> On 2/9/2020 0:49, Les Cargill wrote:
>> Dimiter_Popoff wrote:
>>> On 2/8/2020 17:14, Dave Nadler wrote:
>>>> Yikes.
>>>> https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2020/02/07/boeing-starliner-software-problems/
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> I suppose people here will be as little surprised as I was.
>>> Most if not all people who could do a decent job at this likely at least
>>> read this group...
>>> Boeing must have had to take web programmers and
>>> the like to be able to get to something at all.
>>
>> Something like that. Population of "developers" doubles
>> every five years. Not everybody has the personality defects
>> necessary to think in terms of (contextually) correct software
>> operation.
>>
>>> Hopefully they are smart enough to start the coding from zero with
>>> the right people before trying to put people on that capsule.
>>>
>>
>> The acquisition process will cost many orders of magnitude more
>> than the actual effort.
>>
>> I know of contracts where hundreds, perhaps thousands of people
>> were involved, but only as few as five people could actually
>> do the work.
>
> When I was younger and naiver I thought this was the modus operandi
> only of institutes in the communistic block (without the "perhaps"
> re the "thousands" :-).
>
The old joke is - "communism is man oppressing man. Capitalism is
the opposite..."
I've worked at places where just the contract pursuit used up the
entire value of the contract.
> Of course any company which grows big enough and outlives by
> a certain amount of time its founders becomes more or less the same
> mess and eventually dies.
>
We can hope they die. They turn into zombies these days. Look
at Boing... er, Boeing.
>>
>> --
>> Les Cargill
>>
>
> Dimiter
>
>
Reply by Dimiter_Popoff●February 8, 20202020-02-08
On 2/9/2020 0:49, Les Cargill wrote:
> Dimiter_Popoff wrote:
>> On 2/8/2020 17:14, Dave Nadler wrote:
>>> Yikes.
>>> https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2020/02/07/boeing-starliner-software-problems/
>>>
>>>
>>
>> I suppose people here will be as little surprised as I was.
>> Most if not all people who could do a decent job at this likely at least
>> read this group...
>> Boeing must have had to take web programmers and
>> the like to be able to get to something at all.
>
> Something like that. Population of "developers" doubles
> every five years. Not everybody has the personality defects
> necessary to think in terms of (contextually) correct software
> operation.
>
>> Hopefully they are smart enough to start the coding from zero with
>> the right people before trying to put people on that capsule.
>>
>
> The acquisition process will cost many orders of magnitude more
> than the actual effort.
>
> I know of contracts where hundreds, perhaps thousands of people
> were involved, but only as few as five people could actually
> do the work.
When I was younger and naiver I thought this was the modus operandi
only of institutes in the communistic block (without the "perhaps"
re the "thousands" :-).
Of course any company which grows big enough and outlives by
a certain amount of time its founders becomes more or less the same
mess and eventually dies.
>
> --
> Les Cargill
>
Dimiter
Reply by Les Cargill●February 8, 20202020-02-08
Dimiter_Popoff wrote:
> On 2/8/2020 17:14, Dave Nadler wrote:
>> Yikes.
>> https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2020/02/07/boeing-starliner-software-problems/
>>
>>
>
> I suppose people here will be as little surprised as I was.
> Most if not all people who could do a decent job at this likely at least
> read this group...
> Boeing must have had to take web programmers and
> the like to be able to get to something at all.
Something like that. Population of "developers" doubles
every five years. Not everybody has the personality defects
necessary to think in terms of (contextually) correct software
operation.
> Hopefully they are smart enough to start the coding from zero with
> the right people before trying to put people on that capsule.
>
The acquisition process will cost many orders of magnitude more
than the actual effort.
I know of contracts where hundreds, perhaps thousands of people
were involved, but only as few as five people could actually
do the work.
I suppose people here will be as little surprised as I was.
Most if not all people who could do a decent job at this likely at least
read this group...
Boeing must have had to take web programmers and
the like to be able to get to something at all.
Hopefully they are smart enough to start the coding from zero with
the right people before trying to put people on that capsule.
Dimiter
======================================================
Dimiter Popoff, TGI http://www.tgi-sci.com
======================================================
http://www.flickr.com/photos/didi_tgi/
Reply by Dave Nadler●February 8, 20202020-02-08
On Saturday, February 8, 2020 at 12:34:16 PM UTC-5, Rick C wrote:
> I don't know about the "again" part. The problems with the Boeing 737 MAX...
I wasn't specifically referring to Boeing, rather frequent software
engineering failures in general...
Reply by Rick C●February 8, 20202020-02-08
On Saturday, February 8, 2020 at 10:14:43 AM UTC-5, Dave Nadler wrote:
I don't know about the "again" part. The problems with the Boeing 737 MAX were not incorrect software. It was a system design issue, faulty thinking when planning the software. The software did exactly what it was intended to do.
Meanwhile they've found problems with Airbus and other aircraft with similar potential results. Boeing got the press because the worse case actually happened.
--
Rick C.
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