On 4/22/2010 11:51 AM, Vladimir Vassilevsky wrote:
>
>
> Andrew Smallshaw wrote:
>
>> On 2010-04-21, Vladimir Vassilevsky <nospam@nowhere.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Done quite complicated systems with I2C shared in multitask OS. Never
>>> had a need to analyse the bus. There is no point to do that: if you
>>> have control of the master, you know what is going on.
>>
>>
>> Which is fine until you have a multi master bus,
>
> That great attention paid to multi master I2C thing always surprised me.
> Had anyone ever seen a system with multiple masters on I2C in reality?
Yes SMBus Batteries are MultiMaster.
>
>> or you are not
>> entirely sure your master is working as intended - e.g. it is being
>> bit-banged.
>
> If one can't implement such a trivial thing like I2C master bit banging
> so to be entirely confident in it, he is not fit for embedded.
Try Coding the master and slaves at the same time.
There is only so much you can see on a DSO.
>
>> Debugging and analysis tools are completely pointless
>> if you know exactly what is going on - you have no need even for
>> a voltmeter if you are able to compute accurately what the voltage
>> at a given point will be in a given situation. However it often
>> helps to be able to measure things since your assumptions about a
>> system are not always correct. Sure, I don't have an I2C analyser
>> here and I've always managed to get by without one, but that doesn't
>> mean I seen times when one would have been useful.
>
> I verify the code with LEDs, scope and control printouts; never had any
> need for fancy debug tools. Best debug is not making techical mistakes
> at first time.
Normal I agree. But I had the monitor, ( from a former job where there
was finger pointing) I used it, it saved me time.
>
> Vladimir Vassilevsky
> DSP and Mixed Signal Design Consultant
> http://www.abvolt.com
Reply by WangoTango●April 22, 20102010-04-22
In article <MPWdnRMAEcTw7U3WnZ2dnUVZ_jWdnZ2d@giganews.com>,
nospam@nowhere.com says...
>
>
> Andrew Smallshaw wrote:
>
> > On 2010-04-21, Vladimir Vassilevsky <nospam@nowhere.com> wrote:
> >
> >>Done quite complicated systems with I2C shared in multitask OS. Never
> >>had a need to analyse the bus. There is no point to do that: if you have
> >>control of the master, you know what is going on.
> >
> >
> > Which is fine until you have a multi master bus,
>
> That great attention paid to multi master I2C thing always surprised me.
> Had anyone ever seen a system with multiple masters on I2C in reality?
>
> > or you are not
> > entirely sure your master is working as intended - e.g. it is being
> > bit-banged.
>
> If one can't implement such a trivial thing like I2C master bit banging
> so to be entirely confident in it, he is not fit for embedded.
Yeah, you never had something NOT work as expected.
YOU never had to learn how to do anything, it just comes to you.
Blah, blah, blah.
We get it, you are the Master and the rest of us are not worthy, now
shut the fuck up. Didn't your mother ever tell you that if you don't
have anything nice to say, don't say anything at all.
>
> > Debugging and analysis tools are completely pointless
> > if you know exactly what is going on - you have no need even for
> > a voltmeter if you are able to compute accurately what the voltage
> > at a given point will be in a given situation. However it often
> > helps to be able to measure things since your assumptions about a
> > system are not always correct. Sure, I don't have an I2C analyser
> > here and I've always managed to get by without one, but that doesn't
> > mean I seen times when one would have been useful.
>
> I verify the code with LEDs, scope and control printouts; never had any
> need for fancy debug tools. Best debug is not making techical mistakes
> at first time.
See above, oh great one....
I love to see you puffed up peacocks strutting for the sake of doing it.
What are you 12 years old?
Reply by Vladimir Vassilevsky●April 22, 20102010-04-22
Andrew Smallshaw wrote:
> On 2010-04-21, Vladimir Vassilevsky <nospam@nowhere.com> wrote:
>
>>Done quite complicated systems with I2C shared in multitask OS. Never
>>had a need to analyse the bus. There is no point to do that: if you have
>>control of the master, you know what is going on.
>
>
> Which is fine until you have a multi master bus,
That great attention paid to multi master I2C thing always surprised me.
Had anyone ever seen a system with multiple masters on I2C in reality?
> or you are not
> entirely sure your master is working as intended - e.g. it is being
> bit-banged.
If one can't implement such a trivial thing like I2C master bit banging
so to be entirely confident in it, he is not fit for embedded.
> Debugging and analysis tools are completely pointless
> if you know exactly what is going on - you have no need even for
> a voltmeter if you are able to compute accurately what the voltage
> at a given point will be in a given situation. However it often
> helps to be able to measure things since your assumptions about a
> system are not always correct. Sure, I don't have an I2C analyser
> here and I've always managed to get by without one, but that doesn't
> mean I seen times when one would have been useful.
I verify the code with LEDs, scope and control printouts; never had any
need for fancy debug tools. Best debug is not making techical mistakes
at first time.
Vladimir Vassilevsky
DSP and Mixed Signal Design Consultant
http://www.abvolt.com
Reply by Rich Webb●April 22, 20102010-04-22
On Thu, 22 Apr 2010 14:01:01 +0000 (UTC), Andrew Smallshaw
<andrews@sdf.lonestar.org> wrote:
>On 2010-04-21, Vladimir Vassilevsky <nospam@nowhere.com> wrote:
>>
>> Neil wrote:
>>
>>> 2)I2C is simple if you are talking to an EEPROM. On a busy bus an
>>> Analyzer can be quite handy.
>>
>> Done quite complicated systems with I2C shared in multitask OS. Never
>> had a need to analyse the bus. There is no point to do that: if you have
>> control of the master, you know what is going on.
>
>Which is fine until you have a multi master bus, or you are not
>entirely sure your master is working as intended - e.g. it is being
>bit-banged. Debugging and analysis tools are completely pointless
>if you know exactly what is going on - you have no need even for
>a voltmeter if you are able to compute accurately what the voltage
>at a given point will be in a given situation. However it often
>helps to be able to measure things since your assumptions about a
>system are not always correct. Sure, I don't have an I2C analyser
>here and I've always managed to get by without one, but that doesn't
>mean I seen times when one would have been useful.
There are I2C interpreters included with some USB logic analyzers. The
one that I've been using for ages (maybe someday they'll even come out
with a new model!) is over at http://www.pctestinstruments.com/. The
application software can be loaded and run in demo mode without the LA
pod itself, so you can get a feel for how it's set up.
And I do agree with you. Bringing up a new peripheral on a new uC
talking to a new external device does often leave one wondering whether
all of the right registers have been touched in just the right way,
whether the timing is happy, and so on. It's comforting to be able to
just look at what is happening ...
--
Rich Webb Norfolk, VA
Reply by larwe●April 22, 20102010-04-22
On Apr 19, 9:46=A0pm, "rc_rcf" <bhumika.nayak@n_o_s_p_a_m.gmail.com>
wrote:
> data through a =A0I2C Data bus? I found a =A0few products online like AAr=
dvark,
> Beagle I2C protocol analyzer. I need product tht is Linux compatible.
> Moreover, i also need it to monitor as well as allow me to inject some
> data(sniffing). If you know of any such products please let me know.
The Beagle products are REALLY good. I've used them on SPI and I2C to
debug weird problems and to reverse-engineer protocols. They can
capture everything, trigger on certain events, ... ... ...
Reply by Andrew Smallshaw●April 22, 20102010-04-22
On 2010-04-21, Vladimir Vassilevsky <nospam@nowhere.com> wrote:
>
> Neil wrote:
>
>> 2)I2C is simple if you are talking to an EEPROM. On a busy bus an
>> Analyzer can be quite handy.
>
> Done quite complicated systems with I2C shared in multitask OS. Never
> had a need to analyse the bus. There is no point to do that: if you have
> control of the master, you know what is going on.
Which is fine until you have a multi master bus, or you are not
entirely sure your master is working as intended - e.g. it is being
bit-banged. Debugging and analysis tools are completely pointless
if you know exactly what is going on - you have no need even for
a voltmeter if you are able to compute accurately what the voltage
at a given point will be in a given situation. However it often
helps to be able to measure things since your assumptions about a
system are not always correct. Sure, I don't have an I2C analyser
here and I've always managed to get by without one, but that doesn't
mean I seen times when one would have been useful.
--
Andrew Smallshaw
andrews@sdf.lonestar.org
Reply by Vladimir Vassilevsky●April 21, 20102010-04-21
Neil wrote:
> On 4/20/2010 1:38 PM, Vladimir Vassilevsky wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> rc_rcf wrote:
>>
>>> Hi, I am new to I2C bus.
>>
>>
>> No, you not. You, my friend, are very, very stupid.
>>
>>> I need your help in letting me know how i can monitor
>>> data through a I2C Data bus? I found a few products online like
>>> AArdvark,
>>> Beagle I2C protocol analyzer. I need product tht is Linux compatible.
>>
>>
>> Emulate I2C by bit banging through PC LPT port. Emulation of master is
>> trivial, slave is little bit more tricky.
>>
>>> Moreover, i also need it to monitor as well as allow me to inject some
>>> data(sniffing). If you know of any such products please let me know.
>>> Could i use aardvark and wireshark in order to fulfil my requiremnts?
>>> Will wireshark capture I2C data and help me inject data through it as
>>> well??If so any specific plugin required for wireshark?
>>
>>
>> Idiot
>>
>>> what product will allow me to monitor I2C data as well as inject some
>>> data(sniffing)?
>>
>>
>> First and foremost: I2C is simple thing and there is absolutely no need
>> to analyse it (unless you do reverse engineering).
>>
>> VLV
>>
> 1) Bit banging an Ic2 Slave on a PC Printer port is a bit more than
> tricky. It is tricky bit banging a slave on a micro
No problem. You only have to load old good DOS.
> 2)I2C is simple if you are talking to an EEPROM. On a busy bus an
> Analyzer can be quite handy.
Done quite complicated systems with I2C shared in multitask OS. Never
had a need to analyse the bus. There is no point to do that: if you have
control of the master, you know what is going on.
> MCC makes them also MCC-US.com
VLV
Reply by Neil●April 21, 20102010-04-21
On 4/20/2010 1:38 PM, Vladimir Vassilevsky wrote:
>
>
> rc_rcf wrote:
>
>> Hi, I am new to I2C bus.
>
> No, you not. You, my friend, are very, very stupid.
>
>> I need your help in letting me know how i can monitor
>> data through a I2C Data bus? I found a few products online like AArdvark,
>> Beagle I2C protocol analyzer. I need product tht is Linux compatible.
>
> Emulate I2C by bit banging through PC LPT port. Emulation of master is
> trivial, slave is little bit more tricky.
>
>> Moreover, i also need it to monitor as well as allow me to inject some
>> data(sniffing). If you know of any such products please let me know.
>> Could i use aardvark and wireshark in order to fulfil my requiremnts?
>> Will wireshark capture I2C data and help me inject data through it as
>> well??If so any specific plugin required for wireshark?
>
> Idiot
>
>> what product will allow me to monitor I2C data as well as inject some
>> data(sniffing)?
>
> First and foremost: I2C is simple thing and there is absolutely no need
> to analyse it (unless you do reverse engineering).
>
> VLV
>
1) Bit banging an Ic2 Slave on a PC Printer port is a bit more than
tricky. It is tricky bit banging a slave on a micro
2)I2C is simple if you are talking to an EEPROM. On a busy bus an
Analyzer can be quite handy.
MCC makes them also MCC-US.com
Reply by Vladimir Vassilevsky●April 20, 20102010-04-20
rc_rcf wrote:
> Hi,
> I am new to I2C bus.
No, you not. You, my friend, are very, very stupid.
> I need your help in letting me know how i can monitor
> data through a I2C Data bus? I found a few products online like AArdvark,
> Beagle I2C protocol analyzer. I need product tht is Linux compatible.
Emulate I2C by bit banging through PC LPT port. Emulation of master is
trivial, slave is little bit more tricky.
> Moreover, i also need it to monitor as well as allow me to inject some
> data(sniffing). If you know of any such products please let me know.
>
> Could i use aardvark and wireshark in order to fulfil my requiremnts?
> Will wireshark capture I2C data and help me inject data through it as
> well??If so any specific plugin required for wireshark?
Idiot
> what product will allow me to monitor I2C data as well as inject some
> data(sniffing)?
First and foremost: I2C is simple thing and there is absolutely no need
to analyse it (unless you do reverse engineering).
VLV
Reply by d_s_klein●April 20, 20102010-04-20
On Apr 19, 6:46=A0pm, "rc_rcf" <bhumika.nayak@n_o_s_p_a_m.gmail.com>
wrote:
> Hi,
> I am new to I2C bus. I need your help in letting me know how i can monito=
r
> data through a =A0I2C Data bus? I found a =A0few products online like Aar=
dvark,
> Beagle I2C protocol analyzer. I need product that is Linux compatible.
> Moreover, i also need it to monitor as well as allow me to inject some
> data(sniffing). If you know of any such products please let me know.
>
> Could i use aardvark and wireshark in order to fulfill my requirements?
> =A0Will wireshark capture I2C data and help me inject data through it as
> well??If so any specific plugin required for wireshark?
> what product will allow me to monitor I2C data as well as inject some
> data(sniffing)?
>
> --------------------------------------- =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0
> Posted throughhttp://www.EmbeddedRelated.com
Aardvark is "Linux Compatible".
"Wireshark is a network protocol analyzer" eg. Ethernet.
RK