Reply by Mark Borgerson●February 9, 20112011-02-09
In article <f7fa79f0-2c8f-412e-8091-
2021d192b10b@i40g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>, cbarn24050@aol.com says...
>
> On Feb 6, 5:56�am, Mark Borgerson <mborger...@comcast.net> wrote:
> > In article <bfd32828-5df3-492b-b243-22905ff5bd42
> > @d19g2000yql.googlegroups.com>, zwsdot...@gmail.com says...
> >
> >
> >
> > > On Feb 5, 8:03�pm, Jim Stewart <jstew...@jkmicro.com> wrote:
> >
> > > > It's still on my bench, still has a bright
> > > > trace.
> >
> > > > Same issue with the wife too...
> >
> > > So I'm hearing that your wife still has good bright phosphor and
> > > doesn't need recapping? Impressive!
> >
> > Well, I don't know about you guys, but my wife tops the TDS210
> > significantly in return on investment! �;-)
> >
> > Mark Borgerson
>
> So far!!
Hmmm, if we are going to grade marriages like investments, do we need
a "Past performance is no guarantee of future results" disclaimer? ;-)
Reply by Paul E. Bennett●February 8, 20112011-02-08
cbarn24050@aol.com wrote:
> On Feb 5, 11:28 am, "Paul E. Bennett" <Paul_E.Benn...@topmail.co.uk>
> wrote:
>> aladin wrote:
>> > Hi,
>>
>> > I have to start working on two boards
>>
>> > TS-7200
>> > and an fpga
>>
>> > I was wondering what kind on oscilloscope should I get?
>>
>> > With TS-7200, I am going to be using pc like protocols(rs323--i2c),
>> > over general purpose pins.
>>
>> > Thank you.
>>
>> Used to exclusively use a Tektronix 254. Sadly that died a while ago so
>> now use the TPS2024. This has four isolated channels (useful for fault
>> finding motor power drive circuits) and has 200MHz bandwidth, is totally
>> portable and very lightweight to carry, and features a reasonable set of
>> capture and analysis functions.
>>
>> <http://www2.tek.com/cmswpt/psdetails.lotr?ct=PS&cs=psu&ci=13304&lc=EN>
>>
>
> Very suseptable to switching noise and dificult to read the display if
> you cant look directly at it.
For those of us who are used to looking at screens square on that is not a
problem (most old scopes you needed to do that because the graticule layer
was separate from the screen. You needed to be square on to properly check
out the timing or amplitude of the waveform you were monitoring.
--
********************************************************************
Paul E. Bennett...............<email://Paul_E.Bennett@topmail.co.uk>
Forth based HIDECS Consultancy
Mob: +44 (0)7811-639972
Tel: +44 (0)1235-510979
Going Forth Safely ..... EBA. www.electric-boat-association.org.uk..
********************************************************************
Reply by cbar...@aol.com●February 8, 20112011-02-08
On Feb 6, 5:56=A0am, Mark Borgerson <mborger...@comcast.net> wrote:
> In article <bfd32828-5df3-492b-b243-22905ff5bd42
> @d19g2000yql.googlegroups.com>, zwsdot...@gmail.com says...
>
>
>
> > On Feb 5, 8:03=A0pm, Jim Stewart <jstew...@jkmicro.com> wrote:
>
> > > It's still on my bench, still has a bright
> > > trace.
>
> > > Same issue with the wife too...
>
> > So I'm hearing that your wife still has good bright phosphor and
> > doesn't need recapping? Impressive!
>
> Well, I don't know about you guys, but my wife tops the TDS210
> significantly in return on investment! =A0;-)
>
> Mark Borgerson
So far!!
Reply by cbar...@aol.com●February 8, 20112011-02-08
On Feb 5, 5:33=A0pm, Tim Wescott <t...@seemywebsite.com> wrote:
> On 02/04/2011 06:46 PM, larwe wrote:> On Feb 4, 8:45 pm, "aladin"<jc_322@=
n_o_s_p_a_m.hotmail.com> =A0wrote:
>
> >> TS-7200
> >> and an fpga
> >> I was wondering what kind on oscilloscope should I get?
> >> With TS-7200, I am going to be using pc like protocols(rs323--i2c), ov=
er
> >> general purpose pins.
>
> << snip >>
>
> > I also own, but unwisely loaned out, an HP 54645D scope
> > with 2 analog channels and 16 digital channels - a mini logic analyzer
> > - which is MUCH more useful. If you can get it, a scope like that
> > makes your life very much easier because of the digital channels, and
> > also because the HP scopes have great memory depth - capture a signal
> > zoomed out, and zoom in after you've frozen it to see the detail.
> > Saves you a lot of time tinkering with trigger conditions to capture a
> > particular event.
>
> I love my Agilent 54622D. =A0I bought it when I started consulting, and
> it's paid for itself several times over on embedded projects. =A0Way
> spendy -- if there's a budget minded alternative now you may want to go
> for it, but if you're working for bux it's a sensible buy.
>
> --
>
> Tim Wescott
> Wescott Design Serviceshttp://www.wescottdesign.com
>
> Do you need to implement control loops in software?
> "Applied Control Theory for Embedded Systems" was written for you.
> See details athttp://www.wescottdesign.com/actfes/actfes.html
Yes an excelent choice although it is suseptable to radiated noise.
The earlier version is cheap(ish) on ebay but it doesnt work so well
at line frequencies.
Reply by cbar...@aol.com●February 8, 20112011-02-08
On Feb 5, 11:28=A0am, "Paul E. Bennett" <Paul_E.Benn...@topmail.co.uk>
wrote:
> aladin wrote:
> > Hi,
>
> > I have to start working on two boards
>
> > TS-7200
> > and an fpga
>
> > I was wondering what kind on oscilloscope should I get?
>
> > With TS-7200, I am going to be using pc like protocols(rs323--i2c), ove=
r
> > general purpose pins.
>
> > Thank you.
>
> Used to exclusively use a Tektronix 254. Sadly that died a while ago so n=
ow
> use the TPS2024. This has four isolated channels (useful for fault findin=
g
> motor power drive circuits) and has 200MHz bandwidth, is totally portable
> and very lightweight to carry, and features a reasonable set of capture a=
>
> --
> ********************************************************************
> Paul E. Bennett...............<email://Paul_E.Benn...@topmail.co.uk>
> Forth based HIDECS Consultancy
> Mob: +44 (0)7811-639972
> Tel: +44 (0)1235-510979
> Going Forth Safely ..... EBA.www.electric-boat-association.org.uk..
> ********************************************************************
Very suseptable to switching noise and dificult to read the display if
you cant look directly at it.
Reply by JW●February 7, 20112011-02-07
On Sun, 6 Feb 2011 09:38:58 -0000 Paul <paul@pcserviceselectronics.co.uk>
wrote in Message id: <MPG.27b87c8d47c67ff69896ac@172.16.0.1>:
>In article <e67b98fa-d6f8-4895-acd8-
>0626dfad48be@j11g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>, zwsdotcom@gmail.com says...
>>
>> On Feb 5, 6:28�pm, Paul <p...@pcserviceselectronics.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>> > > That is way cool. Now I'm looking at my old TDS210 and thinking "I
>> > > could upgrade you to a 4 channel color unit...."
>> >
>> > Watch for when repetitive sample kicks in. One of the reasons I
>> > discounted HP/Rigol and a few others.
>>
>> For the braindead (remember I officially work in Marketing now, not
>> Engineering ;)) what does this actually mean? Are you referring to the
>> fact that (at least on my erstwhile HP) when you zoom in, at some
>> point it starts interpolating samples that aren't there by drawing
>> vectors between real points?
>
>Beyond a certain sampling speed (not timebase setting), the scope takes
>samples of the waveform many times slightly offset to build up a higher
>effective sample rate of the waveform. this is good for looking at
>continuous waveforms (sine wave), but lousy for looking at high speed
>datastreams or digitial video down to pixels or their edges, as these
>change every time it builds up the waveform samples, usually for each
>triggered event. So looking for a particular packet in a datastream
>or the pixel on a line can be difficult, as either the event happens
>once and their is net to no samples to display anything useful, or you
>cannot guarantee what you are seeing is valid.
>
>Your datasheet has to be read very carfully. A usual giveaway is terms
>like 'Efective Sampling rate'.
>
>I know Rigol/HP do this and I have seen this on Yamamachi scopes at what
>I would consider a fairly low sampling rate.
>
>Often this is NOT something you KNOWINGLY choose, and you need to know
>what the actual max sampling rate is, which is different to bandwidth
>of scope. You would be amazed how many lower cost upto 200MHz scopes
>actually have sampling rates of the order of 100 to 500 Mhz and use
>repetitive sampling to acheive the EFFECTIVE 1 to 2 Gsa/s.
>
>Repetitive sampling goes under many (mainly marketing) phrases including
>Effective Time Sampling.
>
>You need to know on a scope when this will happen, as this is built into
>the scope and is NOT A USER SETTING.
I have a Lecroy 9374L that at least informs you when it is doing this by
placing RIS next to the time/div on the display. Newer Lecroys will *not*
enter this mode unless the user specifically sets up the scope to do so.
Here's some pretty good info on the subject:
http://www.lecroy.com/files/WhitePapers/WP_Ris_102203.pdf
Reply by Paul E. Bennett●February 6, 20112011-02-06
larwe wrote:
> On Feb 5, 6:28 pm, Paul <p...@pcserviceselectronics.co.uk> wrote:
>
>> > That is way cool. Now I'm looking at my old TDS210 and thinking "I
>> > could upgrade you to a 4 channel color unit...."
>>
>> Watch for when repetitive sample kicks in. One of the reasons I
>> discounted HP/Rigol and a few others.
>
> For the braindead (remember I officially work in Marketing now, not
> Engineering ;)) what does this actually mean? Are you referring to the
> fact that (at least on my erstwhile HP) when you zoom in, at some
> point it starts interpolating samples that aren't there by drawing
> vectors between real points?
The user should always make themselves familiar with the capabilities and
limitations of the equipment they are using in order to extract the best
informational value out of its use. Besides, it is fun to play with a new
piece of test equipment when you first get it just to get familiar with it.
--
********************************************************************
Paul E. Bennett...............<email://Paul_E.Bennett@topmail.co.uk>
Forth based HIDECS Consultancy
Mob: +44 (0)7811-639972
Tel: +44 (0)1235-510979
Going Forth Safely ..... EBA. www.electric-boat-association.org.uk..
********************************************************************
Reply by Paul●February 6, 20112011-02-06
In article <e67b98fa-d6f8-4895-acd8-
0626dfad48be@j11g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>, zwsdotcom@gmail.com says...
>
> On Feb 5, 6:28�pm, Paul <p...@pcserviceselectronics.co.uk> wrote:
>
> > > That is way cool. Now I'm looking at my old TDS210 and thinking "I
> > > could upgrade you to a 4 channel color unit...."
> >
> > Watch for when repetitive sample kicks in. One of the reasons I
> > discounted HP/Rigol and a few others.
>
> For the braindead (remember I officially work in Marketing now, not
> Engineering ;)) what does this actually mean? Are you referring to the
> fact that (at least on my erstwhile HP) when you zoom in, at some
> point it starts interpolating samples that aren't there by drawing
> vectors between real points?
Beyond a certain sampling speed (not timebase setting), the scope takes
samples of the waveform many times slightly offset to build up a higher
effective sample rate of the waveform. this is good for looking at
continuous waveforms (sine wave), but lousy for looking at high speed
datastreams or digitial video down to pixels or their edges, as these
change every time it builds up the waveform samples, usually for each
triggered event. So looking for a particular packet in a datastream
or the pixel on a line can be difficult, as either the event happens
once and their is net to no samples to display anything useful, or you
cannot guarantee what you are seeing is valid.
Your datasheet has to be read very carfully. A usual giveaway is terms
like 'Efective Sampling rate'.
I know Rigol/HP do this and I have seen this on Yamamachi scopes at what
I would consider a fairly low sampling rate.
Often this is NOT something you KNOWINGLY choose, and you need to know
what the actual max sampling rate is, which is different to bandwidth
of scope. You would be amazed how many lower cost upto 200MHz scopes
actually have sampling rates of the order of 100 to 500 Mhz and use
repetitive sampling to acheive the EFFECTIVE 1 to 2 Gsa/s.
Repetitive sampling goes under many (mainly marketing) phrases including
Effective Time Sampling.
You need to know on a scope when this will happen, as this is built into
the scope and is NOT A USER SETTING.
See
http://www2.tek.com/cmswpt/tidetails.lotr?ct=TI&cs=Application+Note&ci=
14295&lc=EN
http://www.evaluationengineering.com/index.php/solutions/instrumentation
/beyond-the-specs-what-to-ask-about-scopes.html
A Tek primer on it.
http://www.cbtricks.com/miscellaneous/tech_publications/scope/sampling.p
df
http://www.picotech.com/applications/oscilloscope_tutorial.html
--
Paul Carpenter | paul@pcserviceselectronics.co.uk
<http://www.pcserviceselectronics.co.uk/> PC Services
<http://www.pcserviceselectronics.co.uk/fonts/> Timing Diagram Font
<http://www.gnuh8.org.uk/> GNU H8 - compiler & Renesas H8/H8S/H8 Tiny
<http://www.badweb.org.uk/> For those web sites you hate
Reply by Mark Borgerson●February 6, 20112011-02-06
In article <bfd32828-5df3-492b-b243-22905ff5bd42
@d19g2000yql.googlegroups.com>, zwsdotcom@gmail.com says...
>
> On Feb 5, 8:03�pm, Jim Stewart <jstew...@jkmicro.com> wrote:
>
> > It's still on my bench, still has a bright
> > trace.
> >
> > Same issue with the wife too...
>
> So I'm hearing that your wife still has good bright phosphor and
> doesn't need recapping? Impressive!
Well, I don't know about you guys, but my wife tops the TDS210
significantly in return on investment! ;-)
Mark Borgerson
Reply by scrts●February 5, 20112011-02-05
Thats right, I've got my DSO5102B, reflashed it to DSO5202B and now have a
200MHz BW scope for a 100MHz price. Currently using to debug my design with
Spartan-3E board and I am VERY happy with it! All the instructions about mod
are on the eevblog forum and my blog :)
"Roberto Waltman" <usenet@rwaltman.com> wrote in message
news:hr3rk61dv397s53p4rrdpc9hmnsm3uo771@4ax.com...