On 2013-07-20, George Neuner <gneuner2@comcast.net> wrote:
> On Fri, 19 Jul 2013 14:23:41 +0000 (UTC), Grant Edwards
><invalid@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>
>>Network == Internet == WWW
>>
>>;)
>
> Winking smiley aside, those terms are not synonymous.
>
> George
The smiley is the whole point. :-)
There's a depressing number of people who should know better who think
the above statement is true.
Simon.
--
Simon Clubley, clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP
Microsoft: Bringing you 1980s technology to a 21st century world
Reply by George Neuner●July 20, 20132013-07-20
On Fri, 19 Jul 2013 14:23:41 +0000 (UTC), Grant Edwards
<invalid@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>Network == Internet == WWW
>
>;)
Winking smiley aside, those terms are not synonymous.
George
>"gopal_amlekar" wrote:
>
>>... If ... the customer wants to operate the
>>device from the tablet / mobile from somewhere remotely in the world, then
>>there is no choice but to have a small embedded web server connected to
>>your device...
>
>Although an embedded web server may be the right approach for this
>case, I don't see the logic behind "need network access from far, far
>away" implies "there must be a web server."
Certainly not, but having the management app HTTP based eliminates the
need to install code on the "far, far away" device. Which is a
massive advantage. No distribution, no versioning, no installation
security issues, no network security issues (or at least getting HTTP
through firewalls is usually much easier than a custom protocol), no
platform issues (a slight exaggeration, but "(almost) anything with a
web browser" is a pretty broad choice of platforms), no managing a
separate code base...
Of course it's not the appropriate solution in all cases, but it
should probably be the first choice in most situations.
TELNET based management would have similar advantages, although would
require the user to install a TELNET app in some cases (but not
something you'd have to manage). That also makes it easy to avoid
networking at all if you put a serial port on your device. Of course
you've largely ruled out a GUI then.
Reply by Grant Edwards●July 19, 20132013-07-19
On 2013-07-19, Roberto Waltman <usenet@rwaltman.com> wrote:
> "gopal_amlekar" wrote:
>
>>... If ... the customer wants to operate the
>>device from the tablet / mobile from somewhere remotely in the world, then
>>there is no choice but to have a small embedded web server connected to
>>your device...
>
> Although an embedded web server may be the right approach for this
> case, I don't see the logic behind "need network access from far, far
> away" implies "there must be a web server."
You silly person.
Network == Internet == WWW
;)
--
Grant Edwards grant.b.edwards Yow! But they went to MARS
at around 1953!!
gmail.com
Reply by Roberto Waltman●July 19, 20132013-07-19
"gopal_amlekar" wrote:
>... If ... the customer wants to operate the
>device from the tablet / mobile from somewhere remotely in the world, then
>there is no choice but to have a small embedded web server connected to
>your device...
Although an embedded web server may be the right approach for this
case, I don't see the logic behind "need network access from far, far
away" implies "there must be a web server."
--
Roberto Waltman
[ Please reply to the group,
return address is invalid ]
Reply by gopal_amlekar●July 16, 20132013-07-16
>I'm looking for some ideas or suggestions here.
>
>We have an embedded system based around a small microcontroller (an AVR
>XMega, IIRC), connected to a PC using an FTDI chip and a USB cable, with
>a little PC program to control and monitor the embedded system. This
>all works fine.
>
>The customer would like to know if they can use tablets (Android or iPad
>- and maybe Android and iPad telephones too) to control the system
>instead of a PC or laptop.
>
>Although I haven't done any Android app development, I've got some
>reasonable ideas about how to get started. I know even less about iPad
>development, except that it is more challenging to deal with (especially
>as we don't have any Macs). However, we can always outsource the actual
>app development to other companies if need be.
>
>The big challenge is to communicate between the tablet and the embedded
>system. Ideas include:
>
>Use the existing USB connection. That would be the cheapest and
>easiest, but most tablets don't have a USB port, and I don't think we
>could use the FTDI chip anyway.
>
>If we always had internet available, the card could have an Ethernet
>port and connect to an external server, and the tablet could connect to
>the external server. But customers don't always have internet
>connections where this system would be used.
>
>We could put Wifi on the board, and use that between the board and the
>tablet. But there is not always Wifi available, and when there is there
>may not be access between nodes on the network. And even then there is
>the question of getting SSIDs, passwords, etc., into the board.
>
>We could try Bluetooth - but I am not sure that an app can get the kind
>of direct access to a Bluetooth device that would be needed here.
>
>
>I can't be the first person to be considering this situation, so I hope
>that other people have ideas or suggestions.
>
>Thanks,
>
>David
>
>
One main question here is that does the person holding tablet move away
from your device? How far? If for e.g. the customer wants to operate the
device from the tablet / mobile from somewhere remotely in the world, then
there is no choice but to have a small embedded web server connected to
your device and then access it from the tablet.
If you need only a short range solution, then you can think of wired USB
connection as others have stated already, bluetooth, or even TCP/IP.
If you use USB with FTDI chips as it is, then, remember that you need USB
host or UTG support on the tablet side, which very few devices have as of
now (at least as I know). More so, the USB host / OTG support is not
included in Android versions below 4.0 I guess. I am not aware of the USB
host support with ipad / iphones yet.
But the advantage here is you need not make any addition to your device.
You can connect the same USB cable which you connect to PC, to the android
tablet / phone.
For bluetooth, you will need a bluetooth modem on the device side.
Similarly you can go for an embedded web server connected to your device.
Have that server talk to your device and then interface to the server from
tablet. Some sort of ethernet connection and a wi-fi router is must for
this configuration so the android tablet will connect to the device via
this router. This way, even if the customer is remote, if he can make the
IP address of the device web server a static and public one, he can get
access to the device, a big plus point.
App development on android may be slightly easier to get started with than
iPhone. You can develop an android app on any PC (windows / linux / mac)
and even try on the android device without any payment needed to google. If
you need to publish the app on Google play, then some 25 USD fees is
required.
For iPhone, you need a macbook, an apple developer account (paying 99 USD
per year) and of course an iphone / ipad to try the apps.
Of course, you can outsource it to app developers.
Hope this helps.
---------------------------------------
Posted through http://www.EmbeddedRelated.com
Simon Clubley <clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-earth.ufp> wrote:
> Interesting; I didn't realise that. I went and did some reading:
>
> http://www.embeddedartists.com/products/app/aoa_kit.php
>
> and (judging by the way the specification is worded) it seems it was
> designed back in the days when USB host didn't exist on Android tablets.
I'm trying to work out how it works, but I can't quite.
IME Android USB support is a bit of a hotpotch:
Some devices only support USB device, in hardware
Some only have kernel modules supplied for USB device, even if the hardware
will do OTG
Some have wierd connectors
Some are only set up to do MTP or PTP rather than be USB mass storage
devices (kernel modules again)
Some have modules in host mode for keyboards, mice, storage etc etc but
it depends what the vendor has compiled
Essentially they can be hobbled in a dozen different ways. Most of the
limitations are simply that the relevant bits weren't compiled in (eg Google
wants you to use the cloud, so disables USB mass storage support). But I do
wonder how the above device managed to navigate this minefield. Unless they
just picked a method that worked at the time, and may not do on all current
devices.
Ah:
http://developer.android.com/guide/topics/connectivity/usb/accessory.html
I wonder if they actually work in the $100 devices...
Theo
Reply by Les Cargill●July 7, 20132013-07-07
David Brown wrote:
> I'm looking for some ideas or suggestions here.
>
<snip>
>
> We could put Wifi on the board, and use that between the board and the
> tablet. But there is not always Wifi available, and when there is there
> may not be access between nodes on the network. And even then there is
> the question of getting SSIDs, passwords, etc., into the board.
>
Providing instructions for incorporating an inexpensive WAP seems
simple enough.
You may not need to do full wifi - you may be able to do USB to ethernet
conversion on the Android side.
http://compare.ebay.com/like/161036296994?var=lv<yp=AllFixedPriceItemTypes&var=sbar
I say "may" because I haven't done it, and there are sometimes
slings and arrows.
this allows you to choose between wired Ethernet and wifi.
> We could try Bluetooth - but I am not sure that an app can get the kind
> of direct access to a Bluetooth device that would be needed here.
>
I would be quite surprised if you could not.
>
> I can't be the first person to be considering this situation, so I hope
> that other people have ideas or suggestions.
>
> Thanks,
>
> David
>
--
Les Cargill
Reply by David Brown●July 7, 20132013-07-07
On 05/07/13 18:36, Simon Clubley wrote:
> On 2013-07-05, antedeluvian <63015@embeddedrelated> wrote:
>>
>> It is my understanding that ALL Android tablets have USB ports. certainly
>> every one I have looked at does have one. Finding the USB driver may be
>> more problematic- I never found one for my el-cheapo Android tablet from
>> the Far East.
>>
>
> No, all Android tablets have USB device support. David would need USB host
> support if he wants a USB connection because he wants to control the device
> from the tablet, and not all tablets, especially the low end ones, have USB
> host support.
>
> Simon.
>
Another thing about Android tablets USB is that they sometimes have
weird connectors. I know mine does.