Den onsdag den 21. maj 2014 18.28.33 UTC+2 skrev Ulf Samuelsson:
> 2014-05-20 22:45, John-Smith skrev:
>
> > What about code and fixed data security?
>
> >
>
> > On chip flash ought to be reasonably good for that. This is not a high
>
> > security application but it would be nice if I could protect the on
>
> > chip stuff from a casual code dump.
>
> >
>
>
>
> On chip flash is of course more secure than off chip flash.
>
> Then again, the extra security is going to be quite expensive.
>
>
>
> There are micros with AES/3DES crypto engines which can be
>
> used to encrypt external data.
>
>
>
> Some of those chips have export restriction,
>
> but the XMEGA does not.
>
>
>
> If you want STM32 witrh M4F (FPU) core, then Digikey only sells maximum
>
> 256 kB versions. Atmel has 512kb/1MB versions.
>
afaict all of the stm32f4xx/stm32f3xx family have FPU, regardless of whether they call them M4 or M4F
digikey has plenty of stm32f4xx upto 2MB
-Lasse
Reply by Randy Yates●May 22, 20142014-05-22
Randy Yates <yates@digitalsignallabs.com> writes:
> David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> writes:
>
>> On 22/05/14 09:37, Anders.Montonen@kapsi.spam.stop.fi.invalid wrote:
>>> Randy Yates <yates@digitalsignallabs.com> wrote:
>>>> Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> writes:
>>>>> Ulf Samuelsson <ulf@notvalid.emagii.com> writes:
>>>>>> If you want STM32 witrh M4F (FPU) core, then Digikey only sells
>>>>>> maximum 256 kB versions. Atmel has 512kb/1MB versions.
>>>>> I think that
>>>>> http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/STM32F407VGT6/497-11605-ND
>>>>> is the part on the STM M4 Discovery board. It has 1M flash, 192k ram,
>>>>> and some crypto acceleration and secure boot IIRC.
>>>> RAM FLASH Clock Temp. Price
>>>> P/N (KB)(KB) MAC PHY Crypto UARTS CAN I2C ADC (MHz) Range (USD)
>>>> http://tinyurl.com/oakwg9t MK60FN1M0VLQ12 256 1024 y y y 6 2 2 4 16-bit 120 -40 to 105 6.69 (10KU)
>>>>
>>>> http://www.newark.com/freescale-semiconductor/mk60fn1m0vlq12/mcu-32bit-cortex-m4-120mhz-lqfp/dp/89T6229
>>>
>>> Might be worth pointing out that the Kinetis parts don't have
>>> hardware floating point (ie. Cortex-M4 as opposed to Cortex-M4F).
>>>
>>
>> Some of the Kinetis parts have floating point, some don't. As far as I
>> can see, all the Kinetis at 120 MHz and above have floating point, while
>> those at 100 MHz and below do not. In particular, the MK60FN1M0VLQ12
>> linked above has hardware floating point - that's what the "F" after the
>> MK60 means.
>
> Right. This looks like a damn fine part to me - I recently recommended
> it in a proposal. It is cheaper than than TI's Sitara AM335x and has
> crypto.
> On 22/05/14 09:37, Anders.Montonen@kapsi.spam.stop.fi.invalid wrote:
>> Randy Yates <yates@digitalsignallabs.com> wrote:
>>> Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> writes:
>>>> Ulf Samuelsson <ulf@notvalid.emagii.com> writes:
>>>>> If you want STM32 witrh M4F (FPU) core, then Digikey only sells
>>>>> maximum 256 kB versions. Atmel has 512kb/1MB versions.
>>>> I think that
>>>> http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/STM32F407VGT6/497-11605-ND
>>>> is the part on the STM M4 Discovery board. It has 1M flash, 192k ram,
>>>> and some crypto acceleration and secure boot IIRC.
>>> RAM FLASH Clock Temp. Price
>>> P/N (KB)(KB) MAC PHY Crypto UARTS CAN I2C ADC (MHz) Range (USD)
>>> http://tinyurl.com/oakwg9t MK60FN1M0VLQ12 256 1024 y y y 6 2 2 4 16-bit 120 -40 to 105 6.69 (10KU)
>>>
>>> http://www.newark.com/freescale-semiconductor/mk60fn1m0vlq12/mcu-32bit-cortex-m4-120mhz-lqfp/dp/89T6229
>>
>> Might be worth pointing out that the Kinetis parts don't have
>> hardware floating point (ie. Cortex-M4 as opposed to Cortex-M4F).
>>
>
> Some of the Kinetis parts have floating point, some don't. As far as I
> can see, all the Kinetis at 120 MHz and above have floating point, while
> those at 100 MHz and below do not. In particular, the MK60FN1M0VLQ12
> linked above has hardware floating point - that's what the "F" after the
> MK60 means.
Right. This looks like a damn fine part to me - I recently recommended
it in a proposal. It is cheaper than than TI's Sitara AM335x and has
crypto.
--
Randy Yates
Digital Signal Labs
http://www.digitalsignallabs.com
Reply by Boudewijn Dijkstra●May 22, 20142014-05-22
Op Tue, 20 May 2014 22:42:34 +0200 schreef John-Smith
<noospam@noospam.com>:
> "Boudewijn Dijkstra" <sp4mtr4p.boudewijn@indes.com> wrote
>
>>> IAR
>>> compilers used to be good but they did contain some really bad details
>>> e.g. an incredibly slow sscanf() where they were doing multiple
>>> floating point ops for every single input digit.
>>
>> I'm curious which target processor and which version that was, but
>> AFAICS
>> recent libs don't use floating point math when dealing with integers and
>> you can choose between different printf/scanf formatter features.
>
> It was their Z80/Z180 compiler.
>
> In that case we were using sscanf() to parse strings like 123.45 into
> 32-bit floats. The code was profiled with a real hardware ICE (those
> were the days!) and we found it was spending ~99% of its time in the
> function, which was doing a float add and a float mult (by 10!) for
> every digit.
That sounds pretty horrible, but typical of the time. Nowadays multiple
digits are collected in integers and then converted one word at a time.
--
(Remove the obvious prefix to reply privately.)
Gemaakt met Opera's e-mailprogramma: http://www.opera.com/mail/
Reply by David Brown●May 22, 20142014-05-22
On 22/05/14 09:37, Anders.Montonen@kapsi.spam.stop.fi.invalid wrote:
> Randy Yates <yates@digitalsignallabs.com> wrote:
>> Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> writes:
>>> Ulf Samuelsson <ulf@notvalid.emagii.com> writes:
>>>> If you want STM32 witrh M4F (FPU) core, then Digikey only sells
>>>> maximum 256 kB versions. Atmel has 512kb/1MB versions.
>>> I think that
>>> http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/STM32F407VGT6/497-11605-ND
>>> is the part on the STM M4 Discovery board. It has 1M flash, 192k ram,
>>> and some crypto acceleration and secure boot IIRC.
>> RAM FLASH Clock Temp. Price
>> P/N (KB)(KB) MAC PHY Crypto UARTS CAN I2C ADC (MHz) Range (USD)
>> http://tinyurl.com/oakwg9t MK60FN1M0VLQ12 256 1024 y y y 6 2 2 4 16-bit 120 -40 to 105 6.69 (10KU)
>>
>> http://www.newark.com/freescale-semiconductor/mk60fn1m0vlq12/mcu-32bit-cortex-m4-120mhz-lqfp/dp/89T6229
>
> Might be worth pointing out that the Kinetis parts don't have
> hardware floating point (ie. Cortex-M4 as opposed to Cortex-M4F).
>
Some of the Kinetis parts have floating point, some don't. As far as I
can see, all the Kinetis at 120 MHz and above have floating point, while
those at 100 MHz and below do not. In particular, the MK60FN1M0VLQ12
linked above has hardware floating point - that's what the "F" after the
MK60 means.
Reply by John-Smith●May 22, 20142014-05-22
John Devereux <john@devereux.me.uk> wrote
>Hi Ulf,
>
>Trouble with dataflash is that Atmel sold the product line to a company
>whose fab went bust -> instant unobtainium. How do I know this I hear
>you all ask... :(
>
>I don't think they have any significant advantages over normal modern
>SPI flash anyway, just twice the price and vendor-lockin to a
>non-existent product.
Great!
Anyway, I can do all I need with 1MB on chip flash.
It needs to be secure enough that somebody can't just read it straight
out. Presumably that must be possible - even the little micros have
such a mode.
Might be worth pointing out that the Kinetis parts don't have
hardware floating point (ie. Cortex-M4 as opposed to Cortex-M4F).
-a
Reply by Randy Yates●May 21, 20142014-05-21
Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> writes:
> Ulf Samuelsson <ulf@notvalid.emagii.com> writes:
>> If you want STM32 witrh M4F (FPU) core, then Digikey only sells
>> maximum 256 kB versions. Atmel has 512kb/1MB versions.
>
> I think that
>
> http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/STM32F407VGT6/497-11605-ND
>
> is the part on the STM M4 Discovery board. It has 1M flash, 192k ram,
> and some crypto acceleration and secure boot IIRC.
>>
>> I' be very interested in hearing peoples' views on this. I really want
>> a 10 year life of the actual device.
>>
>
>
> Hi John,
> As a former Atmel FAE, I can give you a little info on the Atmel part.
>
> As for longevity, the AT91M40800 was released in 1997-8, and is still
> in production.̈́ (Actually this was the AT9140400, but they added
> an additional 4 kB of RAM)
> The ARM devices has had much longer life time than the AVRs.
> This is mostly because Atmel has released pincompatible AVR devices
> with more features, and when those are in production, the older
> devices has been obsoleted. This philosophy has been changed
> a couple of years ago, so expect longer lifetime even on AVRs.
>
> I would still expect longer lifetime on ARMs still.
>
> With Atmel, you have the gcc based Atmel Studio, which is free of charge
> and supports both AVR, AVR32 and ARM. This is more like Visual Studio
> than Eclipse. They connect to low cost JTAG-ICE or SAM-ICE which is
> a lower priced version of the Segger J-Link used by IAR.
> The low price is good, but they will only work with Atmel parts,
> and when Atmel releases a new part, you will have to update
> the firmware.
>
> If you need floating point, then the AVR32 UC3C is quite nice
> due to its internal floating point unit. There are some SAM4's with
> floating point unit as well.
>
> Both the SAM4s and the AVR32s has I2S support, and each I2S is
> connected to dual buffered DMA both on transmit and receive sides.
> You should have ZERO problem maintaining 100 kbps on I2S.
>
> Also each serial port is connected to dual buffered DMA controllers
> in each direction, with some nice additions like idle detection.
>
> You can easily run the serial ports at megabit speed without problems.
>
> Flash is generally quite expensive while onchip, and an external
> dataflash or SPI flash will be quite small, and much cheaper.
Hi Ulf,
Trouble with dataflash is that Atmel sold the product line to a company
whose fab went bust -> instant unobtainium. How do I know this I hear
you all ask... :(
I don't think they have any significant advantages over normal modern
SPI flash anyway, just twice the price and vendor-lockin to a
non-existent product.
--
John Devereux