Dnia Mon, 17 Jan 2011 08:21:29 -0700, hamilton napisa�(a):
> I just checked my TeratermPro install directory.
>
> Total size is about 5MB.
>
> What do you consider lightweight ?
>
> Were talking Windoze here, nothing in WXP in that small.
>
> What I would like to see is a term program that displays hex values.
>
> Ulf Samuelsson wrote:
>
> [...]
>
>> Still have RS232 on my laptop - It is old...
>> The plans for a new laptop would be an Expresscard
>> where the serial port is on PCI Express and not on USB.
>
> Several new notebook PCs are offered with a real serial port, but not
> many, so the card might be the preferred method.
>
> Pay attention not to get a disguised USB interface.
>
Although few laptops come with a serial port (or parallel port), a fair
number of docking stations have them. We got some Dell laptops about a
year or two ago, with docking stations with a parallel port and a serial
port. It's not quite as good as having it on the laptop itself, but the
chances are if you've room on the desk for the electronics, you've room
for the docking station.
Reply by Oliver Betz●January 21, 20112011-01-21
Ulf Samuelsson wrote:
[...]
>Still have RS232 on my laptop - It is old...
>The plans for a new laptop would be an Expresscard
>where the serial port is on PCI Express and not on USB.
Several new notebook PCs are offered with a real serial port, but not
many, so the card might be the preferred method.
Pay attention not to get a disguised USB interface.
Oliver
--
Oliver Betz, Muenchen (oliverbetz.de)
Reply by Rich Webb●January 20, 20112011-01-20
On Thu, 20 Jan 2011 22:55:56 +0100, Ulf Samuelsson <ulf@fake.atmel.com>
wrote:
>On Mon, 17 Jan 2011 12:46:39 -0700, D Yuniskis
><not.going.to.be@seen.com> wrote:
>> I think the OP's point is that getting (reliable and available)
>serial
>> ports on computers is becoming increasingly difficult. E.g., it
>> is similar to "finding a 5in floppy".
>
>
>
>
>> While you can purchase USB-serial dongles, installing one on a
>> machine requires having administrator privileges (PC-speak). So,
>> it is a "less desirable" approach than it has been hysterically.
>
>Still have RS232 on my laptop - It is old...
I can beat that: I still have a parallel printer port on the laptop. ;-)
An old HP workhorse but it's really my main machine. Had to scrub and
reload WinXP from scratch recently (Windows had rusted too much) but
it's otherwise been a champion.
--
Rich Webb Norfolk, VA
Reply by Ulf Samuelsson●January 20, 20112011-01-20
On Mon, 17 Jan 2011 12:46:39 -0700, D Yuniskis
<not.going.to.be@seen.com> wrote:
> I think the OP's point is that getting (reliable and available)
serial
> ports on computers is becoming increasingly difficult. E.g., it
> is similar to "finding a 5in floppy".
> While you can purchase USB-serial dongles, installing one on a
> machine requires having administrator privileges (PC-speak). So,
> it is a "less desirable" approach than it has been hysterically.
Still have RS232 on my laptop - It is old...
The plans for a new laptop would be an Expresscard
where the serial port is on PCI Express and not on USB.
BR
Ulf Samuelsson
--
Best Regards,
Ulf Samuelsson
Reply by Ulf Samuelsson●January 20, 20112011-01-20
On Sun, 16 Jan 2011 19:16:13 +0000, John Devereux
<john@devereux.me.uk> wrote:
> Grant Edwards <invalid@invalid.invalid> writes:
> > On 2011-01-15, Oliver Betz <OBetz@despammed.com> wrote:
> >> rickman wrote:
> >>
> >> [...]
> >>
> >>>But I'm looking forward to the day when 232 is replaced by USB,
not
> >>>because laptop makers refuse to have them in the machine, but
because
> >>>USB is so easy to add there is no reason to use 232.
> >>
> >> Maybe I have a different understanding of "easy".
> >>
> >> Using a terminal program (e.g the one supplied with the PC
operating
> >> system) is easy.
> >
> > The problem is that Windows doesn't supply a terminal program.
All it
> > comes with is "Hyperterminal". While it has the word "terminal"
in
> > it's name I don't think it qualifies as a terminal program. It's
so
> > bad it barely qualifies as a program at all.
> >
> > 1/2 ;)
> It doesn't even have Hyperterminal any more...
> For firmware updates I am just now trying a new method - for me -
where
> the bootloader emulates a USB flash drive. It wasn't too hard to get
> going, has the advantage of no drivers required. Seems to work
well. No
> more trying to get users to install drivers, or having the windows
.exe
> attachments blocked by all three email accounts they give me.
> --
> John Devereux
I have an SD card aware bootloader that can boot U-Boot/Linux or the
USB MSA
from the SD Card and this is GREAT.
The Bootloader is stored on the SD Card so no flash in the system.
BR
Ulf Samuelsson
On serial comms: I really wish SLIM Bus would take off.
28.8 kbps - 28.8 Mbps.
Two wires
Multidrop
Peer to peer
Automatic configuration of network
Isochronus operation
BR
Ulf Samuelsson
--
Best Regards,
Ulf Samuelsson
Reply by Ulf Samuelsson●January 20, 20112011-01-20
On Sat, 15 Jan 2011 12:47:48 -0800 (PST), linnix
<me@linnix.info-for.us> wrote:
> On Jan 15, 12:25�pm, rickman <gnu...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > On Jan 15, 1:52�pm, Oliver Betz <OB...@despammed.com> wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > > rickman wrote:
> >
> > > [...]
> >
> > > >But I'm looking forward to the day when 232 is replaced by
USB, not
> > > >because laptop makers refuse to have them in the machine, but
because
> > > >USB is so easy to add there is no reason to use 232.
> >
> > > Maybe I have a different understanding of "easy".
> >
> > > Using a terminal program (e.g the one supplied with the PC
operating
> > > system) is easy. I can guide a customer's technician on the
phone to
> > > do it. He doesn't even need Internet access there.
> >
> > > Providing software to access the USB HID data for every
operating
> > > system is IMNSHO less easy. Windows X86, Windows 64 bit, Linux,
Mac OS
> > > X, to be supported for more than ten years. I don't like to do
it.
> >
> > Why does this require more than a terminal program? �I use a USB
> > serial port with all sorts of software that is written to talk to
a
> > serial port. �Can a USB device be configured to look like a serial
> > port independent of what the USB chip is actually connected to? �I
> > would think you could use any interface you want from the MCU to
the
> > rest of the circuit, but the USB MCU should be able to fake out a
> > serial port to the PC, no?
> >
> Yes, any USB uC can implement CDC device. Window can use VCOM
> (Virtual Com port) for them. The problem is that VCOMXX can be
> changing. I am upto VCOM17 on my PC, without anything in between 1
> and 16.
If the device has a device id, then you only get one COM port.
If it doesn`t you get a new COM port if you change the USB port.
BR,
Ulf Samuelsson
--
Best Regards,
Ulf Samuelsson
Reply by Oliver Betz●January 18, 20112011-01-18
D Yuniskis wrote:
[...]
>Most USB devices require "administrator privilege". I think
>even new (non-network) printers can't be installed without it.
>Mass storage and HID seem to be the only exceptions.
Also MTP and PTP work without installation, put HID seems to be
simpler and there are lots of code samples and even extremly simple
hardware solutions.
>Mass storage has more options available to "talk to it".
It could be used to read and store configuration with a text editor,
but not for interactive things. Larger footprint than HID.
>HID requires something to interpret the information sent.
>
>If your constraints remain inflexible (no software to install,
>small footprint in the device, etc.), then the only idea I
>can offer would be a device with two USB ports -- host mode
>on one of them. Insert device as a keyboard wedge (PS/2 would
>be far cheaper but requires obsolescent keyboards) and instruct
>the user to open, for example, "Notepad".
>
>Then, push characters into notepad -- in effect, using it as a
>"text display". Respond to keystrokes from the keyboard that
>is now plugged into your device and update the "display"
>accordingly.
Try this with a notebook computer.
>This is far too much of a kludge, for me! :-/ Too many things
An euphemism, IMO.
The Ethernet <-> EIA232 thing you mentioned in the next posting is
simpler and more elegant. In the past, we already considered supplying
such a tool, but it would have the already mentioned connectivity
problems if the PC Ethernet port can't be used exclusively, and often
it would be not where it's needed (unscheduled service in the field).
>can go wrong if, for example, the focus shifts...
>
>Find a robust USB-serial dongle and give your users instructions
>on how to install the drivers. Purchase a lifetime supply of
That's what we recommend today if the customer didn't buy a good
computer _with_ comm port.
>these dongles and sell them to your users at "cost". (this is not
I even give them out for free.
The "not available in the field" problem still applies. Often we have
to deal with the solutions the field worker already has on his
computer. And they often use crappy USB <-> UART dongles.
Oliver
--
Oliver Betz, Munich
despammed.com is broken, use Reply-To:
Reply by Andrew Reilly●January 18, 20112011-01-18
On Mon, 17 Jan 2011 12:08:46 -0700, D Yuniskis wrote:
> Hmmm... it *thinks* it can cache with impunity. E.g., how does it deal
> with "smart devices" that *look* like mass storage devices? E.g.,
> cameras, MP3 players...
I believe that quite a lot of cameras have (or perhaps just can) connect
their USB ports using a different protocol/profile than MSC (PTP).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Picture_Transfer_Protocol
This might be so that they can avoid the caching issue, or perhaps it's a
step towards avoiding having to expose (and license) FAT file systems.
Dunno.
Cheers,
--
Andrew
Reply by Didi●January 18, 20112011-01-18
Hi Don,
On Jan 17, 9:46=A0pm, D Yuniskis <not.going.to...@seen.com> wrote:
>....
> I think the OP's point is that getting (reliable and available) serial
> ports on computers is becoming increasingly difficult.
Well I get that, yes, my point is that adapting to what MS & Intel do
is doing work for them. Not that I can offer Oliver some alternative
path,
just observing and moaning, I guess (but moaning putting my money
where my mouth is).
> Yes, but the OP doesn't want to bear the cost of the NIC and stack.
I get that, too - and I made it clear in my first post. It is insane
to expect a NIC + tcp stack on top of a tiny hc08 or something.
OTOH, getting a 400 MHz power (PPC) SOC consuming just 1W and
costing tens of dollars has been possible for years now, this
is the other extreme.
> > If speed does not matter, RS232 is just fine.
>
> ... unless it isn't available! =A0:>
My point, they made USB exactly to gain more control. There was
no compelling technical reason not to define a connector with
power on it for Ethernet back then instead of defining a
standard they would control. And if there is no decent
USB <-> RS232 converter on the market (which appears to be
the case), this is only one more reason for me to treat
wintel systems as what they are, computerized TV sets.
So far they are forced to have Ethernet - I am sure they
are working on that problem they have, too.
Dimiter
------------------------------------------------------
Dimiter Popoff Transgalactic Instruments
http://www.tgi-sci.com
------------------------------------------------------
http://www.flickr.com/photos/didi_tgi/sets/72157600228621276/