No offense or flame intended but I think
this topic is dead, let’s quit with the pissing match and the Government
spying crap.
Ryan
From:
r...@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:r...@yahoogroups.com] On
Behalf Of IDES Sent: Tuesday, January 17, 2006
9:31 AM To: r...@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [rabbit-semi]
Changing MAC address
All Internet traffic is liken to a finger print.
The trace route is unique.
If two machines were to be on the same ISP, they will never have the identical
trace route, prove me wrong if you can :-X
.
The FBI uses all traffic information, including the traffic information from
Internet routers to track evil packets and people, of all kinds.
No one is safe from this type of monitoring, not even YOU =-O .
Follow the rules of the U.S.A.
and do not break any laws, and you will be left along to prosper as you may,
other wise they will be watching you very closely.
Just leave the MAC addresses alone, they have a purpose and a need to be what
they are.
If you are worried about Intranet/Internet security, do the Crypto, not the
MAC'o, the Crypto has 64 Quadrillion encryption codes available, much more
than
MAC or IP.
ZWorld/Rabbit Semi sells an encryption module which is royalty free and very
cost effective, and on top of that easy to implement.
My 2 cents worth! With a penny change! :-)
JIMA
Maurits van de Kamp wrote:
242, 3400 AE, IJsselstein, The
Netherlands
Reply by Maurits van de Kamp●January 17, 20062006-01-17
> If two machines were to be on the same ISP, they will never have the > identical trace route, prove me wrong if you can
:-X .
Put two machines behind a masquerading router, and they will have the
same traceroute (since they will both appear to "be" the router).
You
cannot see the MAC address outside of your LAN because it will no longer
have any meaning once it leaves your LAN. MAC addresses are part of
ethernet addressing, not IP addressing.
> The FBI uses all traffic information, including
the traffic
> information from Internet routers to track evil packets and people, of
> all kinds.
>
> No one is safe from this type of monitoring, not even YOU =-O .
Technically that would be possible, but if you see how difficult they
still find it to track down people that blatantly post pictures of their
own rape victims, exposing their IP addresses, you'll notice that
we're
far away from your slightly paranoid view. ;o)
> Follow the rules of the U.S.A. and do not break
any laws, and you will
> be left along to prosper as you may, other wise they will be watching
> you very closely.
What you do with MAC addresses only affects your local net and has
absolutely nothing to do with the outside world (unless you connect
directly to some big backbone through ethernet) and "the FBI" will
not
see it. You're not even breaking any laws. You're just breaking
your
network if you happen to have a duplicate Mac address. Besides, as I
said, MAC addressing allows for dynamic temporary addresses, with the
second bit set to 1.
This changes with IPv6 of course.. ;o)
Maurits.
Reply by IDES●January 17, 20062006-01-17
All Internet traffic is liken to a finger print.
The trace route is unique.
If two machines were to be on the same ISP, they will never have the
identical trace route, prove me wrong if you can :-X .
The FBI uses all traffic information, including the traffic information
from Internet routers to track evil packets and people, of all kinds.
No one is safe from this type of monitoring, not even YOU =-O .
Follow the rules of the U.S.A. and do not break any laws, and you will
be left along to prosper as you may, other wise they will be watching
you very closely.
Just leave the MAC addresses alone, they have a purpose and a need to
be what they are.
If you are worried about Intranet/Internet security, do the Crypto, not
the MAC'o, the Crypto has 64 Quadrillion encryption codes available,
much more than MAC or IP.
ZWorld/Rabbit Semi sells an encryption module which is royalty free and
very cost effective, and on top of that easy to implement.
No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.371 / Virus Database: 267.14.18/230 - Release Date: 1/14/2006
Reply by Maurits van de Kamp●January 17, 20062006-01-17
> Isn't the MAC Address unique by definition
(or supposed to be).
Yes, and you're supposed to buy them. Except if the second bit is 1,
because then it is a logically assigned Mac-address that is temporarily
valid (and every device (or the FBI for that matter) ;) should be aware
that this address can not be used to identify hardware).
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Reply by Richard Wayman●January 12, 20062006-01-12
Isn't the MAC Address unique by definition
(or supposed to be). Further, there are many devices you may not have
thought also have a MAC Address, like Cable Modems, Satellite Receivers, Set-Top
boxes etc. I have been involved in "Clean-up" of problems created by
someone who inadvertently got an address index wrong. The result is a huge
problem that is not easy to find.
Controlling the address for a few hundred
devices is not difficult. But over time, with a very large address
population, it is a major deal. Imagine the poor guys that share a common
MAC address in a large Cable System. Cust(1) turns has HBO turned
off. Cust(2) calls and complains because his HBO was turned off...Customer
Service turns it back on. Do you think Cust(1) is going to complain about
receiving HBO for FREE...?
Rich
----- Original Message -----
From: IDES
To: r...@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, January 11, 2006 2:51
PM
Subject: Re: [rabbit-semi] Changing MAC
address
First: we should ALL remember that the FBI and other Cyber
Security agencies use the MAC address to prosicute child porn cases. the MAC and
the associated ISP are unique to each case. To find any MAC and ISP routed
packet present on the same network would cause 1000's of problems to the
security.
There should NEVER be a reason to change a MAC address on
any networked device.
If you are trying to setup a privite network
with a sequencial MAC numbering system to insure security, then you would be
better served to control the Intranet IP address assignments which is easily
controlled, along with the SNM for grouping.
My 2cents! :-)
JIMA
Don
Starr wrote:
> Thanks for that clarification. But...don't you
have the same potential
> problem as you do when if you create your own MAC
addresses? As long as
> you are on your own private network (behind a router?) you can use any
> MAC you want. But should the equipment ever be used on a public network
> you could have problems? And who knows how a customer will try to use
> your equipment?
If you're connecting any device directly to a public network, and
the
connection method allows MAC addresses through (e.g. a Level 2 bridge),
you're asking for all kinds of trouble, anyway. The fact that your MAC
address might be duplicated somewhere in the world is (or should be)
the least of your worries. All of your broadcast traffic is now on some
part of that public network, and anybody on that "part" can now send
directed traffic at your device.
(Exceptions, of course, for devices that are _designed_ to be connected
to the public network, like routers themselves.)
--------
YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
--------
No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.371 / Virus Database: 267.14.17/226 - Release Date: 1/10/2006
Reply by Kelly●January 11, 20062006-01-11
Changing the MAC address of most modern devices is trivial depending on your
OS. FreeBSD and Linux both let you do it from ifconfig. I seem to remember that
the XP driver for my Marvell GigEth lets me change the MAC as well. Note that
these methods don't change the power-up MAC, but let you change the MAC at
run time.
My employer changes the default (power-up) MAC on the hardware we resell to (a)
use our OUI so that people dumping the traffic can tell it comes from our
appliance and to (b) encode the unit's serial number and to (c) encode
which ethernet device is which since the software can number the interfaces
differently from one OS revision to the next.
We change the default MAC address using a program supplied by our motherboard
manufacturer, but they seem to have received it from Intel. Aside from having to
boot the box from a floppy, it works fine.
Kelly
Reply by Aaron Carlson●January 11, 20062006-01-11
>There should NEVER be a reason to change a MAC address on any networked
>device.
There are several good reasons why someone would change the MAC address.
First of all, MAC address ranges can be purchased. If I purchased my own
range of MAC addresses and I want to use them, I should. If I am making my
own rabbit boards, they do not come with their own MAC address and I would
have to set the MAC address.
Also, there are several good reasons to duplicate a MAC address. It may be
neccessary to replace a piece of network equipment with a custom module.
Some proprietary hardware uses fixed MAC addresses and this would be the
only way of replacing that equipment. Perhaps you are testing network
security via intercepting packets intended for a certain MAC.
I know of several network admins who lock each port on their managed
switches to a certain MAC address. If a NIC goes out and needs to be
replaced while the network admin is not around to update the switch, or if
he has lost the password, etc the NIC can be forced to a certain MAC
address. This setting is available in many drivers and linux.
As others have pointed out, MACs do leave networks. Routers route IP
traffic only. If you have a router separating your network from the world
then you can do whatever you want with the MACs on your network equipment.
You should however probably make sure you don't conflict with MACs on
your
own network. They run on equipment you own and/or designed. If you want to
have sequential MACs, encode some data into the MAC, etc, it is up to you.
-Aaron
> --- Ursprgliche Nachricht ---
> Von: IDES <jima@jima...>
> An: rabbit-semi@rabb...
> Betreff: Re: [rabbit-semi] Changing MAC address
> Datum: Wed, 11 Jan 2006 16:51:16 -0600
>
>First: we should ALL remember that the FBI and other Cyber Security
>agencies use the MAC address to prosicute child porn cases. the MAC and
>the associated ISP are unique to each case. To find any MAC and ISP
>routed packet present on the same network would cause 1000's of
problems
>to the security.
>There should NEVER be a reason to change a MAC
address on any networked
>device.
>If you are trying to setup a privite network with a
sequencial MAC
>numbering system to insure security, then you would be better served to
>control the Intranet IP address assignments which is easily controlled,
>along with the SNM for grouping.
>My 2cents! :-)
>JIMA
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Reply by Don Starr●January 11, 20062006-01-11
> First: we should ALL remember that the FBI and other Cyber Security > agencies use the MAC address to prosicute child
porn cases. the MAC
> and the associated ISP are unique to each case. To find any MAC and
> ISP routed packet present on the same network would cause 1000's of
> problems to the security.
Perhaps you're thinking of IP addresses, not MAC addresses. In many
(most?) cases, MAC addresses aren't passed onto the public network;
they stay within the local network. For example, no MAC address on
my LAN ever leaves my LAN.
MAC addresses would be almost useless in prosecution, anyway, given
that they're so easily changed.
Reply by Ryan Alswede●January 11, 20062006-01-11
I’ve heard of people that have taken
obsolete NIC cards and taken their MAC address for their own custom
hardware.Granted the MAC manufacture ID won’t
make sense but it was unique and valid when you are the one holding the original
card it came from.
Ryan
From:
r...@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:r...@yahoogroups.com]
On Behalf Of IDES Sent: Wednesday, January 11, 2006
4:51 PM To:
r...@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [rabbit-semi]
Changing
MAC address
First: we should ALL remember that the FBI and other
Cyber Security agencies use the MAC address to prosicute child porn cases. the
MAC and the associated ISP are unique to each case. To find any MAC and
ISP routed packet present on the same network would cause 1000's of
problems to
the security.
There should NEVER be a reason to change a MAC address on any networked
device.
If you are trying to setup a privite network with a sequencial MAC numbering
system to insure security, then you would be better served to control the
Intranet IP address assignments which is easily controlled, along with the SNM
for grouping.
My 2cents! :-)
JIMA
Don Starr wrote:
Reply by IDES●January 11, 20062006-01-11
First: we should ALL remember that the FBI and other Cyber Security
agencies use the MAC address to prosicute child porn cases. the MAC and
the associated ISP are unique to each case. To find any MAC and ISP
routed packet present on the same network would cause 1000's of
problems to the security.
There should NEVER be a reason to change a MAC address on any networked
device.
If you are trying to setup a privite network with a sequencial MAC
numbering system to insure security, then you would be better served to
control the Intranet IP address assignments which is easily controlled,
along with the SNM for grouping.
My 2cents! :-)
JIMA
Don Starr wrote:
> Thanks for that clarification. But...don't you have the
same potential
> problem as you do when if you create your own MAC
addresses? As long as
> you are on your own private network (behind a router?) you can use any
> MAC you want. But should the equipment ever be used on a public network
> you could have problems? And who knows how a customer will try to use
> your equipment?
If you're connecting any device directly to a public network, and
the
connection method allows MAC addresses through (e.g. a Level 2 bridge),
you're asking for all kinds of trouble, anyway. The fact that your MAC
address might be duplicated somewhere in the world is (or should be)
the least of your worries. All of your broadcast traffic is now on some
part of that public network, and anybody on that "part" can now send
directed traffic at your device.
(Exceptions, of course, for devices that are _designed_ to be connected
to the public network, like routers themselves.)
--------
YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
--------
No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.371 / Virus Database: 267.14.17/226 - Release Date: 1/10/2006