On the contrary intelligence is necessary for good design,however the
perversion of the term by modern religious zealots trying to
misrepresent the dumb idea of a literal Adam and Eve is pathetically
moronic, and shows the diabolical lengths that some modern religious
fanatics will go to in order to brainwash our children and ensure the
future survival of their misguided beliefs.

By all means believe what you like, just remember that if your religion
is so strong it shouldn't need ramming down anybodys throat.

Al

old_cow_yellow wrote:

>"intelligent design" is the most stupid thing.
>
>--ocy
>
>--- In m..., Onestone wrote:
>
>
>>OF course my response was tongue in cheek, but where do you start?
>>
>>Surely then if the true gods are those who make, or know how top make
>>thje machines to start wiht, then you must go back even further, why
>>
>>
>not
>
>
>>those who know how to make the parts that make the machines, or those
>>that know how to make the machines that make the parts that make the
>>machines? having started in hardware at the age of 9 (17
>>
>>
>professionally)
>
>
>>and been involved in pure hardware design, design of the machines that
>>make the machines, design of the chemical processes that are used by
>>
>>
>the
>
>
>>accolytes of those machines to make the sacristy offerings called
>>'wafers' into more than just a day at the beach, and even been involved
>>in the design of the mystic symbols used to control those witches brew
>>concoctions that make the chemical brews go exactly where they must go
>>to create logic and control from primeval sludge, I have striven at all
>>levels of the Church of the electron to become one of its hallowed
>>saints, when finally I received the accolade I desired 'onestone' or.
>>moreritualistically written "1 St. One", the firts saint of the church!
>>
>>And your claim that those who came later and simplified the acts of
>>ritual cannot be true, surely, as is evidenced historically, the most
>>power ever wielded by a religious body devolves to those at its origins
>>who keep the layman away by creating a mythic and secret language of
>>ritual. Once that translates from its native, or 'latin', form into the
>>simpler languages understood by the masses, one starts to see the
>>fragmentation of the church, the breaking away into multiple smaller
>>groups, often fanatical about their linguistic misinterpretation of the
>>original texts, and of trivial hysterical significance.
>>
>>Archangel Al
>>
>>Augusto Einsfeldt wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>>I have to disagree, Al.
>>>
>>>The true Gods are those who make - or know how to make - the
>>>
>>>
>machines and,
>
>
>>>of course, their natural languages. Then there are the first true
>>>
>>>
>followers
>
>
>>>who understand how the machine works and its natural language, and
>>>
>>>
>use it as
>
>
>>>they wish. Next are the priests, who write some kind of bibles
>>>
>>>
>translating
>
>
>>>the simple natural language in some half eaten language that people who
>>>cannot grasp what the machine actually does can eat. Since the half
>>>
>>>
>eaten
>
>
>>>language is easy to chew the next group of people can produce
>>>
>>>
>"results" very
>
>
>>>fast.
>>>
>>>Then we have people trying to get more elaborated result from a
>>>
>>>
>machine they
>
>
>>>cannot understand using a half eaten language. When the result doesn't
>>>happen they ask for working mantras in an email group. Some will
>>>
>>>
>blame the
>
>
>>>Gods for making a machine too complex, others will blame themselves
>>>
>>>
>for not
>
>
>>>reading the bibles correctly (and shall hire a priest to do their
>>>
>>>
>job). Few
>
>
>>>people will actually study the information already available and will
>>>realize the machines are just logic functions with no room for
>>>
>>>
>magic. All
>
>
>>>they do is set or reset bits according to some very strict rules.
>>>
>>>-Augusto
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>-----Mensagem original-----
>>>De: m... [mailto:m...] Em nome de
>>>Onestone
>>>Enviada em: domingo, 11 de janeiro de 2009 07:21
>>>Para: m...
>>>Assunto: Re: [msp430] Re: A beginners programming tutorial for MSP430
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>Sorry, but no. The last I bothered looking at in this vein was a piece
>>>of c code that visually resembled the symbol Pi, and which when
>>>
>>>
>extraced
>
>
>>>through various pre-processing simply calculated pi to some number of
>>>places. Dumb stuff. That was published in the C programmers Journal in
>>>one of their Obfuscated C competitions. that, and a reference in the
>>>same issue to (C) programmers as gods, and the rest of mankind as
>>>
>>>
>ants,
>
>
>>>made me think that the guys who wrote this shit were an arrogant bunch
>>>of plonkers, so Obfuscated anything is anathema to me (except my
>>>obfusfu@#!$scated typing. Anyway anybody worth a damn knows that only
>>>those who control the machines in their native tongue are truly Gods,
>>>the rest are merely organic peripherals (just kidding folks [or am I?])
>>>
>>>Cheers
>>>
>>>Al
>>>
>>>old_cow_yellow wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>--- In msp430@yahoogroups. com,
>>>>
>>>>
>Onestone
>
>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>... It's actually one of the things that totoally put me off
>>>>>the C Programmers Journal, and the self styled C experts. I
>>>>>strife to create clearly readable efficient code, while
>>>>>this shower of idiots take pride in writing stuff that is
>>>>>totally unreadable without intense effort, when, at the end
>>>>>of the day it serves no purpose, there is no security provided
>>>>>by source code scrambling it is therefore apintless excercise
>>>>>largely in the use of define and pragmas. Boring shit in other
>>>>>words...
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>Years ago I encountered a book consisting a collection of snippets of
>>>>few lines of c-code. In each case, it challenges the reader to figure
>>>>out what the code does. I forgot the name of the book. Do you know
>>>>such a book?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>egroups.com
>
>
>>>>

"intelligent design" is the most stupid thing.

--ocy

--- In m..., Onestone wrote:
>
> OF course my response was tongue in cheek, but where do you start?
>
> Surely then if the true gods are those who make, or know how top make
> thje machines to start wiht, then you must go back even further, why
not
> those who know how to make the parts that make the machines, or those
> that know how to make the machines that make the parts that make the
> machines? having started in hardware at the age of 9 (17
professionally)
> and been involved in pure hardware design, design of the machines that
> make the machines, design of the chemical processes that are used by
the
> accolytes of those machines to make the sacristy offerings called
> 'wafers' into more than just a day at the beach, and even been involved
> in the design of the mystic symbols used to control those witches brew
> concoctions that make the chemical brews go exactly where they must go
> to create logic and control from primeval sludge, I have striven at all
> levels of the Church of the electron to become one of its hallowed
> saints, when finally I received the accolade I desired 'onestone' or.
> moreritualistically written "1 St. One", the firts saint of the church!
>
> And your claim that those who came later and simplified the acts of
> ritual cannot be true, surely, as is evidenced historically, the most
> power ever wielded by a religious body devolves to those at its origins
> who keep the layman away by creating a mythic and secret language of
> ritual. Once that translates from its native, or 'latin', form into the
> simpler languages understood by the masses, one starts to see the
> fragmentation of the church, the breaking away into multiple smaller
> groups, often fanatical about their linguistic misinterpretation of the
> original texts, and of trivial hysterical significance.
>
> Archangel Al
>
> Augusto Einsfeldt wrote:
>
> >I have to disagree, Al.
> >
> >The true Gods are those who make - or know how to make - the
machines and,
> >of course, their natural languages. Then there are the first true
followers
> >who understand how the machine works and its natural language, and
use it as
> >they wish. Next are the priests, who write some kind of bibles
translating
> >the simple natural language in some half eaten language that people who
> >cannot grasp what the machine actually does can eat. Since the half
eaten
> >language is easy to chew the next group of people can produce
"results" very
> >fast.
> >
> >Then we have people trying to get more elaborated result from a
machine they
> >cannot understand using a half eaten language. When the result doesn't
> >happen they ask for working mantras in an email group. Some will
blame the
> >Gods for making a machine too complex, others will blame themselves
for not
> >reading the bibles correctly (and shall hire a priest to do their
job). Few
> >people will actually study the information already available and will
> >realize the machines are just logic functions with no room for
magic. All
> >they do is set or reset bits according to some very strict rules.
> >
> >-Augusto
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >-----Mensagem original-----
> >De: m... [mailto:m...] Em nome de
> >Onestone
> >Enviada em: domingo, 11 de janeiro de 2009 07:21
> >Para: m...
> >Assunto: Re: [msp430] Re: A beginners programming tutorial for MSP430
> >
> >
> >
> >Sorry, but no. The last I bothered looking at in this vein was a piece
> >of c code that visually resembled the symbol Pi, and which when
extraced
> >through various pre-processing simply calculated pi to some number of
> >places. Dumb stuff. That was published in the C programmers Journal in
> >one of their Obfuscated C competitions. that, and a reference in the
> >same issue to (C) programmers as gods, and the rest of mankind as
ants,
> >made me think that the guys who wrote this shit were an arrogant bunch
> >of plonkers, so Obfuscated anything is anathema to me (except my
> >obfusfu@#!$scated typing. Anyway anybody worth a damn knows that only
> >those who control the machines in their native tongue are truly Gods,
> >the rest are merely organic peripherals (just kidding folks [or am I?])
> >
> >Cheers
> >
> >Al
> >
> >old_cow_yellow wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> >>--- In msp430@yahoogroups. com,
Onestone
> >>
> >>
> > wrote:
> >
> >
> >>
> >>
> >>>... It's actually one of the things that totoally put me off
> >>>the C Programmers Journal, and the self styled C experts. I
> >>>strife to create clearly readable efficient code, while
> >>>this shower of idiots take pride in writing stuff that is
> >>>totally unreadable without intense effort, when, at the end
> >>>of the day it serves no purpose, there is no security provided
> >>>by source code scrambling it is therefore apintless excercise
> >>>largely in the use of define and pragmas. Boring shit in other
> >>>words...
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>Years ago I encountered a book consisting a collection of snippets of
> >>few lines of c-code. In each case, it challenges the reader to figure
> >>out what the code does. I forgot the name of the book. Do you know
> >>such a book?
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>>
egroups.com
> >>
> >>

OF course my response was tongue in cheek, but where do you start?

Surely then if the true gods are those who make, or know how top make
thje machines to start wiht, then you must go back even further, why not
those who know how to make the parts that make the machines, or those
that know how to make the machines that make the parts that make the
machines? having started in hardware at the age of 9 (17 professionally)
and been involved in pure hardware design, design of the machines that
make the machines, design of the chemical processes that are used by the
accolytes of those machines to make the sacristy offerings called
'wafers' into more than just a day at the beach, and even been involved
in the design of the mystic symbols used to control those witches brew
concoctions that make the chemical brews go exactly where they must go
to create logic and control from primeval sludge, I have striven at all
levels of the Church of the electron to become one of its hallowed
saints, when finally I received the accolade I desired 'onestone' or.
moreritualistically written "1 St. One", the firts saint of the church!

And your claim that those who came later and simplified the acts of
ritual cannot be true, surely, as is evidenced historically, the most
power ever wielded by a religious body devolves to those at its origins
who keep the layman away by creating a mythic and secret language of
ritual. Once that translates from its native, or 'latin', form into the
simpler languages understood by the masses, one starts to see the
fragmentation of the church, the breaking away into multiple smaller
groups, often fanatical about their linguistic misinterpretation of the
original texts, and of trivial hysterical significance.

Archangel Al

Augusto Einsfeldt wrote:

>I have to disagree, Al.
>
>The true Gods are those who make - or know how to make - the machines and,
>of course, their natural languages. Then there are the first true followers
>who understand how the machine works and its natural language, and use it as
>they wish. Next are the priests, who write some kind of bibles translating
>the simple natural language in some half eaten language that people who
>cannot grasp what the machine actually does can eat. Since the half eaten
>language is easy to chew the next group of people can produce "results" very
>fast.
>
>Then we have people trying to get more elaborated result from a machine they
>cannot understand using a half eaten language. When the result doesn't
>happen they ask for working mantras in an email group. Some will blame the
>Gods for making a machine too complex, others will blame themselves for not
>reading the bibles correctly (and shall hire a priest to do their job). Few
>people will actually study the information already available and will
>realize the machines are just logic functions with no room for magic. All
>they do is set or reset bits according to some very strict rules.
>
>-Augusto
>
>-----Mensagem original-----
>De: m... [mailto:m...] Em nome de
>Onestone
>Enviada em: domingo, 11 de janeiro de 2009 07:21
>Para: m...
>Assunto: Re: [msp430] Re: A beginners programming tutorial for MSP430
>
>Sorry, but no. The last I bothered looking at in this vein was a piece
>of c code that visually resembled the symbol Pi, and which when extraced
>through various pre-processing simply calculated pi to some number of
>places. Dumb stuff. That was published in the C programmers Journal in
>one of their Obfuscated C competitions. that, and a reference in the
>same issue to (C) programmers as gods, and the rest of mankind as ants,
>made me think that the guys who wrote this shit were an arrogant bunch
>of plonkers, so Obfuscated anything is anathema to me (except my
>obfusfu@#!$scated typing. Anyway anybody worth a damn knows that only
>those who control the machines in their native tongue are truly Gods,
>the rest are merely organic peripherals (just kidding folks [or am I?])
>
>Cheers
>
>Al
>
>old_cow_yellow wrote:
>
>
>
>>--- In msp430@yahoogroups. com, Onestone
>>
>>
> wrote:
>
>
>>
>>
>>>... It's actually one of the things that totoally put me off
>>>the C Programmers Journal, and the self styled C experts. I
>>>strife to create clearly readable efficient code, while
>>>this shower of idiots take pride in writing stuff that is
>>>totally unreadable without intense effort, when, at the end
>>>of the day it serves no purpose, there is no security provided
>>>by source code scrambling it is therefore apintless excercise
>>>largely in the use of define and pragmas. Boring shit in other
>>>words...
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>Years ago I encountered a book consisting a collection of snippets of
>>few lines of c-code. In each case, it challenges the reader to figure
>>out what the code does. I forgot the name of the book. Do you know
>>such a book?
>>
>>
>>> egroups.com

I have to disagree, Al.

The true Gods are those who make - or know how to make - the machines and,
of course, their natural languages. Then there are the first true followers
who understand how the machine works and its natural language, and use it as
they wish. Next are the priests, who write some kind of bibles translating
the simple natural language in some half eaten language that people who
cannot grasp what the machine actually does can eat. Since the half eaten
language is easy to chew the next group of people can produce "results" very
fast.

Then we have people trying to get more elaborated result from a machine they
cannot understand using a half eaten language. When the result doesn't
happen they ask for working mantras in an email group. Some will blame the
Gods for making a machine too complex, others will blame themselves for not
reading the bibles correctly (and shall hire a priest to do their job). Few
people will actually study the information already available and will
realize the machines are just logic functions with no room for magic. All
they do is set or reset bits according to some very strict rules.

-Augusto

-----Mensagem original-----
De: m... [mailto:m...] Em nome de
Onestone
Enviada em: domingo, 11 de janeiro de 2009 07:21
Para: m...
Assunto: Re: [msp430] Re: A beginners programming tutorial for MSP430

Sorry, but no. The last I bothered looking at in this vein was a piece
of c code that visually resembled the symbol Pi, and which when extraced
through various pre-processing simply calculated pi to some number of
places. Dumb stuff. That was published in the C programmers Journal in
one of their Obfuscated C competitions. that, and a reference in the
same issue to (C) programmers as gods, and the rest of mankind as ants,
made me think that the guys who wrote this shit were an arrogant bunch
of plonkers, so Obfuscated anything is anathema to me (except my
obfusfu@#!$scated typing. Anyway anybody worth a damn knows that only
those who control the machines in their native tongue are truly Gods,
the rest are merely organic peripherals (just kidding folks [or am I?])

Cheers

Al

old_cow_yellow wrote:

>--- In msp430@yahoogroups. com, Onestone
wrote:
>>... It's actually one of the things that totoally put me off
>>the C Programmers Journal, and the self styled C experts. I
>>strife to create clearly readable efficient code, while
>>this shower of idiots take pride in writing stuff that is
>>totally unreadable without intense effort, when, at the end
>>of the day it serves no purpose, there is no security provided
>>by source code scrambling it is therefore apintless excercise
>>largely in the use of define and pragmas. Boring shit in other
>>words...
>>Years ago I encountered a book consisting a collection of snippets of
>few lines of c-code. In each case, it challenges the reader to figure
>out what the code does. I forgot the name of the book. Do you know
>such a book?
>
>
>> egroups.com

Sorry, but no. The last I bothered looking at in this vein was a piece
of c code that visually resembled the symbol Pi, and which when extraced
through various pre-processing simply calculated pi to some number of
places. Dumb stuff. That was published in the C programmers Journal in
one of their Obfuscated C competitions. that, and a reference in the
same issue to (C) programmers as gods, and the rest of mankind as ants,
made me think that the guys who wrote this shit were an arrogant bunch
of plonkers, so Obfuscated anything is anathema to me (except my
obfusfu@#!$scated typing. Anyway anybody worth a damn knows that only
those who control the machines in their native tongue are truly Gods,
the rest are merely organic peripherals (just kidding folks [or am I?])

Cheers

Al

old_cow_yellow wrote:

>--- In m..., Onestone wrote:
>
>
>>... It's actually one of the things that totoally put me off
>>the C Programmers Journal, and the self styled C experts. I
>>strife to create clearly readable efficient code, while
>>this shower of idiots take pride in writing stuff that is
>>totally unreadable without intense effort, when, at the end
>>of the day it serves no purpose, there is no security provided
>>by source code scrambling it is therefore apintless excercise
>>largely in the use of define and pragmas. Boring shit in other
>>words...
>>
>>
>>Years ago I encountered a book consisting a collection of snippets of
>few lines of c-code. In each case, it challenges the reader to figure
>out what the code does. I forgot the name of the book. Do you know
>such a book?
>

--- In m..., Onestone wrote:
>
> ... It's actually one of the things that totoally put me off
> the C Programmers Journal, and the self styled C experts. I
> strife to create clearly readable efficient code, while
> this shower of idiots take pride in writing stuff that is
> totally unreadable without intense effort, when, at the end
> of the day it serves no purpose, there is no security provided
> by source code scrambling it is therefore apintless excercise
> largely in the use of define and pragmas. Boring shit in other
> words...
>

Years ago I encountered a book consisting a collection of snippets of
few lines of c-code. In each case, it challenges the reader to figure
out what the code does. I forgot the name of the book. Do you know
such a book?

This is the dumbest thing in the world. It's actually one of the things
that totoally put me off the C Programmers Journal, and the self styled
C experts. I strife to create clearly readable efficient code, while
this shower of idiots take pride in writing stuff that is totally
unreadable without intense effort, when, at the end of the day it serves
no purpose, there is no security provided by source code scrambling it
is therefore apintless excercise largely in the use of define and
pragmas. Boring shit in other words.

Of course this is only my opinion, and I'm the only one who cares about
that.

Al

Matthias Weingart wrote:

>"bungalow_steve" :
>
>
>
>>--- In m..., Onestone wrote:
>>
>>
>>>??? to who does this seem clearer? What is a single bit shift but a
>>>multiplication by 2? Why would something visually more complex be
>>>clearer? The objective is to define single bit values NOT perform a
>>>shift operation. No such operation actually or symbolically exists.
>>>
>>>Al
>>>
>>>
>>Ha! When I first saw that 1 << 0 stuff, I first did a double take,
>>then oh, I thought wow that's bizarre, it was like, someone somewhere
>>has a sole purpose in life to make things more complex then they need
>>to be.
>>
>>Ha! This is nothing. Real master can create nearly unreadable code using C:
>
>http://www.ioccc.org/
>
>M.
>

Beginning Microcontrollers with the MSP430