On 26 Mar 2004 00:13:07 -0800, jonsquire2000@hotmail.com (Jon S.)
wrote in comp.arch.embedded:
> I'm still waiting for my first dsPIC samples :)
>
> I know that TI has a good uC/DSP with quadrature decoders en CAN
> interface. Don't find the partnummer right away.
>
>
> > Thanks for the feedback folks.
> Jim Granville wrote:
>
>> Jim Granville wrote:
>>
>>> The DSP vendors seem a little uncertain how to pitch to the general
>>> microcontroller markets. Motorola and TI and Philips all have fast
>>> FLASH solutions, whilst ADI seem to have chosen RAM based devices
>>> and de-emphasised their flash lineups.
>
>
> This lack of flash DSP microcontroller lineup for ADI is pushing me
> strongly toward TI.
>
>> A little more on these comments - I see ADI are about to unveil a
>> ADuC7xxx (ARM7/TAG Debug) Microconverter family, in 6mm x 6mm packages.
>
>
> This could be real interesting.
<snip>
Yes, more info has now appeared :
http://www.analog.com/UploadedFiles/Product_Highlights/568494395MCU_brochure.pdf
&
http://www.analog.com/microconverter
Short form data is linked from here, but it is sparse (16-18 pages)
They have 12 bit 1MSPS (!) ADCs, DACs, PWM, 45MIPS ARM7TDMI, 40/64/80
Pins, and an interesting thing called a PLA, which looks like 8+8 'FPGA
Logic elements' - might be enough to do things like Quadrature
conditioning, or fast-protection of PWM outputs, or dead-band control ?
Claims a 32x32 -> 64 Mult & MAC, opcodes.
Less FLASH than Philips, but higher performance peripherals, and
smaller package options. Also includes Core regulator, for true
single-chip operation.
Not looking like good news for dsPIC, where signs are they
struggle to meet the target speed specs of 30MHz, and dsPIC ADC
spec is that of a jelly-bean 8 bit Core.
-jg
Reply by Lou●March 26, 20042004-03-26
On Thu, 25 Mar 2004 19:59:22 -0600, "Earl Bollinger"
<earlwbollinger@comcast.net> wrote:
>The Motorola DSP56F80x series works good.
>But maybe it is a little slow at 80mhz for you. Plus it's only a 16 bit DSP
>chip.
>I like the ones from www.newmicros.com as they come with ISOMAX(tm) and
>FORTH built in for ease of use.
>It's fun to not have to use a JTAG programmer unless you need it.
>But there is also Metrowerks Code warrior, an assembler and a free Small C
>compiler too. I think someone else has a C compiler too for it.
>I like the chip for all the timers that it has and all the PWM channels you
>can get going for motion control etc.
>
>"Chris Carlen" <crobc@BOGUS_FIELD.earthlink.net> wrote in message
>news:c3tmh902tn1@enews2.newsguy.com...
>> Hi:
>>
>> I'm looking for DSP-like microcontrollers and microcontroller-like DSPs.
>>
>> So far I am interested in TMS320F2812, but it is a bit heavy handed for
>> some applications I would be considering.
>>
>> I had decided to move away from Microchip a few years ago and instead
>> standardize on AVR for my 8-bit MCU of choice, mainly because of avr-gcc
>> and the AVR architecture is much more pleasant to work with. My
>> applications are ease of use and tool cost conscious more than anything,
>> so I don't mind the slightly higher price of AVRs.
>>
>> But I will be needing some DSP capabilities. I would like to find a CPU
>> that gives reasonable performance of 30-150MIPS with lots of MCU
>> peripherals. The dsPIC and the TI are the ones I am aware of so far.
>>
>> I spent some time lately looking at the dsPIC again, and despite my
>> wanting to avoid Microchip and their klunky architectures, I have to
>> admit this chip seems dsPICable, er, I mean pretty nice. But the darned
>> thing appears to be vaporware!
>>
>> Anyway, I will be attending a 1-day workshop with TI on the TMS320F2812,
>> and getting a development kit.
>>
>> As for Microchip, I guess we'll just have to wait.
>>
>> Any other recommendations for MCU-like DSPs and DSP-like MCUs? I don't
>> really like the idea of going to Motorola, since I have heard their
>> tools are a headache (needing to but a different tool for each chip) and
>> I never know if their chips are going to be discontinued tomorrow.
>> Other than those objections, I do know they have some nice
>DSP/controllers.
>>
>> Another idea I suppose for the 30-150 MIPS range might be ARM, since I
>> know it has some MACs and stuff like that. Haven't really researched
>> ARM much yet.
>>
>> I sure hope the market drives the production of more of these hybrid
>> DSP/MCU type chips in the future.
>>
>> Thanks for comments.
>>
>>
>> Good day!
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> _____________________
>> Christopher R. Carlen
>> crobc@earthlink.net
>> Suse 8.1 Linux 2.4.19
>>
>
>
Hi, make sure you take a look at the Analog Devices BlackFin family.
16-bit fixed point, reasonably priced and with excellent tools.
AD actually calls these processors rather than DSP's.
The BF533 is the one to look at the hardest.
Cheers,
Lou
Reply by Chris Carlen●March 26, 20042004-03-26
Jim Granville wrote:
> Jim Granville wrote:
>> The DSP vendors seem a little uncertain how to pitch to the general
>> microcontroller markets. Motorola and TI and Philips all have fast
>> FLASH solutions, whilst ADI seem to have chosen RAM based devices
>> and de-emphasised their flash lineups.
This lack of flash DSP microcontroller lineup for ADI is pushing me
strongly toward TI.
> A little more on these comments - I see ADI are about to unveil a
> ADuC7xxx (ARM7/TAG Debug) Microconverter family, in 6mm x 6mm packages.
This could be real interesting.
> That could explain their FLASH DSP withdrawal, and focus on the SRAM
> DSP devices in the hundreds of MHz region.
> Seems they have ARM to cover the MCU / Sub 100MHz region, where it
> is going to be an easier sell. Their present Microconverters are
> 16/24 Bit ADC, and with > 10MIPS reduced clock 80C51 FLASH cores.
8051, blech.
I mean, I know 8051 is all over, but as a developer of low volume
(usually one-off) scientific instruments, I'd rather stick with modern
cores.
Thanks for the input.
Good day!
--
____________________________________
Christopher R. Carlen
Principal Laser/Optical Technologist
Sandia National Laboratories CA USA
crcarle@sandia.gov
Reply by Jim Granville●March 26, 20042004-03-26
Jim Granville wrote:
<snip>
>> But I will be needing some DSP capabilities. I would like to find a
>> CPU that gives reasonable performance of 30-150MIPS with lots of MCU
>> peripherals. The dsPIC and the TI are the ones I am aware of so far.
>
>
> Look also at the Philips ARM families, 60MHz speeds
> http://www.philipssemiconductors.com/markets/mms/products/microcontrollers/key_solutions/32bit/index.html
>
>
> The TI DSPs and Philips ARMs are both 32 bit, so the dsPIC is looking
> like it has missed the gate - when they first talked about it 2+ years
> ago now, it was a reasonable step forward, but their delays means the
> leading edge has rather moved on....
> Certainly, many users are now going to simply skip 16 bit devices....
<snip>
>
> The DSP vendors seem a little uncertain how to pitch to the general
> microcontroller markets. Motorola and TI and Philips all have fast
> FLASH solutions, whilst ADI seem to have chosen RAM based devices
> and de-emphasised their flash lineups.
A little more on these comments - I see ADI are about to unveil a
ADuC7xxx (ARM7/TAG Debug) Microconverter family, in 6mm x 6mm packages.
That could explain their FLASH DSP withdrawal, and focus on the SRAM
DSP devices in the hundreds of MHz region.
Seems they have ARM to cover the MCU / Sub 100MHz region, where it
is going to be an easier sell. Their present Microconverters are
16/24 Bit ADC, and with > 10MIPS reduced clock 80C51 FLASH cores.
-jg
Reply by Jon S.●March 26, 20042004-03-26
I'm still waiting for my first dsPIC samples :)
I know that TI has a good uC/DSP with quadrature decoders en CAN
interface. Don't find the partnummer right away.
> Thanks for the feedback folks.
Reply by Chris Carlen●March 25, 20042004-03-25
Chris Carlen wrote:
[stuff]
Thanks for the feedback folks.
--
_____________________
Christopher R. Carlen
crobc@earthlink.net
Suse 8.1 Linux 2.4.19
Reply by Jack Klein●March 25, 20042004-03-25
On Wed, 24 Mar 2004 20:17:44 -0800, Chris Carlen
<crobc@BOGUS_FIELD.earthlink.net> wrote in comp.arch.embedded:
> Hi:
>
> I'm looking for DSP-like microcontrollers and microcontroller-like DSPs.
>
> So far I am interested in TMS320F2812, but it is a bit heavy handed for
> some applications I would be considering.
>
> I had decided to move away from Microchip a few years ago and instead
> standardize on AVR for my 8-bit MCU of choice, mainly because of avr-gcc
> and the AVR architecture is much more pleasant to work with. My
> applications are ease of use and tool cost conscious more than anything,
> so I don't mind the slightly higher price of AVRs.
>
> But I will be needing some DSP capabilities. I would like to find a CPU
> that gives reasonable performance of 30-150MIPS with lots of MCU
> peripherals. The dsPIC and the TI are the ones I am aware of so far.
>
> I spent some time lately looking at the dsPIC again, and despite my
> wanting to avoid Microchip and their klunky architectures, I have to
> admit this chip seems dsPICable, er, I mean pretty nice. But the darned
> thing appears to be vaporware!
>
> Anyway, I will be attending a 1-day workshop with TI on the TMS320F2812,
> and getting a development kit.
>
> As for Microchip, I guess we'll just have to wait.
>
> Any other recommendations for MCU-like DSPs and DSP-like MCUs? I don't
> really like the idea of going to Motorola, since I have heard their
> tools are a headache (needing to but a different tool for each chip) and
> I never know if their chips are going to be discontinued tomorrow.
> Other than those objections, I do know they have some nice DSP/controllers.
>
> Another idea I suppose for the 30-150 MIPS range might be ARM, since I
> know it has some MACs and stuff like that. Haven't really researched
> ARM much yet.
>
> I sure hope the market drives the production of more of these hybrid
> DSP/MCU type chips in the future.
>
> Thanks for comments.
>
>
> Good day!
I can't speak for many of the others, but we are developing a few
boards with the TI 2812 right now.
TI did a really good job taking the very traditional DSP instruction
set of their 24xx series and not just extending it, but turning it
into pretty good 16/32 bit RISC implementation. Unlike most DSPs, the
instruction set is very friendly to general purpose coding, and the
Code Composer Studio version for the 28xx generates excellent code for
it.
Just as an example, the 24xx parts had a bank of 16-bit auxiliary
register file, AR0 through AR7. They were very awkward to use in that
family, as you needed to set the ARP (Auxiliary Register Pointer
register) to specify the register you wanted to access, then you could
access it.
In the 28xx family, they not only extended the auxiliary registers to
32 bits (or they can still be used as 16 bits), but they made them
directly addressable. When you run the chip in its native 28xx mode,
the ARP is a useless and unneeded appendix, only there if you want to
run code from the older processors in 24xx execution mode.
The only "gotcha" that any reasonably experienced programmer would
need to be aware of when writing C or C++ code for these parts is the
lack of an 8-bit data type. The character types all have 16 bits.
--
Jack Klein
Home: http://JK-Technology.Com
FAQs for
comp.lang.c http://www.eskimo.com/~scs/C-faq/top.html
comp.lang.c++ http://www.parashift.com/c++-faq-lite/
alt.comp.lang.learn.c-c++
http://www.contrib.andrew.cmu.edu/~ajo/docs/FAQ-acllc.html
Reply by Earl Bollinger●March 25, 20042004-03-25
The Motorola DSP56F80x series works good.
But maybe it is a little slow at 80mhz for you. Plus it's only a 16 bit DSP
chip.
I like the ones from www.newmicros.com as they come with ISOMAX(tm) and
FORTH built in for ease of use.
It's fun to not have to use a JTAG programmer unless you need it.
But there is also Metrowerks Code warrior, an assembler and a free Small C
compiler too. I think someone else has a C compiler too for it.
I like the chip for all the timers that it has and all the PWM channels you
can get going for motion control etc.
"Chris Carlen" <crobc@BOGUS_FIELD.earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:c3tmh902tn1@enews2.newsguy.com...
> Hi:
>
> I'm looking for DSP-like microcontrollers and microcontroller-like DSPs.
>
> So far I am interested in TMS320F2812, but it is a bit heavy handed for
> some applications I would be considering.
>
> I had decided to move away from Microchip a few years ago and instead
> standardize on AVR for my 8-bit MCU of choice, mainly because of avr-gcc
> and the AVR architecture is much more pleasant to work with. My
> applications are ease of use and tool cost conscious more than anything,
> so I don't mind the slightly higher price of AVRs.
>
> But I will be needing some DSP capabilities. I would like to find a CPU
> that gives reasonable performance of 30-150MIPS with lots of MCU
> peripherals. The dsPIC and the TI are the ones I am aware of so far.
>
> I spent some time lately looking at the dsPIC again, and despite my
> wanting to avoid Microchip and their klunky architectures, I have to
> admit this chip seems dsPICable, er, I mean pretty nice. But the darned
> thing appears to be vaporware!
>
> Anyway, I will be attending a 1-day workshop with TI on the TMS320F2812,
> and getting a development kit.
>
> As for Microchip, I guess we'll just have to wait.
>
> Any other recommendations for MCU-like DSPs and DSP-like MCUs? I don't
> really like the idea of going to Motorola, since I have heard their
> tools are a headache (needing to but a different tool for each chip) and
> I never know if their chips are going to be discontinued tomorrow.
> Other than those objections, I do know they have some nice
DSP/controllers.
>
> Another idea I suppose for the 30-150 MIPS range might be ARM, since I
> know it has some MACs and stuff like that. Haven't really researched
> ARM much yet.
>
> I sure hope the market drives the production of more of these hybrid
> DSP/MCU type chips in the future.
>
> Thanks for comments.
>
>
> Good day!
>
>
>
> --
> _____________________
> Christopher R. Carlen
> crobc@earthlink.net
> Suse 8.1 Linux 2.4.19
>
Reply by Ulf Samuelsson●March 25, 20042004-03-25
"Chris Carlen" <crobc@BOGUS_FIELD.earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:c3tmh902tn1@enews2.newsguy.com...
> Hi:
>
> I'm looking for DSP-like microcontrollers and microcontroller-like DSPs.
>
Yoiu can get ARM chips with built in DSP.
The Magic DSP core on the Atmel Diopsys chip will give you a GigaFlop
or so when it comes out.
The ARM7 core is on the chip mainly there to admire its bigger companion
:-).
The AT76C221 gives you like 40-60 MIPS using the on chip Oak DSP.
--
Best Regards
Ulf at atmel dot com
These comments are intended to be my own opinion and they
may, or may not be shared by my employer, Atmel Sweden.