On Fri, 22 May 2015 08:41:24 +0200, David Brown wrote:
> the state of the battery, and the charge from the alternator. To be
> safe for use in a 24V truck system, you need to accept ranges from 18V
> to 36V, and be ready for a lot of high spikes (such as when using the
> starter motor).
And by 'ready for a lot' we mean 'load-dump-resistant', i.e. able to
survive 120V for 400 ms
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Load_dump
"Load dump" resistance is an official requirement for car electronics
because it can occur with an intermittent battery connection while the
alternator is charging it at a maximum rate.
Reply by ●May 24, 20152015-05-24
On Sat, 23 May 2015 08:17:17 +0200, pozz <pozzugno@gmail.com> wrote:
That seems to have only line-out but not line-in as you required.
It is strange that no IP class was given for that box, but I guess
that it would be sufficient to survive in the cabin.
Standard connectors are used, so unused connectors should have dummy
plugs to protect against dust. The USB connectors do not have any
strong locking, so unless the cables are well supported, the plugs
might fall out. The RJ-45 locking is not very reliable in such
environment.
No power consumption was given in that manual, neither for active
state nor low power modes. Unless the computer is powered down by the
ignition switch, forgetting the computer on for the weekend and the
battery might be drained, if the active consumption is high. However,
the heat sink finns are quite flimsy, so the power consumption can't
be too high at the rated +50 C temperature.
In-vechile computers can be quite expensive, sometimes in the $1000 to
$2000 range.
Reply by rickman●May 23, 20152015-05-23
On 5/23/2015 2:17 AM, pozz wrote:
> Il 22/05/2015 17:31, rickman ha scritto:
>> On 5/22/2015 10:54 AM, pozz wrote:
>>> Il 22/05/2015 09:37, upsidedown@downunder.com ha scritto:
>>>> On Wed, 20 May 2015 23:26:10 +0200, pozz <pozzugno@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I'm searching for an embedded hardware that should run Linux OS on a
>>>>> vehicle. I don't need special features:
>>>>
>>>> For vehicle mounted system, you need to consider at least
>>>>
>>>> * Vibration, check for PCB and connector support
>>>>
>>>> * Dust
>>>>
>>>> * Temperature range, does the clock oscillator start at -40 C. How
>>>> does it handle temperatures much above +50 C when the vehicle is
>>>> parked in the sun ?
>>>>
>>>> * Condensation: do you need coated PCBs, how is moisture drained out
>>>> of the box
>>>>
>>>> * Input voltage protection
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> - VDC in
>>>>> - RS232 port (not USB adapter)
>>>>> - Ethernet
>>>>> - SSD or soldered Flash (just to avoid magnetic HDD)
>>>>> - analog audio input and output
>>>>>
>>>>> I prefer a board with ready connectors, such as a PC desktop
>>>>> motherboard. I don't want to develop and produce a baseboard.
>>>>>
>>>>> It should be nice to have a suitable case too for installation in a
>>>>> vehicle.
>>>>>
>>>>> Maybe someone can suggest a good automotive DC/DC power supply that
>>>>> regulates the 24Vdc battery voltage of the vehicle in, most
>>>>> probably, a
>>>>> 12Vdc for supplying the embedded computer.
>>>>
>>>> Starting a big cold diesel may cause a severe drop of the battery
>>>> voltage. I would suggest after the input voltage filtration a series
>>>> diode, a _big_ electrolytic capacitor rated at 35 V and specified for
>>>> high temperatures.
>>>>
>>>> After that a DC/DC converter to 5 V or whatever the PCB needs. Check
>>>> that the converter minimum voltage is low (say 8..12 V) so that it can
>>>> fully utilize the energy stored in the capacitor.
>>>>
>>>> The smaller the PCB current consumption, the longer the capacitor
>>>> charge will last or you can use a smaller capacitor. A
>>>> small power consumption will also help in cooling the system at high
>>>> temperatures.
>>>>
>>>> In addition to engine start voltage drops, this diode, capacitor,
>>>> converter circuit also makes it easy to perform an orderly shutdown in
>>>> case the main +24 V is lost. Of course, you need a direct, filtered
>>>> feed from the 24 V supply line to start the shutdown sequence to save
>>>> files etc.
>>>
>>> Infact, I need a ready-to-use solution. One that includes a suitable
>>> power supply, mainboard, connectors and so on.
>>
>> I think that is going to be hard to find. The power supply should not
>> be a big deal. Finding one with a shutdown signal shouldn't be too
>> hard. But finding all this bundled up in one unit will be a bit tough.
>
> There are many companies that have in-vehicle embedded PC with this type
> of requirements. For example, AEV-6312 from AAEON.
> Here the manual.
>
> ftp://data.aaeon.com.tw/DOWNLOAD/MANUAL/AEV-6312%20Manual%202nd%20Ed.pdf
>
> The PSU is compatible with in-vehicle battery and provides an ACC input
> signal for automatic power-on/shutdown. It is compatible with 12V and
> 24V systems. I don't know if it is able to support high voltage spikes
> during engine starting.
>
> There is also some specific in-vehicle PSUs, for example this one:
>
> http://www.mini-box.com/M2-ATX-160w-Intelligent-Automotive-DC-DC-Power-Supply?sc=8&category=13
>
>
> It is compatible with 12V systems only, but it provides everything we
> need (at least, on the written specification). The output is ATX
> compatible.
I'm unclear. What about your requirements have you not found?
>> I worked on a unit for military apps and the PSU requirement was mostly
>> driven by the environment encountered in vehicles. The spec on the
>> input voltage was up to 30 volts continuous (or thereabouts) but the
>> surge was for 100 volts. When a starter is disengaged there is a huge
>> spike of voltage produced by the coil which arcs across the contacts and
>> travels throughout the power system. They call this "load dump". It
>> should not be ignored. Even in a 12 volt system the load dump can be
>> over 50 volts.
>>
>> What are your other requirements? Would you be happy with something
>> like a Beagle board or a raspberry Pi? Or do you need something with
>> more performance like a PC motherboard in an ITX form factor?
>
> I don't need high performance, but I don't want to have a restricted
> platform. Moreover, with BeagleBoard and Raspberry I need to find a
> suitable enclosure too.
--
Rick
Reply by pozz●May 23, 20152015-05-23
Il 22/05/2015 19:23, Hans-Bernhard Br�ker ha scritto:
> Am 20.05.2015 um 23:26 schrieb pozz:
>> I'm searching for an embedded hardware that should run Linux OS on a
>> vehicle. I don't need special features:
>>
>> - VDC in
>> - RS232 port (not USB adapter)
>> - Ethernet
>> - SSD or soldered Flash (just to avoid magnetic HDD)
>> - analog audio input and output
>>
>> I prefer a board with ready connectors, such as a PC desktop
>> motherboard.
>
> So get one. Car PCs are available to all kinds of specifications.
>
Any suggestions?
Reply by pozz●May 23, 20152015-05-23
Il 22/05/2015 09:47, Jack ha scritto:
> pozz <pozzugno@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> I'm searching for an embedded hardware that should run Linux OS on a
>> vehicle. I don't need special features:
>>
>> - VDC in
>> - RS232 port (not USB adapter)
>> - Ethernet
>> - SSD or soldered Flash (just to avoid magnetic HDD)
>> - analog audio input and output
>>
>> I prefer a board with ready connectors, such as a PC desktop
>> motherboard. I don't want to develop and produce a baseboard.
>>
>> It should be nice to have a suitable case too for installation in a vehicle.
>>
>> Maybe someone can suggest a good automotive DC/DC power supply that
>> regulates the 24Vdc battery voltage of the vehicle in, most probably, a
>> 12Vdc for supplying the embedded computer.
>>
>> Thank you for your suggestions.
>
> check the beagle board.
But I have to find a suitable enclosure and PSU and I have to make cable
assembly...
Reply by pozz●May 23, 20152015-05-23
Il 22/05/2015 20:54, Don Y ha scritto:
> On 5/22/2015 12:37 AM, upsidedown@downunder.com wrote:
>> On Wed, 20 May 2015 23:26:10 +0200, pozz <pozzugno@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> I'm searching for an embedded hardware that should run Linux OS on a
>>> vehicle. I don't need special features:
>>
>> For vehicle mounted system, you need to consider at least
>
> It's unclear as to whether or not the OP wants a piece of kit that
> will become *part* of the vehicle or be used *with* the vehicle.
It will be installed in the vehicle.
> E.g., I can plug an iPod into the USB connector (saves me the hassle
> of having to deal with the nastiness of the auto's power source!!)
> and *use* that device most of the time the car would be "fit for
> occupancy".
>
> OTOH, an ECM that sits in the vehicle (under the hood?) has entirely
> different requirements as to operability.
The power source should be the vehicle battery, actually 24Vdc. It could
be nice if I have a platform compatible with 12Vdc too.
>> * Vibration, check for PCB and connector support
>> * Dust
>> * Temperature range, does the clock oscillator start at -40 C. How
>> does it handle temperatures much above +50 C when the vehicle is
>> parked in the sun ?
>> * Condensation: do you need coated PCBs, how is moisture drained out
>> of the box
>> * Input voltage protection
>
> on "field" wiring as well as power entry (including polarity reversal)
>
>>> - VDC in
>>> - RS232 port (not USB adapter)
>>> - Ethernet
>>> - SSD or soldered Flash (just to avoid magnetic HDD)
>>> - analog audio input and output
>>>
>>> I prefer a board with ready connectors, such as a PC desktop
>>> motherboard. I don't want to develop and produce a baseboard.
>>>
>>> It should be nice to have a suitable case too for installation in a
>>> vehicle.
>>>
>>> Maybe someone can suggest a good automotive DC/DC power supply that
>>> regulates the 24Vdc battery voltage of the vehicle in, most probably, a
>>> 12Vdc for supplying the embedded computer.
>>
>> Starting a big cold diesel may cause a severe drop of the battery
>> voltage. I would suggest after the input voltage filtration a series
>> diode, a _big_ electrolytic capacitor rated at 35 V and specified for
>> high temperatures.
>>
>> After that a DC/DC converter to 5 V or whatever the PCB needs. Check
>> that the converter minimum voltage is low (say 8..12 V) so that it can
>> fully utilize the energy stored in the capacitor.
>
> Again, OP hasn't claimed what his actual requirements might be.
> Is there rotating media involved? What sort of power consumption?
> Displays? etc.
No display, no rotating media, only processing.
> It's a BIG win if you can just run a system from a USB port present in
> most modern vehicles. Let the vehicle manufacturer deal with providing
> "clean" 5V (in some set of circumstances... e.g., may deliberately
> break this connection during starting, etc.)
I know, but I can access only to the battery.
>> The smaller the PCB current consumption, the longer the capacitor
>> charge will last or you can use a smaller capacitor. A
>> small power consumption will also help in cooling the system at high
>> temperatures.
>>
>> In addition to engine start voltage drops, this diode, capacitor,
>> converter circuit also makes it easy to perform an orderly shutdown in
>> case the main +24 V is lost. Of course, you need a direct, filtered
>> feed from the 24 V supply line to start the shutdown sequence to save
>> files etc.
>
Reply by pozz●May 23, 20152015-05-23
Il 22/05/2015 17:31, rickman ha scritto:
> On 5/22/2015 10:54 AM, pozz wrote:
>> Il 22/05/2015 09:37, upsidedown@downunder.com ha scritto:
>>> On Wed, 20 May 2015 23:26:10 +0200, pozz <pozzugno@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> I'm searching for an embedded hardware that should run Linux OS on a
>>>> vehicle. I don't need special features:
>>>
>>> For vehicle mounted system, you need to consider at least
>>>
>>> * Vibration, check for PCB and connector support
>>>
>>> * Dust
>>>
>>> * Temperature range, does the clock oscillator start at -40 C. How
>>> does it handle temperatures much above +50 C when the vehicle is
>>> parked in the sun ?
>>>
>>> * Condensation: do you need coated PCBs, how is moisture drained out
>>> of the box
>>>
>>> * Input voltage protection
>>>
>>>>
>>>> - VDC in
>>>> - RS232 port (not USB adapter)
>>>> - Ethernet
>>>> - SSD or soldered Flash (just to avoid magnetic HDD)
>>>> - analog audio input and output
>>>>
>>>> I prefer a board with ready connectors, such as a PC desktop
>>>> motherboard. I don't want to develop and produce a baseboard.
>>>>
>>>> It should be nice to have a suitable case too for installation in a
>>>> vehicle.
>>>>
>>>> Maybe someone can suggest a good automotive DC/DC power supply that
>>>> regulates the 24Vdc battery voltage of the vehicle in, most probably, a
>>>> 12Vdc for supplying the embedded computer.
>>>
>>> Starting a big cold diesel may cause a severe drop of the battery
>>> voltage. I would suggest after the input voltage filtration a series
>>> diode, a _big_ electrolytic capacitor rated at 35 V and specified for
>>> high temperatures.
>>>
>>> After that a DC/DC converter to 5 V or whatever the PCB needs. Check
>>> that the converter minimum voltage is low (say 8..12 V) so that it can
>>> fully utilize the energy stored in the capacitor.
>>>
>>> The smaller the PCB current consumption, the longer the capacitor
>>> charge will last or you can use a smaller capacitor. A
>>> small power consumption will also help in cooling the system at high
>>> temperatures.
>>>
>>> In addition to engine start voltage drops, this diode, capacitor,
>>> converter circuit also makes it easy to perform an orderly shutdown in
>>> case the main +24 V is lost. Of course, you need a direct, filtered
>>> feed from the 24 V supply line to start the shutdown sequence to save
>>> files etc.
>>
>> Infact, I need a ready-to-use solution. One that includes a suitable
>> power supply, mainboard, connectors and so on.
>
> I think that is going to be hard to find. The power supply should not
> be a big deal. Finding one with a shutdown signal shouldn't be too
> hard. But finding all this bundled up in one unit will be a bit tough.
There are many companies that have in-vehicle embedded PC with this type
of requirements. For example, AEV-6312 from AAEON.
Here the manual.
ftp://data.aaeon.com.tw/DOWNLOAD/MANUAL/AEV-6312%20Manual%202nd%20Ed.pdf
The PSU is compatible with in-vehicle battery and provides an ACC input
signal for automatic power-on/shutdown. It is compatible with 12V and
24V systems. I don't know if it is able to support high voltage spikes
during engine starting.
There is also some specific in-vehicle PSUs, for example this one:
http://www.mini-box.com/M2-ATX-160w-Intelligent-Automotive-DC-DC-Power-Supply?sc=8&category=13
It is compatible with 12V systems only, but it provides everything we
need (at least, on the written specification). The output is ATX compatible.
> I worked on a unit for military apps and the PSU requirement was mostly
> driven by the environment encountered in vehicles. The spec on the
> input voltage was up to 30 volts continuous (or thereabouts) but the
> surge was for 100 volts. When a starter is disengaged there is a huge
> spike of voltage produced by the coil which arcs across the contacts and
> travels throughout the power system. They call this "load dump". It
> should not be ignored. Even in a 12 volt system the load dump can be
> over 50 volts.
>
> What are your other requirements? Would you be happy with something
> like a Beagle board or a raspberry Pi? Or do you need something with
> more performance like a PC motherboard in an ITX form factor?
I don't need high performance, but I don't want to have a restricted
platform. Moreover, with BeagleBoard and Raspberry I need to find a
suitable enclosure too.
Reply by Don Y●May 22, 20152015-05-22
On 5/22/2015 12:37 AM, upsidedown@downunder.com wrote:
> On Wed, 20 May 2015 23:26:10 +0200, pozz <pozzugno@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> I'm searching for an embedded hardware that should run Linux OS on a
>> vehicle. I don't need special features:
>
> For vehicle mounted system, you need to consider at least
It's unclear as to whether or not the OP wants a piece of kit that
will become *part* of the vehicle or be used *with* the vehicle.
E.g., I can plug an iPod into the USB connector (saves me the hassle
of having to deal with the nastiness of the auto's power source!!)
and *use* that device most of the time the car would be "fit for
occupancy".
OTOH, an ECM that sits in the vehicle (under the hood?) has entirely
different requirements as to operability.
> * Vibration, check for PCB and connector support
> * Dust
> * Temperature range, does the clock oscillator start at -40 C. How
> does it handle temperatures much above +50 C when the vehicle is
> parked in the sun ?
> * Condensation: do you need coated PCBs, how is moisture drained out
> of the box
> * Input voltage protection
on "field" wiring as well as power entry (including polarity reversal)
>> - VDC in
>> - RS232 port (not USB adapter)
>> - Ethernet
>> - SSD or soldered Flash (just to avoid magnetic HDD)
>> - analog audio input and output
>>
>> I prefer a board with ready connectors, such as a PC desktop
>> motherboard. I don't want to develop and produce a baseboard.
>>
>> It should be nice to have a suitable case too for installation in a vehicle.
>>
>> Maybe someone can suggest a good automotive DC/DC power supply that
>> regulates the 24Vdc battery voltage of the vehicle in, most probably, a
>> 12Vdc for supplying the embedded computer.
>
> Starting a big cold diesel may cause a severe drop of the battery
> voltage. I would suggest after the input voltage filtration a series
> diode, a _big_ electrolytic capacitor rated at 35 V and specified for
> high temperatures.
>
> After that a DC/DC converter to 5 V or whatever the PCB needs. Check
> that the converter minimum voltage is low (say 8..12 V) so that it can
> fully utilize the energy stored in the capacitor.
Again, OP hasn't claimed what his actual requirements might be.
Is there rotating media involved? What sort of power consumption?
Displays? etc.
It's a BIG win if you can just run a system from a USB port present in
most modern vehicles. Let the vehicle manufacturer deal with providing
"clean" 5V (in some set of circumstances... e.g., may deliberately
break this connection during starting, etc.)
> The smaller the PCB current consumption, the longer the capacitor
> charge will last or you can use a smaller capacitor. A
> small power consumption will also help in cooling the system at high
> temperatures.
>
> In addition to engine start voltage drops, this diode, capacitor,
> converter circuit also makes it easy to perform an orderly shutdown in
> case the main +24 V is lost. Of course, you need a direct, filtered
> feed from the 24 V supply line to start the shutdown sequence to save
> files etc.
Reply by Walter Banks●May 22, 20152015-05-22
pozz wrote:
> I'm searching for an embedded hardware that should run Linux OS on a
> vehicle. I don't need special features:
>
> - VDC in
> - RS232 port (not USB adapter)
> - Ethernet
> - SSD or soldered Flash (just to avoid magnetic HDD)
> - analog audio input and output
>
> I prefer a board with ready connectors, such as a PC desktop
> motherboard. I don't want to develop and produce a baseboard.
>
> It should be nice to have a suitable case too for installation in a vehicle.
>
> Maybe someone can suggest a good automotive DC/DC power supply that
> regulates the 24Vdc battery voltage of the vehicle in, most probably, a
> 12Vdc for supplying the embedded computer.
>
> Thank you for your suggestions.
What are you going to do with the embedded hardware?
w..
Reply by ●May 22, 20152015-05-22
Am 20.05.2015 um 23:26 schrieb pozz:
> I'm searching for an embedded hardware that should run Linux OS on a
> vehicle. I don't need special features:
>
> - VDC in
> - RS232 port (not USB adapter)
> - Ethernet
> - SSD or soldered Flash (just to avoid magnetic HDD)
> - analog audio input and output
>
> I prefer a board with ready connectors, such as a PC desktop
> motherboard.
So get one. Car PCs are available to all kinds of specifications.