotive
> > vendor hit the low price points.
>
> > ["XC82x and XC83x series ranges from 2KB to 8KB of programmable flash
> > and from 16-pin to 28-pin...
> > =A0prices range from Euro 0.39 (US $0.55) to Euro 0.72 (US $1.01) in
> > 100k quantities. Engineering samples of the XC82x series are
> > available, samples of the XC83X series starting April 2010."]
>
> > -jg
>
> there was free give away of XC822 based development boards on embedded

Did you score some ?

Scanning the data: nice devices, extremely well resourced for a
TSSOP16 pin device; unlike TI.
they are 5.5V and can drive power fets directly.
They also have ECC flash!.

A couple of minor design decisions have me ???
* They have RTC, and good RTC HW, but 'forgot' to
include a Crystal support - just one RTCIN pin ?
(also no HF crystal support - perhaps unreliable?)
* BOD protects the core, but seems not settable above
~2.9V
- A ~4.5V setpoint would be good for mosfet drive protection ?

The ADC is fast, so perhaps that is for SOA usage ?

Some good ROM features, but unclear if the non MDU models have still-
working MathLibs?

-jg




-jg

On Mar 5, 11:53=A0pm, -jg <jim.granvi...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Mar 4, 9:30=A0am, -jg <jim.granvi...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Atmel also overlooked ANY xtal modes (?!) in the Tiny10, and it is no
> > longer that cheap (~55c/10K)
>
> > Contrast that, with the newest MSP430s
> > - 128 bytes RAM vs 32
> > - 14 Pins, [;)] 10 IO, in TSOP14, and 4mm MLF16
> > - 25c/100k, or 37c/1K
> > - It DOES have a 32Khz Xtal mode
> > (downside: Narrow Vcc range)
>
> > - So this part can make a smart RTC/System Monitor
> > (for that. you'd likely choose the 46c SPI variant,
> > or the 49c ADC model, where TI _did_ remember to
> > include a temperature sensor!! )
>
> and some more references at that (almost) same 55c
> price point, this one moves a column, but does have
> more Flash, more ram, more timers, and
> is quite a new step for Lumbering Infineon into a
> low-price pool. There are many Asian vendors with
> small 8051's, but it is good to see a serious industrial/automotive
> vendor hit the low price points.
>
> ["XC82x and XC83x series ranges from 2KB to 8KB of programmable flash
> and from 16-pin to 28-pin...
> =A0prices range from Euro 0.39 (US $0.55) to Euro 0.72 (US $1.01) in
> 100k quantities. Engineering samples of the XC82x series are
> available, samples of the XC83X series starting April 2010."]
>
> -jg

there was free give away of XC822 based development boards on embedded

Antti

On Mar 4, 9:30=A0am, -jg <jim.granvi...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Atmel also overlooked ANY xtal modes (?!) in the Tiny10, and it is no
> longer that cheap (~55c/10K)
>
> Contrast that, with the newest MSP430s
> - 128 bytes RAM vs 32
> - 14 Pins, [;)] 10 IO, in TSOP14, and 4mm MLF16
> - 25c/100k, or 37c/1K
> - It DOES have a 32Khz Xtal mode
> (downside: Narrow Vcc range)
>
> - So this part can make a smart RTC/System Monitor
> (for that. you'd likely choose the 46c SPI variant,
> or the 49c ADC model, where TI _did_ remember to
> include a temperature sensor!! )

and some more references at that (almost) same 55c
price point, this one moves a column, but does have
more Flash, more ram, more timers, and
is quite a new step for Lumbering Infineon into a
low-price pool. There are many Asian vendors with
small 8051's, but it is good to see a serious industrial/automotive
vendor hit the low price points.

["XC82x and XC83x series ranges from 2KB to 8KB of programmable flash
and from 16-pin to 28-pin...
 prices range from Euro 0.39 (US $0.55) to Euro 0.72 (US $1.01) in
100k quantities. Engineering samples of the XC82x series are
available, samples of the XC83X series starting April 2010."]

-jg