On Fri, 16 Dec 2016 17:58:59 +0100 (CET), albert@cherry.spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) wrote:>Also recovering from small quantities of cyanide is total >or unnecessary, as it is present in quite some food. >Small doses of arsenic accumulate and permanently affect >your health.Cyanides come in both organic and inorganic forms. The inorganic forms are deadly. In the small quantities typically found in foods, the body can eliminate the organic forms. George
In article <MPG.3200a8f750a1f026989805@172.16.0.1>, Paul <paul@pcserviceselectronics.co.uk> wrote:>In article <nn56ct$jti$1@reader2.panix.com>, invalid@invalid.invalid >says... >> >> On 2016-07-25, pozz <pozzugno@gmail.com> wrote: >> > Il 23/07/2016 05:01, krw@attt.bizz ha scritto: >> >> >> The AVR architecture isn't all that great >> > >> > I worked with PIC and AVR and IMHO AVR is much better. >> >> Talk about damning with faint praise... > > >Me thinks, you resemble this to the which is better Cyanide or >Arsenic...Cyanide is much better. The Nazi leaders and their children died within minutes with cyanide. For a description of the suffering involved in arsenic see Madame Bovary, Flaubert. Also recovering from small quantities of cyanide is total or unnecessary, as it is present in quite some food. Small doses of arsenic accumulate and permanently affect your health. So what is your point?>Paul Carpenter | paul@pcserviceselectronics.co.ukGroetjes Albert -- Albert van der Horst, UTRECHT,THE NETHERLANDS Economic growth -- being exponential -- ultimately falters. albert@spe&ar&c.xs4all.nl &=n http://home.hccnet.nl/a.w.m.van.der.horst
marți, 2 august 2016, 08:28:47 UTC+3, Paul Rubin a scris:> raimond.dragomir@gmail.com writes: > > Kinetis KE devices are 5V and have 256 bytes eeprom. The eeprom can be > > enough for many applications, but it is indeed smaller than the AVR's. > > No prob about it being smaller. For most uses I've thought of, a few > dozen bytes is plenty, but 0 bytes limits some applications.Yes indeed. Although, depending on the internal flash technology and provided interface to the user, one can emulate a eeprom. I'm doing this on STM32F030 devices which don't have eeprom.> > > They are also rated at 6kV ESD in the datasheet. This is quite > > high,... > > Hmm, I hadn't even thought of that issue.Neither did I, until I faced it. I had some boards with XMEGA devices which I ported to cheaper F030. No problem, but the industrial environment was quite "normal". I thought I can equalize the family by porting some other two designs which had ATMEGA8 cpu to the same F030... No luck this time. The F030 just stops working. The internal watchdog gets it back to work, and it's quite fast at 2ms. But the hiccups are noticeable.
raimond.dragomir@gmail.com writes:> Kinetis KE devices are 5V and have 256 bytes eeprom. The eeprom can be > enough for many applications, but it is indeed smaller than the AVR's.No prob about it being smaller. For most uses I've thought of, a few dozen bytes is plenty, but 0 bytes limits some applications.> They are also rated at 6kV ESD in the datasheet. This is quite > high,...Hmm, I hadn't even thought of that issue. Another thing someone mentioned about avr's is that the gpio pins can source (or maybe just sink) quite a lot of current, like 40mA. That has to be good for something. On the other hand, the idle power consumption of the common avr's is quite a lot higher than I expected, if I'm reading this right: https://github.com/manitou48/DUEZoo/blob/master/power.txt
luni, 1 august 2016, 21:53:05 UTC+3, Paul Rubin a scris:> David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> writes: > > There are Kinetis (Freescale, now NXP) M0+ devices for $0.50 or so. > > Yes this is true. What I don't know is of any specific ones with > capabilities similar to the more popular AVR's (on-chip eeprom is one > such feature that seems hard to find). It's also the case (I suppose > this would count as "inertia") that at least at the moment, there's lots > of little development boards with interesting functions, that use the > AVR and don't seem to have ARM counterparts.Kinetis KE devices are 5V and have 256 bytes eeprom. The eeprom can be enough for many applications, but it is indeed smaller than the AVR's. They are also rated at 6kV ESD in the datasheet. This is quite high, AVR's are somewhere around 4kV, STM32 and Silabs devices are regular 2kV. I re-designed a board which had an atmega8, with a STM32 M0 device (a STM32F030 variant). That board just didn't work in that environment (very noisy industrial). I was forced to revert to the poor AVR....
David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> writes:> There are Kinetis (Freescale, now NXP) M0+ devices for $0.50 or so.Yes this is true. What I don't know is of any specific ones with capabilities similar to the more popular AVR's (on-chip eeprom is one such feature that seems hard to find). It's also the case (I suppose this would count as "inertia") that at least at the moment, there's lots of little development boards with interesting functions, that use the AVR and don't seem to have ARM counterparts.
On 31/07/16 02:11, Paul Rubin wrote:> krw@attt.bizz writes: >>> There are plenty of ARMs available for under $2. >> (Well) Under $1. > > Can you suggest any specific part numbers? Thanks. >There are Kinetis (Freescale, now NXP) M0+ devices for $0.50 or so.
On Mon, 1 Aug 2016 04:38:35 +0300, Dimiter_Popoff <dp@tgi-sci.com> wrote:>On 01.8.2016 ?. 04:05, krw@attt.bizz wrote: >> On Mon, 1 Aug 2016 03:42:51 +0300, Dimiter_Popoff <dp@tgi-sci.com> >> wrote: >> >>> On 01.8.2016 ?. 03:14, krw@attt.bizz wrote: >>>> On Mon, 1 Aug 2016 02:47:46 +0300, Dimiter_Popoff <dp@tgi-sci.com> >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> On 01.8.2016 ?. 02:21, krw@attt.bizz wrote: >>>>>> On Sun, 31 Jul 2016 17:56:53 +0300, Dimiter_Popoff <dp@tgi-sci.com> >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> On 31.7.2016 ?. 17:49, krw@attt.bizz wrote: >>>>>>>> On Sun, 31 Jul 2016 17:38:22 +0300, Dimiter_Popoff <dp@tgi-sci.com> >>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On 31.7.2016 ?. 17:26, krw@attt.bizz wrote: >>>>>>>>>> On Sun, 31 Jul 2016 17:22:41 +0300, Dimiter_Popoff <dp@tgi-sci.com> >>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> On 31.7.2016 ?. 16:12, krw@attt.bizz wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> On Sun, 31 Jul 2016 13:55:50 +0300, Dimiter_Popoff <dp@tgi-sci.com> >>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> On 31.7.2016 ?. 03:06, krw@attt.bizz wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> ..... >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ARMs are not second sourced because different manufacturers don't >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> generally make pin compatible packages. Even if they did and use the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> same processor, they don't use the same peripherals, so they aren't >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> second sourced. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Who cares about pinouts? Spin the board if your suppliers croaks. If >>>>>>>>>>>>>> they're still building the part, why would you want to change? >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'm pretty well over this discussion. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> You're lying, again. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> But he was correct that you are trolling. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> You're as stupid as he is, obviously. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Perhaps so, engaging in an exchange with the troll of the group >>>>>>>>>>> I have known to be that for many years. Not the brightest >>>>>>>>>>> thing to waste my time with indeed. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Yet you insist on doing what you think to be stupid. That *is* >>>>>>>>>> classical stupid. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Who cares about pinouts. Who cares about the same peripherals. >>>>>>>>>>>>> So where is the second sourcing this is about, Einstein. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> The peripherals are very similar. If your code isn't a pile of >>>>>>>>>>>> spaghetti, changing one peripheral for another isn't a huge problem. >>>>>>>>>>>> The hard stuff doesn't have to change. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> So you have to redesign the board, you have to modify the software >>>>>>>>>>> and you have a "second source". Whoever told you you have anything >>>>>>>>>>> to do with design and programming has lied. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Better than having no product to sell. Yes. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> I have yet to see a post of yours which is other than trolling, >>>>>>>>>>>>> could you please keep them within SED, not that CAE is perfect >>>>>>>>>>>>> but we don't have any regular trolls. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> To put it another way, "here's your sign." >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> A disagreement is not a troll, stupid. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Yeah, feel free to disagree you are a troll. Or that 1+1=2, >>>>>>>>>>> whatever. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Yet you're stupid enough to continue doing something that you think is >>>>>>>>>> stupid. Amazing. ...or you're just another liar. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> So where did I lie, Einstein. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> You don't read very well. Either you're stupid or you're a liar. Pick >>>>>>>> one. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Ah, so there is an "either/or" now. >>>>>> >>>>>> You said it. I just clarified the choice. >>>>>> >>>>>>> Like your second sourced MCU-s >>>>>>> which nobody second sources, I see. >>>>>> >>>>>> Now who's trolling? So, I'm to assume the answer is "liar". Good >>>>>> enough. >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> You have yet to point to a lie I have told. You know you cannot - you >>>>> must have been trying all day. So you are lying, clearly you take >>>>> being a liar as something casual. One more reason for me to dislike you. >>>> >>>> Since you're illiterate, I'll map out the obvious for you. >>>> >>>> - You said you didn't like talking to trolls >>>> - You accused me of being a troll >>>> - yet you insist on continuing this thread >>> >>> Most of the above is true, yes. "Insist" is not true but I do >>> continue it for now, just as you do. >> >> I'm not the one who made the original assertion. >>> >>>> >>>> So either >>>> - you're stupid because you're doing what you don't want to do >>> >>> I have done stupid things in the past and I probably will do some >>> in the future, yes. I knew you were a troll and I knew you would >>> respond the way you did beforehand; but I did take some fun of >>> cornering you about the nonsense you said trying to demonstrate >>> knowledge you do not have because I dislike you. >> >> You're lying, again. In case you hadn't noticed, I really don't care >> whether you like me or beer, for that matter. You really appear to be >> lying, though. You simply can't stop yourself. > >Lying seems to be quite a part of your life, eh? You keep on talking >about it in a clearly disturbed way, you want so much to catch me >in a lie. Well, you cannot - and better stop trying because you >won't, ever. You can only get suffocated of anger in your frustration, >the symptoms are already there to see. >Good Lord, you're stupid!>>> >>>> - you're a liar because you do enjoy arguing with those who >>> >>> I don't understand "those two", sorry. Are you that? This >>> would be a medical issue. >> >> Of course you don't. You're stupid, remember? >>> >>>> you accuse of being trolls >>> >>> Yes. Both of you I suppose? >> >> More evidence of "stupid". > >Ah, you are already gulping. Suffocating may come next, beware.Now you're projecting, too.> >>> >>>> - you lied that I'm a troll. >>> >>> No, this is a fact. I have not seen one post of yours with substance >>> and I have seen tens of your posts. Most of them are plain trolling. >> >> Well, it appears that the real answer may be "stupid liar". That >> works. > >Whatever works for you, just try not to suffocate. >And yes you are a troll, a classic case. Do you really >don't know it after all these years? > >>>> >>>> Boo Hoo, you don't like me. >>>> >>>>> Obviously once I have been stupid enough to engage with a troll I will >>>>> be trolling, too. Being the group's troll for years does not make you >>>>> own the rights for that, you know. >>>> >>>> So you admit that you are stupid. Too stupid to read, for sure. >>> >>> I have no problem admitting I have been stupid of course. Why are you >>> so frightened of doing so? >> >> Frightened? No, you were the one who objected to either possibility >> that I proposed for your posting. Since you've admitted that you're >> stupid (after proving that you're illiterate), we only have to nail >> down "liar". You seem to be working on that one, now, too. > >So you are frightened to admit you are incompetent and are frightened >to think why.Projecting again.>>> >>>>> I will not have the patience to troll you out of your habits of course, >>>>> this would take days and days, but I can have some fun while you moan >>>>> trying to unsay the nonsense you have said or at least steer >>>>> the troll exchange elsewhere. >>>> >>>> So you don't like yourself either. That's understandable. >>> >>> I don't spend much time thinking about liking myself or not so I don't >>> know that. But I certainly don't produce the reasons to be disliked >>> which you produce. >> >> You lie to yourself, too. Makes sense. > >No, though I may occasionally be deluded like most people. >Lying is part of your life, not mine, remember.No, you're just plain stupid.>>> You could of course have said you were wrong to claim there were ARM >>> MCUs which have a second source, everybody says something stupid >>> sometimes, and there would have been less posts demonstrating your >>> incompetence. >> >> There is only one manufacturer of ARM CPUs? You're either stupid or a >> liar (but both, now seems to be the more reasonable answer). > >You insist on demonstrating incompetence. Learn the meaning of "second >source". I was with the impression someone was paying you to be an >engineer of sorts? > >>> Be my guest, I'll stop when I get tired of it but I am not there yet. >> >> Keep going. You're simply proving that you're stupid and a liar, the >> more you post. >> > >Your turn, demonstrate some more incompetence. I may be losing the >interest, you have to do better than just raging around if you >want to keep me in.I'm not demonstrating anything. You're doing a good job of showing just how stupid you really are, though.
On Sun, 31 Jul 2016 17:11:49 -0700, Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> wrote:>Dimiter_Popoff <dp@tgi-sci.com> writes: >> I will not have the patience to troll you out of your habits of course, >> this would take days and days, but I can have some fun while you moan > >Can you two get a room?As long as I don't have to watch. -- John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc lunatic fringe electronics
On 01.8.2016 г. 04:05, krw@attt.bizz wrote:> On Mon, 1 Aug 2016 03:42:51 +0300, Dimiter_Popoff <dp@tgi-sci.com> > wrote: > >> On 01.8.2016 ?. 03:14, krw@attt.bizz wrote: >>> On Mon, 1 Aug 2016 02:47:46 +0300, Dimiter_Popoff <dp@tgi-sci.com> >>> wrote: >>> >>>> On 01.8.2016 ?. 02:21, krw@attt.bizz wrote: >>>>> On Sun, 31 Jul 2016 17:56:53 +0300, Dimiter_Popoff <dp@tgi-sci.com> >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> On 31.7.2016 ?. 17:49, krw@attt.bizz wrote: >>>>>>> On Sun, 31 Jul 2016 17:38:22 +0300, Dimiter_Popoff <dp@tgi-sci.com> >>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On 31.7.2016 ?. 17:26, krw@attt.bizz wrote: >>>>>>>>> On Sun, 31 Jul 2016 17:22:41 +0300, Dimiter_Popoff <dp@tgi-sci.com> >>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On 31.7.2016 ?. 16:12, krw@attt.bizz wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> On Sun, 31 Jul 2016 13:55:50 +0300, Dimiter_Popoff <dp@tgi-sci.com> >>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> On 31.7.2016 ?. 03:06, krw@attt.bizz wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>> ..... >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> ARMs are not second sourced because different manufacturers don't >>>>>>>>>>>>>> generally make pin compatible packages. Even if they did and use the >>>>>>>>>>>>>> same processor, they don't use the same peripherals, so they aren't >>>>>>>>>>>>>> second sourced. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Who cares about pinouts? Spin the board if your suppliers croaks. If >>>>>>>>>>>>> they're still building the part, why would you want to change? >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'm pretty well over this discussion. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> You're lying, again. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> But he was correct that you are trolling. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> You're as stupid as he is, obviously. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Perhaps so, engaging in an exchange with the troll of the group >>>>>>>>>> I have known to be that for many years. Not the brightest >>>>>>>>>> thing to waste my time with indeed. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Yet you insist on doing what you think to be stupid. That *is* >>>>>>>>> classical stupid. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Who cares about pinouts. Who cares about the same peripherals. >>>>>>>>>>>> So where is the second sourcing this is about, Einstein. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> The peripherals are very similar. If your code isn't a pile of >>>>>>>>>>> spaghetti, changing one peripheral for another isn't a huge problem. >>>>>>>>>>> The hard stuff doesn't have to change. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> So you have to redesign the board, you have to modify the software >>>>>>>>>> and you have a "second source". Whoever told you you have anything >>>>>>>>>> to do with design and programming has lied. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Better than having no product to sell. Yes. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> I have yet to see a post of yours which is other than trolling, >>>>>>>>>>>> could you please keep them within SED, not that CAE is perfect >>>>>>>>>>>> but we don't have any regular trolls. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> To put it another way, "here's your sign." >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> A disagreement is not a troll, stupid. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Yeah, feel free to disagree you are a troll. Or that 1+1=2, >>>>>>>>>> whatever. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Yet you're stupid enough to continue doing something that you think is >>>>>>>>> stupid. Amazing. ...or you're just another liar. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> So where did I lie, Einstein. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> You don't read very well. Either you're stupid or you're a liar. Pick >>>>>>> one. >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Ah, so there is an "either/or" now. >>>>> >>>>> You said it. I just clarified the choice. >>>>> >>>>>> Like your second sourced MCU-s >>>>>> which nobody second sources, I see. >>>>> >>>>> Now who's trolling? So, I'm to assume the answer is "liar". Good >>>>> enough. >>>>> >>>> >>>> You have yet to point to a lie I have told. You know you cannot - you >>>> must have been trying all day. So you are lying, clearly you take >>>> being a liar as something casual. One more reason for me to dislike you. >>> >>> Since you're illiterate, I'll map out the obvious for you. >>> >>> - You said you didn't like talking to trolls >>> - You accused me of being a troll >>> - yet you insist on continuing this thread >> >> Most of the above is true, yes. "Insist" is not true but I do >> continue it for now, just as you do. > > I'm not the one who made the original assertion. >> >>> >>> So either >>> - you're stupid because you're doing what you don't want to do >> >> I have done stupid things in the past and I probably will do some >> in the future, yes. I knew you were a troll and I knew you would >> respond the way you did beforehand; but I did take some fun of >> cornering you about the nonsense you said trying to demonstrate >> knowledge you do not have because I dislike you. > > You're lying, again. In case you hadn't noticed, I really don't care > whether you like me or beer, for that matter. You really appear to be > lying, though. You simply can't stop yourself.Lying seems to be quite a part of your life, eh? You keep on talking about it in a clearly disturbed way, you want so much to catch me in a lie. Well, you cannot - and better stop trying because you won't, ever. You can only get suffocated of anger in your frustration, the symptoms are already there to see.>> >>> - you're a liar because you do enjoy arguing with those who >> >> I don't understand "those two", sorry. Are you that? This >> would be a medical issue. > > Of course you don't. You're stupid, remember? >> >>> you accuse of being trolls >> >> Yes. Both of you I suppose? > > More evidence of "stupid".Ah, you are already gulping. Suffocating may come next, beware.>> >>> - you lied that I'm a troll. >> >> No, this is a fact. I have not seen one post of yours with substance >> and I have seen tens of your posts. Most of them are plain trolling. > > Well, it appears that the real answer may be "stupid liar". That > works.Whatever works for you, just try not to suffocate. And yes you are a troll, a classic case. Do you really don't know it after all these years?>>> >>> Boo Hoo, you don't like me. >>> >>>> Obviously once I have been stupid enough to engage with a troll I will >>>> be trolling, too. Being the group's troll for years does not make you >>>> own the rights for that, you know. >>> >>> So you admit that you are stupid. Too stupid to read, for sure. >> >> I have no problem admitting I have been stupid of course. Why are you >> so frightened of doing so? > > Frightened? No, you were the one who objected to either possibility > that I proposed for your posting. Since you've admitted that you're > stupid (after proving that you're illiterate), we only have to nail > down "liar". You seem to be working on that one, now, too.So you are frightened to admit you are incompetent and are frightened to think why.>> >>>> I will not have the patience to troll you out of your habits of course, >>>> this would take days and days, but I can have some fun while you moan >>>> trying to unsay the nonsense you have said or at least steer >>>> the troll exchange elsewhere. >>> >>> So you don't like yourself either. That's understandable. >> >> I don't spend much time thinking about liking myself or not so I don't >> know that. But I certainly don't produce the reasons to be disliked >> which you produce. > > You lie to yourself, too. Makes sense.No, though I may occasionally be deluded like most people. Lying is part of your life, not mine, remember.>> You could of course have said you were wrong to claim there were ARM >> MCUs which have a second source, everybody says something stupid >> sometimes, and there would have been less posts demonstrating your >> incompetence. > > There is only one manufacturer of ARM CPUs? You're either stupid or a > liar (but both, now seems to be the more reasonable answer).You insist on demonstrating incompetence. Learn the meaning of "second source". I was with the impression someone was paying you to be an engineer of sorts?>> Be my guest, I'll stop when I get tired of it but I am not there yet. > > Keep going. You're simply proving that you're stupid and a liar, the > more you post. >Your turn, demonstrate some more incompetence. I may be losing the interest, you have to do better than just raging around if you want to keep me in.