Oliver Wong wrote:
> "linnix" <me@linnix.info-for.us> wrote in message
> news:1133994317.471339.266390@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
> > Please
> > provide links to successful implementation of J2SE on 64M memory.
>
>     Wouldn't you know it -- immediately after my post saying I can't find a
> successful implementation of J2SE on 64MB DRAM, I find one:
>
> http://www.8d.com/8DTech.pdf

These are all server units (no real GUI), except for the parking
locator.  There is no indication of J2SE running on the parking locator
either.

> 
>     - Oliver

Oliver Wong wrote:
> "linnix" <me@linnix.info-for.us> wrote in message
> news:1133994317.471339.266390@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
> > Please
> > provide links to successful implementation of J2SE on 64M memory.
>
>     Wouldn't you know it -- immediately after my post saying I can't find a
> successful implementation of J2SE on 64MB DRAM, I find one:
>
> http://www.8d.com/8DTech.pdf

Servers.

>
>     - Oliver

You can pick and choose the context if you want.  Let me repeat this:
the requirements are for a VGA grade GUI (not handicapped 1/4 VGA) with
real Java (not subset of Java) on 64M of code space (NOR flash or RAM).

Oliver Wong wrote:
> "linnix" <me@linnix.info-for.us> wrote in message
> news:1133994317.471339.266390@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
> > Please
> > provide links to successful implementation of J2SE on 64M memory.
>
>     Wouldn't you know it -- immediately after my post saying I can't find a
> successful implementation of J2SE on 64MB DRAM, I find one:
>
> http://www.8d.com/8DTech.pdf

Servers.

>
>     - Oliver

You can pick and choose the context if you want.  Let me repeat this:
the requirements are for a VGA grade GUI (not handicapped 1/4 VGA) with
real Java (not subset of Java) on 64M of code space (NOR flash or RAM).

"linnix" <me@linnix.info-for.us> wrote in message 
news:1133994317.471339.266390@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
> Please
> provide links to successful implementation of J2SE on 64M memory.

    Wouldn't you know it -- immediately after my post saying I can't find a 
successful implementation of J2SE on 64MB DRAM, I find one:

http://www.8d.com/8DTech.pdf

    - Oliver

"linnix" <me@linnix.info-for.us> wrote in message 
news:1133994317.471339.266390@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
>
> I have not dissmissed solutions that meet the requirements.

    The OP's post finally came through, and I see that (s)he wrote that she 
wants J2SE or J2ME, so actually, yes, you did dismiss solutions that met the 
requirement. But my main gripe was not whether or not you dismissed 
solutions that met the requirement, but rather that you dismissed solutions 
without actually reading about them, and then proceed to chatise me for not 
reading the original post after I had already said I wasn't able to see the 
original post.

    Anyway, it doesn't matter to me. There's two directions that I can think 
of for this thread can go from here. One is that we get into an argument of 
who was right and who was wrong. The other is that we try to post 
information that the OP may find helpful. I'm going to try to steer the 
thread back towards the latter. We'll see what happens from there.

> Please
> provide links to successful implementation of J2SE on 64M memory.  I
> can provide a 128M J2SE system, but not on 64M.

    I couldn't find an implementation of J2SE, but I found one for 
PersonalJava. The Sharp Zaurus PDA has 64MB of RAM, and supports 
PersonalJava via the Jeode JVM. You can see pictures of it at 
http://www.linuxdevices.com/articles/AT2134869242.html.

    In case (like me) you don't know much about PersonalJava, from Sun's 
website, 
http://developers.sun.com/techtopics/mobility/personal/articles/ztutorial/:
<quote>
In terms of target device capacity, PersonalJava sits between J2SE and the 
CLDC/MIDP stack of J2ME.
</quote>

    So it's not quite J2SE, but it's more than J2ME. PersonalJava might be 
another route the OP may wish to look at if (s)he finds (s)he cannot fit 
J2SE on the device in question.

    There also happens to be a guide to Java on embedded Linux located at 
http://www.linuxdevices.com/articles/AT8918758707.html . The OP may be 
particularly interested in part 4, entitled "Java products of interest to 
Embedded Linux based system developers".

    - Oliver

Oliver Wong wrote:
> "linnix" <me@linnix.info-for.us> wrote in message
> news:1133987328.902483.312010@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
> > Oliver Wong wrote:
> >> See, for example the MatchBox
> >> project: http://projects.o-hand.com/matchbox/screenshots.html with full
> >> unicode support and theme switching, and yet can run on systems with only
> >> 40MB of RAM, and the binaries themselves take up a measly 50Kb. That's
> >> kilobytes, not megabytes.
> >
> > This page mentioned quarter VGA resolution.  The OP asked for touch
> > screen VGA.
>
>     Yes, the page *mentions* quarter VGA resolution. It also has screenshots
> for the Nokia 770 which is of a higher resolution, and the Sony U71 Tablet

128M flash and no Java

> PC with runs at 800x600, which exceeds VGA. In other words, MatchBox is not
> "locked" at quarter VGA, which you seemed to be implying by your post.
>
> >>     If you're running on devices even more constrained than that, there's
> >> MicroWindows: http://www.linuxdevices.com/links/LK4761626139.html which
> >> can
> >> run in 64Kb of RAM. Again, note that that's Kilobytes, not Megabytes.
> >

No talks of Java at all.

> > Without meanful GUI.
>
>     I assume you mean "meaningful". What's your definition of meaningful?

Yes, you are right.

> The site there specifically says it provides an API that is compatible with
> X Windows and Win32. Here's a short paragraph from the page I linked above:
>
...

We are not asking for window APIs.  We are asking for Java, i.e. J2SE
API.

>
> >
> >>
> >>     You can find a list of GUIs for embedded Linux at
> >> http://www.linuxdevices.com/articles/AT9202043619.html
> >>
> >>     I didn't see the original post, so I don't know what the OP is
> >> planning
> >> to do, but if it's something that involves Java 2 SE, the OP may wish to
> >> reconsider. I'm not sure Java is the best choice for memory-constrained
> >> devices; at least not J2SE.
> >
> > The OP asked for J2SE.  Perhaps you should read the post before
> > answering.
> >
>
>     As I mentioned, I did not see the original post. For whatever reasons,
> my newsgroup decided to discard it. As I also mentioned, I don't think J2SE
> is the right choice for whatever the OP wants to do, given the limited
> information I've seen in the form of quotes in your post.
>
>     Additionally, I think you are not in a good position to accuse me of not
> reading the original post when it seems to me that you dismissed the
> solutions I provided without actually reading the URLs I linked to.

I have not dissmissed solutions that meet the requirements.  Please
provide links to successful implementation of J2SE on 64M memory.  I
can provide a 128M J2SE system, but not on 64M.  Sure, you can run it
with 64M and 64M swap file on Flash, but don't forget to replace the
flash every couple of months.

> 
>     - Oliver

"linnix" <me@linnix.info-for.us> wrote in message 
news:1133987328.902483.312010@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
> Oliver Wong wrote:
>> See, for example the MatchBox
>> project: http://projects.o-hand.com/matchbox/screenshots.html with full
>> unicode support and theme switching, and yet can run on systems with only
>> 40MB of RAM, and the binaries themselves take up a measly 50Kb. That's
>> kilobytes, not megabytes.
>
> This page mentioned quarter VGA resolution.  The OP asked for touch
> screen VGA.

    Yes, the page *mentions* quarter VGA resolution. It also has screenshots 
for the Nokia 770 which is of a higher resolution, and the Sony U71 Tablet 
PC with runs at 800x600, which exceeds VGA. In other words, MatchBox is not 
"locked" at quarter VGA, which you seemed to be implying by your post.

>>     If you're running on devices even more constrained than that, there's
>> MicroWindows: http://www.linuxdevices.com/links/LK4761626139.html which 
>> can
>> run in 64Kb of RAM. Again, note that that's Kilobytes, not Megabytes.
>
> Without meanful GUI.

    I assume you mean "meaningful". What's your definition of meaningful? 
The site there specifically says it provides an API that is compatible with 
X Windows and Win32. Here's a short paragraph from the page I linked above:

<quote>
Microwindows is essentially a layered design that allows different layers to 
be used or rewritten to suite the needs of the implementation. At the lowest 
level, screen, mouse/touchpad and keyboard drivers provide access to the 
actual display and other user-input hardware. At the mid level, a portable 
graphics engine is implemented, providing support for line draws, area 
fills, polygons, clipping and color models. At the upper level, various 
API's are implemented providing access to the graphics applications 
programmer.
</quote>

According to http://www.linuxdevices.com/news/NS6390514383.html, the latest 
release now supports handwriting recognition, graphics keyboard, and a new 
window manager. What more do you need before the GUI becomes "meaningful"?


>
>>
>>     You can find a list of GUIs for embedded Linux at
>> http://www.linuxdevices.com/articles/AT9202043619.html
>>
>>     I didn't see the original post, so I don't know what the OP is 
>> planning
>> to do, but if it's something that involves Java 2 SE, the OP may wish to
>> reconsider. I'm not sure Java is the best choice for memory-constrained
>> devices; at least not J2SE.
>
> The OP asked for J2SE.  Perhaps you should read the post before
> answering.
>

    As I mentioned, I did not see the original post. For whatever reasons, 
my newsgroup decided to discard it. As I also mentioned, I don't think J2SE 
is the right choice for whatever the OP wants to do, given the limited 
information I've seen in the form of quotes in your post.

    Additionally, I think you are not in a good position to accuse me of not 
reading the original post when it seems to me that you dismissed the 
solutions I provided without actually reading the URLs I linked to.

    - Oliver

Oliver Wong wrote:
> "linnix" <me@linnix.info-for.us> wrote in message
> news:1133974525.831469.234720@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> >
> > motionanalyst@gmail.com wrote:
> >> I am much indebted for your attention and was full of gratitude.
> >>
> >> I have more quistions. I have more storage that is file system (ext2)
> >> using Compact Flash(512MB, Sandisk).
> >
> > If you have any kind of graphical output (browser and/or Java console),
> > you need to include a mininum X installation.  512M would be tight, 1G
> > would be better.  However, with any kind of GUI, 64M RAM is not enough.
> > We had a Java servlet apps that starts up with 100M without anything
> > else running.
>
>     This is simply not true. Taken literally, we had GUIs even before 1985
> when Windows 1.0 came out, and 64MB of RAM was a hell of a lot of RAM back
> in those days. But even if you restrict yourself to "modern GUIs", there are
> still plenty of lightweight ones out there. In fact, there are GUIs
> specifically designed for embedded Linux. See, for example the MatchBox
> project: http://projects.o-hand.com/matchbox/screenshots.html with full
> unicode support and theme switching, and yet can run on systems with only
> 40MB of RAM, and the binaries themselves take up a measly 50Kb. That's
> kilobytes, not megabytes.

This page mentioned quarter VGA resolution.  The OP asked for touch
screen VGA.

>
>     If you're running on devices even more constrained than that, there's
> MicroWindows: http://www.linuxdevices.com/links/LK4761626139.html which can
> run in 64Kb of RAM. Again, note that that's Kilobytes, not Megabytes.

Without meanful GUI.

>
>     You can find a list of GUIs for embedded Linux at
> http://www.linuxdevices.com/articles/AT9202043619.html
>
>     I didn't see the original post, so I don't know what the OP is planning
> to do, but if it's something that involves Java 2 SE, the OP may wish to
> reconsider. I'm not sure Java is the best choice for memory-constrained
> devices; at least not J2SE.

The OP asked for J2SE.  Perhaps you should read the post before
answering.

> 
>     - Oliver