On 19 Jan, in article
<1137695670.438065.311760@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
tusunov@my-deja.com wrote:
>My advise is to stay with AVR if possible.
>The free WinAVR + AVRStudio is one good point to stay there.
>I don't know where you are located, but if you are in Europe don't fool
>to go with Japanese vendors, they don't provide any support for small
>customers and you will have hard time to buy anything in quantity less
>1K, the long leadtimes are normal for them as well, unless you find
>distributor crazy enough to keep for you buffer stock.
>My advise is to stay with AVR if possible.
>The free WinAVR + AVRStudio is one good point to stay there.
>I don't know where you are located, but if you are in Europe don't fool
>to go with Japanese vendors, they don't provide any support for small
>customers and you will have hard time to buy anything in quantity less
>1K, the long leadtimes are normal for them as well, unless you find
>distributor crazy enough to keep for you buffer stock.
I don't know on what experience you base this statement, but with
regard to Renesas (as well as Fujitsu) I made totally different
experience here in Europe. Especially Renesas is very well
represented. I.e. Glyn as well as Schurich deliver those controllers
without problems in quantity 1. Glyn is offering excellent suport for
them and is even offering their own starterkits.
Markus
Reply by ●January 19, 20062006-01-19
My advise is to stay with AVR if possible.
The free WinAVR + AVRStudio is one good point to stay there.
I don't know where you are located, but if you are in Europe don't fool
to go with Japanese vendors, they don't provide any support for small
customers and you will have hard time to buy anything in quantity less
1K, the long leadtimes are normal for them as well, unless you find
distributor crazy enough to keep for you buffer stock.
Best regards
Tsvetan
---
PCB prototypes for $26 at http://run.to/pcb (http://www.olimex.com/pcb)
PCB any volume assembly (http://www.olimex.com/pcb/protoa.html)
Development boards for ARM, AVR, PIC, MAXQ2000 and MSP430
(http://www.olimex.com/dev)
Reply by Emanuele Ciarrocchi●January 19, 20062006-01-19
On Wed, 18 Jan 2006 23:15:07 GMT, Michael Noone
<mnoone.uiuc.edu@127.0.0.1> wrote:
>
>Hello - I'm looking for a small microcontroller that has an onboard CAN
>controller. If it also had an onboard CAN transciever that would be great -
>but I've yet to see that in any microcontroller so I'm not getting my hopes
>up. The problem I've run into is that I'm working on a very small board
>that needs a CAN interface. Right now I'm planning on using an Atmel
>AT90CAN128 but I'm early enough in the design stage that I could switch to
>something else. The problem with the AT90CAN128 is it's size and availalble
>packages - it comes in a TQFP 64 and a QFN 64. The TQFP is 16mm across
>which means it's almost as wide as the board it is destined to be on. Not
>an ideal situation by any means! The QFN is a much more reasonable 9mm
>across, but the pad on the bottom presents problems in soldering
>prototypes, and, more importantly, makes routing very difficult as traces
>can't be routed beneath the chip on the top layer of the board.
>Unfortunately the QFN is looking like the best option right now as I just
>don't think I can free up enough space for the TQFP.
>
>I have looked at the offerings of Philips, TI, and Microchip - and the best
>I could find was the Microchip PIC18F2480 in a QFN 28 package. But I am not
>particuarly fond of the idea of using a PIC as I understand there are no
>good open source/free C compilers for it, and again that chip suffers from
>a QFN package (though a smaller QFN like this QFN 28 would help with
>layouts). I also have never used a PIC, so there would be the initial
>learning curve to get over.
>
>My question is this: Are there any smaller microcontrollers that have
>onboard CAN controllers? Ideally Atmel would start making an "AT90CAN48"
>(an ATMEGA48 with CAN). To me a chip like this would make such great sense
>for so many applications that I just don't understand why it isn't on the
>market yet as there are no other chips with CAN in that price bracket, to
>the best of my knowledge.
>
>Thanks for your help,
>
>-Mike
Have a look at Fujitsu MB90387, is a LQFP48
Emanuele
Reply by Markus Zingg●January 19, 20062006-01-19
>That's a nice looking chip! Nice package too - like a TQFP but .5mm pitch -
>exactly how it should be. Any idea on the timeframe for that chip?
I'm not related to Renesas, but if you look at the map table it should
be out really soon. (I.e. 1 - 2 months from now I guess).
> If it's
>not out yet it's too late for me - but it looks like one to keep an eye on.
>Also - any idea of pricing and if there will be gcc support for it? Thanks,
The R8Cs are actually "little brothers" of the M16C familly. Both are
16 bit cores but hte R8C with a reduced number of pins and
functionalty to make them smaller and cheaper. The pricing should be
fairly attractive. Just visit their Website and look for a distributor
near you to have a qoute.
With regard to GCC - there is no GCC support, but a quite good
compiler is available from them. Best thing is to probably get an eval
kit (they are dirt cheap) to get an idea. I actually find this chip
familly is very well done. We use the M16C parts for quite a while and
are very satisfied.
Markus
Reply by Michael Noone●January 18, 20062006-01-18
Markus Zingg <m.zingg@nct.ch> wrote in
news:86mts1l33trmf2b0afer589c91grqk6c69@4ax.com:
>>Hello - I'm looking for a small microcontroller that has an onboard
>>CAN controller.
>
> Renesas R8C/23
>
> http://www.renesas.com/media/products/mpumcu/m16c_family/r8ctiny_series
> /r8c22_group/r8c2223_48p6q.pdf
>
> Under developement, but acording to their shedule it should be
> available soon.
>
> HTH
>
> Markus
That's a nice looking chip! Nice package too - like a TQFP but .5mm pitch -
exactly how it should be. Any idea on the timeframe for that chip? If it's
not out yet it's too late for me - but it looks like one to keep an eye on.
Also - any idea of pricing and if there will be gcc support for it? Thanks,
-Mike
Reply by Jim Granville●January 18, 20062006-01-18
Michael Noone wrote:
> Hello - I'm looking for a small microcontroller that has an onboard CAN
> controller. If it also had an onboard CAN transciever that would be great -
> but I've yet to see that in any microcontroller so I'm not getting my hopes
> up. The problem I've run into is that I'm working on a very small board
> that needs a CAN interface. Right now I'm planning on using an Atmel
> AT90CAN128 but I'm early enough in the design stage that I could switch to
> something else. The problem with the AT90CAN128 is it's size and availalble
> packages - it comes in a TQFP 64 and a QFN 64. The TQFP is 16mm across
> which means it's almost as wide as the board it is destined to be on. Not
> an ideal situation by any means! The QFN is a much more reasonable 9mm
> across, but the pad on the bottom presents problems in soldering
> prototypes, and, more importantly, makes routing very difficult as traces
> can't be routed beneath the chip on the top layer of the board.
> Unfortunately the QFN is looking like the best option right now as I just
> don't think I can free up enough space for the TQFP.
>
> I have looked at the offerings of Philips, TI, and Microchip - and the best
> I could find was the Microchip PIC18F2480 in a QFN 28 package. But I am not
> particuarly fond of the idea of using a PIC as I understand there are no
> good open source/free C compilers for it, and again that chip suffers from
> a QFN package (though a smaller QFN like this QFN 28 would help with
> layouts). I also have never used a PIC, so there would be the initial
> learning curve to get over.
>
> My question is this: Are there any smaller microcontrollers that have
> onboard CAN controllers? Ideally Atmel would start making an "AT90CAN48"
> (an ATMEGA48 with CAN). To me a chip like this would make such great sense
> for so many applications that I just don't understand why it isn't on the
> market yet as there are no other chips with CAN in that price bracket, to
> the best of my knowledge.
>
> Thanks for your help,
The Atmel 89C51CC02 comes in small packages, about the same as the PIC.
Or, you could look at a Microchip CAN-SPI and then any small uC of your
choice ?
-jg
Reply by Markus Zingg●January 18, 20062006-01-18
>Hello - I'm looking for a small microcontroller that has an onboard CAN
>controller.
Hello - I'm looking for a small microcontroller that has an onboard CAN
controller. If it also had an onboard CAN transciever that would be great -
but I've yet to see that in any microcontroller so I'm not getting my hopes
up. The problem I've run into is that I'm working on a very small board
that needs a CAN interface. Right now I'm planning on using an Atmel
AT90CAN128 but I'm early enough in the design stage that I could switch to
something else. The problem with the AT90CAN128 is it's size and availalble
packages - it comes in a TQFP 64 and a QFN 64. The TQFP is 16mm across
which means it's almost as wide as the board it is destined to be on. Not
an ideal situation by any means! The QFN is a much more reasonable 9mm
across, but the pad on the bottom presents problems in soldering
prototypes, and, more importantly, makes routing very difficult as traces
can't be routed beneath the chip on the top layer of the board.
Unfortunately the QFN is looking like the best option right now as I just
don't think I can free up enough space for the TQFP.
I have looked at the offerings of Philips, TI, and Microchip - and the best
I could find was the Microchip PIC18F2480 in a QFN 28 package. But I am not
particuarly fond of the idea of using a PIC as I understand there are no
good open source/free C compilers for it, and again that chip suffers from
a QFN package (though a smaller QFN like this QFN 28 would help with
layouts). I also have never used a PIC, so there would be the initial
learning curve to get over.
My question is this: Are there any smaller microcontrollers that have
onboard CAN controllers? Ideally Atmel would start making an "AT90CAN48"
(an ATMEGA48 with CAN). To me a chip like this would make such great sense
for so many applications that I just don't understand why it isn't on the
market yet as there are no other chips with CAN in that price bracket, to
the best of my knowledge.
Thanks for your help,
-Mike