On Monday, October 9, 2017 at 9:47:45 AM UTC-7, John Speth wrote:
> On 10/3/2017 1:39 PM, John Speth wrote:
> > Hi-
> >
> > My request takes me way outside my knowledge area so please pardon my
> > poor vocabulary.
> >
> > I'm working on a headless wireless Apache server device (no mouse,
> > keyboard, or display). I need a way to externally make it join a
> > network. Externally means some software entity that does not initiate
> > the connection process from within the device. That software entity
> > could be a phone or PC app.
> >
> > I'm looking for a way that a first time user of the device can get it
> > connected to his WiFi network. I suppose that would have to be the
> > process of identifying the network to join and then entering the network
> > password.
> >
> > Can anyone think of some ways it can be achieved?
> >
> > Thanks - John
>
> Thanks everyone for the helpful comments. I have a few good ideas to
> research.
>
> I recently acquired a Nest cam and I like the method it uses to bond to
> the user. What happens "under the covers" is guesswork but the process
> is pretty simple. The user plugs it into USB and is presented with a
> readonly USB mass storage device which contains an installation program.
> The program takes the user to a web site where the bonding process is
> completed with web based wizard managed from Nest. That's the point at
> which the user selects a network and enters the password. Other
> application specific setup follows. Once the bonding is completed the
> camera works from WiFi only.
>
> JJS
Sound like a reasonable setup. OTOH, i recently got a WiFi ON/OFF switch that is not.
I rented the switch from a company in China. Since it is useless without their server, i don't really own the hardware. I have to download their app and connect to their server. Press a button on the box and syncing the IP of the box and my app. Then enter my WiFi code on their server.
BIG RED SECURITY RISK:
1. They got my email address, even though it's for junk mail only account.
2. They got my WiFI code and my IP address.
3. They got a box behind my firewall with 1 and 2.
Just using it for testing and disable it soon.
Reply by Dimiter_Popoff●October 18, 20172017-10-18
On 18.10.2017 г. 13:31, Boudewijn Dijkstra wrote:
> Op Fri, 06 Oct 2017 12:39:14 +0200 schreef Dimiter_Popoff <dp@tgi-sci.com>:
>> On 06.10.2017 г. 10:57, Boudewijn Dijkstra wrote:
>>> Op Thu, 05 Oct 2017 13:35:37 +0200 schreef Dimiter_Popoff
>>> <dp@tgi-sci.com>:
>>>> On 04.10.2017 г. 10:39, Jack wrote:
>>>>> On Tuesday, October 3, 2017 at 10:39:12 PM UTC+2, John Speth wrote:
>>>>>
>>>> I have seen many wifi modules lately and _still_ none which will accept
>>>> IP traffic without enforcing its tcp layer on its host. Anyone any luck
>>>> with that? They all must have a layer even below IP, looking pretty
>>>> much
>>>> like Ethernet - that would be best of course.
>>>> But none I have seen document (or perhaps even do not expose to the
>>>> interface) these layers.
>>>
>>> Here are a few:
>>>
>>> https://www.segger.com/products/connectivity/embosip/add-ons/wifi-support/wifi-modules
>>>
>>>
>>
>> Thanks, but I saw no documentation of the interface to the host at all.
>
> At the bottom of each module tab there is a 'Vendor link' with
> documentation and reference designs.
>
>
>
Of course I followed these links. No module which would do IP (or
below) packets documented, nothing different from what I have seen
over the past 5-10 years.
But this brings me to another thought. Since so many make wifi
modules just to sell their tcp stack the lower level can't be
that hard to do, has here anybody been dealing with the raw
radio interface of these things?
Dimiter
======================================================
Dimiter Popoff, TGI http://www.tgi-sci.com
======================================================
http://www.flickr.com/photos/didi_tgi/
Reply by Boudewijn Dijkstra●October 18, 20172017-10-18
Op Fri, 06 Oct 2017 12:39:14 +0200 schreef Dimiter_Popoff <dp@tgi-sci.com>:
> On 06.10.2017 г. 10:57, Boudewijn Dijkstra wrote:
>> Op Thu, 05 Oct 2017 13:35:37 +0200 schreef Dimiter_Popoff
>> <dp@tgi-sci.com>:
>>> On 04.10.2017 г. 10:39, Jack wrote:
>>>> On Tuesday, October 3, 2017 at 10:39:12 PM UTC+2, John Speth wrote:
>>>>
>>> I have seen many wifi modules lately and _still_ none which will accept
>>> IP traffic without enforcing its tcp layer on its host. Anyone any luck
>>> with that? They all must have a layer even below IP, looking pretty
>>> much
>>> like Ethernet - that would be best of course.
>>> But none I have seen document (or perhaps even do not expose to the
>>> interface) these layers.
>>
>> Here are a few:
>>
>> https://www.segger.com/products/connectivity/embosip/add-ons/wifi-support/wifi-modules
>>
>
> Thanks, but I saw no documentation of the interface to the host at all.
At the bottom of each module tab there is a 'Vendor link' with
documentation and reference designs.
--
(Remove the obvious prefix to reply privately.)
Gemaakt met Opera's e-mailprogramma: http://www.opera.com/mail/
Reply by ●October 16, 20172017-10-16
Den tirsdag den 3. oktober 2017 kl. 22.39.12 UTC+2 skrev John Speth:
> Hi-
>
> My request takes me way outside my knowledge area so please pardon my
> poor vocabulary.
>
> I'm working on a headless wireless Apache server device (no mouse,
> keyboard, or display). I need a way to externally make it join a
> network. Externally means some software entity that does not initiate
> the connection process from within the device. That software entity
> could be a phone or PC app.
>
> I'm looking for a way that a first time user of the device can get it
> connected to his WiFi network. I suppose that would have to be the
> process of identifying the network to join and then entering the network
> password.
>
> Can anyone think of some ways it can be achieved?
what I've seen people do with ESP8266 wifi modules is that if it isn't connected to a network it will switch to AP mode and serve a webpage with a list of available networks to choose from and store for the the next boot
Reply by John Speth●October 9, 20172017-10-09
On 10/3/2017 1:39 PM, John Speth wrote:
> Hi-
>
> My request takes me way outside my knowledge area so please pardon my
> poor vocabulary.
>
> I'm working on a headless wireless Apache server device (no mouse,
> keyboard, or display). I need a way to externally make it join a
> network. Externally means some software entity that does not initiate
> the connection process from within the device. That software entity
> could be a phone or PC app.
>
> I'm looking for a way that a first time user of the device can get it
> connected to his WiFi network. I suppose that would have to be the
> process of identifying the network to join and then entering the network
> password.
>
> Can anyone think of some ways it can be achieved?
>
> Thanks - John
Thanks everyone for the helpful comments. I have a few good ideas to
research.
I recently acquired a Nest cam and I like the method it uses to bond to
the user. What happens "under the covers" is guesswork but the process
is pretty simple. The user plugs it into USB and is presented with a
readonly USB mass storage device which contains an installation program.
The program takes the user to a web site where the bonding process is
completed with web based wizard managed from Nest. That's the point at
which the user selects a network and enters the password. Other
application specific setup follows. Once the bonding is completed the
camera works from WiFi only.
JJS
Reply by Dimiter_Popoff●October 6, 20172017-10-06
On 06.10.2017 г. 10:57, Boudewijn Dijkstra wrote:
> Op Thu, 05 Oct 2017 13:35:37 +0200 schreef Dimiter_Popoff <dp@tgi-sci.com>:
>> On 04.10.2017 г. 10:39, Jack wrote:
>>> On Tuesday, October 3, 2017 at 10:39:12 PM UTC+2, John Speth wrote:
>>>
>> I have seen many wifi modules lately and _still_ none which will accept
>> IP traffic without enforcing its tcp layer on its host. Anyone any luck
>> with that? They all must have a layer even below IP, looking pretty much
>> like Ethernet - that would be best of course.
>> But none I have seen document (or perhaps even do not expose to the
>> interface) these layers.
>
> Here are a few:
>
> https://www.segger.com/products/connectivity/embosip/add-ons/wifi-support/wifi-modules/
>
>
>
Thanks, but I saw no documentation of the interface to the host at all.
Dimiter
Reply by Boudewijn Dijkstra●October 6, 20172017-10-06
Op Thu, 05 Oct 2017 13:35:37 +0200 schreef Dimiter_Popoff <dp@tgi-sci.com>:
> On 04.10.2017 г. 10:39, Jack wrote:
>> On Tuesday, October 3, 2017 at 10:39:12 PM UTC+2, John Speth wrote:
>>
> I have seen many wifi modules lately and _still_ none which will accept
> IP traffic without enforcing its tcp layer on its host. Anyone any luck
> with that? They all must have a layer even below IP, looking pretty much
> like Ethernet - that would be best of course.
> But none I have seen document (or perhaps even do not expose to the
> interface) these layers.
> On Tuesday, October 3, 2017 at 10:39:12 PM UTC+2, John Speth wrote:
>
>> I'm looking for a way that a first time user of the device can get it
>> connected to his WiFi network. I suppose that would have to be the
>> process of identifying the network to join and then entering the network
>> password.
>>
>> Can anyone think of some ways it can be achieved?
>
> upon reset the AHS (Apache Headless Server) will create his own network (with default SSID and password).
> The user will connect to the AHS network, connect to the web server configuration page, fill the fields (real network name, password, use of a DHCP server, avahi/zeroconf name, etc). Press Enter. AHS will restart with new configuration and hopefully connect to real network.
> If errors happens, press reset button for 10 seconds (or automatically restart the AHS with reset conf) and start again.
>
> Bye Jack
>
You mean the wifi module will initially act as a hotspot to do that?
I guess they are all capable of that, why not really. Should work fine.
I have seen many wifi modules lately and _still_ none which will accept
IP traffic without enforcing its tcp layer on its host. Anyone any luck
with that? They all must have a layer even below IP, looking pretty much
like Ethernet - that would be best of course.
But none I have seen document (or perhaps even do not expose to the
interface) these layers.
Dimiter
======================================================
Dimiter Popoff, TGI http://www.tgi-sci.com
======================================================
http://www.flickr.com/photos/didi_tgi/
Reply by Theo Markettos●October 4, 20172017-10-04
Jack <jack4747@gmail.com> wrote:
> upon reset the AHS (Apache Headless Server) will create his own network
> (with default SSID and password). The user will connect to the AHS
> network, connect to the web server configuration page, fill the fields
> (real network name, password, use of a DHCP server, avahi/zeroconf name,
> etc). Press Enter. AHS will restart with new configuration and hopefully
> connect to real network. If errors happens, press reset button for 10
> seconds (or automatically restart the AHS with reset conf) and start
> again.
It would probably help to have a tri-colour LED for this:
Blue: in setup mode, or password didn't work and device reverted to setup mode
Red: password worked previously but the network is currently down
Green: password accepted and the connection is working
On factory reset, you stay in blue state until you achieve a successful
connection. Then the device flips out of configuration mode and goes either
red or green. It never goes into blue mode until somebody does the
factory reset process again.
This way prevents the device from reverting to configuration mode every time
the wifi is down. Or, for more fun, every time an attacker threw out enough
noise to force the wifi offline, at which point the device would broadcast
its default network with the default password.
Theo
Reply by George Neuner●October 4, 20172017-10-04
On Tue, 3 Oct 2017 15:58:15 -0700, John Speth <johnspeth@yahoo.com>
wrote:
>On 10/3/2017 2:42 PM, Rob Gaddi wrote:
>
>> Could you use a WPS pushbutton?
>
>That's a worthy suggestion. I never heard of that before. It's
>definitely worth looking into. Thanks.
One problem with WPS is that anyone even halfway security conscious
has disabled it in their router.
https://routersecurity.org/wps.php
George