>> A customer wants both apps in 2 weeks. Gee, i can barely do Android in
> two=
>> weeks. iOS is completely new to me. I can run ADK on Linux. Are there
> i=
>> OS tools available on Linux? How about Android Java to iOS obj C
> translato=
>> r? Any good tools i can pickup in less than 2 weeks?
>>
>> I keep telling them i cannot do iOS in two weeks, but they are tempting me
> =
>> with big checks. Perhaps enough to buy iMac, iPhone and iPad all
> together.=
>> But i don't want to learn iAnything. I would like to stick to Linux if
> p=
>> ossible.
>>
>>
> Although I agree with the consensus that you would be nuts to try to do
> this, I thought I should mention Cordova (http://cordova.apache.org/) which
> allows you to program in JavaScript and then generate the code for
> iOS/Android/Windows etc. I have only heard of this- I cannot vouch for it.
>
>
> ---------------------------------------
> Posted through http://www.EmbeddedRelated.com
>
I managed to write two Cordova-based apps for Android from scratch,
knowing nothing of Java, Android etc. Basically, the application is a
web page and a chunk of Javascript does the work.
If you want to use the Bluetooth LE stack, start with the Evothings
environment. This is basically a framework for building your app
interactively from a PC with a prebuilt runtime environment (the
Evothing client) running on the Android tablet. Once your get that
working you can turn your Evothings project into a Cordova one and build
an installable package. Then your app can be built for Android and IOS
without any changes (well that's the theory!). Get the Evothings stuff
first - source code for lots of example Bluetooth apps.
good luck!
Mike
Reply by antedeluvian●October 29, 20142014-10-29
>A customer wants both apps in 2 weeks. Gee, i can barely do Android in
two=
> weeks. iOS is completely new to me. I can run ADK on Linux. Are there
i=
>OS tools available on Linux? How about Android Java to iOS obj C
translato=
>r? Any good tools i can pickup in less than 2 weeks?
>
>I keep telling them i cannot do iOS in two weeks, but they are tempting me
=
>with big checks. Perhaps enough to buy iMac, iPhone and iPad all
together.=
> But i don't want to learn iAnything. I would like to stick to Linux if
p=
>ossible.
>
>
Although I agree with the consensus that you would be nuts to try to do
this, I thought I should mention Cordova (http://cordova.apache.org/) which
allows you to program in JavaScript and then generate the code for
iOS/Android/Windows etc. I have only heard of this- I cannot vouch for it.
---------------------------------------
Posted through http://www.EmbeddedRelated.com
Reply by Paul Rubin●October 27, 20142014-10-27
edward.ming.lee@gmail.com writes:
> I keep telling them i cannot do iOS in two weeks, but they are
> tempting me with big checks. Perhaps enough to buy iMac, iPhone and
> iPad all together.
As others explained, you really do have to turn it down. And that check
doesn't sound anywhere near big enough for 2 weeks of that level of
intense development on a consultant basis. It might be more interesting
if iCar was added to the list, if there was such a thing.
Reply by Tom Gardner●October 27, 20142014-10-27
On 27/10/14 20:13, edward.ming.lee@gmail.com wrote:
> Any reasonable client would understand that you can't build an app in two weeks. They understand it too, but they are just hoping for miracle.
In which case they are unreasonable clients. Such clients sometimes
use lawyers to "prove" (to themselves or others) that "I was on the
right track, but the contractor fouled up and let me/us down".
I'd politely decline the work. If you think they are actually
potentially reasonable clients, you could indicate your answer
might be different in other circumstances.
Reply by ●October 27, 20142014-10-27
> > Bluetooth has been there for audio for a long time, but not for socket API. For Android, it started with 4.3. So, not many people have worked on it and i am not even sure how usable it is. Part of the reason i am taking this job is also my desire to find out if it will really work.
>
> So, your assumptions are that the job exceeds 2 "weeks" of effort (however you define that). And, the upper bound must be "considerably more than you are willing to INVEST in *yourself* (by undertaking a similar task to learn about the functionality in question in a SAFER environment).
Considering BlueTooth socket API by itself could take two weeks, and multiple graphical activities/views with screen switchings. I would say at least two months, if not longer.
> If you are only willing to learn on someone else's dime, then ask yourself what that learning experience is WORTH to you (in currency units) and then imagine what it may end up COSTING you if you decide to learn on *this* client's dime.
I am not a total newbie in Android, so I am charging them fractional cost of development. We are bounded to have some new things to learn in any job. This should not be a negative factor, but the two weeks time limit is. I think they have some live presentation of the software that have not been written. That's their problem, not mine.
> Personally, this just has the smell of A Really Bad Experience for all parties involved (possibly even irreparably damaging your reputation with this client and any other clients whose ears he may have!)
Any reasonable client would understand that you can't build an app in two weeks. They understand it too, but they are just hoping for miracle.
> Buy a demo kit from <someone> and tinker with it in your off hours. *NEXT*
> time, you'll be better qualified to prepare a more specific estimate of the
> time/effort required with far less legal/professional "exposure".
I think i have the hardware needed. But Android Lollipop (5.0) now wants 64bits Linux KVM, and Eclipse is to be depreciated soon. It's hard to keep up with the Googles.
Reply by Don Y●October 27, 20142014-10-27
On 10/27/2014 2:01 AM, Tom Gardner wrote:
> On 27/10/14 02:08, edward.ming.lee@gmail.com wrote:
>>
>>> Putting aside the fact that my impression is that Android phones and iCrap
>>> have both had Bluetooth for just about ever, this is the sort of thing that
>>> I'd only do for a customer if it was understood -- in writing, in the
>>> contract -- that I'm doing exploration, and that I get paid by hour of
>>> effort, not by line item of success.
>>
>> Bluetooth has been there for audio for a long time, but not for socket API.
>> For Android, it started with 4.3. So, not many people have worked on it and
>> i am not even sure how usable it is. Part of the reason i am taking this job
>> is also my desire to find out if it will really work.
>
> Curiosity is admirable, but not if money, reputation
> and lawyers are involved.
+1
The hardest thing for "contractors" (ditto "potential employees") to do is
walk away from a sale. Especially if it looks like you've got a LOCK on it!
(the same thing applies to designs!)
Several years ago, I "no bid" a contract that would EASILY have turned
into a long term "consulting gig" (i.e., many years of guaranteed income).
Mainly, because I knew the customer was being unrealistic in his expectations,
didn't understand what he wanted (*SO* many red flags, there!) and would,
inevitably, have been put in the hot seat by board members who knew even LESS
about what he wanted.
"Shit rolls downhill"
No amount of money/security is worth that sort of grief!
[In the time that has passed, the project NEVER got finished and that VP was
given his walking papers -- despite (or, perhaps, BECAUSE of) a boatload of
money being thrown at it! Amusingly, I am in exactly the same situation
with another potential job at the present time. Same temptations. But,
far less inclination to "nibble"! :> ]
Reply by Don Y●October 27, 20142014-10-27
On 10/26/2014 7:08 PM, edward.ming.lee@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> Putting aside the fact that my impression is that Android phones and iCrap
>> have both had Bluetooth for just about ever, this is the sort of thing
>> that I'd only do for a customer if it was understood -- in writing, in the
>> contract -- that I'm doing exploration, and that I get paid by hour of
>> effort, not by line item of success.
>
> Bluetooth has been there for audio for a long time, but not for socket API.
> For Android, it started with 4.3. So, not many people have worked on it and
> i am not even sure how usable it is. Part of the reason i am taking this
> job is also my desire to find out if it will really work.
So, your assumptions are that the job exceeds 2 "weeks" of effort (however
you define that). And, the upper bound must be "considerably more than you
are willing to INVEST in *yourself* (by undertaking a similar task to learn
about the functionality in question in a SAFER environment).
If you are only willing to learn on someone else's dime, then ask yourself
what that learning experience is WORTH to you (in currency units) and then
imagine what it may end up COSTING you if you decide to learn on *this*
client's dime.
Personally, this just has the smell of A Really Bad Experience for all parties
involved (possibly even irreparably damaging your reputation with this client
and any other clients whose ears he may have!)
Buy a demo kit from <someone> and tinker with it in your off hours. *NEXT*
time, you'll be better qualified to prepare a more specific estimate of the
time/effort required with far less legal/professional "exposure".
Reply by Tom Gardner●October 27, 20142014-10-27
On 27/10/14 02:08, edward.ming.lee@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> Putting aside the fact that my impression is that Android phones and iCrap have both had Bluetooth for just about ever, this is the sort of thing that I'd only do for a customer if it was understood -- in writing, in the contract -- that I'm doing exploration, and that I get paid by hour of effort, not by line item of success.
>
> Bluetooth has been there for audio for a long time, but not for socket API. For Android, it started with 4.3. So, not many people have worked on it and i am not even sure how usable it is. Part of the reason i am taking this job is also my desire to find out if it will really work.
Curiosity is admirable, but not if money, reputation
and lawyers are involved.
To try determine whether this is a person you want to
have as a client in the long-term, could you spin it as...
... thank you for trusting my technical expertise
and judgement ...
... the biggest risk to your business plan is that
technology X is new and unproven ...
... to minimise your expenditure, I suggest we de-risk
technology X, and then make a reasoned go/nogo decision ...
... cheaply and speedily achieved by giving me a contract
for 1 week to investigate. If OK, then it is money
well-spent on a good foundation for the remaining work.
If not OK then you haven't lost much and can move onto your
next idea/plan ...
Reply by ●October 26, 20142014-10-26
> Putting aside the fact that my impression is that Android phones and iCrap have both had Bluetooth for just about ever, this is the sort of thing that I'd only do for a customer if it was understood -- in writing, in the contract -- that I'm doing exploration, and that I get paid by hour of effort, not by line item of success.
Bluetooth has been there for audio for a long time, but not for socket API. For Android, it started with 4.3. So, not many people have worked on it and i am not even sure how usable it is. Part of the reason i am taking this job is also my desire to find out if it will really work.
Reply by Don Y●October 26, 20142014-10-26
On 10/26/2014 4:52 PM, Tim Wescott wrote:
>>> I already told them i can't do iOS within such short time. I tried
>>> getting them an iOS developer. But many cookie cutter iOS developer
>>> can't really do it in such a short time either. As we discussed here
>>> before, Android/iOS BlueTooth is relatively new. It would take lots of
>>> readings, trials and errors.
>>
>> *THEY* want to make THEIR problem, YOUR problem. Then, they can hound
>> you as to why it's not done yet, why you are late, why it doesn't work,
>> etc.
>>
>> If they were responsible business people, they would want to "set you up
>> to SUCCEED", not FAIL! I.e., if you've told them "I can't do it", they
>> would WANT to find another "supplier" instead of just trying to offload
>> their problem onto your shoulders...
>
> I'm not sure they're that cynical. They may just be desperate, having
> been told by multiple vendors that it can't be done, and they're trying in
> some clumsy way to enable Edward to be their vendor of choice.
I'm not claiming they're cynical or predatorial. Rather, THEIR tit is
in the wringer. They'd much rather it be *yours* and will do/say a lot
of irrational things to make that happen:
"Yeah, it's OK if that feature isn't present, initially"
"Sure, we don't mind if you have to scrap everything and do it ALL
over, later, FOR REAL"
"We just want something that LOOKS like it works for a dog-and-pony"
etc.
Later, they forget these "deals with the devil" and are stunned when
you claim "finishing the job" will require starting over (etc.)
This is especially frustrating when it is the result of a long
process during which you have been raising these red flags -- only
to have them dismissed, trivially. Until, of course, they all
come home to roost and *you* are The Bad Guy (written correspondence
can give you the high MORAL ground... but the relationship is shot,
regardless!)