As long as I am griping, I'm trying to read the schematics for the 
MSP-EXP430FR4133 and they are a royal PITA.  First they use a light grey 
for the text on the pages.  I have no idea who thought light grey is an 
acceptable color for anything on a drawing that you actually intend 
people to read.  IDIOTS!

Secondly, the only text anywhere on the drawing that can be treated as 
text by selecting, copying or searching are the bloody pin numbers on 
the parts.  There is no way to search for net names to see what goes 
where.  IDIOTS!

Finally the text labeling the pins is incredibly microscopically small! 
It is less than half the height of the other text on the page.   IDIOTS!

Anyone know what schematic package TI is using for their drawings?  I 
want to make sure I never use it.

I will say they appear to have an interesting design for measuring the 
power of the target.  It appears they are using a DCDC converter 
controlled by an MCU to measure the current by counting the on time of 
the pass transistor.  I wonder what the benefit of this is over just 
using a series resistor and measuring the voltage delta across it.  They 
are dropping 5 volts to 3.3, so the resistor could be between the 
regulator output and the sense point and not cost any extra voltage drop.

They have some patents on this method and even on a compiler feature 
that lets you measure the power of code functions and optimize for speed 
the sections that use the most power.  The patent abstract isn't clear 
on how automated this is.  One thing I noticed is that the patents all 
very specifically mention using an inductor.  So if this is instead done 
with a switched capacitor bank, it would not violate any patents except 
maybe the compiler patent.

-- 

Rick C

On 23/03/17 20:50, Tim Wescott wrote:
> On Thu, 23 Mar 2017 20:43:28 +0100, David Brown wrote:
>
>> On 23/03/17 18:49, Tim Wescott wrote:
>>
>>
>>> Oh joy.  I feel for you.
>>>
>>> Part of the reason that I do nearly all of my development with ARM
>>> Cortex parts using 3rd-party open-source tools is because the tools
>>> seem to have fewer really fatal flaws, and when they do there's someone
>>> out in the community who's flogging things to make the flaws go away.
>>>
>>> It was a stroke of genius on ARM's part to make a common debug
>>> interface -- it means that one tool chain will work on anybody's ARM
>>> Cortex parts.
>>>
>>>
>> The irony here is that on one of my projects based on a Freescale
>> Kinetis, the debugger I am using (with Linux) is a small board that came
>> free with a TI demo kit!
>
> It must be one of the ARM core parts from Luminary -- their debug
> hardware is compatible with OpenOCD, and works pretty well with other
> manufacturer's stuff (although the early boards didn't treat reset as
> well as the 3rd-party dongles do -- I don't know if this was fixed in
> later versions or not).
>

It was indeed a Luminary Micros part - well done!

rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> writes:

> On 3/23/2017 3:15 PM, John Devereux wrote:
>> rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> writes:
>>
>>> I found another way to download to the target.  Seems TI has a web
>>> page to support this.  Really?  A web page to control a target board
>>> on my PC?  Ok...
>>>
>>> I gave it a try and of course there are drivers to download.  But this
>>> is handled automatically.  Well, mostly.  The first driver downloaded
>>> and installed ok.  In the process it seemed to install the second
>>> driver.  When I clicked the final button to refresh the page I am
>>> still prompted with a message that I need to download and install the
>>> second piece of software.  Ok, I guess it didn't get loaded before, it
>>> must have been something else with a similar name.  I click to
>>> download and install the second package.  Refresh.  Same message.
>>>
>>> I tried this a couple more times before I realized, it was
>>> downloading, but not installing!  So I manually ran the installation
>>> and refreshed the page.  Now it seems responsive.  I asked it to
>>> verify the firmware on the target.  It takes some time because it has
>>> to install yet more stuff.  Finally it starts running and gives an
>>> error... :-*
>>>
>>> Seems this board is old enough the emulator firmware is not up to
>>> date. It wants to update that... do I have an emulator for the
>>> emulator?  I guess the flash emulator emulates itself?  :-/
>>>
>>> Ok, some time and lots of blinking red LEDs later, the board seems to
>>> be updated and it completes my request to verify the "out of box"
>>> firmware. You got it!  An error!  It fails confirmation.  I guess that
>>> firmware is also out of date.  Do I dare update the firmware?  In for
>>> a penny...
>>>
>>> That worked, the image updated and now verifies and the board
>>> continues working the same as far as I can tell.  I wonder what was
>>> changed in the OOB firmware?
>>>
>>> I still need to get the FET USB driver working.  Can anyone else
>>> download the ti_msp430driver_setup_1_00_01_00.zip file from
>>> http://software-dl.ti.com/msp430/msp430_public_sw/mcu/msp430/MSP430_FET_Drivers/latest/index_FDS.html
>>
>> Download worked fine for me Rick, it was on my machine within 30 seconds
>> of clicking your link.
>
> Yes, John Temples wrote me that it worked for him as well.  Looks like
> I picked the wrong two browsers to try, Opera and Chrome.  It worked
> for me when I tried FF.  What are the odds?
>
> What browser did you use?

Firefox (on linux)

> I'm actually a bit frustrated with it all now.  I'm going to quit for
> the day and work on financial stuff.  I can't seem to get a CPA to
> return my call or worse they don't seem to respond to emails.  I'm
> looking for a new one and they all seem to be living in the 1900's.

-- 

John Devereux

On Thu, 23 Mar 2017 20:43:28 +0100, David Brown wrote:

> On 23/03/17 18:49, Tim Wescott wrote:
> 
> 
>> Oh joy.  I feel for you.
>>
>> Part of the reason that I do nearly all of my development with ARM
>> Cortex parts using 3rd-party open-source tools is because the tools
>> seem to have fewer really fatal flaws, and when they do there's someone
>> out in the community who's flogging things to make the flaws go away.
>>
>> It was a stroke of genius on ARM's part to make a common debug
>> interface -- it means that one tool chain will work on anybody's ARM
>> Cortex parts.
>>
>>
> The irony here is that on one of my projects based on a Freescale
> Kinetis, the debugger I am using (with Linux) is a small board that came
> free with a TI demo kit!

It must be one of the ARM core parts from Luminary -- their debug 
hardware is compatible with OpenOCD, and works pretty well with other 
manufacturer's stuff (although the early boards didn't treat reset as 
well as the 3rd-party dongles do -- I don't know if this was fixed in 
later versions or not).

-- 

Tim Wescott
Wescott Design Services
http://www.wescottdesign.com

I'm looking for work -- see my website!

On 23/03/17 18:49, Tim Wescott wrote:

>
> Oh joy.  I feel for you.
>
> Part of the reason that I do nearly all of my development with ARM Cortex
> parts using 3rd-party open-source tools is because the tools seem to have
> fewer really fatal flaws, and when they do there's someone out in the
> community who's flogging things to make the flaws go away.
>
> It was a stroke of genius on ARM's part to make a common debug interface
> -- it means that one tool chain will work on anybody's ARM Cortex parts.
>

The irony here is that on one of my projects based on a Freescale 
Kinetis, the debugger I am using (with Linux) is a small board that came 
free with a TI demo kit!

On 3/23/2017 3:15 PM, John Devereux wrote:
> rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> writes:
>
>> I found another way to download to the target.  Seems TI has a web
>> page to support this.  Really?  A web page to control a target board
>> on my PC?  Ok...
>>
>> I gave it a try and of course there are drivers to download.  But this
>> is handled automatically.  Well, mostly.  The first driver downloaded
>> and installed ok.  In the process it seemed to install the second
>> driver.  When I clicked the final button to refresh the page I am
>> still prompted with a message that I need to download and install the
>> second piece of software.  Ok, I guess it didn't get loaded before, it
>> must have been something else with a similar name.  I click to
>> download and install the second package.  Refresh.  Same message.
>>
>> I tried this a couple more times before I realized, it was
>> downloading, but not installing!  So I manually ran the installation
>> and refreshed the page.  Now it seems responsive.  I asked it to
>> verify the firmware on the target.  It takes some time because it has
>> to install yet more stuff.  Finally it starts running and gives an
>> error... :-*
>>
>> Seems this board is old enough the emulator firmware is not up to
>> date. It wants to update that... do I have an emulator for the
>> emulator?  I guess the flash emulator emulates itself?  :-/
>>
>> Ok, some time and lots of blinking red LEDs later, the board seems to
>> be updated and it completes my request to verify the "out of box"
>> firmware. You got it!  An error!  It fails confirmation.  I guess that
>> firmware is also out of date.  Do I dare update the firmware?  In for
>> a penny...
>>
>> That worked, the image updated and now verifies and the board
>> continues working the same as far as I can tell.  I wonder what was
>> changed in the OOB firmware?
>>
>> I still need to get the FET USB driver working.  Can anyone else
>> download the ti_msp430driver_setup_1_00_01_00.zip file from
>> http://software-dl.ti.com/msp430/msp430_public_sw/mcu/msp430/MSP430_FET_Drivers/latest/index_FDS.html
>
> Download worked fine for me Rick, it was on my machine within 30 seconds
> of clicking your link.

Yes, John Temples wrote me that it worked for him as well.  Looks like I 
picked the wrong two browsers to try, Opera and Chrome.  It worked for 
me when I tried FF.  What are the odds?

What browser did you use?

I'm actually a bit frustrated with it all now.  I'm going to quit for 
the day and work on financial stuff.  I can't seem to get a CPA to 
return my call or worse they don't seem to respond to emails.  I'm 
looking for a new one and they all seem to be living in the 1900's.

-- 

Rick C

rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> writes:

> I found another way to download to the target.  Seems TI has a web
> page to support this.  Really?  A web page to control a target board
> on my PC?  Ok...
>
> I gave it a try and of course there are drivers to download.  But this
> is handled automatically.  Well, mostly.  The first driver downloaded
> and installed ok.  In the process it seemed to install the second
> driver.  When I clicked the final button to refresh the page I am
> still prompted with a message that I need to download and install the
> second piece of software.  Ok, I guess it didn't get loaded before, it
> must have been something else with a similar name.  I click to
> download and install the second package.  Refresh.  Same message.
>
> I tried this a couple more times before I realized, it was
> downloading, but not installing!  So I manually ran the installation
> and refreshed the page.  Now it seems responsive.  I asked it to
> verify the firmware on the target.  It takes some time because it has
> to install yet more stuff.  Finally it starts running and gives an
> error... :-*
>
> Seems this board is old enough the emulator firmware is not up to
> date. It wants to update that... do I have an emulator for the
> emulator?  I guess the flash emulator emulates itself?  :-/
>
> Ok, some time and lots of blinking red LEDs later, the board seems to
> be updated and it completes my request to verify the "out of box"
> firmware. You got it!  An error!  It fails confirmation.  I guess that
> firmware is also out of date.  Do I dare update the firmware?  In for
> a penny...
>
> That worked, the image updated and now verifies and the board
> continues working the same as far as I can tell.  I wonder what was
> changed in the OOB firmware?
>
> I still need to get the FET USB driver working.  Can anyone else
> download the ti_msp430driver_setup_1_00_01_00.zip file from
> http://software-dl.ti.com/msp430/msp430_public_sw/mcu/msp430/MSP430_FET_Drivers/latest/index_FDS.html

Download worked fine for me Rick, it was on my machine within 30 seconds
of clicking your link.




-- 

John Devereux

On Thu, 23 Mar 2017 13:40:57 -0400, rickman wrote:

> Sorry for the long rant.  But I've been fighting this for some time now
> and I can't believe how hard TI made this process.  I think I finally
> understand the pieces, but I still can't get from here to there... at
> least on my PC.  I guess I'll try the rPi next.

A long time ago, when the MSP430 first came out, I bought one of their 
little USB development boards, and found the process seamless.

But -- that was a long time ago.

I hope things get better.  Sometimes you wonder if companies really want 
to sell their products.

-- 

Tim Wescott
Wescott Design Services
http://www.wescottdesign.com

I'm looking for work -- see my website!

I found another way to download to the target. Seems TI has a web page
to support this. Really? A web page to control a target board on my
PC? Ok...

I gave it a try and of course there are drivers to download. But this
is handled automatically. Well, mostly. The first driver downloaded
and installed ok. In the process it seemed to install the second
driver. When I clicked the final button to refresh the page I am still
prompted with a message that I need to download and install the second
piece of software. Ok, I guess it didn't get loaded before, it must
have been something else with a similar name. I click to download and
install the second package. Refresh. Same message.

I tried this a couple more times before I realized, it was downloading,
but not installing! So I manually ran the installation and refreshed
the page. Now it seems responsive. I asked it to verify the firmware
on the target. It takes some time because it has to install yet more
stuff. Finally it starts running and gives an error... :-*

Seems this board is old enough the emulator firmware is not up to date.
It wants to update that... do I have an emulator for the emulator? I
guess the flash emulator emulates itself? :-/

Ok, some time and lots of blinking red LEDs later, the board seems to be
updated and it completes my request to verify the "out of box" firmware.
You got it! An error! It fails confirmation. I guess that firmware
is also out of date. Do I dare update the firmware? In for a penny...

That worked, the image updated and now verifies and the board continues
working the same as far as I can tell. I wonder what was changed in the
OOB firmware?

I still need to get the FET USB driver working. Can anyone else
download the ti_msp430driver_setup_1_00_01_00.zip file from
http://software-dl.ti.com/msp430/msp430_public_sw/mcu/msp430/MSP430_FET_Drivers/latest/index_FDS.html

If I know it is hosed for everyone and not just me I will know better
how to get help from TI. I've tried two of my four browsers. I really
don't want to go on a browser hunt. I'm pretty sure it's TI.

Until then I'll work on getting things running with the rPi I suppose.

Rick C